I had the same thought. But as stated in the answer below your thread, I also think that screwing the post too tight might cause the clearcoat damage in this direction, possibly depending a bit on the direction the metal drill hole in the playfield has. The problem again is the hard screwing, which is necessary to fix the slingshot posts against the rubber pressure.

Put... um.... put an even BIGGER post there!

Because of EPA regulations concerning VOC emissions Manufacturers were "Encouraged" to work with less volatile materials, hence water based coatings.
If they continued with the older, harder more durable clear coats it would involve a higher priced Permit, result in a Hazardous Waste (Flammables, Reactives) waste streams and more frequent inspections of facilities by the EPA.
Water-based coatings have come a long way but are not yet as DURABLE as the older finishes.
Face it, Nitro lacquer, Isocyanates, xylene solvents are on their way out, so we must learn to live with the "Greener" alternatives.

still ..... has to be a better way
Spooky, CGI and AP seem to have figured it out - maybe not perfect, but better than what JJP and Stern are putting out

Finally the unmatched quality of JJP is back!

If it’s an issue of pressure on the coating surface maybe make the post slightly sub flush so the post isn’t touching artwork just bare wood?

The solution to the problem is not removing art or trying to build a pinball machine that nothing touches the playfield. There is some chemical issue here with adhesion that they need to sort out. They tried to avoid the issue and half ass a brain dead solution. Why are people following them down this path of stupidity.

Wow So we heard at Virtual Pinball Expo that Micro is now creating more durable playfields that they call "Spectrum Playfields" or something. One would think that the GNR's going out now have playfields created using the updated process. As far we know the GNR playfields going into early games could have been made weeks or even months ago and don't contain the Spectrum Micro playfields. JJP and Micro did seem to fix the pooling / chipping issue around a year ago so its odd to see it popping up again. Hopefully this is just a one off and not a pattern.

It's issue like these why I'm done being an early adopter for a pinball machine from any company. The headaches are not worth having one of the first games considering the price of these things. My new rule is wait 6 months then buy.

There’s got to be multiple things going on here as Stern Elvira HoH doesn’t have this issue and the clear coat layer is actually thinner because you can see and feel the artwork lines. Elvira’s process is more or less like the 90s Williams DMD era a lot of similarities to those games like Indiana Jones the shadow etc.

We’ve been having these issues for the past two years that you would seem to think that the manufactures would get this shit taken care of and figured out. Either it’s an adhesion ink to the wood process issue or it’s the clearcoat mix too thin or too thick. They just can’t seem to get this figured out and it’s costing them money and warranty issues and frustrations on the customer end.

It makes sense to me. The post wants to rotate inward, which applies the most pressure to the clear coat on the inside edge of the post, and the art/clear under the post gets pushed outwards where the resistance is less.

Think of it like this: if you put a piece of glass on water and press down on one side, which way would the water flow?

pool (resized).png

All this talk of the post being too tight, blah blah is just noise. The issue is that the clearcoat hasn't setup properly. It's still semi-viscous and "flows" based on pressure.

It happens on both sides.

IMG_20190905_191950 (resized).jpg

It's not a clearcoat issue. It's the ink not adhering to the wood when force is applied. The clear isn't pooling, it's just lifting up as air gets underneath.

d1d68667fd2d60291074898ae73ba38a (resized).jpg

No thanks

Ah, gotcha. That last pic shows it more clearly.

They look different to me. One looks more like the clear pooling and taking the art with it, and this seems like the art chipping and taking clear with it.

But Idk. I'm just a bored guy on the internet.

Sprayed one coat of Cromax 2 part auto clear on this Motordome playfield on Saturday, and its passing the hammer test on Tuesday already. You be the judge.

20201020_154012 (resized).jpg

20201020_154236 (resized).jpg

Nice playfield, wrong hammer.

f-73807-Bumperhammer-213_Sharp-Sat (resized).jpg

Someone in one of the g@r threads posted a playfield date of dec 19 2019 I believe . So not sure if the new process was used on the first 100 or so playfields? If any other owners can chime in on some dates and if there are issues that be nice.

No it's both and mainly the clear that is the issue. The clear should be hard enough that it doesn't pool or stretch. Adhesion of the art is part of it, but a small part that just makes the situation worse.

In the expo demo, I thought Mirco said his new formula has been in use for a year already. Could have been speaking loosely though and that date is close to that time frame.

Let's keep an eye on newer dated fields...

This is exactly what it looks like to me....I don't see any pooling, but the clear coat not adhering to the ink

Jeebus cripes. Look, I don't have an engineering degree but I'm over flowing with common sense which tends to be more useful than an engineering degree.
They can't get this fixed apparently so use the same setup as Stern did all those many years ago. Seriously this is just ludicrous they aren't smart enough to realize they already have a better band aid. Counter sunk t-nut and skinny post.
https://www.ipdb.org/images/4858/image-2.jpg

It is insane. It's like they had a solution all along. LOL

Yeah its because there was no room under the playfield, but it is a good idea here even though it is a little ugly. But still would work.

Yeah, it's not exactly elegant, but probably better than the current situation.

Oh, and add LED's to the posts so the band aid looks like an intentional design upgrade lol

Is anyone else having bubbling and chipping other than @antron77?

Just curious that we only have one playfield so far with an issue with all the games that are shipping and out there? Need more info...

EDIT: Any other issues specifically with GNR playfields? Not downplaying anything just interested in the data!

Yes, my Willy Wonka LE produced 08/2020.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/continued-playfield-issues-with-jjp-and-stern/page/133#post-5912715

Coating adhesive is pretty simple (but Manufacturers want to make it complicated, so you will purchase their Proprietary Coatings).

Does the substrate ( bare wood, previously coated wood, etc) have an etched, uneven or pitted surface when viewed under magnification?
Are the etched, uneven or pitted surfaces free from contaminants?
Good, the coating can bond to it.
Uncompatible inks, paint or waxes, including silicones are unacceptable. Aerosol silicone contamination from adjacent work areas won't work.
Glazes, preservatives or polishing bare wood substrates during Manufacturing must be corrected.
Temperature swings in the Manufacturing Environment (Open dock doors, too much air conditioning) can be critical.
The stuff they are using (if its what I think it is) requires STRICT Preparation, Application in a Climate Controlled Room.
The same rigid requirements must be met to cure properly.
Use of these clear coatings has been a learning curve the past 10 years, not only Pinball but anything with a Clear over it.
Unfortunately application on a Play Field is perhaps the most demanding application requiring durability and high wear.

I wonder when the playfield was manufactured.

Surprised they did not go back to counter sunk posts like they used to do. This eliminates all those issues.

Is there any CGC/CCC games that have pooling?

Based on what I found under the apron, it has a date code of 08/01/2019. I'm guessing that the date is formatted as DD/MM/YY which is more common in Europe not MM/DD/YY as is more common in the U.S.

IMG_1673 (resized).jpg

So does this mean mirco's repro playfields are basically garbage? I was debating on buying a repro playfield from them, but this scares me away.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mirco-playfields-warning-for-potential-buyers

So in theory this playfield sat for almost an extra year of curing...

How is this even possible when games from 2014 and under had NO playfield issues?

I could be totally wrong here, but I thought I read somewhere that tighter regulations got put on clear coat chemicals forcing company’s to change their formulas and process.

Duh!

Or.........................

This community could stop buying one game after another and stop acting totally and completely shocked when.......OMG............. it's still happening like it has on TMNT, AIQ, Iron Maiden, JP2, POTCJJP, GNR....I mean...how many kicks in the nuts do you need?

This will not do much. People need to stop playing the games then people will stop buying the games. I do not know about you but I want to keep playing the games and want to keep buying the games. I am not going to let a few chips and a bit of pooling stop me from enjoying some of the best games ever made. Lucky this hobby is all about you and what you like.

Would be really interesting to know when the defective GNR playfield was made.

Back on 2014 they were all Silk Screening the art as CGC does to date without issues..... now all use the faster/cheaper/ and clearly not working digital printing process. Painting 101, if the base coat (paint) can’t support the final coat it will always fail!

Yes... this was why I asked if any CGC games have this "pooling" issue.. it seems to be with the digital printing.

Well, they definitely seem to have some chipping issues. As was posted somewhere earlier in the thread.

Thank you sir, may I have another?

Animal House would be an automatic buy for me.

They did have issues but no where near to the extent we see these days, you might have had a small bump from a screw underneath the playfield, bad printing looking at you LOTR, Star Trek,

There was actually occasional pooling around posts but it was nothing more than a post being tightened too much and pulling the post into the clear a little, the clear wouldn’t lift or chip.