New! Dark mode!

Browsing Pinside at night? Getting tired of all the white? Switch to dark mode using the button in the top right (or CTRL-B)!

(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 6,695 posts - Hot topic!
  • 580 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 hours ago by Zora
  • Topic is favorited by 155 Pinsiders

You

Topic Gallery

There have been 727 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

IMG_3242 (resized).JPG
IMG_3232 (resized).JPG
IMG_3234 (resized).JPG
chip.png
7906B286-C65F-47A7-A726-95D0E4A1A393 (resized).jpeg
0D6A713E-1ED1-475E-945C-D7FAEDE57394 (resized).jpeg
08B6EDC8-B18D-476B-9295-83EE174B13A8 (resized).jpeg
20201019_144026 (resized).jpg
20201019_144043 (resized).jpg
20201019_144352 (resized).jpg
Apron trim(1) (resized).jpg
4ivrk8 (resized).jpg
_DSC1657 (Large) (resized).JPG
_DSC1656 (Large) (resized).JPG
_DSC1654 (Large) (resized).JPG
_DSC1652 (Large) (resized).JPG

There are 6695 posts in this topic. You are on page 133 of 134.
#6601 5 days ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

Been two months no word from Stern on my JP Premium

This is what’s about to happen on my JP premium.

Wait let me get this straight you want to be made whole for something that might happen

#6602 5 days ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Contact the manufacturer and accept nothing less than your money back or a populated playfield.

It really shouldn't happen on such a low play game and the rest of the playfield is perfect. I've tried to call the manufacturer in the past, but couldn't even get thru to order a BK2K T-shirt.

21
#6603 4 days ago

I'm probably going to get down voted for this, but this thread was started a year ago. If you knew about these issues before you bought a game, then I'm sorry to say, but you knew what you were getting into so you should accept it. No bitching, no complaining, no replacements.

I'm constantly shocked at people that post pictures of their brand new games and then whine about them being screwed up. I purchased mine before this shit show started and I'm still waiting for a play field from Stern. If you didn't know, then my apologies, but I'd bet $100 most of the people in the last 6 months knew about these issues.

I want a JP Premium more than you can imagine. I worked my ass off all of last year making the IFPA top 1,000 so I could get the discount and haven't used it. I won't use it until they fix my Catwoman and get their act together.

#6604 4 days ago

We definitely need a come to jesus moment from these manufacturers where they acknowledge that there is/was an issue and how they have overcome it.
Manufacturers ignoring it and hoping it will go away is bad for the hobby.

12
#6605 4 days ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I'm probably going to get down voted for this, but this thread was started a year ago. If you knew about these issues before you bought a game, then I'm sorry to say, but you knew what you were getting into so you should accept it. No bitching, no complaining, no replacements.

This seems a bit over the top to me. If you buy a brand new car, you know there MIGHT be issues with it, you don't just forfeit any right to have your issues addressed. The same should be true with brand new pinball machines. So while I agree that people shouldn't be shocked when issues exist, I think they have a right to expect some type of recourse when there is a major issue with their machine.

12
#6606 4 days ago
Quoted from shaub:

This seems a bit over the top to me. If you buy a brand new car, you know there MIGHT be issues with it, you don't just forfeit any right to have your issues addressed. The same should be true with brand new pinball machines. So while I agree that people shouldn't be shocked when issues exist, I think they have a right to expect some type of recourse when there is a major issue with their machine.

The issue is Stern has set a standard that they really don't care. They sent some of the worst cases an unpopulated playfield, which is not a solution. At this point they will probably send you a coupon for $50 off your next NIB and people will be happy with it. It's hard to muster up any sympathy at this point. People are gambling and some of them are losing.

#6607 4 days ago

I thought all issues were fix. And now I see your Avengers playfield has turned to shit. Did you call Stern?

#6608 4 days ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

using multiple vendors reduces the probability though. If Stern aren't managing their vendors right, only having one increases the risk as much as having two. I'd prefer if they had 2/3 suppliers, that way if the supply doesn't meet the grade they can switch over to an alternative without stopping the plant.
I can't help but think that a company might be inclined to use what they have perhaps knowing it wasn't perfect to keep the expensive to run factory moving...
Since the pooling issues I've been fortunate that the change stern made to flatten the clear seems to be working so far. I've bought 5 stern titles in the last year and none of them have had a playfield problem (touches wood).

Where did you find wood to touch, a machines from the 80's?

#6609 4 days ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I'm probably going to get down voted for this, but this thread was started a year ago. If you knew about these issues before you bought a game, then I'm sorry to say, but you knew what you were getting into so you should accept it. No bitching, no complaining, no replacements.
I'm constantly shocked at people that post pictures of their brand new games and then whine about them being screwed up. I purchased mine before this shit show started and I'm still waiting for a play field from Stern. If you didn't know, then my apologies, but I'd bet $100 most of the people in the last 6 months knew about these issues.
I want a JP Premium more than you can imagine. I worked my ass off all of last year making the IFPA top 1,000 so I could get the discount and haven't used it. I won't use it until they fix my Catwoman and get their act together.

Well I get where you are coming from, but what's the point of suffering in silence hoping for change? Seems like a passive-aggressive stance to me. The point of this thread, after all, is to document "continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern", and that's what we're doing. It's a public service.

Q: "Is is safe to buy an NIB Stern now?" A: "No."

...and hey, I paid my $, I'll bloody bitch if I want to.

#6610 4 days ago
Quoted from jellikit:

Where did you find wood to touch, a machines from the 80's?

That's not my playfield. I don't have an Avengers or TMNT for that matter.

#6611 4 days ago
Quoted from jellikit:

Where did you find wood to touch, a machines from the 80's?

More like those stuck in the 80s touching each others wood.

#6612 4 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

More like those stuck in the 80s touching each others wood.

You seem to be in an anti-nostalgia k-hole tonight. You get stuck watching a too close for
Comfort marathon or something?

#6613 4 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

You seem to be in an anti-nostalgia k-hole tonight. You get stuck watching a too close for
Comfort marathon or something?

Too Close For Comfort is on?

#6614 4 days ago

And yet with almost 6700k posts in this thread, people will still buy them and then complain about them after knowing all of Sterns shitty business practices and low grade quality of their machines.
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
Just by reading this thread, I will never buy one. Hope everyone's issues are addressed and are made whole, but I doubt it.

#6615 4 days ago
Quoted from gjm:

And yet with almost 6700k posts in this thread, people will still buy them and then complain about them after knowing all of Sterns shitty business practices and low grade quality of their machines.
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
Just by reading this thread, I will never buy one. Hope everyone's issues are addressed and are made whole, but I doubt it.

Because of the 6700 posts, a very small fraction of them are actual owners with issues!
Yes, there are some but considering the number of games being produced and the past experience I’ve had with both my supplier and Stern, I’ll take the chance. I figure worst case, you sell your game at a loss when you’re done enjoying it to someone else? We all lose on resale so taking a small risk that it’s another $500?
Especially when it appears as though there have been minimal issues with the last couple/few titles from what I’ve seen.
Not to mention, if I see pooling, I’m buying one of those irons for $40 on Amazon.

#6616 4 days ago

Has anyone successfully pulled a rail up that was digging into art without chipping the art, in order to fix it?

#6617 4 days ago

I think of this thread as more of a support group. We know issues are going to happen but it’s nice to have a place to unload your frustrations and maybe get a little help along the way.

#6618 4 days ago
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

Has anyone successfully pulled a rail up that was digging into art without chipping the art, in order to fix it?

I've recently done it using Yelobird's vinyl repair iron method to flatten the damaged area out. You'll still have a depression where the rail originally sat, but when you reinstall the rail, it should cover that. I'm going to experiment with putting some small fiber washers under the offending attachment points tonight to see if I can elevate the rail slightly to keep it from digging into the art/clear again. I might have to elevate the entire rail.. I don't know, as I'm in the middle of the project.

#6619 4 days ago

Personally, I have had twice as many newer games WITH problems as without problems. I may just be one unlucky SOB, but unfortuntely I think this is just the new normal. We the consumers have lost, and have to either accept these issues or give up on owning new games going forward. There's just not enough people that care enough to put their wallets away.

#6620 4 days ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

Personally, I have had more twice as many newer games WITH problems as without problems. I may just be one unlucky SOB, but unfortuntely I think this is just the new normal. We the consumers have lost, and have to either accept these issues or give up on owning new games going forward. There's just not enough people that care enough to put their wallets away.

Yeah, I'm 3/4 on premature chipping with NIB Sterns since 2016, and the other one has the kinda fugly vertical lines in the clear-coat.

At this point if I see a game *without* these common issues it's like finding a unicorn.

Stern is making Cliffy a rich man.

#6621 3 days ago

They just showed Mirco doing a hammer test (hammer flat and hammer point) on the PinballExpo20 video feed.
Very impressive. If someone has that video they should post it here. I think Mirco/JJP may have this problem licked.

#6622 3 days ago

Bad news regarding playfield finish. My Willy Wonka LE has a August 2020 production date. I've submitted a support request and am waiting to hear back from JJP at this time.

_DSC1647 (Large) (resized).JPG_DSC1650 (Large) (resized).JPG_DSC1651 (Large) (resized).JPG_DSC1652 (Large) (resized).JPG_DSC1654 (Large) (resized).JPG_DSC1656 (Large) (resized).JPG_DSC1657 (Large) (resized).JPG
13
#6623 3 days ago
Quoted from RellikJM:

My Willy Wonka LE has a August 2020 production date. I've submitted a support request and am waiting to hear back from JJP at this time.

They didn't use gobstopper material on yours? That shit's supposed to be everlasting.

#6624 3 days ago
Quoted from RellikJM:

Bad news regarding playfield finish. My Willy Wonka LE has a August 2020 production date. I've submitted a support request and am waiting to hear back from JJP at this time.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

My CE is similar. February 2020 build. I posted picks up on the other Wonka thread but am currently locked out from replying there cause it's a hot topic? or some stuff. Putting the playfield together without proper (clear) cure time. It's as simple as that. I'm interested to see how JJP responds to your ticket. Please keep us posted.
r/

#6625 3 days ago
Quoted from shaub:

This seems a bit over the top to me. If you buy a brand new car, you know there MIGHT be issues with it, you don't just forfeit any right to have your issues addressed. The same should be true with brand new pinball machines. So while I agree that people shouldn't be shocked when issues exist, I think they have a right to expect some type of recourse when there is a major issue with their machine.

A more accurate analogy would be buying a car, having issues with it and with the company addressing those issues, selling it, then keeping an ear to the ground and hearing about other owners buying newer versions of the car that still have the same issues and the same difficulties getting them resolved, and after all of that still buying the next car they churn out - because you really like the look of it - on the sheer hope that you won’t suffer the same problems again.

Stern know that people will keep buying their pins in spite of these issues, even if those same people have already experienced the issues themselves! People hear about a new theme coming out and immediately forget this thread and even their own experiences in some cases. FOTM is real.

Stern will never change until people stop putting up with it, and as long as people think it’s a thing that happens to other people, or “I’ll be lucky this time”, then people won’t stop putting up with it.

#6626 3 days ago
Quoted from RellikJM:

Bad news regarding playfield finish. My Willy Wonka LE has a August 2020 production date. I've submitted a support request and am waiting to hear back from JJP at this time.

that doesn't bode well for GNR

#6627 3 days ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

that doesn't bode well for GNR

Exactly.

12
#6628 3 days ago
Quoted from RellikJM:

Bad news regarding playfield finish. My Willy Wonka LE has a August 2020 production date. I've submitted a support request and am waiting to hear back from JJP at this time.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I cannot fathom for the life of me why this problem is so f*cking hard to solve. Seems like the playfield production process just isn't setup for mass production, controlled variables, identical results at scale. These companies need to bit the bullet and invest in the equipment and processes that will let them pump out high quality playfields in mass quantities, but I guess they'd rather not...

-11
#6629 3 days ago
Quoted from RellikJM:

Bad news regarding playfield finish. My Willy Wonka LE has a August 2020 production date. I've submitted a support request and am waiting to hear back from JJP at this time.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Dude if you go that far out of your way to look for issues pinball is not for you.

#6630 2 days ago
Quoted from fnosm:

They just showed Mirco doing a hammer test (hammer flat and hammer point) on the PinballExpo20 video feed.
Very impressive. If someone has that video they should post it here. I think Mirco/JJP may have this problem licked.

https://www.twitch.tv/pinballexpo/video/772313718?t=22m05s

#6631 2 days ago
Quoted from JY64:

Dude if you go that far out of your way to look for issues pinball is not for you.

It will surprise you that I totally agree with you. I've got a Star Trip that's in much worse shape and I play it. Maybe someday I'll touch it up and clear it but for now it's fine. These machines are designed for commercial route/arcade operation and these defects won't affect the money that a machine in an arcade/on a route makes.

I knew about the possible playfield issue before I purchased the machine and wanted to let others know that the issue still exists if it's a show stopper for them, it's not a show stopper for me. I also plan to purchase a Mirco repro Safe Cracker playfield to replace the oem one that has missing insert information on the red inserts from my failed mylar install/removal attempt and raised inserts on the lower playfield. If the clearcoat/art defects bothered me I wouldn't be buying another playfield from the same manufacturer that produced this playfield.

I've reached out to JJP to see what possible solutions exist and I'm perfectly happy to leave the playfield exactly as it is now. If customers don't contact the manufacturer, the manufacturers won't know that the issue exists. I like playing the game and I think that most of these defects won't be an issue because the rubber on the post will hold the ball away from the defect and the art/clear won't flake off.

#6632 2 days ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

They needed to cut the art back around guides just like they did posts. Are you listening Stern???

Just think, soon they'll just get rid of the art altogether and you can take some colored sharpies and make your own art!!!!!!

TRUE LE right there!!! No one will have the same artwork as you!!! Special snowflake machines for EVERYBODY!!!!

*checks my 30 year old games* Art looks great still!

#6633 2 days ago
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

Has anyone successfully pulled a rail up that was digging into art without chipping the art, in order to fix it?

I have this on my strangers things LE on the apron. I’ve taken the apron off no less than 100 times and the situation has never gotten worse.

#6634 2 days ago
Quoted from RellikJM:

It will surprise you that I totally agree with you. I've got a Star Trip that's in much worse shape and I play it. Maybe someday I'll touch it up and clear it but for now it's fine. These machines are designed for commercial route/arcade operation and these defects won't affect the money that a machine in an arcade/on a route makes.

Pros maybe, but Premiums and LEs are clearly aimed at home users nowadays (and have been for some time).

In this post-COVID world arguably Stern’s primary market is going to be home users.

#6635 2 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I have this on my strangers things LE on the apron. I’ve taken the apron off no less than 100 times and the situation has never gotten worse.

100 times?!? Why on earth?

17
#6636 2 days ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

that doesn't bode well for GNR

4ivrk8 (resized).jpg

#6637 2 days ago

Not trolling. Why is that knot or blemish in the shooter lane a problem, or is it just aesthetic? Is it smooth?

#6638 2 days ago

What time is Mirco Playfield “test”
I couldn’t find it Skipping through.

#6639 2 days ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

What time is Mirco Playfield “test”
I couldn’t find it Skipping through.

https://www.twitch.tv/pinballexpo/video/772313718?t=22m05s

Skip to 22m if the link doesn’t take you there.

#6641 2 days ago

I would like to see someone take a hammer to a stern playfield. I bet it would bust it to pieces. When Stern gets playfields like this i will start buying their games again. Until then though i will be holding onto my money.

#6642 2 days ago

Now that Mirco claims they have fixed their poor quality process, I’m sure they’ll happily replace all of their bad playfields under warranty...

#6643 2 days ago
Quoted from Gorgonzola:

Now that Mirco claims they have fixed their poor quality process, I’m sure they’ll happily replace all of their bad playfields under warranty...

I get the feeling they stole their hammerproof playfieilds from deeproot.

#6644 2 days ago
Quoted from fnosm:

They just showed Mirco doing a hammer test (hammer flat and hammer point) on the PinballExpo20 video feed.
Very impressive. If someone has that video they should post it here. I think Mirco/JJP may have this problem licked.

a handy test! because all my games have hammers banging the playfield multi ball!

I want to see a test rig that has thousands of pinballs being fired at a populated playfield constantly for days/weeks on end.

#6645 2 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Not trolling. Why is that knot or blemish in the shooter lane a problem, or is it just aesthetic? Is it smooth?

I'd say aesthetics and playfield integrity. When sorting playfields for Limited Edition assembly; I'd save that one for a lesser valued machine. When resources are low, I can imagine sorting defected materials to find a solution.

That playfield should be fine and it has character too. A knot can be frozen, filled and smoothed before clear, but we know that layer of Baltic has a number of large, hidden knots that are not addressed depending on the diameter of the tree. It'd be interesting if an ultrasound certification was provided, but that's overkill.

#6646 2 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

100 times?!? Why on earth?

Probably because the projector needs constant attention?? Guessing...

#6647 2 days ago
Quoted from fnosm:

They just showed Mirco doing a hammer test (hammer flat and hammer point) on the PinballExpo20 video feed.
Very impressive. If someone has that video they should post it here. I think Mirco/JJP may have this problem licked.

It is encouraging that at least two pinball playfield manufacturers are at least looking at the problem seriously (well 1 current, one prospective). There is hope that glassy beautiful robust playfields might be a common/expected thing again sometime in the foreseeable future.

Only once competitors are able to routinely produce these amazing playfields will Stern bother to take notice, if then. Here's to hoping.

#6648 1 day ago

Impressive....nice to see someone is actually proactive in trying to fix these play field issues.

#6649 1 day ago
Quoted from Fytr:

Probably because the projector needs constant attention?? Guessing...

I had to replace the projector twice and the focus is very hard to get perfect.

#6650 1 day ago
Quoted from RockfordReplay:

It'd be interesting if an ultrasound certification was provided, but that's overkill.

I will accept nothing less than an MRI for my playfield

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 17.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
$ 27.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
$ 79.99
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
PinGraffix Pinside Shop
There are 6695 posts in this topic. You are on page 133 of 134.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside