(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

3 months ago



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There are 3272 posts in this topic. You are on page 13 of 66.
12
#601 3 months ago

New feature matrix:
Auto-customizing Playfield - pooling, rippling and chipping of varying degrees over an unspecified period of time sure to delight and amaze you as changes create that one-of-kind patina unique to your game. Results may vary. No extra charge.

#602 3 months ago
Quoted from Talon2000:

Well add my IMDN LE to the list.. I just checked, every post has bubbles or blisters, and Munsters Premium which is 5 months old.

Funny, I just saw a Ted Nugent that still looks great!

#603 3 months ago

The quality of Spooky playfields, the rest of the industry should try to attain. Or obtain as the case may be.

#604 3 months ago

Seems crazy to me that I can’t seem to get a Stern with a PF that has the quality of Lord of the Rings. And a JJP with a PF that has the quality of the Hobbit which I think was their best PF attempt overall. Think about that for a minute. Going backwards on purpose. Why would they do this. I’m guessing to save money. For those who say it is not the manufacturers fault because you can’t make a good PF today due to regulations well Spooky just proved that theory wrong. Those with machines on route and tournament players will let the pin companies off the hook for poor build quality. I hope these pin companies have the numbers with those two groups to make their business model work because they are going to lose a lot of collectors if this is the new level of quality in pinball. They are way behind the quality they had just 7-10 years ago. Something is very wrong when that happens.

#605 3 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Funny, I just saw a Ted Nugent that still looks great!

Even my Nugent beat as it is, is still in good shape.

#606 3 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

He already stated he did in another thread. Dozens of them.

What thread? Would love to read that.

"Dozens of them" surely doesn't cover all the affected playfields... some of us (including myself) with TNA who have rippling in the playfield artwork (mine was that way brand new out of the box) were only offered a washer-based solution and were told to wait it out. Our machines are certainly playable, but we weren't made whole.

#607 3 months ago

What thread? "Dozens of them" surely doesn't cover all the affected playfields... some of us (including myself) with TNA who have rippling in the playfield artwork (mine was this way brand new out of the box) were only offered a washer-based solution and were told to wait it out. Our machines are certainly playable, but we weren't made whole.

#608 3 months ago

A friend of mine has this issue on his Catwoman. Any others have this on B66?

#609 3 months ago

Do any CGC pinballs have these issues?

#610 3 months ago
Quoted from Vakarian:

New feature matrix:
Auto-customizing Playfield - pooling, rippling and chipping of varying degrees over an unspecified period of time sure to delight and amaze you as changes create that one-of-kind patina unique to your game. Results may vary. No extra charge.

JJP would find a way to monetize it.

#611 3 months ago
Quoted from pninja005:

Do any CGC pinballs have these issues?

My MBrLE is fine but I’m watching this carefully. I would like to add a JP but I’m holding off until I see Stern making this right.

#612 3 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I agree with this and it's something I've done also. My take was "hey, I saw this problem, not worried about it for now but wanted to get it on record in case it worsens later."

Just hope it doesn't worsen "out of the warranty period"

Quoted from tbutler6:

Heard it from a second legitimate source:
Stern shut the line down to work on sub assemblies only until they solve any playfield issue.

Awesome if true and exactly what you expect to be done. Kudos to Stern.

Quoted from pninja005:

Do any CGC pinballs have these issues?

I can't even seen any obvious dimpling on my ARFr - PF looks great

#613 3 months ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

Going backwards on purpose.

I think you're way of base thinking it's on purpose. Can you tell me how you decided that?

#614 3 months ago
Quoted from pninja005:

Do any CGC pinballs have these issues?

My MBr SE has been perfect since day one out of the box. In my opinion, CGC is the Honda and Toyota of the pin makers. Their pins may not appeal to everyone at the moment. But you see no threads recently of quality issues that JJP and Stern have.

JJP is the exotic maker with low volume and some quality issues. High end buyers will put up with their quality issues.

Stern is your mass producer pushing out one game after the next to keep the customers flocking to the next must have pin. Quality suffers some time with a model, but buyers soon forget because they desire the next popular pin.

CGC is your lower volume, build a safe bet machine theme that has little to no issues.

Spooky and the other lower volume manufacturers are just working at getting their feet in the door and if they want to survive, will continue to work on their quality issues while providing unique or original themes. I hope they keep up the pressure on the to big to fail companies that everyone continues to support.

And DP, well that is everything that is wrong with the industry. Great ideas, horrible execution.

Want to help the manufacturers fix their quality issues. Stop buying their products for a while and they will either fix the issues or go by the way side. Losing a manufacturer is not always a bad thing. Maybe another company will come along and buy them out and fix the issues they had. Or maybe it opens the door to the lower volume guys to fill and show everyone that they have better ideas and provide a quality product.

You gotta get over a business failing. It usually leads to a higher quality company coming along with a younger generation of talent.

#615 3 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

I think you're way of base thinking it's on purpose. Can you tell me how you decided that?

I guess because it’s obvious that cost cutting for more profit has been going on for some time now. Especially for Stern. The manufacturers know what things are inferior to what they once were. So you have good clear on Hobbit and you change something? Smells like more cost cutting. So yes I feel the drop in quality including PFs is on purpose. They think. How far can we push the envelope on cost cutting to increase profit. Well guess what. That ballon just popped. People aren’t even asking for better quality really. That are asking for the build quality they had 10 years ago. We all know we could have at least that if the manufacturers wanted to put quality over highest profit margin. They must think people are dumb. It’s time for the chickens to come home to roost. These manufacturers have been pushing their luck for years.

#616 3 months ago

Tough tough situation for all involved. My suggestion is and this is not an end all be all solution, the manufacturers should accept documentation of any pooling or bubbling on the pf, with pictures and descriptions. The owner should receive a written confirmation that the documentation was received and put on file. If the pooling does not chip in a period of time, perhaps 2 years (?) then things remain as it is. If the pooling results in chipping then the manufacturer should offer a fully populated PF. The pooling is concerning but if it remains as it is around posts or elsewhere, it’s not that bad cosmetically and certainly no game changing of the flight of the ball. Hey, it’s one idea of I guess dozens.

#617 3 months ago

Thankful for this thread, went and checked my BKLE and sure enough, two posts with pooling.

This wasn’t there day one. I changed out the bands and bulbs, clearing out whatever little dust was in there. I would have remembered seeing it.

I reported it to my distributor and they said that there was no answer to what the resolution would be yet for owners with this.

#618 3 months ago
Quoted from pninja005:

Do any CGC pinballs have these issues?

My MBRLE has dimpled quite a bit, but there are quite a few airball opportunities that help to explain that, (and honestly it doesn't really bother me and doesn't seem excessive).

As best I can tell, none of these other playfield issues. Hell, the only thing I have had to do to it is adjust a switch and ask for a tilt bob lock that was missing. Absolutely great experience all and all.

CGC is good in my book.

#619 3 months ago
Quoted from Vyzer2:

Tough tough situation for all involved. My suggestion is and this is not an end all be all solution, the manufacturers should accept documentation of any pooling or bubbling on the pf, with pictures and descriptions. The owner should receive a written confirmation that the documentation was received and put on file. If the pooling does not chip in a period of time, perhaps 2 years (?) then things remain as it is. If the pooling results in chipping then the manufacturer should offer a fully populated PF. The pooling is concerning but if it remains as it is around posts or elsewhere, it’s not that bad cosmetically and certainly no game changing of the flight of the ball. Hey, it’s one idea of I guess dozens.

I like your idea seeing as my playfield chipped in under 3 weeks I think I'd qualify lol

#620 3 months ago

wrinkling... not pooling... the topcoat isn't flowing downhill to your posts people :p

#621 3 months ago

On a separate note, I've always thought "unboxing" videos on YouTube to be kind of Geeky... and I watch them! But now, things like these pooling/chipping problems take those videos to another level, of pseudo importance.

It's like back in the day.... watching your buddy open a pack of baseball cards to see if he gets a Mantle rookie.... "will he get pooling.... or no pooling"?? Take a deep breath.
Wow! He got no pooling! That pin has just increased in value by 20% over cost!

Ridiculous, I know.

#622 3 months ago
Quoted from MurphyPeoples:

On a separate note, I've always thought "unboxing" videos on YouTube to be kind of Geeky... and I watch them! But now, things like these pooling/chipping problems take those videos to another level, of pseudo importance.

haha they are actually worth it now.

#623 3 months ago

If they don't end up offering PF replacements, I think we should crowdfund to have someone throw their Stern or Wonka off a roof.

#624 3 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

wrinkling... not pooling... the topcoat isn't flowing downhill to your posts people :p

I think the right term is "blistering". Sounds nasty. That's because it is.

#625 3 months ago
Quoted from pninja005:

A friend of mine has this issue on his Catwoman. Any others have this on B66?

I do on my Catwoman. I lost a chunk from one of the posts and there is another ready to let loose. My distributor is working on it, but asked me to be patient. I'm happy to wait for them to figure out what they want to do or how it is to be resolved.

The last thing I want is another play field with the same issue.

I'll just play the hell out of it until I hear back from them.

#626 3 months ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

I think the right term is "blistering". Sounds nasty. That's because it is.

if it were caused by something expanding underneth... or filled with something.. I'd agree its better. But the failure is being instigated by pressure/movement on the top coat causing stretch, displacement and eventual tearing/chipping.

We can induce the same kinds of failures on the cabinet decals when you tug on it with bolts or over compress. That's the similarity I see..

#627 3 months ago

Stretch marks then. Just like women get after having kids.

Blistering or Stretch marks sound like better descriptors than pooling

#628 3 months ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

Blistering or Stretch marks sound like better descriptors than pooling

Yes. Because "pooling" can refer to something like "pooling all their resources" which doesn't sound like the case here.

#629 3 months ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

I think the right term is "blistering". Sounds nasty. That's because it is.

I just call it DEFECTIVE

10
#630 3 months ago
Quoted from Talon2000:

Well add my IMDN LE to the list.. I just checked, every post has bubbles or blisters, and Munsters Premium which is 5 months old.

Same here.

I've actually reached out to Stern multiple times regarding this and have yet to receive a single response. I guess this explains the whole "this is not a widespread issue" quote, as the issue in question simply gets ignored. Have not even received a simple reply that they received my pictures and are looking into it. Beyond frustrating.

Hey Stern, I love your games to death... but if this is considered an acceptable response (a total lack of) for somebody that shells out 9k for one of your titles I'm done supporting you and buying NIB games.

ps: great job on Spiderman, it looks brand new next to my year old Iron Maiden!

-1
#631 3 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

I think you're way of base thinking it's on purpose. Can you tell me how you decided that?

Quoted from Extraballz:

I guess because it’s obvious that cost cutting for more profit has been going on for some time now. Especially for Stern.

Thank you for your response. I disagree on several points. Cost cutting and more profit are not things that happen once in a while. They are an everyday part of doing business. They are neither bad or unusual, all successful companies do both of them routinely.

I think what you mean is this quality issue can be directly attributed to a specific decision to lower quality to save money. I don't think anyone has a good reason to believe that. If you have evidence, please present it.

Quoted from Extraballz:

The manufacturers know what things are inferior to what they once were.

Ask operators like ltg if things overall are inferior.

Quoted from Extraballz:

So you have good clear on Hobbit and you change something? Smells like more cost cutting.

Not necessarily. They may be working with a vendor that provides playfields or clearcoat services. Those vendors may have a common supplier that made changes to THEIR formula, unannounced. One possibility why you're seeing issues with multiple manufacturers.

It's absurd to think both JJP and Stern decided to cut costs and purposefully lower quality on playfields. Beyond ridiculous. No businessperson would make such a change without thorough testing. To suggest multiple manufacturers did so, on purpose, to save tens of dollars on a playfield defies logic. More likely there is a new process that was a lot faster but has unforeseen issues.

Quoted from Extraballz:

So yes I feel the drop in quality including PFs is on purpose. They think. How far can we push the envelope on cost cutting to increase profit. Well guess what. That ballon just popped. People aren’t even asking for better quality really. That are asking for the build quality they had 10 years ago. We all know we could have at least that if the manufacturers wanted to put quality over highest profit margin. They must think people are dumb. It’s time for the chickens to come home to roost. These manufacturers have been pushing their luck for years.

The above is just rhetoric. This is a quality issue (probably multiple issues with different causes) with ZERO evidence to suggest it's a purposeful move done to save money at the expense of quality. You're trying to whip yourself into an emotional frenzy. You're not a mob. Put away the pitchforks and the hangman's noose. There will be no lynching here today.

12
#632 3 months ago

As long as some of you guys pay these prices for these subpar quality builds they wont fix anything. Why should they if business is booming?

#633 3 months ago
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

ps: great job on Spiderman, it looks brand new next to my year old Iron Maiden!

And at the moment I’ll just put in a shameless plug that one can find my SM for sale on regional northeast CL sites!

But seriously, that sucks about your IMDN. I’ve seen two JP2’s, a Munsters Prem, and am IMDN all with this issue... all in the last 2 weeks. It sucks for sure and hope owners are made whole for this shit QC.

#634 3 months ago

Guys, please don’t get a new Stern or JJP until they get quality playfields back into production.

So, how will we know when they are good??? They will confirm there was and issue, explain how they have corrected it, and cover it under warranty. Until that happens I am out. I’ll wait for HUO if they don’t so I don’t have one with the issues.

#635 3 months ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Guys, please don’t get a new Stern or JJP until they get quality playfields back into production.
So, how will we know when they are good??? They will confirm there was and issue, explain how they have corrected it, and cover it under warranty. Until that happens I am out. I’ll wait for HUO if they don’t so I don’t have one with the issues.

There will still be plenty of bad ones all boxed up and ready to go well after they do anything.

It is a known issue now, so in the near future and until it is fully resolved, anybody that complains about the game they just unboxed having this problem, gets what they deserve.

#636 3 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

There will still be plenty of bad ones all boxed up and ready to go well after they do anything.
It is a known issue now, so in the near future and until it is fully resolved, anybody that complains about the game they just unboxed having this problem, gets what they deserve.

It’s a gamble in the Wild West right now. Good luck nib buyer’s...

#637 3 months ago
Quoted from underlord:

It’s a gamble in the Wild West right now. Good luck nib buyer’s...

Yeah, just don't come crying to us any more like you weren't warned.

#638 3 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

It is a known issue now, so in the near future and until it is fully resolved, anybody that complains about the game they just unboxed having this problem, gets what they deserve.

Most people buying games aren’t on Pinside on a daily basis.

It’s not a known issue until Stern/JJP make a statement to the effect. Until then it’s a ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ from every distributor, operator, and collector trying to sell their game to somebody with the eyesight to notice chipped artwork on very new games.

#639 3 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Most people buying games aren’t on Pinside on a daily basis.

True. But most of the one's bitching here are.

#640 3 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

True. But most of the one's bitching here are.

Still. It’s their right. There are games from the past 12 months exhibiting these problems with relatively low usage. It wasn’t a commonly discussed problem until this past month.

I wonder how long some distributors have been dealing with this issue before it got some traction with the most obsessive pinball collectors.

#641 3 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Still. It’s their right. There are games from the past 12 months exhibiting these problems with relatively low usage. It wasn’t a commonly discussed problem until this past month.

Most definitely! But noone who's been paying the slightest bit of attention should be oblivious to the issue at hand now. And how nobody has mentioned a real resolve yet.

-43
#642 3 months ago

Man all of you complain so much it insane.

Just enjoy the hobby and stop ruining/ scaring the Newbies.

It's really not that big of a deal.

Man I've been through like 100 pins over the years and here and there they have issues.
Good God what a bunch of babies.

P.S. yes I buy NIB too.

#643 3 months ago
Quoted from Pinchild:

Man all of you complain so much it insane.

And when there's nothing really left to complain about, we can always complain about the other complainers.

#644 3 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

And how nobody has mentioned a real resolve yet.

Well, Jack says JJP is working on it. Listen to his one-way statement on the monotone sycophant twins podcast; "It's from the heart". His retirement may have been pushed back a bit with this.

#645 3 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

And when there's nothing really left to complain about, we can always complain about the other complainers.

Lol now that's funny

#646 3 months ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Well, Jack says JJP is working on it. Listen to his one-way statement on the monotone sycophant twins podcast; "It's from the heart". His retirement may have been pushed back a bit with this.

I sure enjoy his pins

#647 3 months ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Well, Jack says JJP is working on it.

Top men are working on it.

12
#648 3 months ago
Quoted from Pinchild:

Man all of you complain so much it insane.
Just enjoy the hobby and stop ruining/ scaring the Newbies.
It's really not that big of a deal.
Man I've been through like 100 pins over the years and here and there they have issues.
Good God what a bunch of babies.
P.S. yes I buy NIB too.

You are a @#$%^&*. I look at my TSPP, LOTR, SM, Tron, ST, Met, TWD. None have these issues. No dimpling, no “pooling”, no ghosting. Nothing. The late model shit sucks ass. Period.

-28
#649 3 months ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

You are a fucktard. I look at my TSPP, LOTR, SM, Tron, ST, Met, TWD. None have these issues. No dimpling, no “pooling”, no ghosting. Nothing. The late model shit sucks ass. Period.

Yes.
Folk from Colorado do have anger issues.

You worry to much Bro
Relax all will work out.

Yes I realize your on your Period as well.

No worries it's all good

P.S. nice lineup of pins

#650 3 months ago
Quoted from Pinchild:

Yes.
Folk from Colorado do have anger issues.
You worry to much Bro
Relax all will work out.
Yes I realize your on your Period as well.
No worries it's all good
P.S. nice lineup of pins

When older games don’t have the issue and new ones do. Fuck it. Bye

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