AC/DC (Pro Vault Edition)
Stern, 2017
Batman 66 (LE)
Stern, 2016
Batman 66 (Premium)
Stern, 2016
Batman 66 (Super LE)
Stern, 2016
Black Knight Sword of Rage (LE)
Stern, 2019
Guardians of the Galaxy (LE)
Stern, 2017
Guardians of the Galaxy (Premium)
Stern, 2017
Guardians of the Galaxy (Pro)
Stern, 2017Quoted from Saddath:I don't care about the resell value. I just want to play a game that plays perfect. And i don't like protectors. So no way one is coming on my pins. It's not like games are worth that much less without one.
Of course chipping of the playfield should not be an issue. No way. But a protector isn't going to prevent that.
The protector can even damage the pf.
WAAAAHHH???
Quoted from Saddath:I don't care about the resell value. I just want to play a game that plays perfect. And i don't like protectors. So no way one is coming on my pins. It's not like games are worth that much less without one.
Of course chipping of the playfield should not be an issue. No way. But a protector isn't going to prevent that.
The protector can even damage the pf.
Really u don't care about resale value? Cliffy protectors are awesome .... I agree if your talking about play field protectors
Quoted from PtownPin:Really u don't care about resale value? Cliffy protectors are awesome .... I agree if your talking about play field protectors
Yes i was talking about playfield protectors.
I got a cliffy in my shooterlane too. I think those look pretty decent and don't affect any gameplay.
And yes i don't care if the resell value is going to be a couple of 100s less because there is no playfield protector installed. It's not like a game is suddenly worthless. I just want to have the maximum of fun wirh my pins.
Quoted from Saddath:Yes i was talking about playfield protectors.
I got a cliffy in my shooterlane too. I think those look pretty decent and don't affect any gameplay.
And yes i don't care if the resell value is going to be a couple of 100s less because there is no playfield protector installed. It's not like a game is suddenly worthless. I just want to have the maximum of fun wirh my pins.
I think Cliffy protectors are great and really don't affect game play....at least on the 20 or so games I've installed them on
A short feedback for my TMNT Pro PF (June 18, 2020).
- Cabinet quality is good from what i have seen.
- Clear coat looks ok, no strong ribbing or lift inserts.
- Ball guides cutting into CC again with noticable "pooling", so i added washers to prevent future damage.
- Art color looks good.
- Dimples are medium to bad.
- PF warp (droopy sides) from left to right about 2mm (0.04 inches), enough to notice it in certain situations, not enough to complain.
- PF warp from top to bottom (angle), 6.27 - 7.01 - 6.85 degrees...
- Clear Coat has one hard dot-spot like seen on earlier posts, I will live with it until i see damage occuring there
- One ramp has a scratch from below and the metal flap looks bend where the hole for the screw driver is.
- sticky glue residue on the green surrounding of the backbox, i really cant remove that stuff! HELP
- One problematic missaligned ballguide (training shot), prone to ball cutting, metal pieces and clear coat damage (fixed with bending)
- After one game a washer from the flipper mech broke, led to a droopy flipper, fixed
i will give a in detail review on the TMNT thread when i find time.
Over all i am happy with the game, i wished the PF wouldn't be warped, had no dot/spot and was less prone to dimples, but i will enjoy it.
IMG_20200731_204653 (resized).jpgIMG_20200731_204744 (resized).jpgIMG_20200731_205814 (resized).jpgIMG_20200731_212422 (resized).jpgQuoted from ABE_FLIPS:- Ball guides cutting into CC again with noticable "pooling"
- Dimples are medium to bad.
- PF warp (droopy sides) from left to right about 2mm (0.04 inches), enough to notice it in certain situations, not enough to complain.
- PF warp from top to bottom (angle), 6.27 - 7.01 - 6.85 degrees...
- Clear Coat has one hard dot-spot like seen on earlier posts, I will live with it until i see damage occuring there
- One ramp has a scratch from below and the metal flap looks bend where the hole for the screw driver is.
- sticky glue residue on the green surrounding of the backbox, i really cant remove that stuff! HELP
Glad you are happy with it. Enjoy!
Quoted from seenev:If it didn't matter you wouldn't hear so many people saying "I just put Mylar down day one." Even if you personally don't care, it wrecks the value of your game. The next guy will care, and will pay less for it.
Eh... “wreck” is a little extreme. Maybe $100-$200 less for a little shooter lane wear
Quoted from nicoy3k:Eh... “wreck” is a little extreme. Maybe $100-$200 less for a little shooter lane wear
Or maybe lose a sale totally because people dont like a game that shows wear. Should at least put some removable mylar down in any known wear areas. It just takes a minute and it helps a lot.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Or maybe lose a sale totally because people dont like a game that shows wear. Should at least put some removable mylar down in any known wear areas. It just takes a minute and it helps a lot.
Please point me in the direction of all the games on fire sale because of some shooter lane wear. Would love to buy one.
Quoted from nicoy3k:Please point me in the direction of all the games on fire sale because of some shooter lane wear.
I started a fire sale thread on pinside a few months ago and some people must have got real offended as it was shut down in less than an hour.
No fire sales allowed on pinside. You'd be better off dumping any defects on Craigslist using fuzzy pictures.
Quoted from nicoy3k:Please point me in the direction of all the games on fire sale because of some shooter lane wear. Would love to buy one.
I'm not trying to argue with you, just trying to help you. The point I'm trying to make is I would pass on your game that has wear in key areas because I am pretty picky. I would rather buy one from a seller that has taken better care of his game even if it's 500 more dollars.
You have the right to do whatever you want to your games because they are yours and if you are doing well financially and dont care about having to sell your game below market value then by all means dont protect your games.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I'm not trying to argue with you, just trying to help you. The point I'm trying to make is I would pass on your game that has wear in key areas because I am pretty picky. I would rather buy one from a seller that has taken better care of his game even if it's 500 more dollars.
You have the right to do whatever you want to your games because they are yours and if you are doing well financially and dont care about having to sell your game below market value then by all means dont protect your games.
And I’m trying to help the OCD guys that noticed some shooter lane wear on their machine enjoy their game instead of stressing about their resale value being suddenly “wrecked”. It doesn’t mean their game wasn’t meticulously maintained in other aspects. You’ll pay $500 more for a perfect shooter lane, I’ll gladly buy a game that was otherwise well maintained...
Quoted from nicoy3k:I’m trying to help the OCD guys that noticed some shooter lane wear on their machine enjoy their game instead of stressing
OCD and pinball must be a very stressful situation.
Especially when these were designed to be left in public 24/7 where kids could scratch them up and slobber on and stick chewing gum to the bottom of the cabinets.
Quoted from nicoy3k:And I’m trying to help the OCD guys that noticed some shooter lane wear on their machine enjoy their game instead of stressing about their resale value being suddenly “wrecked”. It doesn’t mean their game wasn’t meticulously maintained in other aspects. You’ll pay $500 more for a perfect shooter lane, I’ll gladly buy a game that was otherwise well maintained...
I think most of us here are OCD about our games. I take great pride in mine kinda like they are a show car or something. I enjoy keeping them nice.
Quoted from o-din:OCD and pinball must be a very stressful situation.
Not at all. Whenever I clean or work on my games it actually relieves stress from me and makes me happy for some reason. I will usually turn on a pinball stream and start cleaning away and it's very relaxing and enjoyable and best of all the game looks great when I'm done.
Stern encourages people to view these as collectibles. Not only are they priced for the high end home market, but they release premium and limited editions with exclusive features and artwork. They put autographs on them and number them. Saying these games are intended to get beat up on location and we're not supposed to care about poor quality goes against their entire marketing strategy. You can't have it both ways.
Quoted from seenev:Stern encourages people to view these as collectibles. Not only are they priced for the high end home market, but they release premium and limited editions with exclusive features and artwork. They put autographs on them and number them. Saying these games are intended to get beat up on location and we're not supposed to care about poor quality goes against their entire marketing strategy.
They don't need to pretend these are collectables or worry about quality, when all they have to do is dangle another 35-40 year old theme like a carrot in front of a donkey, and those with more money than hair do the rest.
Quoted from o-din:They don't need to pretend these are collectables or worry about quality, when all they have to do is dangle another 35-40 year old theme like a carrot in front of a donkey, and those with more money than hair do the rest.
Yup.
Stern can apparently have it more than both ways when people compulsively buy the next "retro" theme sight unseen.
Lowered quality (coil stops that are below home grade and playfield items sinking in through gooey clear coat...), higher prices, and "fake LE" cachet... if people are gonna put up with it may as well meet the demand.
Stern has done a lot of good and great things over time, but considering they keep repeating these weird playfield issues and apparenlty keep pulling in from the "horrible coil stop" bin when building games makes one wonder...
If these are collectables, I can point you in the direction of some recently made in China Star Wars toys.
Quoted from o-din:They don't need to pretend these are collectables or worry about quality, when all they have to do is dangle another 35-40 year old theme like a carrot in front of a donkey, and those with more money than hair do the rest.
I am offended. I have plenty of hair its just not on my head jerk. I also canceled my tmnt pro. Unfortunately I learned the hard way with my JP premium. I stayed clear of all these recent issues till last month. I should just went and bought a jet ski.
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:I am offended.
Sorry, my filter is off today. Got saturated with Jack last night and didn't totally dry out in the sun today.
Quoted from seenev:Stern encourages people to view these as collectibles. Not only are they priced for the high end home market, but they release premium and limited editions with exclusive features and artwork. They put autographs on them and number them. Saying these games are intended to get beat up on location and we're not supposed to care about poor quality goes against their entire marketing strategy. You can't have it both ways.
Had to “laugh“ earlier in this thread.....one really unhappy Stern customer.....and it turns out he is a competition player who bought through the IFPA.
The narrative from Stern and fanboys has always been “only home collectors are picky and complain about quality issues such as crap playfields, cheap coil stops, and half baked mechs. But it doesn’t matter, our target market is “real” pinball players and operators, and “real players” don’t care about this stuff.”
Well, the tide is out Stern - Covid has the screwed the operators and the comp players. And even the comp players are unhappy.
Guess you have no choice but to deal with the pesky home collectors now.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I'm not trying to argue with you, just trying to help you. The point I'm trying to make is I would pass on your game that has wear in key areas because I am pretty picky. I would rather buy one from a seller that has taken better care of his game even if it's 500 more dollars.
You have the right to do whatever you want to your games because they are yours and if you are doing well financially and dont care about having to sell your game below market value then by all means dont protect your games.
Yeah excactly it's not a lost sale for me as a seller because when i drop my offer 200-400 below what others want for the same machine my mail gets bombarded. Ans yes I'm financially well. I don't see how you could not be when buying 10k toys.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I think most of us here are OCD about our games. I take great pride in mine kinda like they are a show car or something. I enjoy keeping them nice.
Nah, I'd say opposite. I'd say most collectors understand that these are physical machines that receive wear and tear as they are played. The only issue that most have is with obvious manufacturing defects.
If someone brings a magnifying glass to buy a machine from me, I'll show them the door.
Quoted from Tranquilize:. I'd say most collectors understand that these are physical machines that receive wear and tear as they are played.
I don't think that anyone thinks that these games wont show wear after lots of plays. You would have to be pretty stupid to think a game will still look new after it's been played a lot, however in a home use only environment they should stay looking good for a hell of a long time unless you play pinball every single day for hours. The people that I know take pride in their collections and they keep their games in good shape.
Quoted from seenev:Stern encourages people to view these as collectibles. Not only are they priced for the high end home market, but they release premium and limited editions with exclusive features and artwork. They put autographs on them and number them. Saying these games are intended to get beat up on location and we're not supposed to care about poor quality goes against their entire marketing strategy. You can't have it both ways.
Stern does not decide what is collectible. The market does. The market has obviously spoken that there are plenty of people willing to spend thousands more for a little plaque. Stern can even make a super LE and force buyers to beg and plea to be able to buy for obscene money. In fact, they have done that. Stern would be foolish to just make pros and ignore this market. At the end of the day these are all just pinball machines and Stern manufacturers pinball machines. It seems like some buyers think they are getting something else when spending LE money.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I don't think that anyone thinks that these games wont show wear after lots of plays. You would have to be pretty stupid to think a game will still look new after it's been played a lot, however in a home use only environment they should stay looking good for a hell of a long time unless you play pinball every single day for hours. The people that I know take pride in their collections and they keep their games in good shape.
Even if you do play pinball every single day for hours (we do) you can keep them looking nice with regular cleaning, waxing and ball changes.
Quoted from zaphX:Even if you do play pinball every single day for hours (we do) you can keep them looking nice with regular cleaning, waxing and ball changes.
Yep I agree, but eventually some day they will start to show wear. Nothing last forever and I think everyone realizes that.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Yep I agree, but eventually some day they will start to show wear. Nothing last forever and I think everyone realizes that.
I’m good with normal wear.
Most of what you guys have discussed ain’t normal and shouldn’t be tolerated at these prices.
I dont like using the word but this thread is nothing short of toxic.... a lot of consumer complaints and a lot of product issues, neither of which will be going away any time soon.
Usually this thread to me is like a car crash... i can't help but have a look but I'm over it. It achieves nothing and only makes you feel like shit about your recent purchase and being in the hobby, or at best leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
So a realisation... eff this thread. Im going to buy and enjoy my games. I'm not going to seek out every little imperfection on the game i buy. The reality is for me anyway that i could go back to another hobby like cars and waste a whole lot more money than on pinnies. At the end of the day they hold their value pretty well regardless. All hobbies cost money and have their issues. When you start to spend more time complaining than enjoying its probably a good sign to leave.
Quoted from John1210:I dont like using the word but this thread is nothing short of toxic.... a lot of consumer complaints and a lot of product issues, neither of which will be going away any time soon.
Usually this thread to me is like a car crash... i can't help but have a look but I'm over it. It achieves nothing and only makes you feel like shit about your recent purchase and being in the hobby, or at best leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
So a realisation... eff this thread. Im going to buy and enjoy my games. I'm not going to seek out every little imperfection on the game i buy. The reality is for me anyway that i could go back to another hobby like cars and waste a whole lot more money than on pinnies. At the end of the day they hold their value pretty well regardless. All hobbies cost money and have their issues. When you start to spend more time complaining than enjoying its probably a good sign to leave.
I dunno why people feel like they need to make these kinds of posts. You can just leave the thread and not come back. You don't need to lecture people on the way out because they care about something that you don't.
Quoted from EricHadley:This thread offends me. I am going to tear it down
Organize a protest!
Quoted from John1210:I dont like using the word but this thread is nothing short of toxic.... a lot of consumer complaints and a lot of product issues, neither of which will be going away any time soon.
Usually this thread to me is like a car crash... i can't help but have a look but I'm over it. It achieves nothing and only makes you feel like shit about your recent purchase and being in the hobby, or at best leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
So a realisation... eff this thread. Im going to buy and enjoy my games. I'm not going to seek out every little imperfection on the game i buy. The reality is for me anyway that i could go back to another hobby like cars and waste a whole lot more money than on pinnies. At the end of the day they hold their value pretty well regardless. All hobbies cost money and have their issues. When you start to spend more time complaining than enjoying its probably a good sign to leave.
This thread is the equivalent of a critical review in Consumer Reports. Where else if not in Pinside are people going share their experiences with games (both positive and negative). There‘s plenty of threads in Pinside which paint everything rosy.
Quoted from John1210:I dont like using the word but this thread is nothing short of toxic.... a lot of consumer complaints and a lot of product issues, neither of which will be going away any time soon.
Usually this thread to me is like a car crash... i can't help but have a look but I'm over it. It achieves nothing and only makes you feel like shit about your recent purchase and being in the hobby, or at best leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
So a realisation... eff this thread. Im going to buy and enjoy my games. I'm not going to seek out every little imperfection on the game i buy. The reality is for me anyway that i could go back to another hobby like cars and waste a whole lot more money than on pinnies. At the end of the day they hold their value pretty well regardless. All hobbies cost money and have their issues. When you start to spend more time complaining than enjoying its probably a good sign to leave.
I'm not sure you understand the contemporary definition of online toxicity. We aren't attacking a certain group or individual or each other; we're having decently civil conversations about how shitty mostly Stern's quality of manufacturing has become.
I don't like using the word, but your post was nothing short of a snowflake reaction. I might be getting a little toxic. Better slow down.
Now, back to the shooter lane wear discussion!
Quoted from John1210:I dont like using the word but this thread is nothing short of toxic.... a lot of consumer complaints and a lot of product issues, neither of which will be going away any time soon.
Usually this thread to me is like a car crash... i can't help but have a look but I'm over it. It achieves nothing and only makes you feel like shit about your recent purchase and being in the hobby, or at best leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
So a realisation... eff this thread. Im going to buy and enjoy my games. I'm not going to seek out every little imperfection on the game i buy. The reality is for me anyway that i could go back to another hobby like cars and waste a whole lot more money than on pinnies. At the end of the day they hold their value pretty well regardless. All hobbies cost money and have their issues. When you start to spend more time complaining than enjoying its probably a good sign to leave.
Sorry, but you came on here saying eff this thread and calling it toxic?! This weeks award for irony goes to.....
Quoted from John1210:I dont like using the word but this thread is nothing short of toxic.... a lot of consumer complaints and a lot of product issues, neither of which will be going away any time soon.
Usually this thread to me is like a car crash... i can't help but have a look but I'm over it. It achieves nothing and only makes you feel like shit about your recent purchase and being in the hobby, or at best leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
So a realisation... eff this thread. Im going to buy and enjoy my games. I'm not going to seek out every little imperfection on the game i buy. The reality is for me anyway that i could go back to another hobby like cars and waste a whole lot more money than on pinnies. At the end of the day they hold their value pretty well regardless. All hobbies cost money and have their issues. When you start to spend more time complaining than enjoying its probably a good sign to leave.
Where else are you going to hear the truth about the actual quality of these games? It definitely isn't going to be brought up on 95% of the podcasts out there. No need to announce your departure...just drain and move on.
When I got my JP Premium, I noticed the ball guides being pretty tight. I loostened them all and inserted a very small fiber washer around all the posts (cut a slit in them so I didn't have to remove the guides completely...resucurred and hand tightened and haven't had one problem with over 5000 plays. I could tell though if I hadn't intervened, there would have been scraping and pooling eventually. Wonder why stern doesn't just add the fiber washers at the factory, you literaly can't see them and they don't change the geometry of the rails at all. Could probably do an entire game for about $2 in washers
Quoted from fooflighter:When I got my JP Premium, I noticed the ball guides being pretty tight. I loostened them all and inserted a very small fiber washer around all the posts (cut a slit in them so I didn't have to remove the guides completely...resucurred and hand tightened and haven't had one problem with over 5000 plays. I could tell though if I hadn't intervened, there would have been scraping and pooling eventually. Wonder why stern doesn't just add the fiber washers at the factory, you literaly can't see them and they don't change the geometry of the rails at all. Could probably do an entire game for about $2 in washers
That's great! With all the talk about using fiber washers, is there a standard size used throughout stern playfields? I guess it depends on whether you use them under various posts or ball guides? Does Lowe's or Home Depot sell them? I used nylon and metal washer combo under the katana entrance for Deadpool pro and it works great. Thanks!
Quoted from John1210:I dont like using the word but this thread is nothing short of toxic.... a lot of consumer complaints and a lot of product issues, neither of which will be going away any time soon.
Usually this thread to me is like a car crash... i can't help but have a look but I'm over it. It achieves nothing and only makes you feel like shit about your recent purchase and being in the hobby, or at best leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
So a realisation... eff this thread. Im going to buy and enjoy my games. I'm not going to seek out every little imperfection on the game i buy. The reality is for me anyway that i could go back to another hobby like cars and waste a whole lot more money than on pinnies. At the end of the day they hold their value pretty well regardless. All hobbies cost money and have their issues. When you start to spend more time complaining than enjoying its probably a good sign to leave.
18AB5765-66BF-4FA2-A149-E731AEB7485C (resized).jpegSince this is a single thread about the game, you'll find both 1) ENTHUSIASTS who treat their games like collectibles and are quite comfortable discussing new mods, manufacturer's quality, and folklore associated with every detail of OWNING their machines, and 2) PLAYERS who are focused on, well, playing the machine, BOTH of these discussions are contained in this one thread... and BOTH are just fine. No need to polarize here. Both groups can have fun.
Quoted from Markharris2000:Both groups can have fun.
Yes, it's super fun watching playfields on brand new pinball machines deteriorate, and the owners getting no response from those that made them.
So fun, I'm sure we all hope this never ends.
Quoted from seenev:I dunno why people feel like they need to make these kinds of posts. You can just leave the thread and not come back. You don't need to lecture people on the way out because they care about something that you don't.
I don't suppose you see the irony in your post
Quoted from durgee7:That's great! With all the talk about using fiber washers, is there a standard size used throughout stern playfields? I guess it depends on whether you use them under various posts or ball guides? Does Lowe's or Home Depot sell them? I used nylon and metal washer combo under the katana entrance for Deadpool pro and it works great. Thanks!
Here are posts showing what I did and what I used under my apron and one of the ball guides on my JP2. Would be really good if manufacturers put washers under ball guides and aprons when they assemble them.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/welcome-to-the-jurassic-park-le-club/page/17#post-5225712
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/welcome-to-the-jurassic-park-le-club/page/66#post-5328991
Quoted from John1210:I dont like using the word but this thread is nothing short of toxic.... a lot of consumer complaints and a lot of product issues, neither of which will be going away any time soon.
Usually this thread to me is like a car crash... i can't help but have a look but I'm over it. It achieves nothing and only makes you feel like shit about your recent purchase and being in the hobby, or at best leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
So a realisation... eff this thread. Im going to buy and enjoy my games. I'm not going to seek out every little imperfection on the game i buy. The reality is for me anyway that i could go back to another hobby like cars and waste a whole lot more money than on pinnies. At the end of the day they hold their value pretty well regardless. All hobbies cost money and have their issues. When you start to spend more time complaining than enjoying its probably a good sign to leave.
Shame on you John you really seem to make a lot of people but hurt as 6 of the 9 comments after yours are people quoting your post lol
At what point did people stop saying "these games are made to withstand abuse on location" and start saying "these games were meant to get beat up and worn out on location?" I feel like people used to talk about being designed for location play like that meant the games were built extra sturdy. Now it seems like people say that like it means they're disposable.
Quoted from seenev:At what point did people stop saying "these games are made to withstand abuse on location" and start saying "these games were meant to get beat up and worn out on location?" I feel like people used to talk about being designed for location play like that meant the games were built extra sturdy. Now it seems like people say that like it means they're disposable.
At the point where many requests for new playfields were denied or not responded to. But the dream themes kept on coming.
So, to either justify another purchase, or to not lose money on an already purchased defective machine, poor quality became OK and the new normal.
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