(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

11 months ago



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There are 6149 posts in this topic. You are on page 121 of 123.
#6001 9 days ago

My bm66

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#6002 9 days ago

I canceled an order I had with Stern for HD glass today saying I don't want to invest any more in my new game after discovering chipping. It's not much but hopefully these things will add up and they'll improve their playfields.

#6003 9 days ago
Quoted from tyson171:

Did your play field chip near a post, or was it a random spot? Just curious if a cliffy carbon fiber washer could at least cover it up for you.
As far as the play field swap, that is the last thing in the world I would want, even though i'm also in the market for a project pin! I've built wide body cabinets from scratch before, but that's because i'm coming from the virtual world ). I have a good amount of learning to do regarding the mechanical side, but not looking for my first NIB stern to be a project, so I absolutely agree that i would be bitter, its not acceptable ect, but, life is full of this kind of stuff. Make the best of it, enjoy some pinball, and move on.
You can abandon every modern manufacturer and stick with the classics, as it seems to impact them all regarding play field issues, but pinball is in a resurgence, and it would be a shame to miss out! Just my early opinion, as most hobbies, i'm sure it will change as I progress through this one! Looking forward to the ride!

Its in a resurgence and Stern games a generally a blast, but why do they choose to shoot themselves in the foot?

#6004 9 days ago
Quoted from ralphcousman:

My bm66
[quoted image][quoted image]

thats interesting, good to know that its just a cheap title, imagine spending over 10k for a game ending up with those spikes and cuts.
j/k i feel sorry, dont accept the machine, send it straight back. and order a new one, or get ready for big headache.

#6005 9 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Its in a resurgence and Stern games a generally a blast, but why do they choose to shoot themselves in the foot?

Its pretty simple....they really don't care if they lose a few customers. In their mind sales are steady even with a a cheap product and terrible warranty. To them its worth the risk.

12
#6006 9 days ago

Just orderer Oktoberfest today. Wanted turtles but bye bye Stern, no nib Stern again. Shame you just shit the bed every chance you get. Poor show, great team of designers making fantastic games and you let them down the most....well, atleast equal with the buyers....well...you get my point! Shame!

17
#6007 8 days ago
Quoted from JonCrox:

Just orderer Oktoberfest today. Wanted turtles but bye bye Stern, no nib Stern again. Shame you just shit the bed every chance you get. Poor show, great team of designers making fantastic games and you let them down the most....well, atleast equal with the buyers....well...you get my point! Shame!

It really is baffling to me that they invest so much money in their design team and their coders and whatever other areas that makes these games so good but they could give a f*ck less about the quality of their product. I mean seriously Stern wtf is up with that?

#6008 8 days ago
Quoted from JonCrox:

Just orderer Oktoberfest today

only talking on that, you wont be disapointed (well, lets hope, as this is a great game)

#6009 8 days ago
Quoted from Prodoshi:

thats interesting, good to know that its just a cheap title, imagine spending over 10k for a game ending up with those spikes and cuts.
j/k i feel sorry, dont accept the machine, send it straight back. and order a new one, or get ready for big headache.

I purchased before covid then covid and time has passed stern did nothing. Emailed a few times , i just wanted a playfield shipped to me nothing else. No money for rebuild a machine etc.

A month or so ago My distro asked is stern did anything for me , i said no and that it is what it is at this point.

#6010 8 days ago
Quoted from JonCrox:

Just orderer Oktoberfest today.

Quoted from RipleYYY:

only talking on that, you wont be disapointed (well, lets hope, as this is a great game)

You will love OF!

#6011 8 days ago

This is terrible, I was planning on buying more nib pins from stern and even try a jjp for the first time but I like to gamble when I go to the casino not when I'm buying a pinball machine.

I know there is always people who will never be happy and critic every single little detail but lately I see more and more people complaining and not the same as always bunch.

This is a good sign to me that major pinball cies don't care as they should about there product and will accept that true fans may buy less lately as long as pinball are selling even if it's to guys who cannot Identify what is an orbit shot. I don't mean to offend anyone but a friend of mine who did not care for pinball for his entire life is trilled and feels nostalgic about maybe buying a teenage mutant ninja turtles.

I bought 5 NIB stern in the last years but I'll take a break for a near future see how things go.

#6012 8 days ago
Quoted from Darth_Chris:

This is terrible, I was planning on buying more nib pins from stern and even try a jjp for the first time but I like to gamble when I go to the casino not when I'm buying a pinball machine.
I know there is always people who will never be happy and critic every single little detail but lately I see more and more people complaining and not the same as always bunch.
This is a good sign to me that major pinball cies don't care as they should about there product and will accept that true fans may buy less lately as long as pinball are selling even if it's to guys who cannot Identify what is an orbit shot. I don't mean to offend anyone but a friend of mine who did not care for pinball for his entire life is trilled and feels nostalgic about maybe buying a teenage mutant ninja turtles.
I bought 5 NIB stern in the last years but I'll take a break for a near future see how things go.

I took a break. Came back. Bought a JP premium with a shooter lane that chipped like crazy in 200 plays and have pooling at ball guides. Stay sane stay clear.

#6013 8 days ago
Quoted from tyson171:

Other than a cliffy set, and code upgrade, anything else recommended for a JP Premium?

A spare pf. Node boards, a new cab as they tend to split at the seams.

As long as you don’t ever update it, play it or move it, you’ll be good.

22
#6014 8 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

It really is baffling to me that they invest so much money in their design team and their coders and whatever other areas that makes these games so good but they could give a f*ck less about the quality of their product. I mean seriously Stern wtf is up with that?

They just don't care anymore. Here is what I sent them this AM. We will see what comes from that. If not, I guess I'll have to take the next step and get my attorney involved. I really don't want to go that route but I refuse to sit back quietly and not get what I paid for. Sure, it may cost me more in the long run doing that but I'm at the point now that I'd be willing to go that route out of principle alone.

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#6015 8 days ago

Haha threw Josh in there for good measure?

#6016 8 days ago
Quoted from 85vett:

They just don't care anymore. Here is what I sent them this AM. We will see what comes from that. If not, I guess I'll have to take the next step and get my attorney involved. I really don't want to go that route but I refuse to sit back quietly and not get what I paid for. Sure, it may cost me more in the long run doing that but I'm at the point now that I'd be willing to go that route out of principle alone.
[quoted image]

pasted_image (resized).png

Don't make him any more mad!

#6017 8 days ago
Quoted from 85vett:

They just don't care anymore. Here is what I sent them this AM. We will see what comes from that. If not, I guess I'll have to take the next step and get my attorney involved. I really don't want to go that route but I refuse to sit back quietly and not get what I paid for. Sure, it may cost me more in the long run doing that but I'm at the point now that I'd be willing to go that route out of principle alone.
[quoted image]

I sent a similar email , good luck! I would be surprised if they respond, i did not receive one.It also seems their poor customer treatment has grown with covid and the shut down of shows, tournaments and the such. They are completely isolated now and dont have to see any of their unhappy customers in person, they are taking full advantage of that.

#6018 8 days ago

When I unboxed my game and saw this written on the cover of the manual, I knew they had cheaped out since my last game. I think I have reasonable expectations but the quality now is just unacceptable. You're not even gambling hoping to get a good game. They're all cheap now.

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#6019 8 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Haha threw Josh in there for good measure?

Nah, he is my distributor since it was a rewards purchase which is another reason why I'm so surprised of the lack of response to my concerns. I've been trying to be as polite and helpful as possible but not sure how much longer I can do that. I actually normally wouldn't share an e-mail even but with what I'm reading hear I felt I should share.

#6020 8 days ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Nah, he is my distributor since it was a rewards purchase

Oh I see. I need to get that rewards program deal on my next game. It’s a good discount.

#6021 8 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Oh I see. I need to get that rewards program deal on my next game. It’s a good discount.

Good luck with that purchase....

#6022 8 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

When I unboxed my game and saw this written on the cover of the manual, I knew they had cheaped out since my last game. I think I have reasonable expectations but the quality now is just unacceptable. You're not even gambling hoping to get a good game. They're all cheap now.
[quoted image]

To be fair I work for a niche business that has to have a lot of CYA fineprint for those who just don't understand the process and things we cannot change.

However the difference being we have a very good quality control system and will try to rectify any problems that may arise (even if it's the customer's fault as long as it's reasonable).

I imagine they are just trying to limit how many playfields they send out as replacements which wouldn't be so bad if they didn't seem to keep making bad ones every game.

#6023 8 days ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

I took a break. Came back. Bought a JP premium with a shooter lane that chipped like crazy in 200 plays and have pooling at ball guides. Stay sane stay clear.

What did your distro say when you cancelled TMNT?

#6025 8 days ago
Quoted from ThatsaKicker:

To be fair I work for a niche business that has to have a lot of CYA fineprint for those who just don't understand the process and things we cannot change.
However the difference being we have a very good quality control system and will try to rectify any problems that may arise (even if it's the customer's fault as long as it's reasonable).
I imagine they are just trying to limit how many playfields they send out as replacements which wouldn't be so bad if they didn't seem to keep making bad ones every game.

The problem is that I can point to a bunch of little things on my playfield and complain and any one of them could probably fall under that disclaimer and they just say it's normal, but when you add them up it's hard to overlook. There's this expectation that the customer can't expect perfection and they have to be realistic, and I understand that. I also think that if customers had a chance to inspect their playfields before buying them, they would lose a lot of sales. When it comes down to "would you pay $6000-$9000 for this machine with this playfield?" people just expect better.

I don't even play my new game that much and so I never imagined I would need to cover it in protectors. I thought that was for heavy use people who wanted peace of mind for the long term. It's crazy that you can spend $8000 on a game and then feel like you can't play it until you install a few hundred dollars worth of add ons because the factory default configuration will start breaking down after a handful of plays. The fact that Stern considers LESS clear coat a solution is alarming. They're seeing increasing problems and removing the protective layer.

Anyways... I guess some of us have to learn the hard way.

#6026 8 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

What did your distro say when you cancelled TMNT?

He said he’s sorry and understands basically. Thinks it’s the conditions at the factory causing the clear too gather up. Sending pics to him then you know the rest.

#6027 8 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

The problem is that I can point to a bunch of little things on my playfield and complain and any one of them could probably fall under that disclaimer and they just say it's normal, but when you add them up it's hard to overlook. There's this expectation that the customer can't expect perfection and they have to be realistic, and I understand that. I also think that if customers had a chance to inspect their playfields before buying them, they would lose a lot of sales. When it comes down to "would you pay $6000-$9000 for this machine with this playfield?" people just expect better.
I don't even play my new game that much and so I never imagined I would need to cover it in protectors. I thought that was for heavy use people who wanted peace of mind for the long term. It's crazy that you can spend $8000 on a game and then feel like you can't play it until you install a few hundred dollars worth of add ons because the factory default configuration will start breaking down after a handful of plays. The fact that Stern considers LESS clear coat a solution is alarming. They're seeing increasing problems and removing the protective layer.
Anyways... I guess some of us have to learn the hard way.

Exactly. If they were producing decent playfields most of the time the statement wouldn't be as gear grinding.
But as it is now well, it just looks like an excuse and kick in the teeth.

#6028 8 days ago

thinks it’s heat and humidity at factory. Playfield should be cured somewhere else.

#6029 8 days ago
Quoted from 85vett:

They just don't care anymore. Here is what I sent them this AM. We will see what comes from that. If not, I guess I'll have to take the next step and get my attorney involved. I really don't want to go that route but I refuse to sit back quietly and not get what I paid for. Sure, it may cost me more in the long run doing that but I'm at the point now that I'd be willing to go that route out of principle alone.
[quoted image]

Pat Powers is very poor when it comes to corresponding in email or for that matter even returning voicemail. Hope you receive an answer.

#6030 8 days ago

Stern doesn't make playfields, but they do need to hold their playfield contractors accountable for these issues and get this resolved. If it's a cure time issue, they need to order far enough in advance to have them site on racks for a month or so. I was optimistic that it had been fixed, but these fresh run games prove otherwise. Frustrating, indeed.

#6031 8 days ago
Quoted from 85vett:

They just don't care anymore. Here is what I sent them this AM. We will see what comes from that. If not, I guess I'll have to take the next step and get my attorney involved. I really don't want to go that route but I refuse to sit back quietly and not get what I paid for. Sure, it may cost me more in the long run doing that but I'm at the point now that I'd be willing to go that route out of principle alone.
[quoted image]

Very well said. If you dont get a response you should drive to the factory dump the piece of shit right in front of their front doors. I can understand you being pissed off. They treat their customers like total shit. It's sad honestly.

#6032 7 days ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

Here’s my JP premium June 2020 build shooter lane with 200 plays.
And in the red circle with line in other pic is 50% of my ballguide / rail connection to playfield locations with pooling. This is actually not the worst of them. Hard to get a good pic need to stand right above, but some of the pooling has crept up the rails/guides.[quoted image][quoted image]

My shooter lane on Elvira HoH looks very similar to this, it’s 60ish plays, but was like this on day 1

0DDD191F-9A93-4747-B9BD-AA9B02B79F3A (resized).jpeg
#6033 7 days ago
Quoted from Kside:

My shooter lane on Elvira HoH looks very similar to this, it’s 60ish plays, but was like this on day 1[quoted image]

That ball fired out there and cracked that clearcoat like it was an air pocket under it!

#6034 7 days ago
Quoted from underlord:

A spare pf. Node boards, a new cab as they tend to split at the seams.
As long as you don’t ever update it, play it or move it, you’ll be good.

Apparently, they're using reinforced leg/corner brackets now. Here's a pic of my SW Comic Pro. So cab splitting SHOULD be a thing of the past. Also, what's weird is that my Whirlwind had exactly the same tiny leg-bolt brackets that Stern was using. Guess the Sys11 cabinets were sturdier, so they could handle the tiny brackets.

Also, does shooter lane wear really matter? I mean the shooter lane is isolated from the rest of playfield, so it's not like it can spread to where it matters. And I never look at the shooter lane anyway, so I don't get the obsession with it. But that's just me I guess.

IMG_20200722_150256 (resized).jpg

#6035 7 days ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

But that's just me I guess.

And me. I just put Mylar down day one to appease the crazies then get to playing.

#6036 7 days ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Apparently, they're using reinforced leg/corner brackets now. Here's a pic of my SW Comic Pro. So cab splitting SHOULD be a thing of the past. Also, what's weird is that my Whirlwind had exactly the same tiny leg-bolt brackets that Stern was using. Guess the Sys11 cabinets were sturdier, so they could handle the tiny brackets.
Also, does shooter lane wear really matter? I mean the shooter lane is isolated from the rest of playfield, so it's not like it can spread to wear it matters. And I never look at the shooter lane anyway, so I don't get the obsession with it. But that's just me I guess.
[quoted image]

My shooter lane is only part of my issues now. I have pooling clear at my ball guides. It may never chip, but still...if it does I know nothing will be done about it. My distributor wants pics so I need to get some this weekend, but said it’s a long process now. So crazy that my TWD le and Trek Premium looks flawless and were made in 2014 +/- Big difference in quality of clear.

10
#6037 7 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

When I unboxed my game and saw this written on the cover of the manual, I knew they had cheaped out since my last game. I think I have reasonable expectations but the quality now is just unacceptable. You're not even gambling hoping to get a good game. They're all cheap now.
[quoted image]

Exactly why I sold all 7 of my (latest) Stern LEs in the last 12 months. (Life’s short - not worth my time / hassle). Stern does not give a shit so I sold them. I have 1 Stern game left AC/DC (wife loves band). I sent messages to leadership at Stern without success.

Good luck everyone. I really hope Stern rights the ship on quality. However looks like they would rather invest time in notes like this versus R&D on playfield development & processes. I have confidence they will fix in the long term or be out business.

#6038 7 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

When I unboxed my game and saw this written on the cover of the manual, I knew they had cheaped out since my last game. I think I have reasonable expectations but the quality now is just unacceptable. You're not even gambling hoping to get a good game. They're all cheap now.
[quoted image]

I see no mention of pooling or chipping as being acceptable, so there is that.

#6039 7 days ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I see no mention of pooling or chipping as being acceptable, so there is that.

Sure you did. That’s what makes each one a precious snowflake. No two pool alike.

#6040 7 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

And me. I just put Mylar down day one to appease the crazies then get to playing.

If it didn't matter you wouldn't hear so many people saying "I just put Mylar down day one." Even if you personally don't care, it wrecks the value of your game. The next guy will care, and will pay less for it.

#6041 7 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

It really is baffling to me that they invest so much money in their design team and their coders and whatever other areas that makes these games so good but they could give a f*ck less about the quality of their product. I mean seriously Stern wtf is up with that?

Capture (resized).JPG

-3
#6042 7 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

If it didn't matter you wouldn't hear so many people saying "I just put Mylar down day one." Even if you personally don't care, it wrecks the value of your game. The next guy will care, and will pay less for it.

I don't care about the resell value. I just want to play a game that plays perfect. And i don't like protectors. So no way one is coming on my pins. It's not like games are worth that much less without one.

Of course chipping of the playfield should not be an issue. No way. But a protector isn't going to prevent that.
The protector can even damage the pf.

#6043 7 days ago
Quoted from Saddath:

I don't care about the resell value. I just want to play a game that plays perfect. And i don't like protectors. So no way one is coming on my pins. It's not like games are worth that much less without one.
Of course chipping of the playfield should not be an issue. No way. But a protector isn't going to prevent that.
The protector can even damage the pf.

Yeah. I'm not advocating protectors. I had a Ghostbusters Premium that I put thousands of games on and the shooter lane looked brand new without any protection. My new jurassic Park has chipping in less than a month of light use. Protectors are fine. There's going to be wear over time and you can do what you want to try to mitigate it, but clear coat cracking and chipping away after a couple weeks? That's not wear and tear. That's just shoddy quality.

What kind of global lifestyle brand has such low standards?

#6044 7 days ago

I wouldn't even think about playing a game on a new Stern without installing one of these.

Gameplay not affected at all.

Means it's perfect when you come to resell as it does affect resale value if you have chipped shooter lane.

Not a fan of playfield protectors though.

teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-shooter-lane-protector (resized).jpg
#6045 7 days ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

I wouldn't even think about playing a game on a new Stern without installing one of these.
Gameplay not affected at all.
Means it's perfect when you come to resell as it does affect resale value if you have chipped shooter lane.
Not a fan of playfield protectors though. [quoted image]

Agree. I have cliffys installed.l

10
#6046 7 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

The next guy will care, and will pay less for it.

I only sell to other people that don’t care.

We are called the Nihilist Pinball Alliance and we believe in nothing.

#6047 7 days ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

I wouldn't even think about playing a game on a new Stern without installing one of these.
Gameplay not affected at all.
Means it's perfect when you come to resell as it does affect resale value if you have chipped shooter lane.
Not a fan of playfield protectors though. [quoted image]

These are hideous but they do work well.

#6048 7 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I only sell to other people that don’t care.
We are called the Nihilist Pinball Alliance and we believe in nothing.

Stern is good, they can do no wrong, stern is good, they can do no wrong.....

pasted_image (resized).jpeg
#6049 7 days ago

Bwhahahahaha.

For $6000 to $12K, you get to unpopulate parts/all of your PF. You are practically paying Stern to help teach you how to prep for a PF route job.

Here's how Stern views the pinball community right here:

pasted_image (resized).png

#6050 7 days ago
Quoted from NPO:

Bwhahahahaha.
For $6000 to $12K, you get to unpopulate parts/all of your PF. You are practically paying Stern to help teach you how to prep for a PF route job.
Here's how Stern views the pinball community right here:
[quoted image]

Nah. More like...

67F97CDC-1241-442B-9317-8C9D82826D27 (resized).jpeg
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