(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

10 months ago



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There are 5757 posts in this topic. You are on page 107 of 116.
#5301 41 days ago
Quoted from shaub:

So Ive tried to skim this thread to see where these playfield issues are at but I'm hoping someone can catch me up.
Did removing art from around the posts on JP solve the issues people were having? or are those playfields still having problems as well? I notice that TMNT is missing the art there so Im hoping that's a positive sign...
Thanks.

See post #3302

#5302 41 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Did Stern do the same or just apply band-aid? Who knows.

That's too bad. If they didn't do anything, I can see why they'd be quiet. But if they did resolve the issue, it seems like buyer confidence would be restored with an official statement. On the other hand, an official statement would mean acknowledging issues in the first place. Thanks for the response, TMNT is gonna be my first NIB game so I guess it's my turn to be the guinea pig.

#5303 41 days ago
Quoted from shaub:

TMNT is gonna be my first NIB game so I guess it's my turn to be the guinea pig

Cannot understand why folks keep rolling the dice. Just wait, see how the games look once played for a while, then decide.

#5304 41 days ago
Quoted from Crile1:

Cannot understand why folks keep rolling the dice. Just wait, see how the games look once played for a while, then decide.

To clarify, I guess I am/was a sucker, too. I went in on a Stranger Thing Premium after playing an LE. Didn't think the dimples were too bad and I have a SW Premium and (just like the King said) the dimples have actually started to smooth out over time. But when I went to the Louisville Expo to pick up my game, there were lots of other show games available for purchase (Deadpool Pro, premium, JP pro, premium, Iron Man vault 2.0, ST vaults, Elviras, etc). I was amazed at how radically different each playfield looked. Some dimpled horribly from the get go. Some looked like they had planking from top to bottom (felt sorry for the potential owners) and some looked pristine. I will say that the Elviras looked the best. But it turned out to be a complete crap shoot. My game was as expected. Dimpled easily almost immediately. But I think over time (a couple of years of regular play) it will smooth out. Ended up trading it for a BK Premium with similar dimples. Because of the playfield coloring, the BK doesn't seem to show them as much, but they are there in numbers. The previous owner played the heck out of it, so I am expecting to see the same "smoothing out" to begin occurring after another 400-500 plays. On the other hand, my Hobbit (NIB), DI (second owner), RR WOZ (second owner) and JJPOTC (NIB) all look WAY much better. You actually have to look for dimples. They are there, but in MUCH fewer number and depth. That is my 2 cents.

#5305 41 days ago
Quoted from Crile1:

Cannot understand why folks keep rolling the dice. Just wait, see how the games look once played for a while, then decide.

That's all well and good but if nobody buys any machines, then they don't get made. But I totally understand where you're coming from.

#5306 41 days ago

not sure how much have talks about AP here, but my Oktoberfest (+/- 700 games) have just no dimples...
do i'm just lucky or all AP owners are also in that case !?

#5307 41 days ago
Quoted from Crile1:

Cannot understand why folks keep rolling the dice. Just wait, see how the games look once played for a while, then decide.

Then you don’t understand pinball.

People want the new game and they want it now.

That’s kind of the point for most NIB buyers.

#5308 41 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Then you don’t understand pinball.
People want the new game and they want it now.
That’s kind of the point for most NIB buyers.

And emotional decisions nearly always end in ruin. Logic staying ahead of emotion is key.

But...then again, it is Pinside....

#5309 40 days ago
Quoted from RipleYYY:

not sure how much have talks about AP here, but my Oktoberfest (+/- 700 games) have just no dimples...
do i'm just lucky or all AP owners are also in that case !?

My Houdini's PF is in great shape, and it's a Mirco. Sure - dimples, but you have to look for them. Had it for 1 /2 years.

Even my newer IMDN Pro is holding up very well, albeit some very minor (really have to look for it) pooling. My Munsters Pro (used, routed) is full of dimples, but all seem minor and maybe they are leveling out so you almost don't notice them unless you look.

Added 31 days ago:

Should be '1 1/2' yrs., not '1 /2'

#5310 40 days ago
Quoted from shaub:

That's all well and good but if nobody buys any machines, then they don't get made. But I totally understand where you're coming from.

I am now on the opposite side of the argument. If we don't buy, then they will respond with better games.

#5311 40 days ago
Quoted from Crile1:

I am now on the opposite side of the argument. If we don't buy, then they will respond with better games

Yeah, its a tough line to walk. If no one buys their games, then there are none on the resale market and there's no way that buyer confidence is restored. On the other hand, if we keep buying, they lack the incentive to take the necessary steps to ensure that buyer confidence is restored. Meanwhile, all we want is fun machines with a high build quality.

I guess that's why true competition is absolutely essential, then maybe we could get what we want AND send the right message to those that need to hear it.

#5312 38 days ago
Quoted from EaglePin:

Here's where Jack was asked about it at 2019 Expo. Fast forward to 52:25 into the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3174&v=vdNMZ2cjCV0&feature=emb_logo

Thanks for the link; glad I watched. Yeah, fuck that lol.

#5313 38 days ago
Quoted from Darkwing:

Thanks for the link; glad I watched. Yeah, fuck that lol.

Wow I just watched that. What a rat. Fuck nib 2020. I think it’s best to sit back and watch the fuck show. Waiting for tmnt Stern playfield pics soon and people going crazed.

#5316 38 days ago
Quoted from Darkwing:

Thanks for the link; glad I watched. Yeah, fuck that lol.

I cannot hear diddly squat in that video

#5317 37 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

I cannot hear diddly squat in that video

Watch on a PC, not on a phone. The file type won't play the audio correctly on my phone either.

Great message to hear.

#5319 32 days ago
Quoted from JY64:

The most recent pic of a chipping playfield is over 2 months old is this because of a fix or a lack of buyers

I posted this 44 days ago since then two chipping pics have been posted one JJP one Stern seems to be a lot of hype

#5320 32 days ago
Quoted from JY64:

I posted this 44 days ago since then two chipping pics have been posted one JJP one Stern seems to be a lot of hype

I’ve got a JP that started out with some clear bubbles and it’s progressed to chipping and splitting of one of those bubbles.

Don’t worry, I got a brown bottle of clear that will solve all my problems! I can’t believe that’s all they will offer. Even a new playfield at cost would be greatly appreciated

#5321 32 days ago

Just watched the video. Shocking. Someone in his P/R must have suggested to Jack that NO reply is best when you don't know the answer or the answer is negative and incomplete... BUT, he could have at least acknowledged the question, and offered to respond. The CEO of ANY saying he never heard of such a widely circulated/reported issue and having no additional comment to his user community is not a customer-centric & customer-satisfaction approach.

#5322 31 days ago
Quoted from JY64:

I posted this 44 days ago since then two chipping pics have been posted one JJP one Stern seems to be a lot of hype

I stopped buying from Stern, and currently am only buying from CGC.

#5323 31 days ago
Quoted from Markharris2000:

Just watched the video. Shocking. Someone in his P/R must have suggested to Jack that NO reply is best when you don't know the answer or the answer is negative and incomplete... BUT, he could have at least acknowledged the question, and offered to respond. The CEO of ANY saying he never heard of such a widely circulated/reported issue and having no additional comment to his user community is not a customer-centric & customer-satisfaction approach.

I was blown away when i watched that stream...stack that on his reaction when someone asked him if the mech was pulled from WOXYBR at TPF 2019 “Who told you to ask that?! Kaneda...” Yeah. No on that guy.

#5324 31 days ago
Quoted from Talon2000:

I stopped buying from Stern, and currently am only buying from CGC.

CGC/Spooky here

#5325 31 days ago
Quoted from jdoz2:

I’ve got a JP that started out with some clear bubbles and it’s progressed to chipping and splitting of one of those bubbles.
Don’t worry, I got a brown bottle of clear that will solve all my problems! I can’t believe that’s all they will offer. Even a new playfield at cost would be greatly appreciated

What was the build date of your game?

Anyone have anything made in 2020 that still has PF problems?

#5326 31 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

What was the build date of your game?
Anyone have anything made in 2020 that still has PF problems?

I think it will be up to your definition of a PF issue. I see that a couple people disagree with my definition based off a previous post, which is fine as that is their right. But, I still define a game with PF issues as one without a smooth finish. I haven't heard or seen of anyone with a 2020 PF having pooling issue and I doubt we will since the clear has been significantly reduced. Not 2020 but my December 13th, 2019 DP PF has a very wavy and grainy finish and 100% of the inserts are slightly above the rest of the PF. You can visibly see it and your fingernail will hit it if you run your finger along the finish (kind of like how auto details use their fingernail to judge the depth of a scratch). IMHO opinion this PF is defective. Whether others agree with that or not is up to them though but will skew the responses to the question at hand.

Reposting pics here for reference.

014e5d39caa2594044bae5dd5eec7fe7ab4520fc (resized).jpg3d2c5a7de0fd2c314f38074b1dffb8c2cfad1aa6 (resized).jpg

#5327 31 days ago
Quoted from 85vett:

I think it will be up to your definition of a PF issue. I see that a couple people disagree with my definition based off a previous post, which is fine as that is their right. But, I still define a game with PF issues as one without a smooth finish. I haven't heard or seen of anyone with a 2020 PF having pooling issue and I doubt we will since the clear has been significantly reduced. Not 2020 but my December 13th, 2019 DP PF has a very wavy and grainy finish and 100% of the inserts are slightly above the rest of the PF. You can visibly see it and your fingernail will hit it if you run your finger along the finish (kind of like how auto details use their fingernail to judge the depth of a scratch). IMHO opinion this PF is defective. Whether others agree with that or not is up to them though but will skew the responses to the question at hand.
Reposting pics here for reference.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Raised inserts and graining effect remind me a lot of a humidity issue. Wood shrinking would do both. Is the wood not dry enough at the time of processing?

#5328 31 days ago

Honestly not sure. My maiden PF looks exactly the same. I don't know if it was in the sanding process or if the wood was still holding moister. Does seem to be random though as I've seen a lot of beautiful PF's coming out as well. I've heard talk about multiple mfg's making the PF's which would make sense as it does seem to be batch to batch on if you get the grain effect or a smooth PF.

#5329 31 days ago

I had a red Spiderman that had the grain effect, but it was only noticeable with a direct light shining on it and at an angle. The raised inserts would bother me though. Not only would it impact ball movement, but over time, I could see it chipping the insert itself. I was under the impression that the entire playfield was sanded after the inserts were glued in. Is this not true?

What did Stern or your distro say when you brought this up to them?

#5330 31 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

What was the build date of your game?
Anyone have anything made in 2020 that still has PF problems?

Mines really early, I forget the date. August 2019 I believe

#5331 31 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

I had a red Spiderman that had the grain effect, but it was only noticeable with a direct light shining on it and at an angle. The raised inserts would bother me though. Not only would it impact ball movement, but over time, I could see it chipping the insert itself. I was under the impression that the entire playfield was sanded after the inserts were glued in. Is this not true?
What did Stern or your distro say when you brought this up to them?

I bought Maiden through the rewards program so I've king of felt guilty complaining about it since I already got a good discount on it NIB. That's probably not the right mentality but it's how I've lived with it. I got DP after Maiden and my DP has been quite a bit of a lemon. At 248 plays I had a 2 inch section worn to the wood and 2 other spots already into the primer. I'm also on my 4th CPU (fingers crossed this one is the last as I think the issue is resolved) as well as a couple other minor issues. I bought DP through my normal distributor and he's been helping the whole way. I don't really want to air to much dirty laundry with the game or the process to get where I'm at now so I'll leave it with he's doing his best to make things right and I'm confident we will get there.

#5332 30 days ago
Quoted from 85vett:

I bought Maiden through the rewards program so I've king of felt guilty complaining about it since I already got a good discount on it NIB. That's probably not the right mentality but it's how I've lived with it. I got DP after Maiden and my DP has been quite a bit of a lemon. At 248 plays I had a 2 inch section worn to the wood and 2 other spots already into the primer. I'm also on my 4th CPU (fingers crossed this one is the last as I think the issue is resolved) as well as a couple other minor issues. I bought DP through my normal distributor and he's been helping the whole way. I don't really want to air to much dirty laundry with the game or the process to get where I'm at now so I'll leave it with he's doing his best to make things right and I'm confident we will get there.

Whoa! You wouldn't even see old lacquered playfields wear to the wood that quick. That's crazy and sad!

#5333 30 days ago
Quoted from 85vett:

I bought Maiden through the rewards program so I've king of felt guilty complaining about it since I already got a good discount on it NIB. That's probably not the right mentality but it's how I've lived with it. I got DP after Maiden and my DP has been quite a bit of a lemon. At 248 plays I had a 2 inch section worn to the wood and 2 other spots already into the primer. I'm also on my 4th CPU (fingers crossed this one is the last as I think the issue is resolved) as well as a couple other minor issues. I bought DP through my normal distributor and he's been helping the whole way. I don't really want to air to much dirty laundry with the game or the process to get where I'm at now so I'll leave it with he's doing his best to make things right and I'm confident we will get there.

Rewards program or not, you're still spending hard earned money to buy that game. If its worn down to the wood, that's a problem.

#5334 30 days ago

My maiden isn't worn. It just has the same clear and insert problem my replacement deadpool playfield has.

We believe deadpool sustained the damage it did (to break into wood) from an improperly installed ramp where they also forgot the mylar. The other two spots are bumps (like you would get from to long of a screw) to the left of the little deadpool shot that get hit hard by the ball when making a wolverine or snikt shot.

#5335 30 days ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Oh great I can’t wait!
I’m the 6’1” 235 lbs of pissed off sob,raised in an orphanage in the 70’s

You are even more childish with each post. Stop. Put the booze down. Take a walk. Grow up.

#5336 30 days ago
Quoted from shaub:

Yeah, its a tough line to walk. If no one buys their games, then there are none on the resale market and there's no way that buyer confidence is restored. On the other hand, if we keep buying, they lack the incentive to take the necessary steps to ensure that buyer confidence is restored. Meanwhile, all we want is fun machines with a high build quality.
I guess that's why true competition is absolutely essential, then maybe we could get what we want AND send the right message to those that need to hear it.

The thing is most, if not all people would, pay an extra 100 bucks if Stern used high quality wood/clear so we wouldnt have to worry about these issues. They wont, but have the balls to charge 600 for a POS topper. Doesnt make sense, but Gary is retiring soon and dgaf.

#5337 30 days ago
Quoted from 85vett:

I bought Maiden through the rewards program so I've king of felt guilty complaining about it since I already got a good discount on it NIB. That's probably not the right mentality but it's how I've lived with it. I got DP after Maiden and my DP has been quite a bit of a lemon. At 248 plays I had a 2 inch section worn to the wood and 2 other spots already into the primer. I'm also on my 4th CPU (fingers crossed this one is the last as I think the issue is resolved) as well as a couple other minor issues. I bought DP through my normal distributor and he's been helping the whole way. I don't really want to air to much dirty laundry with the game or the process to get where I'm at now so I'll leave it with he's doing his best to make things right and I'm confident we will get there.

Can a pin be lemon lawed.

1 week later
#5338 22 days ago

PF from Dec. 2019 with 1500 games so far.
What do you think? I am not amused.

#5339 22 days ago
Quoted from Prodoshi:

PF from Dec. 2019 with 1500 games so far.
What do you think? I am not amused.

Question 1: Is the dimpling visible with the glass on from the playing position?

Question 2: Is the flow of the ball being disrupted by pf pitting?

If the answer is "no" to both of those questions, then no biggie from my perspective.

#5340 22 days ago
Quoted from Prodoshi:

What do you think?

2 things :

pity quality (may vary but with what ? luck ?)
and mainwhile few are still saying PF problems are behind & resolved, we can see this is simply not true, nothing has changed :/ even if dimpling is still considered as "normal" (its a ball of steel on a wood/clearcoat plateform)

now, as Mike said above...
and even more, what if we want to have a pin home !? may be not buy NIB and go for a HUO which is OK...

my Oktoberfest has quite no dimpling, only few under the ramp where the ball was falling/jumping with speed/power, due to the slope, else it seems more than perfect

#5341 22 days ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Question 1: Is the dimpling visible with the glass on from the playing position?
Question 2: Is the flow of the ball being disrupted by pf pitting?
If the answer is "no" to both of those questions, then no biggie from my perspective.

the glass is on, its invi glass. thats why you see a second darker reflection of the lamp.
and the reason why i'm showing this is, because cratering is getting worse and worse and its not ok.
they said it will "even out" over time... that was a lie. here is an image from my perspective with glass on.
when moving the head you see all those craters appearing.
i dont play in a dark room, in this case i wouldn't see a dimple of course...
i want to keep records of this and people can decide on their own if they bother.

of course it also affects the ball. a ball rolls faster on a smooth PF and a spinning ball will having a different grip on different surfaces.
raised inserts can affect slow balls, but thats not the thing here since i never noticed it and i can wax the PF if i want more speed.
click on the image, the preview affects the contrast...
IMG_20200620_23110932 (resized).jpg

#5343 22 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Report back when it has 10k plays.

why is this relevant? you want to know if its evening out? some people even never get to 1500 plays
i am not sure if i will keep it that long, if so- i'll do so.

#5344 22 days ago
Quoted from Prodoshi:

the glass is on, its invi glass. thats why you see a second darker reflection of the lamp.
and the reason why i'm showing this is, because cratering is getting worse and worse and its not ok.
they said it will "even out" over time... that was a lie. here is an image from my perspective with glass on.
when moving the head you see all those craters appearing.
i dont play in a dark room, in this case i wouldn't see a dimple of course...
i want to keep records of this and people can decide on their own if they bother.
of course it also affects the ball. a ball rolls faster on a smooth PF and a spinning ball will having a different grip on different surfaces.
raised inserts can affect slow balls, but thats not the thing here since i never noticed it and i can wax the PF if i want more speed.
click on the image, the preview affects the contrast...
[quoted image]

Well, I wasn't asking for a physics lesson, I was really asking whether or not you "felt" like the ball speed or play was any different, or that the path of the ball was being affected. You've indicated that you haven't noticed anything, so that's good.

However, you can apparently see dimpling from a playing position. For me, even though the dimples can be seen from certain angles, and in certain light, it doesn't bother me. But I can respect that it does bother a lot of other people. As far as I'm concerned, that's just how pinball is at this point. Even Kaneda had to admit that all playfields dimple, and to a point you just have to accept it and move on. Otherwise you'll drive yourself insane with OCD.

So is this normal? I don't know. I would say that it's the new normal, and has been so for a while now. Dimples don't bother me, it's insert problems, pooling, chipping, and premature wear through the clear and paint that concerns me.

#5345 21 days ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Well, I wasn't asking for a physics lesson, I was really asking whether or not you "felt" like the ball speed or play was any different, or that the path of the ball was being affected. You've indicated that you haven't noticed anything, so that's good.
However, you can apparently see dimpling from a playing position. For me, even though the dimples can be seen from certain angles, and in certain light, it doesn't bother me. But I can respect that it does bother a lot of other people. As far as I'm concerned, that's just how pinball is at this point. Even Kaneda had to admit that all playfields dimple, and to a point you just have to accept it and move on. Otherwise you'll drive yourself insane with OCD.
So is this normal? I don't know. I would say that it's the new normal, and has been so for a while now. Dimples don't bother me, it's insert problems, pooling, chipping, and premature wear through the clear and paint that concerns me.

Its the new normal for Stern games....not the new normal for my CGC or JJP games....they all have a few dimples, but not even close to the pic above.

#5346 21 days ago
Quoted from Prodoshi:

why is this relevant? you want to know if its evening out? some people even never get to 1500 plays
i am not sure if i will keep it that long, if so- i'll do so.

Nope. I know that your game plays fine now. I want to see if it plays fine after 10k plays.

#5347 21 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Its the new normal for Stern games....not the new normal for my CGC or JJP games....they all have a few dimples, but not even close to the pic above.

My AFMR is a dimple fest, almost the worst I’ve seen

#5348 21 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Report back when it has 10k plays.

Why? I'm curious what your thought process is with this and where you're going with it.

Quoted from chuckwurt:

Nope. I know that your game plays fine now. I want to see if it plays fine after 10k plays.

So you're saying it looking like shit is perfectly fine? I know I've asked you this before, but are you POSITIVE you don't work for stern (and if not, why not?)?

#5349 21 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Its the new normal for Stern games....not the new normal for my CGC or JJP games....they all have a few dimples, but not even close to the pic above.

I only own three pins at the moment, all of which are JJP. None of them look remotely like this. I really want a few stern machines, but am scared of the playfields. I'm super sorry to hear afm remake has the same issue, as I was leaning towards that hoping the quality would be better.

#5350 21 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

So you're saying it looking like shit is perfectly fine? I know I've asked you this before, but are you POSITIVE you don't work for stern (and if not, why not?)?

My game looks like this and plays fine. That’s the only point I’m trying to make. Plenty of info out there that it’s is common for NIB games.

If it’s something you don’t like, don’t buy new games.

I’ll say it again. I don’t work for stern. Did you miss that last time?

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