(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

9 months ago



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There are 5311 posts in this topic. You are on page 106 of 107.
#5251 11 days ago
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#5252 11 days ago

All this bullshit because I factually stated the JJP had fixed their playfield problems as of October 2019!

#5253 11 days ago
Quoted from romulusx:

All this bullshit because I factually stated the JJP had fixed their playfield problems as of October 2019!

I believe your statement is bullshit because JJP hasn’t publicly addressed it. Have they?
Few of the companies in this industry handle their various issues like a well run, properly funded company.

And Stern has their own pile of wood to chop in the arena of customer service.

If JJP has made a public statement to all of their customers regarding the rectification of their playfield issues, I apologize.

#5254 11 days ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

I believe your statement is bullshit because JJP hasn’t publicly addressed it. Have they?
Few of the companies in this industry handle their various issues like a well run, properly funded company.
And Stern has their own pile of wood to chop in the arena of customer service.
If JJP has made a public statement to all of their customers regarding the rectification of their playfield issues, I apologize.

Yeah they did. At one of the shows Jack was asked and he said it's resolved. He declined to elaborate.

And newer games, like the Wonka CEs, have consistently been reported as fine.

Time to find a new axe to grind.

#5255 11 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Yeah they did. At one of the shows Jack was asked and he said it's resolved. He declined to elaborate.
And newer games, like the Wonka CEs, have consistently been reported as fine.
Time to find a new axe to grind.

You know, for a guy selling $8000+ starting level pinball machines, SURE would be nice to have that in writing somewhere.

Same goes for Stern.

Not calling you a liar. I am saying that there is no accountability nor veracity without seeing it on video or in writing.

But then again, some people just LOVE playing their pinball machines while the art breaks off. God knows I don't.

#5256 11 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Yeah they did. At one of the shoes Jack was asked and he said it's resolved. He declined to elaborate.
And newer games, like the Wonka CEs, have consistently been reported as fine.
Time to find a new axe to grind.

Thanks, but nothing in writing. That’s JJP and pinball as a whole for you.
In this hobby, there are always plenty of axes to grind.

When I first graduated college, I worked for Don King for a few years and he’s got nothing on some of these people in the pinball industry.

#5257 11 days ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Thanks, but nothing in writing. That’s JJP and pinball as a whole for you.
In this hobby, there are always plenty of axes to grind.
When I first graduated college, I worked for Don King for a few years and he’s got nothing on some of these people in the pinball industry.

None of these companies do enough to be transparent or give information in a realized way.

JJP is seemingly starting a weekly podcast. So hopefully Ken Cromwell gets some of this info rolling a more smoothly for them than it had been prior to his hire.

https://twitter.com/JJPinball/status/1263503054537666562?s=19

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#5258 11 days ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Another problem, like Law pointed out, is what if Stern makes that license pin you have been wanting? Or finally makes the vault you have been waiting for...or JJP's GNR is amazing!
It will be hard to resist....but...must...resiiiiiiiii - "So, anyone know a good distributor in my area?"
Like Gleason said "You can think about it....but DON'T do it!"

Easy resist for me....especially knowing JJP abandoned POTC support....I sent them another email today asking the status and my response was .... going from someone who has owned most of their machines its a pretty bad sign when u get responses like this....

"Good Evening"

"Production for the needed wire form are not being produced at this time"

#5259 11 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Yeah they did. At one of the shows Jack was asked and he said it's resolved. He declined to elaborate.

I’m sorry, I asked Jack the question at TPF and gave him an absolute softball. Instead of taking the opportunity to address a significant concern of many he gave a non-answer that was an insult to any JJP customer or potential customer. I was (and still am) very disappointed in him for failing to step up.

#5260 11 days ago
Quoted from jfh:

I’m sorry, I asked Jack the question at TPF and gave him an absolute softball. Instead of taking the opportunity to address a significant concern of many he gave a non-answer that was an insult to any JJP customer or potential customer. I was (and still am) very disappointed in him for failing to step up.

Oh man, I remember that.

It was a very basic question, and he didn't seem happy to answer in any way whatsoever.

I doubt he has much say in anything he can say, outside certain guidelines, at this point. Sadly.

#5261 11 days ago
Quoted from jfh:

I’m sorry, I asked Jack the question at TPF and gave him an absolute softball. Instead of taking the opportunity to address a significant concern of many he gave a non-answer that was an insult to any JJP customer or potential customer. I was (and still am) very disappointed in him for failing to step up.

And there is the truth.

#5262 11 days ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

And there is the truth.

If you would listen,what we’re saying is the playfields after October 2019 are good are far as owners like myself and zaphx who had the bad first run SE’s and then my SE was replaced with a second run which is flawless and Zaphx sold his SE and purchased a second run LE and his is great too.
We’re not saying Jack apologized and made all early adaptor whole with replacements.We’re just saying the new playfields are good
This is my last time addressing this subject

#5263 11 days ago
Quoted from romulusx:

If you would listen,what we’re saying is the playfields after October 2019 are good are far as owners like myself and zaphx who had the bad first run SE’s and then my SE was replaced with a second run which is flawless and Zaphx sold his SE and purchased a second run LE and his is great too.
We’re not saying Jack apologized and made all early adaptor whole with replacements.We’re just saying the new playfields are good
This is my last time addressing this subject

Thanks. I’m done too.

#5264 11 days ago

Since people were bitching about playfields and hating on jjp, one thing I noticed today. My jjp playfields have no dimples. My sterns in the past always got a ton. I never super cared about dimples, but noticed my jjps simply don't get those. It seems that nobody talks about that?

#5265 11 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

Since people were bitching about playfields and hating on jjp, one thing I noticed today. My jjp playfields have no dimples. My sterns in the past always got a ton. I never super cared about dimples, but noticed my jjps simply don't get those. It seems that nobody talks about that?

My Sterns and my Smaug have dimpling, but you have to look for it. I don’t have the huge cratering that some Stern buyers have been left to deal with.

#5266 11 days ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

My Sterns and my Smaug have dimpling, but you have to look for it. I don’t have the huge cratering that some Stern buyers have been left to deal with.

I've had really good luck with play fields on all my JJP games....most dimple a little, but not nearly as much as my Sterns....although my LOTR LE has zero dimples...yes zero...

#5267 11 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I've had really good luck with play fields on all my JJP games....most dimple a little, but not nearly as much as my Sterns....although my LOTR LE has zero dimples...yes zero...

The good old days!

#5268 11 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

Since people were bitching about playfields and hating on jjp, one thing I noticed today. My jjp playfields have no dimples. My sterns in the past always got a ton. I never super cared about dimples, but noticed my jjps simply don't get those. It seems that nobody talks about that?

I only have two JJP’s and the rest of my collection are 90’s B/W.My DILE and Wonka Se are without dimples also.My B/W’s aren’t dimpled but some have alittle wood checking

#5269 11 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

Since people were bitching about playfields and hating on jjp, one thing I noticed today. My jjp playfields have no dimples. My sterns in the past always got a ton. I never super cared about dimples, but noticed my jjps simply don't get those. It seems that nobody talks about that?

My Pirates does.

#5270 11 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Yeah they did. At one of the shows Jack was asked and he said it's resolved. He declined to elaborate.
And newer games, like the Wonka CEs, have consistently been reported as fine.
Time to find a new axe to grind.

Here's where Jack was asked about it at 2019 Expo. Fast forward to 52:25 into the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3174&v=vdNMZ2cjCV0&feature=emb_logo

#5271 11 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

My Pirates does.

interesting as mine has none....although I only have 120 game plays....its amazing to me the crap shoot buyers get with these play fields.

#5272 11 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

The good old days!

Yep....

#5273 11 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

interesting as mine has none....although I only have 120 game plays....its amazing to me the crap shoot buyers get with these play fields.

Well that’s why you have no dimples, you haven’t played it.

I put that many games on a machine every weekend.

#5274 11 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Well that’s why you have no dimples, you haven’t played it.
I put that many games on a machine every weekend.

Well yes and no....my Sterns had dimples all over the place after 50 plays....Mad respect for how many games u can play in a day.....I'm usually done after 5-10....I put 20 on my IJ over the weekend, and that was a lot

#5275 11 days ago

The wife and I play daily for at least an hour. The hope is that with enough repetition I’ll eventually gain some skills

#5276 11 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

The wife and I play daily for at least an hour. The hope is that with enough repetition I’ll eventually gain some skills

That’s impressive. My wife and kids ignore the pinball machines, but love the Chexx and Pac-Man machines.

#5277 10 days ago
Quoted from EaglePin:

Here's where Jack was asked about it at 2019 Expo. Fast forward to 52:25 into the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3174&v=vdNMZ2cjCV0&feature=emb_logo

Wow....what a smug arrogant response....

#5278 10 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

My Pirates does.

You have to actually play the game before it will dimple.

#5279 10 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Wow....what a smug arrogant response....

That is not the response you would expect from someone selling 10K toys?

#5280 10 days ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

That is not the response you would expect from someone selling 10K toys?

Frankly its a joke....the problem is JJP can't afford to do anything when they have big issues so you roll the dice with their pins....Stern on the other hand has the resources to do something, but its a crap shoot on whether they will or not.....

#5281 10 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Frankly its a joke....the problem is JJP can't afford to do anything when they have big issues so you roll the dice with their pins....Stern on the other hand has the resources to do something, but its a crap shoot on whether they will or not.....

And at these prices, it’s inexcusable.

#5282 10 days ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

And at these prices, it’s inexcusable.

As are Sterns as their LE's are essentially the same price as JJP LE's....

#5283 10 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

As are Sterns as their LE's are essentially the same price as JJP LE's....

But with those, you KNOW you're getting sub par quality... so that's sorta nice, I guess. Certainty. And before you cry about this post, I'm not arbitrarily bashing them because I hate them. I've owned and love many stern, and intend to buy more. I just wish to god their quality was better.

#5284 10 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

But with those, you KNOW you're getting sub par quality... so that's sorta nice, I guess. Certainty. And before you cry about this post, I'm not arbitrarily bashing them because I hate them. I've owned and love many stern, and intend to buy more. I just wish to god their quality was better.

I remember your Star Trek pro issues.

#5285 10 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

But with those, you KNOW you're getting sub par quality... so that's sorta nice, I guess. Certainty. And before you cry about this post, I'm not arbitrarily bashing them because I hate them. I've owned and love many stern, and intend to buy more. I just wish to god their quality was better.

I can’t argue with you. Stern builds a lot of crap.

#5286 10 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

But with those, you KNOW you're getting sub par quality... so that's sorta nice, I guess. Certainty. And before you cry about this post, I'm not arbitrarily bashing them because I hate them. I've owned and love many stern, and intend to buy more. I just wish to god their quality was better.

Good point....

1 week later
#5287 3 days ago

Well I just heard back from Stern about my playfield. They will send me an unpopulated playfield. Do y’all think I should press for a populated playfield or just take what I can get? I am grateful for whatever but it would be nice to get a playfield I can actually replace myself.

#5288 3 days ago
Quoted from RikeIsland:

Well I just heard back from Stern about my playfield. They will send me an unpopulated playfield. Do y’all think I should press for a populated playfield or just take what I can get? I am grateful for whatever but it would be nice to get a playfield I can actually replace myself.

Good question.

#5289 3 days ago

I haven’t heard of them sending out populated playfields in a long time, but worth a shot.

#5290 3 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:I haven’t heard of them sending out populated playfields in a long time, but worth a shot.

I figured it wouldn’t hurt to ask.

#5291 2 days ago

Imagine a company sending out a gearbox or clutch or something to replace a defective one and saying “there you go, have at it!”.

For your average consumer replacing a populated playfield would be a intimidating task, disconnecting the loom, pulling out the old playfield etc. Expecting an average consumer to be able to do a proper playfield swap is just ridiculous.

#5292 2 days ago
Quoted from Durzel:

Imagine a company sending out a gearbox or clutch or something to replace a defective one and saying “there you go, have at it!”.
For your average consumer replacing a populated playfield would be a intimidating task, disconnecting the loom, pulling out the old playfield etc. Expecting an average consumer to be able to do a proper playfield swap is just ridiculous.

That is true but when a car manufacturer has a defect or a recall they take care of the consumer. I am not demanding anything I am just hoping for the best especially when spending this amount of money. Pulling a Populated playfield out And putting another in is a lot easier then populating one. So far I am very happy with what Stern has done. They don’t have to do anything for me but like I said it never hurts to ask.

#5293 2 days ago
Quoted from Durzel:

Imagine a company sending out a gearbox or clutch or something to replace a defective one and saying “there you go, have at it!”.
For your average consumer replacing a populated playfield would be a intimidating task, disconnecting the loom, pulling out the old playfield etc. Expecting an average consumer to be able to do a proper playfield swap is just ridiculous.

I was about to go all in on a stern tmnt, then was reminded its basically a gamble. Hell I just canceled a cgc mmre order because there’s been issues that multiple people have shown with them. I get there’s always issues, but these “toys” are big money and manufacturers lack responsibility, but people are still willing to lose out. This will change when the economy keeps getting beat.

#5294 2 days ago
Quoted from snaroff:

As you say, it's the "sum" of all the BS that hurts. Cheap Spike components (CPU, node boards, fans, power supplies), shoddy craftsmanship on the PF's, and small stuff like coil stops that break after 100 plays. When I open the hood on my LOTR (Whitestar) and TRON (SAM), it reminds me of how solid these Stern platforms were. Worst of all, if the cheap CPU dies and you aren't under warranty, it's far from cheap! https://littleshopofgames.com/shop/boards/stern-boards/stern-spike-ii-spike-2-60hz-cpu-node-board-for-pinball-machine-509-1003-01/
$879 for a CPU board that likely costs Stern $80-$100...now that's markup!

SAM boards are not cheap if you can find them. Are SAM board « easy » to repair if possible?

#5295 1 day ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

I was about to go all in on a stern tmnt, then was reminded its basically a gamble. Hell I just canceled a cgc mmre order because there’s been issues that multiple people have shown with them. I get there’s always issues, but these “toys” are big money and manufacturers lack responsibility, but people are still willing to lose out. This will change when the economy keeps getting beat.

IMO, if you know typical production variation things will bother you, like the amount of playfield graining, clearcoat thickness or cratering, for example, it's better to buy used and see what you're getting.

Some people don't notice or care about those things so NIB can be a fun experience with less risk.

#5296 1 day ago
Quoted from Durzel:

Imagine a company sending out a gearbox or clutch or something to replace a defective one and saying “there you go, have at it!”.
For your average consumer replacing a populated playfield would be a intimidating task, disconnecting the loom, pulling out the old playfield etc. Expecting an average consumer to be able to do a proper playfield swap is just ridiculous.

Yeah but who is going to do a playfield swap? It's not like there are pinball repair shops all over town. Pinball machines are not really designed for the average consumer either. These problems are not affecting the way games operate. They still flip fine and can earn money on route. Stern could send you a whole brand new pin but that just seems excessive in cases where there is just a bit of pooling.

#5297 20 hours ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

I remember your Star Trek pro issues.

As do I. As do I.

Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

I was about to go all in on a stern tmnt, then was reminded its basically a gamble.

I've all but decided to get an TMNT, but will wait to see how the playfields pan out.

#5298 20 hours ago

So Ive tried to skim this thread to see where these playfield issues are at but I'm hoping someone can catch me up.

Did removing art from around the posts on JP solve the issues people were having? or are those playfields still having problems as well? I notice that TMNT is missing the art there so Im hoping that's a positive sign...

Thanks.

#5299 20 hours ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

I was about to go all in on a stern tmnt, then was reminded its basically a gamble. Hell I just canceled a cgc mmre order because there’s been issues that multiple people have shown with them. I get there’s always issues, but these “toys” are big money and manufacturers lack responsibility, but people are still willing to lose out. This will change when the economy keeps getting beat.

The quality control lottery sucks and none of should have to play it at these prices. Every time we buy a new game we are rolling the dice with whether or not the game will be without major issues. Personally I think it's best to wait 6 months for any NIB purchase, and let the early buyers unfortunately deal with the issues. At the same time it sucks that quality issues have also occurred on reruns of games, such as the few playfield quality issues we've seen pop up on new $10k MMRE games. Hell, someone in this very thread was saying how they didn't have any playfield issues with their Stern games and now is encountering one with an MMRE.

#5300 20 hours ago
Quoted from shaub:

So Ive tried to skim this thread to see where these playfield issues are at but I'm hoping someone can catch me up.
Did removing art from around the posts on JP solve the issues people were having? or are those playfields still having problems as well? I notice that TMNT is missing the art there so Im hoping that's a positive sign...
Thanks.

There's speculation that Stern actually fixed the root cause of the problem with an adjustment to the clear / art adhesion process in addition to removing artwork around posts. However, others have said that Stern hasn't changed anything with the clear / art adhesion process and simply removed artwork around playfield posts. When it comes to quality issues Stern has never really been transparent so buyers are left wondering whether or not issues have truly been fixed.

I'll say this about JJP's playfield issues from last year. There were multiple reports of Pirates, and Wonka games with clear pooling and chipping issues. Those issues were resolved around October of 2019 and we haven't heard of newer build games with the same issue since then. JJP did not remove artwork around the posts on the newer playfields so I can only guess that the root cause of clear pooling / chipping was addressed. Did Stern do the same or just apply band-aid? Who knows.

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