(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

9 months ago



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There are 5286 posts in this topic. You are on page 101 of 106.
#5001 84 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

But what is important is when the was playfield made, not when the machine was assembled. You could have a machine assembled in November with a playfield made much earlier or not.

And I have the reverse situation, my JP Pro cabinet has a late September date and a newer playfield with thinner clear.

10
#5002 84 days ago

8 months later and I finally got my blank playfield from Stern. Have not bought anymore NIB games since.

#5003 83 days ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

8 months later and I finally got my blank playfield from Stern. Have not bought anymore NIB games since.

I'm glad to see they did something, however, the word "blank" in your post would have pissed me off. I'm not sure if I would settle for that or not. I'm still waiting for a response.

#5004 83 days ago

Stern has been screwing my friend around for 5 months now after committing to a populated playfield. They won't even give an idea of a date for when he may get his. Current excuse is "machines we are building right now are already sold". Well, TMNT is probably going to be on the line shortly, so that will lead to more excuses. Talking to a lawyer now to go over options.

#5005 83 days ago

Got my IMDN playfield, looks perfect.

11/6 first contact emailed Patrick Powers. After emailing every week he got back to me and requested pictures/serial number. Sent pics and waited. On 11/26 he notified me I was getting a new playfield. It was received yesterday. 4 months. I did email him from time to time asking for an update with no response.

One little chip and one pooling post. No big deal and I thought I'd get the brush off considering I wasn't the original buyer.

Playfield front and back look perfect. Predrilled and ready for a swap. Thank you Stern!

#5006 83 days ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Got my IMDN playfield, looks perfect.
11/6 first contact emailed Patrick Powers. After emailing every week he got back to me and requested pictures/serial number. Sent pics and waited. On 11/26 he notified me I was getting a new playfield. It was received yesterday. 4 months. I did email him from time to time asking for an update with no response.
One little chip and one pooling post. No big deal and I thought I'd get the brush off considering I wasn't the original buyer.
Playfield front and back look perfect. Predrilled and ready for a swap. Thank you Stern!

Pat stopped returning this persons emails and phone calls, which is part of the reason for the escalation.

#5007 83 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

You must have large pockets. Even if you’re dealing with hundreds that’s gotta be annoying carrying around 10k of 100 dollar bills.

I thought everyone did? Huh..

#5008 82 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Stern has been screwing my friend around for 5 months now after committing to a populated playfield. They won't even give an idea of a date for when he may get his. Current excuse is "machines we are building right now are already sold". Well, TMNT is probably going to be on the line shortly, so that will lead to more excuses. Talking to a lawyer now to go over options.

Stern is definitely not about customer service. All about money and greed.

Pinball needs a few more viable manufacturers to pressure Stern into significantly upping their game and to start giving a rat's ass about the lira customers. I hope Chicago Gaming branches out of just remakes. They have superior playfields and cabinets and could really pinch Stern if they became a competitor.

#5009 82 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Panzer will never mention anything bad about JJP because he is their biggest fanboy. JJP games dimple too, their clearcoat also chips and pools around the posts just like Sterns games. JJP is no better at all, even with their outrageous prices and how they boast about being the highest quality games made. Its simply not true and Jack wont stand behind his product either.

Who-Dey you are a Stern Fanboy for sure.
PanzerFreak you are a JJP Fanboy for sure.

You guys need to do this!

#5010 82 days ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I'm glad to see they did something, however, the word "blank" in your post would have pissed me off. I'm not sure if I would settle for that or not. I'm still waiting for a response.

Tried. The first time they offered the blank playfield I refused. Had to send in many more photos of the issues. After two months they still refused to provide me with a populated playfield. You will most likely not be receiving a populated playfield despite you paying thousands for a NIB game. I also sent in photos of my NIB AC/DC Vault which had paint chips. They refused to give me anything for it due to the warranty expiring. I have since held off on a Jurassic Park, which I really want. At this point I will never buy anymore NIB games from Stern.

#5011 82 days ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

Who-Dey you are a Stern Fanboy for sure

Not so much anymore. I love their games but not their quality.

#5012 82 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Not so much anymore. I love their games but not their quality.

Currently you are an AdmirerMan. Self demoted from Fanboy.

25
#5013 82 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

Currently you are an AdmirerMan. Self demoted from Fanboy.

I'm a man with money to spend on a new JP or Elvira 3 that's afraid to buy one.

11
#5014 82 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I'm a man with money to spend on a new JP or Elvira 3 that's afraid to buy one.

To tell you the truth I’m afraid as well. Stern and JJP. A lot of $ to spend to get something with playfield issues. I don’t have to buy new. Used is perfectly fine. That way I can inspect it before I buy and save $ as well.

#5015 82 days ago

Same. R&M likely is the first and last new game I will buy. I don't have to take the "hit" on new games (most aren't worth more than they sold for originally) and then I know how well the game was made, let someone else deal with that. Seems like Spooky is doing it up right, I'd buy another one from them after seeing their product in action.

#5016 81 days ago

+1 here...

RFM is gone, leaving a freeplace, and i got money (previously from my DI gone too) to go for something new (JP PREM is really what i want)

as a man (lol) my d*ck is saying GO FOR IT ! NOW !!!
but as said already, my brain is cooling down and saying WAIT, WAIT & WAIT (for some HUO)

#5017 80 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

That's my concern as well. It seems like Stern didn't change anything with their playfield clear process but instead simply removed artwork around playfield posts to prevent chipping. We are still seeing Stern playfields dimple more severely than ever before, hence the mini moon crater comments.
If other smaller companies can produce better quality playfields then there's no excuse for Stern not to match or exceed that quality. Stern should want to do that if they claim to take pride in the products they build. Why wouldn't Stern want to put out a better quality playfield after numerous price increases and other cost cutting moves?
Overall it's hard to want to buy a $6k-$9k+ product from a company that is basically taking a "We don't give a crap about quality" stance. Every other pinball company out there but Stern seems to care more about product quality.

From the newer games I've seen they are also using a lot thinner clear-coat. You can see the outlines of the inserts and such when viewed at the correct angle. This appears to be similar to older Sterns like my Tron. The older playfields like this have held up very well, though I do find the insert outlines a little less appealing than the thick clear we have become used to in recent years.

My main concern is that over the last 4 years or so there have been intermittent playfield issues with no apparent ryhme or reason, and certainly no explanation from Stern. So I've bought 3 NiB Sterns since 2016 and 2 of them have had premature/rapid clearcoat chipping issues. It's waay to much of a lottery in my opinion in terms of what you are going to get.

#5018 80 days ago
Quoted from Fytr:

From the newer games I've seen they are also using a lot thinner clear-coat. You can see the outlines of the inserts and such when viewed at the correct angle. This appears to be similar to older Sterns like my Tron. The older playfields like this have held up very well, though I do find the insert outlines a little less appealing than the thick clear we have become used to in recent years.
My main concern is that over the last 4 years or so there have been intermittent playfield issues with no apparent ryhme or reason, and certainly no explanation from Stern. So I've bought 3 NiB Sterns since 2016 and 2 of them have had premature/rapid clearcoat chipping issues. It's waay to much of a lottery in my opinion in terms of what you are going to get.

Yep I agree. I have money saved for a new game but I'm afraid to buy right now.

#5019 80 days ago
Quoted from Fytr:

From the newer games I've seen they are also using a lot thinner clear-coat. You can see the outlines of the inserts and such when viewed at the correct angle. This appears to be similar to older Sterns like my Tron. The older playfields like this have held up very well, though I do find the insert outlines a little less appealing than the thick clear we have become used to in recent years.
My main concern is that over the last 4 years or so there have been intermittent playfield issues with no apparent ryhme or reason, and certainly no explanation from Stern. So I've bought 3 NiB Sterns since 2016 and 2 of them have had premature/rapid clearcoat chipping issues. It's waay to much of a lottery in my opinion in terms of what you are going to get.

There is rhyme and reason.

In 2016 when Stern had the GB issues this was right around the time Stern decided to stop using Churchill cabinets and playfields for playfield supply.

In 2019 when Stern had playfield issues right around the time Stern moved part of the playfield production to their factory.

Making decent playfields is a difficult process. Mucking around with the process or supplier is going to cause issues.

#5020 80 days ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

There is rhyme and reason.
In 2016 when Stern had the GB issues this was right around the time Stern decided to stop using Churchill cabinets and playfields for playfield supply.
In 2019 when Stern had playfield issues right around the time Stern moved part of the playfield production to their factory.
Making decent playfields is a difficult process. Mucking around with the process or supplier is going to cause issues.

That may be true but it is also pure conjecture. Stern has never said as much and probably never will. As a customer with “poor luck” I’m left assume that problems could arise at any time.

#5021 80 days ago

Wish Stern would do something similar to Haggis and just end all this crap. I’m interested in TMNT, but tired of these cheap playfields. If Deeproot delivers, it will be nice to have some more competition.

#5022 79 days ago
Quoted from SkillShot:

Wish Stern would do something similar to Haggis and just end all this crap. I’m interested in TMNT, but tired of these cheap playfields. If Deeproot delivers, it will be nice to have some more competition.

I love how everyone thinks the Haggis solution is some pinball altering invention already. Not one of their machines is out in the real world getting beat on day in and day out. A lot of time needs to pass to see how well those machines hold up before we decide that the Haggis playfield is the benchmark of quality. The plastic is held on by tape at the moment, for crying out loud. Just because it does not dimple does not mean the finish is going to stay bright and shiny. One operator who leaves a ball in too long is going to scratch the hell out of that plastic permanently. Plastic is much softer than clear coat, and you are going to play hell buffing out ball tracks from orbits and whatnot.

#5023 79 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I love how everyone thinks the Haggis solution is some pinball altering invention already. Not one of their machines is out in the real world getting beat on day in and day out. A lot of time needs to pass to see how well those machines hold up before we decide that the Haggis playfield is the benchmark of quality. The plastic is held on by tape at the moment, for crying out loud. Just because it does not dimple does not mean the finish is going to stay bright and shiny. One operator who leaves a ball in too long is going to scratch the hell out of that plastic permanently. Plastic is much softer than clear coat, and you are going to play hell buffing out ball tracks from orbits and whatnot.

They switched to holding it down with hardware... but now their design requires everything to be through hole. No screwing into the top of the PF. That will be a challenge in its own -- finding space for T-nut everything or washers, etc.

But agree - what we have right now is a good sounding concept - actually seeing it completed, VETTED, and sustainability/suitability for other games is needed before crowning any concept the king.

#5024 79 days ago
Quoted from SkillShot:

Wish Stern would do something similar to Haggis and just end all this crap..

Good point. By producing only novelty videos of people love-tapping plexiglass "playfields" with home-improvement tools, and not actually making pinball machines, Stern indeed would "just end all this crap."

#5025 79 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I love how everyone thinks the Haggis solution is some pinball altering invention already. Not one of their machines is out in the real world getting beat on day in and day out. A lot of time needs to pass to see how well those machines hold up before we decide that the Haggis playfield is the benchmark of quality. The plastic is held on by tape at the moment, for crying out loud. Just because it does not dimple does not mean the finish is going to stay bright and shiny. One operator who leaves a ball in too long is going to scratch the hell out of that plastic permanently. Plastic is much softer than clear coat, and you are going to play hell buffing out ball tracks from orbits and whatnot.

So is there any general consensus as to how a "hardtop" holds up in a location setting?
In general, what Haggis is showing is really just a new "harder" hardtop system (using a scratch-resistant acrylic rather than whatever plastic the hardtops use).

Do the hardtops have problems with ball tracks or not staying "bright and shiny"?

#5026 79 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

So is there any general consensus as to how a "hardtop" holds up in a location setting?
In general, what Haggis is showing is really just a new "harder" hardtop system (using a scratch-resistant acrylic rather than whatever plastic the hardtops use).
Do the hardtops have problems with ball tracks or not staying "bright and shiny"?

My Victory is Vitrograph, which is basically the same thing. I haven't been able to make the high ball travel portion like the left orbit as shiny as the surrounding area yet. Acrylic or PETG, either way...once the dirt is embedded in it, you are going to play hell getting it out. Automotive clear is much harder and more resistant to the same thing.

#5027 79 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

My Victory is Vitrograph, which is basically the same thing. I haven't been able to make the high ball travel portion like the left orbit as shiny as the surrounding area yet. Acrylic or PETG, either way...once the dirt is embedded in it, you are going to play hell getting it out. Automotive clear is much harder and more resistant to the same thing.

My IJ had dirt ball trails all the way down to the paint in the outer loop path. "Diamond coat" my ass!

#5028 79 days ago

If people are planning on keeping games long term. Looks like playfield protectors are going to start becoming mandatory

3 weeks later
#5029 55 days ago

Something good happened yesterday. There is was, tinkering away on a whitewater in the garage, when my son comes in and says there is a package here for you. I haven't ordered anything so I wasn't sure what he was talking about...

New Wonka playfield showed up. Just like I read on here from somebody elses post. No response, email, or any kind of notice.

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#5030 55 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Good point. By producing only novelty videos of people love-tapping plexiglass "playfields" with home-improvement tools, and not actually making pinball machines, Stern indeed would "just end all this crap."

A mm sheet of lexan would more then suffice. The nhl uses 8mm lexan and thats more then enough to stop pucks and multiple bodies smashing into it.

#5031 55 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

A mm sheet of lexan would more then suffice. The nhl uses 8mm lexan and thats more then enough to stop pucks and multiple bodies smashing into it.

Hockey glass is plexiglass (acrylic), not lexan (polycarbonate). Lexan would scratch too easy and the clarity isn't that good to began with.

#5032 55 days ago
Quoted from RJW:

Hockey glass is plexiglass (acrylic), not lexan (polycarbonate). Lexan would scratch too easy and the clarity isn't that good to began with.

It used to be acrylic 30mm but thats heavy and hard as a rock, nowdays its lexan.
I`m currently building a hockey stadium and we are using before mentioned.

#5033 55 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

It used to be acrylic 30mm but thats heavy and hard as a rock, nowdays its lexan.
I`m currently building a hockey stadium and we are using before mentioned.

I don't know what they use in Sweden but you specifically said NHL rinks. Which up until a few years back were tempered glass and they've since switched to plexiglass (brandname for acrylic).

#5034 55 days ago

6mm thick and the Lexan held up to that. Wow!
1mm Hardtop anyone?

#5035 54 days ago

can’t say enough great things about my distributor here in Michigan. my new replacement PF came today, and it’s PERFECT. was built with pooling and developed cracking/chipping. this makes me feel complete for the 10k investment, especially when you consider how the pooling and chipping does not effect gameplay. thanks JJP and Abel Electronics
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#5036 54 days ago

That's great. So how much time and effort will it take to do the swap?

#5037 54 days ago

Don't really care, because I'm not going to swap it. It least, not now. the pooling/chipping does NOT affect game play, and I bought my game to PLAY, not sit and stare at. The most important thing here is JJP making the customer whole. It will be going with the game if I ever sell it, and don't end up swapping it down the road.

#5038 54 days ago
Quoted from Seatmandan:

Pooling and chipping does not effect gameplay.

Quoted from mbeardsley:

How much time and effort will it take to do the swap?

None, since gameplay is not affected most will not bother to actually do the swap.
Down the road expect to see games for sale noting "brand new OEM playfield supplied along with game."
But I think you knew the answer before you asked the question.

#5039 54 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

That's great. So how much time and effort will it take to do the swap?

Shit happened. It was awful to deal with as a consumer. Lots of back and forth from customers to JJP. JJP handled things. Ideally this is behind us.

End of story.

#5040 54 days ago

I really was just curious about how hard it is to do a playfield swap on a JJP machine.

You do bring up an interesting point though...if the pooling and such does not affect gameplay, and no one is going to do the swap, why was there so many complaints about needing a new playfield? People need something to fill their closets with or something?

#5041 54 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

I really was just curious about how hard it is to do a playfield swap on a JJP machine.
You do bring up an interesting point though...if the pooling and such does not affect gameplay, and no one is going to do the swap, why was there so many complaints about needing a new playfield? People need something to fill their closets with or something?

Seeing a $9500 product damage unnaturally right before your eyes, was a pretty unnerving process for us POTC owners. Trying to prevent it with fixes, was as anxiety producing.

#5042 54 days ago

It seems we have bigger fish to fry now?

#5043 54 days ago
Quoted from Seatmandan:

Don't really care, because I'm not going to swap it. It least, not now. the pooling/chipping does NOT affect game play, and I bought my game to PLAY, not sit and stare at. The most important thing here is JJP making the customer whole. It will be going with the game if I ever sell it, and don't end up swapping it down the road.

I think this is why most people with these issues want a new playfield.

#5044 54 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

People need something to fill their closets with or something?

I don't think this is the case- Like I said; I won't be doing the PF swap, even though I have the right tools and knowledge to do it. No big deal to me. Maybe down the road, but probably not. It WILL however, give a potential buyer the OPTION to have a perfect playfield if they so wish, if they indeed need it that way. Some people need perfect games. Like... literally- PERFECT. That option is there. Again, I think JJP has bent over backwards trying to mitigate this issue all while trying to fill current orders, and get in line the launch of GNR. Hats off to them. QC did, however, slip through the cracks last spring before releasing this game.

I'm really impressed with how close to center the code was when released. not to far off.

#5045 54 days ago

I know most of the Stern machines affected were more recent, but I'm looking to buy a playfield out of an Iron Maiden Pro with clearcoat issues if anyone got a replacement and managed to do a swap.

#5046 54 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

I really was just curious about how hard it is to do a playfield swap on a JJP machine.
You do bring up an interesting point though...if the pooling and such does not affect gameplay, and no one is going to do the swap, why was there so many complaints about needing a new playfield? People need something to fill their closets with or something?

No, so they could get what they paid for. I would hope you would hold an auto manufacturer to the same standard. These toys are not cheap.

#5047 54 days ago
Quoted from romulusx:

It seems we have bigger fish to fry now?

Part of the reason I was FLOORED when I saw UPS deliver my PF today.

#5048 54 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

No, so they could get what they paid for. I would hope you would hold an auto manufacturer to the same standard. These toys are not cheap.

Well, if I bought a new car, and it had a damaged fender, I would want the fender replaced. I would not insist on an additional new fender to store in my garage so that I could sell the fender when/if I sell the car.

Either I care (and therefore want the fender actually fixed/replaced), or I don't care...in which case...I don't care.

If the car had a bad paint job, would you feel better if they handed you a gallon of paint?

#5049 54 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Well, if I bought a new car, and it had a damaged fender, I would want the fender replaced. I would not insist on an additional new fender to store in my garage so that I could sell the fender when/if I sell the car.
Either I care (and therefore want the fender actually fixed/replaced), or I don't care...in which case...I don't care.
If the car had a bad paint job, would you feel better if they handed you a gallon of paint?

Well here's the thing:

Pinball isn't cars. It's super different than cars, in countless number of ways. A backup mint playfield is worth more to a pinball owner than a backup mint fender is to a car owner.

Because cars and pinball machines are totally different.

#5050 54 days ago
Quoted from Seatmandan:Part of the reason I was FLOORED when I saw UPS deliver my PF today.

I was surprised when mine showed up the other day. I am running mine on
Route and in no hurry to swap playfields.

Quoted from mbeardsley:

I really was just curious about how hard it is to do a playfield swap on a JJP machine.
You do bring up an interesting point though...if the pooling and such does not affect gameplay, and no one is going to do the swap, why was there so many complaints about needing a new playfield? People need something to fill their closets with or something?

Its definitely a resale issue. A Wonka with pooling and minor chipping might bring low to mid 6s. Now with a spare playfield on hand I won't let it go for less then 7k(unless the market completely crashes.) I already talked to a few people about buying it and everyone agreed a new uninstalled playfield really makes it more tempting.

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