(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

9 months ago



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There are 5311 posts in this topic. You are on page 100 of 107.
-3
#4951 3 months ago
Quoted from Mrawesome44:

There's a sth pro at a local bar. Has literally every main issue that people complain about and the game doesn't even get a huge amount of play. People need to stop saying these issues are normal cause they aren't. It's looking like Playfield protectors are going to become a must the way these new playfields are holding up

I’d just like to say that These issues are normal.

#4952 3 months ago

Everybody has a right to decide how much dimpling, divoting, cratering, etc they’re willing to accept, just like everybody has a right to decide which pin themes they like or dislike. There’s no right or wrong here in spite of what some “experts” would like to have us think. For me personally, as it seems there are significant differences from one build to the next at certain manufacturers, this would suggest the quality control is rather lax. This throws up a red flag for me.

#4953 3 months ago
Quoted from JY64:

[quoted image][quoted image]

My Build Date was Jan 2019, but didn't get my game until July 1st, but didn't play until middle of July.....I can't believe how great the playfield is....barely any ball marks...they are there but you really have to look hard.

My guess is the playfield probably is cured well due to not being played for 6 months

#4954 3 months ago

Panzer will never mention anything bad about JJP because he is their biggest fanboy. JJP games dimple too, their clearcoat also chips and pools around the posts just like Sterns games. JJP is no better at all, even with their outrageous prices and how they boast about being the highest quality games made. Its simply not true and Jack wont stand behind his product either.

#4955 3 months ago
Quoted from 3pinballs:

My Build Date was Jan 2019, but didn't get my game until July 1st, but didn't play until middle of July.....I can't believe how great the playfield is....barely any ball marks...they are there but you really have to look hard.
My guess is the playfield probably is cured well due to not being played for 6 months

If you play it it's going to dimple period.

#4956 3 months ago
Quoted from Escapism:

Clearcoat needs time to fully harden. Thicker clear takes longer. Companies assemble PFs before they're fully cured. "GREEEED"

Also clear coats that were mixed wrong will never harden.

#4957 3 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Panzer will never mention anything bad about JJP because he is their biggest fanboy. JJP games dimple too, their clearcoat also chips and pools around the posts just like Sterns games. JJP is no better at all, even with their outrageous prices and how they boast about being the highest quality games made. Its simply not true and Jack wont stand behind his product either.

Except I have mentioned flaws and quality issues on JJP games multiple times including making a thread questioning if JJP quality had gone down.

Also, yes I do think JJP makes higher quality products then Stern that also offers more value. If I'm a fanboy for saying that so be it.

#4958 3 months ago

I own 16 machines now. Different manufacturers and age; All have dimpling.

Love my JJP pins. Have had numerous board issues though. Their customer service department has always made things right.

#4959 3 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Except I have mentioned flaws and quality issues on JJP games multiple times including making a thread questioning if JJP quality had gone down.

Well the only company that you seem to single out is Stern. I think anyone here would agree with me on that.

#4960 3 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Panzer will never mention anything bad about JJP because he is their biggest fanboy. JJP games dimple too, their clearcoat also chips and pools around the posts just like Sterns games. JJP is no better at all, even with their outrageous prices and how they boast about being the highest quality games made. Its simply not true and Jack wont stand behind his product either.

Just a data point, I believe the pooling/chipping issue is corrected. My Wonka CE has zero pooling and is holding up fine. It does dimple but that is not unexpected to me on any pin.

#4961 3 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Well the only company that you seem to single out is Stern. I think anyone here would agree with me on that.

I've never created a thread questioning Sterns quality but have with JJP as seen below. I had made the thread below prior to these playfield issues being reported. After getting a WOZ ECLE I had hoped that the level of quality would remain the same. Hobbit had that same level of quality but I think it has gone down a notch since then.

I think Stern makes great games but do question their prices considering what you get in return. I just don't see the value there with a majority of Sterns. Stern is charging close or at JJP prices but isn't offering the same value in terms of features and parts build quality in my opinion. The last Stern that I think was truly loaded up with multiple interactive toys and 3D molds was Ghostbusters Premium which I happily purchased NIB. All of their games are fun and if money was no object I would buy them all.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-jjp-quality-control-inconsistent-

#4962 3 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Just a data point, I believe the pooling/chipping issue is corrected. My Wonka CE has zero pooling and is holding up fine. It does dimple but that is not unexpected to me on any pin.

It has been somewhat fixed by taking away the artwork from under all the posts. I think the real problem is still there though.

#4963 3 months ago
Quoted from Escapism:

Clearcoat needs time to fully harden. Thicker clear takes longer. Companies assemble PFs before they're fully cured. "GREEEED"

clear either hardens in minutes or never hardens.

#4964 3 months ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

clear either hardens in minutes or never hardens.

that’s not quite true - typical automotive series 2K low bake clearcoat (like what’s put on bumpers or mirror caps) is considered cured 72 hours after baking. I do not know, however, what kind of clear is being applied to pins, but I would guess it’s similiar in it’s chemistry - unless UV curing clears are used - which would actually make a lot of sense and then you would be spot on.

#4965 3 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

It has been somewhat fixed by taking away the artwork from under all the posts. I think the real problem is still there though.

Nope artwork still everywhere on my new Wonka that was Stern’s solution

#4966 3 months ago
Quoted from branlon8:

Everybody has a right to decide how much dimpling, divoting, cratering, etc they’re willing to accept, just like everybody has a right to decide which pin themes they like or dislike. There’s no right or wrong here in spite of what some “experts” would like to have us think. For me personally, as it seems there are significant differences from one build to the next at certain manufacturers, this would suggest the quality control is rather lax. This throws up a red flag for me.

I'd like my game, extra stacked with great modes, fun toys, and an excellent layout.

But umm, hold the dimples please.

#4967 3 months ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Nope artwork still everywhere on my new Wonka that was Stern’s solution

I was talking about Stern games in this case here, not JJP.

#4968 3 months ago
Quoted from branlon8:

that’s not quite true - typical automotive series 2K low bake clearcoat (like what’s put on bumpers or mirror caps) is considered cured 72 hours after baking. I do not know, however, what kind of clear is being applied to pins, but I would guess it’s similiar in it’s chemistry - unless UV curing clears are used - which would actually make a lot of sense and then you would be spot on.

yes it could be as you note it depends what you use - the 2K stuff that I've used at 20C was done in 12 hours, and if baked 30 minutes, can't see them baking wood though! I remember the pinball news article that showed play fields on racks curing at CGC. I had assumed UV though and I wonder if that's the change that has made play fields problematic?

#4969 3 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

It has been somewhat fixed by taking away the artwork from under all the posts. I think the real problem is still there though.

That is simply not true.

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#4970 3 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

That is simply not true.[quoted image]

Stern games not JJP. All Stern did was bandaid the problem by taking the artwork out from under the posts. Put that artwork back under there and the problem would still exist.

#4971 3 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Stern games not JJP. All Stern did was bandaid the problem by taking the artwork out from under the posts. Put that artwork back under there and the problem would still exist.

on my JP2 and Elvira, the clear is totally different from BK:SOR or other games, seems thinner. Yes its the artwork is missing from some areas but its not the only change.

#4972 3 months ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

on my JP2 and Elvira, the clear is totally different from BK:SOR or other games, seems thinner. Yes its the artwork is missing from some areas but its not the only change.

Well I've heard from some pretty good sources that the real problem has still not been corrected and you dont see them putting the artwork back under the posts so I tend to believe that the issue with the artwork pulling up has not been corrected.

Also I have seen the newer playfields with the super thin clearcoat on the newer games and I'm not a fan of that either. The playfields dont look as nice and I gotta wonder how they will hold up under heavy usage.

#4973 3 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Well I've heard from some pretty good sources that the real problem has still not been corrected and you dont see them putting the artwork back under the posts so I tend to believe that the issue with the artwork pulling up has not been corrected.
Also I have seen the newer playfields with the super thin clearcoat on the newer games and I'm not a fan of that either. The playfields dont look as nice and I gotta wonder how they will hold up under heavy usage.

Who-Dey and the gang....are on the case!

BHG+-+Seth+4 (resized).jpg
#4974 3 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Well I've heard from some pretty good sources that the real problem has still not been corrected and you dont see them putting the artwork back under the posts so I tend to believe that the issue with the artwork pulling up has not been corrected.
Also I have seen the newer playfields with the super thin clearcoat on the newer games and I'm not a fan of that either. The playfields dont look as nice and I gotta wonder how they will hold up under heavy usage.

I realize you're probably referring to Stern but for the record, the new Wonka clear looks as thick as the original to me.

#4975 3 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

Who-Dey and the gang....are on the case![quoted image]

There's a reason why I haven't bought a new game in awhile other than the fact that I'm broke.

#4976 3 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I realize you're probably referring to Stern but for the record, the new Wonka clear looks as thick as the original to me.

I agree, the problem seems to have been fixed....until the next problem pops up anyway.

#4977 3 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I realize you're probably referring to Stern but for the record, the new Wonka clear looks as thick as the original to me.

It does Mirco got a wake up call!

#4979 3 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Just a data point, I believe the pooling/chipping issue is corrected. My Wonka CE has zero pooling and is holding up fine. It does dimple but that is not unexpected to me on any pin.

Thanks, that helps. I’m thinking of getting a Wonka SE but unsure what build date to look for other than “last week” lol. Maybe just wait a tad longer and roll the dice for a 2020 build.

#4980 3 months ago
Quoted from Darkwing:

Thanks, that helps. I’m thinking of getting a Wonka SE but unsure what build date to look for other than “last week” lol. Maybe just wait a tad longer and roll the dice for a 2020 build.

October 2019 is when I think the playfield issues were corrected.

#4981 3 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

October 2019 is when I think the playfield issues were corrected.

Be nice of Stern to admit they had a major problem and exactly when they soved it, wouldn't it?

I won't touch a NIB Stern until they do and identify the backstock that is affected.

#4982 3 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

October 2019 is when I think the playfield issues were corrected.

This is correct ^^^^

#4983 3 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Not familiar with the differences, is there some toy or feature that sets them apart I could identify?

#4984 3 months ago
Quoted from guitarded:

Be nice of Stern to admit they had a major problem and exactly when they soved it, wouldn't it?
I won't touch a NIB Stern until they do and identify the backstock that is affected.

That is never going to happen. They always stay silent when there's problems. It's frustrating for sure.

#4985 3 months ago
Quoted from guitarded:

Be nice of Stern to admit they had a major problem and exactly when they soved it, wouldn't it?
I won't touch a NIB Stern until they do and identify the backstock that is affected.

none of the pinball vendors have done this but I agree that it's needed. I doubt we will get it.

#4986 3 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Stern games not JJP. All Stern did was bandaid the problem by taking the artwork out from under the posts. Put that artwork back under there and the problem would still exist.

Yeah you're right. That's why we've seen metal ball guides sinking into the CC and then some bubbling and cracking.

So not 100%

#4987 3 months ago
Quoted from guitarded:

Be nice of Stern to admit they had a major problem and exactly when they soved it, wouldn't it?
I won't touch a NIB Stern until they do and identify the backstock that is affected.

LOL says the man who has never owned a Stern game they must be shaking in there boots

#4988 3 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

If you play it it's going to dimple period.

Agree....I'll have to check plays, but my wife plays the heck out of it and the playfield looks fantastic

#4989 3 months ago
Quoted from JY64:

LOL says the man who has never owned a Stern game they must be shaking in there boots

I've owned or own a lot of Sterns....I'll never buy another NIB stern until they first admit there was a problem, and two convince me they solved the problem. My guess is I'll never buy another Stern game....oh well

-1
#4990 3 months ago

My Stranger Things Premium is perfect so far. No pooling/chipping. Dimples are minor. Playfield is beautiful. Game is a blast! Can’t wait to see where the codes goes.

#4991 3 months ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Can’t wait to see where the codes goes.

Well one thing is for sure, it can only get better.

#4992 3 months ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

My Stranger Things Premium is perfect so far. No pooling/chipping. Dimples are minor. Playfield is beautiful. Game is a blast! Can’t wait to see where the codes goes.

you should find out in 2022 when they finish the code.

-1
#4993 3 months ago
Quoted from JY64:

LOL says the man who has never owned a Stern game they must be shaking in there boots

More like, says a man with enough money in his pocket to buy any game he really wants.

#4994 3 months ago

You must have large pockets. Even if you’re dealing with hundreds that’s gotta be annoying carrying around 10k of 100 dollar bills.

#4995 3 months ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Even if you’re dealing with hundreds that’s gotta be annoying carrying around 10k of 100 dollar bills.

Yeah. It's a terrible inconvenience.

#4996 3 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

October 2019 is when I think the playfield issues were corrected.

I think that sounds about right.
I have a Star Wars Comic book art that came off the line first week in November and the playfield is fine.

#4997 3 months ago
Quoted from Coindork:

I think that sounds about right.
I have a Star Wars Comic book art that came off the line first week in November and the playfield is fine.

But what is important is when the was playfield made, not when the machine was assembled. You could have a machine assembled in November with a playfield made much earlier or not.

#4998 3 months ago
Quoted from Coindork:

I think that sounds about right.
I have a Star Wars Comic book art that came off the line first week in November and the playfield is fine.

I think it was always hit or miss so it will never truly be known

#4999 3 months ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

But what is important is when the was playfield made, not when the machine was assembled. You could have a machine assembled in November with a playfield made much earlier or not.

Quoted from JY64:

I think it was always hit or miss so it will never truly be known

I totally agree with both of these statements. Just stating that my game was completed November 7th and has new style playfield. Cabinet build was October.
I would hope going forward they are not using old stocks of defective or inferior parts, but I guess time will tell.

#5000 3 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Stern games not JJP. All Stern did was bandaid the problem by taking the artwork out from under the posts. Put that artwork back under there and the problem would still exist.

That's my concern as well. It seems like Stern didn't change anything with their playfield clear process but instead simply removed artwork around playfield posts to prevent chipping. We are still seeing Stern playfields dimple more severely than ever before, hence the mini moon crater comments.

If other smaller companies can produce better quality playfields then there's no excuse for Stern not to match or exceed that quality. Stern should want to do that if they claim to take pride in the products they build. Why wouldn't Stern want to put out a better quality playfield after numerous price increases and other cost cutting moves?

Overall it's hard to want to buy a $6k-$9k+ product from a company that is basically taking a "We don't give a crap about quality" stance. Every other pinball company out there but Stern seems to care more about product quality.

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