(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

89 days ago



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There are 3151 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 64.
#451 83 days ago

My Maiden pro was built May 2018.

Playfield never had dimpling and it is super glossy.

I found one bit of rippling ( that I wouldn't have seen if I didn't look very closely ).

My only longer term worry is why some rippling turns to cracking and peeling?

Also, it seems to be happening at a faster rate on the latest games.

I decided to mylar just this spot to give the area longer term protection as the ball really whacks this post!

Only other thing I will do now is avoid games built 2018/19, until it is certain Stern/JJP have solved this issue.

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#452 83 days ago

My Maiden build date 8/27/18 & I purchased it NIB in March 2019
I have not yet found any puddling, bubbling, or cracking - but it seems like it has a ton more dimpling then any of my other machines

My AFMr PF looks flawless!

-1
#453 83 days ago

I'm sure those upper washers by the "plastics" are gentle on the balls.

#454 83 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

My Maiden build date 8/27/18 & I purchased it NIB in March 2019
I have not yet found any puddling, bubbling, or cracking - but it seems like it has a ton more dimpling then any of my other machines
My AFMr PF looks flawless!

My AFMr had lots dimpling. My Iron Maiden pro barely has and playfield is perfect.

It is a lottery.

#455 83 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

I'm sure those washers are gentle on the balls.

If they are going to do that, at least get some damn washers that are the same diameter as the base of the post. Seriously, how hard is that?!?!

I really, really wanted to buy a Jurassic Park, but I'm going to sit on my hands for now. I see that small post in front of the upper flipper being an issue as much as it gets smacked.

#456 82 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

I'm sure those washers are gentle on the balls.

The balls can not get even close to touching the washers.

#457 82 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

The balls can not get even close to touching the washers.

I always keep my loose balls away from the washer...that's some nightmare fuel there.

#458 82 days ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

If they are going to do that, at least get some damn washers that are the same diameter as the base of the post. Seriously, how hard is that?!?!
I really, really wanted to buy a Jurassic Park, but I'm going to sit on my hands for now. I see that small post in front of the upper flipper being an issue as much as it gets smacked.

That defeats the entire concept of putting washers in the first place, which is (intended) to increase the surface area with the given tension on it. Despite this if the clear is not cured (or soft), it is only going to increase the size of the squished area.

#459 82 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I always keep my loose balls away from the washer...that's some nightmare fuel there.

Lol lucky the word flange never came into it.... errrr ...

Ha ha

#460 82 days ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

Yikes. The washer / post combination on the new machines is effin' ugly. This is the Jurassic Park they just got at the local bar. I checked their GoTG, which was fine, however, BM66 and Black Knight Premium were not and showed chipping at the sling posts.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Ssshhh. No widespread issues

#461 82 days ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

If they are going to do that, at least get some damn washers that are the same diameter as the base of the post. Seriously, how hard is that?!?!

that would defeat the purpose of the washers.
With the washers, they are trying to enlarge the footprint to reduce stress in a concentrated area
But it's a band-aid and does not address the real issue nor prevent future issues in other areas

I am really having second thoughts on my JP premium
I was super excited about this pin but could be just as happy playing what i have now while Stern figures this out

#462 82 days ago

It's sort of ironic that you can pay JJP extra for shiny RadCals eye candy

In all honesty, I would be willing to pay extra for a PF with a better coating using higher quality clear - something that actually matters

#463 82 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

that would defeat the purpose of the washers.
With the washers, they are trying to enlarge the footprint to reduce stress in a concentrated area
But it's a band-aid and does not address the real issue nor prevent future issues in other areas
I am really having second thoughts on my JP premium
I was super excited about this pin but could be just as happy playing what i have now while Stern figures this out

I honestly believe that Shapeshifter has the right idea by using the mylar circles.

#464 82 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

It's sort of ironic that you can pay JJP extra for shiny RadCals eye candy

Yeah but those things are awesome

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#465 82 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

It's sort of ironic that you can pay JJP extra for shiny RadCals eye candy
In all honesty, I would be willing to pay extra for a PF with a better coating using higher quality clear - something that actually matters

This isn't possible...their games are already built to last, its right on their web site!!

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#466 82 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

This isn't possible...their games are already built to last, its right on their web site!! [quoted image]

Yeah that chipping playfield really is a head turner. They are right about that part at least.

#467 82 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I honestly believe that Shapeshifter has the right idea by using the mylar circles.

again, just a band-aid.
Only covers, doesn't fix nor prevent future issues in other areas

#468 82 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Yeah but those things are awesome [quoted image]

Yes, but what I was trying to convey is...
If people are willing to pay more money for what amounts to eye candy, people may be willing to pay extra for a better PF if that's what it takes

#469 82 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

again, just a band-aid.
Only covers, doesn't fix nor prevent future issues in other areas

Agreed. It’s just common sense really.

16
#470 82 days ago

It's good Stern is including washers on some or all of the newest JP games but that is also just an admission to a playfield issue that they are saying doesn't exist...

#471 82 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

It's good Stern is including washers on some or all of the newest JP games but that is also just an admission to a playfield issue that they are saying doesn't exist...

And the washers will only delay the issue.

But as no one is sure what the warranty is on playfields, I guess a delay is good for the manufacturer as the longer the time period from buying a game, the less the consumer can do.

16
#472 82 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

It's good Stern is including washers on some or all of the newest JP games but that is also just an admission to a playfield issue that they are saying doesn't exist...

I don't see it that way - it's not a good thing.
It's an admission that there is an issue without a fix, so we are shipping your game with band-aids

The washers are something that may prevent me from noticing the real issue/defect until it's too late to make a claim.
They don't fix the defect nor prevent PF issues in the future in other areas

So me no bueno on shipping with the washers and calling it a day

#473 82 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

The balls can not get even close to touching the washers.

I meant the upper washers. I edited my post. Sorry for the confusion.

#474 82 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

It's good Stern is including washers on some or all of the newest JP games but that is also just an admission to a playfield issue that they are saying doesn't exist...

Where did they say it wasn’t an issue publicly?

They must be saying it’s an issue if people have been getting replacement pf’s.

I’ve seen several in various threads comment about sending theirs back and getting a new populated in exchange.

So clearly they admit there is an issue.

#475 82 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Where did they say it wasn’t an issue publicly?
They must be saying it’s an issue if people have been getting replacement pf’s.
I’ve seen several in various threads comment about sending theirs back and getting a new populated in exchange.
So clearly they admit there is an issue.

Their statement to this week in pinball. Meanwhile jjps statement was we are on vacation and we'll get back to you

11
#476 82 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Where did they say it wasn’t an issue publicly?

Filed under the B.S. section...

Digging hole in sand for prompt head insertion (resized).png

#477 82 days ago
Quoted from PinballTilt:

Their statement to this week in pinball. Meanwhile jjps statement was we are on vacation and we'll get back to you

He didn’t say there are no issues just that it isn’t widespread correct?

Of course he is going to down play it a bit on a podcast.

Actions are louder than words, and they are replacing Beatles and Guardians pf’s from what I’ve read.

JJp meanwhile...nothin but crickets

#478 82 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:

He didn’t say there are no issues just that it isn’t widespread correct?

Of course he is going to down play it a bit on a podcast.

Actions are louder than words, and they are replacing Beatles and Guardians pf’s from what I’ve read.

I'm looking forward to Stern sending me a bag of sand which I'll be advised to pound, as my Luci VE (which I bought about 14 months ago) didn't have the issue show up immediately, and it has it now, well out of any warranty. Well.. maybe they'll be some assorted washers in that bag of sand.

#479 82 days ago

Just posted in another thread

"Anyone interested in a Wonka LE trade, yes it has small rings of clear coat around the Star posts."

any takers?

#480 82 days ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

Stern - We are not aware of any PF clear issues... Now if you'll excuse us, before we put our heads in the sand, we have to go do a bunch of marketing blitzes, including uploading a SW The Pin video to Youtube which certainly shows the outstanding quality of our clear coat. Just please don't hit pause.
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[quoted image]

Yeah... and the reality that they've change their builds to put washers under slingshot star posts... something they never did before. And magically, they make that change now...? How convenient...

#481 82 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Yeah... and the reality that they've change their builds to put washers under slingshot star posts... something they never did before. And magically, they make that change now...? How convenient...

Which is a change in BoM, so I'm sure they'll update their manuals, and put out a service bulletin for all games shipped previou... ah, who am I kidding.

#482 82 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Yeah but those things are awesome [quoted image]

Your post is quite ironic in that just because a pin is pretty doesn’t mean the hood won’t always be up. Like in your pic.

24
#483 82 days ago

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again.

We are our own worst enemies.

If we tolerate this stuff and accept the half ass fixes and gouging of replacements it will be accepted as the norm with no repercussion to the mfg because it’s been going on for a while.

I think if you have chipping and chipping in multiple areas whether in plain view or obscured a replacement is absolutely warranted.

If you have just bunching/bubbling it has been reported that the soft washers have had success in flattening out. I think this needs to be documented so if a chip occurs down the line you are covered.

Seriously, this shit can’t become acceptable.

#484 82 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

I'm sure those upper washers by the "plastics" are gentle on the balls.

I replaced mine with the plastic protectors from Mezel Mods on my Star Wars Premium, look better than stock and don't damage the balls

#485 82 days ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

Filed under the B.S. section...
[quoted image]

I thought Zach was only there to wear costumes at the reveal streams. I especially loved his work as the blow-up T-Rex...very convincing. I'd still love to find out who the mastermind is behind the Stern Insider Club.

-1
#486 82 days ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Correct me if I'm misremembering but at some point didn't Mirco (and CPR) both announce they were buying equipment that allowed them to print playfields at anytime thus eliminating the need for quantity runs?

You are referring to direct printed playfields vs using silkscreening. Thus, part of the ink discussion.. prep and adhesion questions.

Mirco has been direct printing for many years.. CPR is adding it to their options as it is faster, less error prone and less labor intensive.

#487 82 days ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

Which is a change in BoM, so I'm sure they'll update their manuals, and put out a service bulletin for all games shipped previou... ah, who am I kidding.

Have you looked in a stern manual in the last few years? They don't even include lists of parts like ball guides, posts, plastics, or anything... mounting hardware is way down the list of 'shit you won't find in a stern manual'

Frankly issues like the manual (since about Metallica era) are so abysmal and will really hurt us going forward.. yet most collectors are oblivious to it

#488 82 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Have you looked in a stern manual in the last few years? They don't even include lists of parts like ball guides, posts, plastics, or anything... mounting hardware is way down the list of 'shit you won't find in a stern manual'
Frankly issues like the manual (since about Metallica era) are so abysmal and will really hurt us going forward.. yet most collectors are oblivious to it

This is so true....JJP doesn't even provide a hard copy (although they did on my DILE) although they do put the manual on the display, which is a nice feature. Not sure if Stern does this or not on their newer games? Sterns hard copy manual is completely worthless

#489 82 days ago

JJP sends a disk out with all games.
Their hardcopy manuals are of course beautiful, which they should be after 2 years of making them.

#490 82 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

JJP sends a disk out with all games.
Their hardcopy manuals are of course beautiful, which they should be after 2 years of making them.

And for $100

#491 82 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

JJP sends a disk out with all games.

Not anymore...they Don't

#492 82 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again.
We are our own worst enemies....
Seriously, this shit can’t become acceptable.

But it will. People wont stop buying. As soon as BTTF, Jaws, Muppets, GNR whatever stupid ass "dream theme" comes out, they'll announce they have fixed the problem with zero proof or explanations and this community will open up the cash gates.

Just watch. Some people here cannot help themselves.

#493 82 days ago
Quoted from 3pinballs:

Not anymore...they Don't

Considering computers don't have disk drives anymore what would be the point?

#494 82 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

JJP sends a disk out with all games.
Their hardcopy manuals are of course beautiful, which they should be after 2 years of making them.

I actually got a disc for WOZ and Hobbit....after that they stopped (at least on my end) + their pretty useless since none of my computers use disc drives......yes they are beautiful, but for $9500 its not worth paying an additional $100 for the manual....the best thing JJP does is put the manual on the display...I've found that to be very useful

#495 82 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I actually got a disc for WOZ and Hobbit....after that they stopped (at least on my end) + their pretty useless since none of my computers use disc drives......yes they are beautiful, but for $9500 its not worth paying an additional $100 for the manual....the best thing JJP does is put the manual on the display...I've found that to be very useful

The printed JJP manuals are done so well that I find them to almost be like coffee table books. It would cost more then $100 to go to a Kinko's and print the manual on the same paper and at the same quality. The manual on the LCD is great, that is until you have the playfield lifted lol.

#496 82 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The manual on the LCD is great, that is until you have the playfield lifted lol.

Or unless the issue you need to look up involves 'no image on screen' - lol.

#497 82 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Yes, but what I was trying to convey is...
If people are willing to pay more money for what amounts to eye candy, people may be willing to pay extra for a better PF if that's what it takes

People are already paying record prices for NIB machines. Charging your customers (or even offering the option) for something you should be doing correctly anyway is not the answer.

#498 82 days ago

The biggest thing I learned from this thread is JJP no longer puts their printed manual in the game. Granted it's a free PDF and very well documented, but wow that is cheap for these $9,000 devices. They definitely need to include it with those slightly discounted replacement playfields since people are being expected to perform their own playfield swap.

#499 82 days ago

I would caution against Mylar. Who knows what will happen when you freeze or heat the soft, thick, blistered clear to remove it. I'm going to get some acrylic washers that are just out of ball range. My theory is that over time, the blistering (I have very little) will settle flat. Then I'll remove the large washers and put on smaller ones. Hopefully the clear can/will cure close to flat. This is all assuming I can find the damned washers...

#500 82 days ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

I would caution against Mylar. Who knows what will happen when you freeze or heat the soft, thick, blistered clear to remove it. I'm going to get some acrylic washers that are just out of ball range. My theory is that over time, the blistering (I have very little) will settle flat. Then I'll remove the large washers and put on smaller ones. Hopefully the clear can/will cure close to flat. This is all assuming I can find the damned washers...

According to the TWIP podcast - they had on people from Poor Man's Podcast and he actually works in the industry
- washers may help, but underlying issue is still there and could get worse in other areas
- if it's not cured and hard by the time we get them - they are never going to get hard and most likely clear was not mixed correctly
- if it's soft now, it's always going to be soft

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