(Topic ID: 291947)

Constant reset - Fish Tales

By bobulator

3 years ago


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  • 55 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by bobulator
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider Roamin.
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#2 3 years ago

The very first thing to check is the condition of these cables , their connectors and their pins. The red wires in the picture are the power wires for the 5v , the blue wires are the 12V. It is very common for these connectors to be damaged over time and it is the first thing you should look at. As for your batteries, pinching the cable *might* have caused issues, but it shouldn't be too serious. Can you provide pictures of these connectors near the fuses? And pictures of the CPU board (the one where the batteries are wired to) just so we can see if there's any obvious damage. If the batteries ever leaked on the board it could cause issues. This would leave traces of corrosion on the boards that we could see.

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#8 3 years ago

Pull out the connector with the red and blue wires and show us the pins and the connector from the side, to see if it over heated. Ideally remove the board and look at the solder of the J101 connector (red and blue wires) and see if the solder joints look clean or corroded. Do you have a multimeter ? You are going to need to start measuring some voltages, specifically the 5v.

There is no power supply in the machine, there's a transformer that converts the 220v into low voltage , and then the voltage is rectified into DC on the power board just after the fuses.

#10 3 years ago

As suspected the red wires had a rough life. Please show us the pins on the board itself (ideally top and bottom, to see the solder), most likely the same 2 pins are corroded. A temporary fix would be to file the pins back to a shiny state and make sure they are properly soldered. The real fix is to desolder the pins and change them , and crimp a new connector to the wires. File the pins and insert the remove the connector a bunch of time to try to clean the inside a bit.

#12 3 years ago

Replugging the connectors a few times can and will help , but that power connector really needs to be changed or you'll never fix it 100%. Cleaning the pins and re-inserting the ribbon and other connectors is usually a temporary solution only, but is enough to get the machine back on.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from bobulator:

CRASHED AGAIN!
unfortunately doing anything (opening the settings) automatically results in the reset.
Thanks you Roamin Sir ill try repluging it now, how do i go about trying to fix the pins with home methods?
i'll probably remove the board tomorrow check it out and maybe change the pin if i get one.
cheers.

The only home solutions is filing / sand paper the pins on the J101 connector. The red wires are the ones powering most logic in the game and pulls a lot of power. A bad connection in the connector increases resistance and lowers the available power , resetting the game when the 5v gets too low. It is a very common problem (my machine had the same issue, but it's long been fixed). Sand paper / file / re-insert the connector a bunch of times. Also make sure the board is properly screwed when its in place , for the ground to make good contact. Of course , if the solder of the pins of J101 is corroded, re-plugging the connectors to clean its insides might not be enough. You will need someone who can solder to properly fix this connector before even thinking of fixing anything else.

The language settings is in A1 - 21. Unless your default settings aren't english (european ROM maybe?) pulling out the batteries will make the game reset its settings, and would fall back in english.

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from bobulator:

Thank you gentleman,
@dsrfmd so i need bridge rectifier 200v 35A (2 or even 3 of those), and 15000 uF 25 VDC +20% capacitor to change it?
So far no more luck with connectors and pins its not starting at all, tried sanding J101 Roamin and ive noticed that the red cable is running a little hot after just turning on the machine is it normal?

Yes and no. It is normal for those wires to warm up, but they shouldn't get too hot. Poor connections will cause connectors and wires to heat up and burn. It is very possible that it heated up to a point where the solder in the back is cracked and that's why it doesn't turn on anymore.

You can test the rectifying bridges (BR#) with a multimeter. You can't do much without one except speculate and inspect the connectors. But by looking at your picture, the connector IS damaged. To quote Chris Hibler from that thread you've been referred to :

"While it's out....check C2 to ensure it's not leaking. This happens frequently, affecting the 12VDC circuit.
Check J101 and J114. If shiny and bright, move on. **** Otherwise, if you are up to it, replace them. Rationale: those are the power in/out connectors. They are at the top of the list for causing resets. ****

I wouldn't mess with any of the big 15,000uf caps. They are hard for the typical hobbyist to remove without damaging the board. And again, don't fix what is not broken. "

Label your connectors or take pictures and pull out the board. Post a picture of both the pins without a connector on it , and the solder joints in the back.

#20 3 years ago

I wouldnt be surprised that you find your pins looking like this :

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#21 3 years ago

As you can see in this picture , circled in red , we can see the burned pin from outside the plastic. The connector is normally not yellow at all

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#23 3 years ago
Quoted from bobulator:

Thank you for all the ideas,
drsfmd do i check bridges by ohm checking p.e. most right upper pin with the one below (bottom left)?
if so i think i managed to get about 0.4 on BR3 but im not sure about BR2 its hard to check without removing the board, ill try tomorrow.
And ill definitely change that connector as soon as i get one Roamin

Resistance (ohm) is not the proper way to test a bridge rectifier , but it could work if it's broken short. The right setting on your meter will be a diode (arrow). You might need to hold a button to change to that function. The diodes inside a bridge should measure between 0.4 and 0.7 V (volts) , if you read 0.4 ohms on a rectifier, then you measured a short. If you measure a short with your diode test you will read 0.00 V . If the bridge is broken short , the fuse will burn, if it was broken open (doesn't happen often) then the fuse wouldn't always burn.

#25 3 years ago

Did you measure the 3.5v with the connector disconnected? With your damaged connector it would be normal for the 10v AC to drop to as low as 3.5... Putting some strain on the transformer, which makes noise in return, pulls too much current and blows up your apartment's fuse. You should disconnect the output of the transformer and verify you have the following voltages (in AC on your meter, wavy line). Note that the Gray, Gray white and Gray green wires form a "center tap" , meaning the middle pin , gray white, is used once to measure the grey wire and once again to measure the gray green. Both sides will give you 20 volts. Taking a measurement from gray to gray green would measure the entire coil , so 40v. If these voltages are very close when the connector is disconnected, then the preliminary tests for the transformer are good.

Obviously if your voltage drops to 3.5v it is too low to power the board at 5v , so the board resets/shuts down.
20200929_205007 (resized).jpg20200929_205007 (resized).jpg

#26 3 years ago

I meant to add , if you are certain you get all the voltages at the different TPs , then logically it would mean the Bridge Rectifiers (BR#) are not damaged.

#28 3 years ago
Quoted from bobulator:

Hello, thank you for vouching for me Roamin and thank you sir for help,
after disconnecting the red cable i seem to have null 0 VOLTS.
is my power supply broken?

Are you certain that you measure with AC and not DC ? Transformers output AC voltage (wavy line on meter).

Something you are not doing correct It would be impossible to measure the 3.5v if you can't measure the 10v when the connector is disconnected. It's always easier with pictures!

Disconnect the transformer's connector , but you need to power on the machine (nothing will happen, except voltages would be present on the connector.)

Can you show us a few pictures of the connector where you try to measure red wires (10v AC) .. Just to make sure the wires are all in place (it should , but just in case).

#30 3 years ago

And that's 4.2v with the connector disconnected between the transformer and the boards? You see the service outlet in the machine ? If you measure AC voltage there , how close to 220v is it ? Can you provide pictures of the 2 connectors one on each side of the transformer. Doubtful , but there's a slight possibility the input of the transformer is miswired (doubtful , but worth looking at).

4.2v could very well mean the transformer is not getting 220v and is getting less , so it is outputting less. So , check the outlet where you connect the game , and the service outlet in the machine, they should be close to 220v (AC , always AC when working on transformers, power lines).

Everything starts with proper voltage, from the very source (wall) all the way to the board. If power is incorrect, nothing else can work properly. Your 4.2v should be at least double that in order for the 5v DC to be stable.

#31 3 years ago

If you didn't disconnect the connector and measure 4.2v at the connector of the transformer and 3.5v at the connector on the board, it's actually telling you how much the wires and their connections are pulling down the voltage from a bad contact due to corrosion.

#35 3 years ago

Sorry I should have explained how to measure correctly. Measuring AC you need to place both probes on the same colored dots in my picture. These colors represent the same color as the wires in those pins. A circle white and center red means its a white/red wire. So between the 2 red dots you are getting 10V now that you measure correctly, this is a very good sign. That same 10v should be present at the connector where you measured 4.2V. You did measure 4.2V in AC with one probe on each red wire at the connector, correct ? Or did you measure with ground for the 4.2v as well ? Either way, 10v is what you should read, so back on focusing on that burned connector. You're supposed to measure 10v at the connector as well, measure red "against each other" as you put it. The wires will need to be shorten a bit because their tip is surely oxidized.

Is the transformer quieter when the connector is unplugged ? It should be.

#38 3 years ago

The red wires themselves should be good. To do a proper job you need to replace the pins on board and the connector. Not sure what your method of "hardwiring" would be, but even if you were to solder the red wires directly to the pins themselves , without checking behind the board, without extensively cleaning the pins before soldering to them you probably won't get great results , plus it's going to be a botched repair and no good if the board needs to be replaced. It isn't a lot of work for a trained person to change just that 1 connector. The job gets tedious when you decide to change all the connectors , or at the very least all the power connectors, but this machine is nearly 30 years old and doing the job right this one time will make it last a long time. A botched repair can only cause more headaches in the long run. This is the main power board of the machine, without it nothing can work. It's old, hasn't had the care it deserved, but that's why it's in your hands now. I understand the itch to play a few games, but take the time to properly fix the main power connection of your machine .

Find an electronic tech in your area that has the skills to change that connector, and it should take under 15 minutes if he has the parts.

#44 3 years ago

Ok , you said you go through "pinball missing". You do have 3 balls in the machine? Multiball always works the same, you need to place 3 balls in the "Caster's Club". The difficulty setting only affects the drop down target that blocks the entrance of the caster's club. This drop down target is responsible for making sure you don't send a ball in the caster's club when you shouldn't or you'd be out of balls. It is also activated after you collect at least 1 jackpot and multiball ends (on normal , or is it medium difficulty). I guess on easy the drop down target won't block the caster's club after a multiball, on normal you need to hit it once and on hard you hit it twice.

The reason why
1) The wires get so hot to touch is because of that damaged connector.
2) Your game doesn't boot with the sound board is because of that damaged connector (most likely). That same connector ALSO powers the soundboard. The 5v from the power board goes to feed the CPU board, the soundboard, the fliptronic (flippers) board. They all require 5v logic, and the more boards are connected, the more power it requires from the red wires. Your wires are already too hot , adding the soundboard most likely brings the 5v too low because the bad connection in the connector is preventing the required power to go through. Keep running the game like this and you risk damaging the board more.

Now let's pretend that without the soundboard, the 5v is stable enough so that the CPU doesn't behave weirdly. If your CPU is running correctly, and you are getting issues like pinball missing, autocast not working, the very first thing do check would be the switch connectors on the CPU board. Unplugging connectors J207 and J209 on the CPU board (the one with the batteries) a few times, again to try and clean corrosion on the pins by friction could fix many issues like your multiball issues if the reel optos aren't detected properly. These are the connectors for all the switches on the playfield.

Otherwise, if it's not the connectors, the troubles you are having, pinball missing, auto cast not working, could be related to the green-brown wire that is common to the switches where the balls are (Trough switches 1,2,3 and outhole). There might be a bad contact on one of the switches and the green-brown wire doesn't make a good connection to the other switches.

I won't go deeper into details on figuring out your switch related issues until you've fixed the power. Power is always the first thing to fix/rule out. All of your current issues could be related to power. A single IC on a board could be acting up because the 5v is dirty or too low and start causing all sorts of weird issues.

#53 3 years ago
Quoted from bobulator:

Roamin mister, i have changed the molex connector and its much much better, sound is working, and much less resets, but the multiball still crashes the game anyway, should i resolder the joints on the board or look elsewhere sir?
cheers, its something but still unplayable.

Did you change just the connector or the pins too for j101? Confident enough to show us the repair?

The game crashes means what? It resets? What happens exactly when multi ball starts?

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