(Topic ID: 285582)

Congo - no power on AV board - J605 issues

By Redback37

1 year ago


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  • 20 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Redback37
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Molex pinout for US 120V (resized).jpg
voltage jumper (resized).JPG
AV board.pdf (PDF preview)

#1 1 year ago

UPDATED 11JAN2020 w. troubleshooting.

Just picked up a Congo - was completely functional when tested before purchase.  Game was 100% working with no errors until the DMD and sound started cutting in and out intermittently until it went out completely.

The sequence of errors looked like this:
-  operated normally then an orange band appeared across the display.
- powered cycled the game (30s not a quick on off)
- game played normally for about a minute longer then orange band appeared again
- when power cycled, A/V board does not have power.
- Lower playfield will play with no issues but display and sound are both dead.  Obviously, Menu functions not accessible.

Symptoms and troubleshooting performed:
- LED 501 does not light
- LEDs on CPU and power driver all functioning normally per manual
- all ribbon cables and other AV board connections reseated at both ends.
- AV board fuses F601/602/501/502 all checked for continuity.  OK
- all other fuses checked on CPU and power driver board; OK

Status
- J606 voltage checked and is identical to schematic
- Fuses: F601 reads 51.5V vs 62 in schematic. F602 reads -63.6 (vs. -125/113). Both fuses 501 and 502 have zero V.
- J605 to Tx secondary: pins 1/2 51.5V pins 3/4 -64.6V. Pins 5-11 zero volts.

It would seem strange that only part of the Tx secondary is dead??

Any assistance greatly appreciated!

Congo

AV board.pdf
#2 1 year ago
Quoted from Redback37:

UPDATED 11JAN2020 w. troubleshooting.
Just picked up a Congo - was completely functional when tested before purchase.  Game was 100% working with no errors until the DMD and sound started cutting in and out intermittently until it went out completely.
The sequence of errors looked like this:
-  operated normally then an orange band appeared across the display.
- powered cycled the game (30s not a quick on off)
- game played normally for about a minute longer then orange band appeared again
- when power cycled, A/V board does not have power.
- Lower playfield will play with no issues but display and sound are both dead.  Obviously, Menu functions not accessible.
Symptoms and troubleshooting performed:
- LED 501 does not light
- LEDs on CPU and power driver all functioning normally per manual
- all ribbon cables and other AV board connections reseated at both ends.
- AV board fuses F601/602/501/502 all checked for continuity.  OK
- all other fuses checked on CPU and power driver board; OK
Status
- J606 voltage checked and is identical to schematic
- Fuses: F601 reads 51.5V vs 62 in schematic. F602 reads -63.6 (vs. -125/113). Both fuses 501 and 502 have zero V.
- J605 to Tx secondary: pins 1/2 51.5V pins 3/4 -64.6V. Pins 5-11 zero volts.
It would seem strange that only part of the Tx secondary is dead??
Any assistance greatly appreciated!
Congo[quoted image]

Have you checked all connectors in lower cabinet coming from main transformer? Unplug and replug them. Maybe one is loose.

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Have you checked all connectors in lower cabinet coming from main transformer? Unplug and replug them. Maybe one is loose.

I was able to go over and see the machine, I can confirm that I did do this. Might check the continuity on the wires from transformer to AV board next.

#4 1 year ago

Update:

Checked J604 pins output on AV board and at end of cable just before it plugs into the DMD board (both the same so not a wire in here): 
Pin 1 - -114.6 (LOW)
Pin 2 -88.9V (LOW)
Pin 3 - key
Pins 4 and 5 - 0V (ground)
Pin 6 - +5.1V (OK)
Pin 7 -  +11.7V (OK)
Pin 8 -  +62.5V (OK)

Rechecked all connections to transformer.

Rang out wires between J605 and Tx - good continuity.

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from Redback37:

Update:
Checked J604 pins output on AV board and at end of cable just before it plugs into the DMD board (both the same so not a wire in here): 
Pin 1 - -114.6 (LOW)
Pin 2 -88.9V (LOW)
Pin 3 - key
Pins 4 and 5 - 0V (ground)
Pin 6 - +5.1V (OK)
Pin 7 -  +11.7V (OK)
Pin 8 -  +62.5V (OK)
Rechecked all connections to transformer.
Rang out wires between J605 and Tx - good continuity.

The high voltage section of the WPC95 A/V board has 2 circuits the 62v and the -113v/-125v.

J605-1/2 (80v AC) input is correctly producing 62v DC (J604-8 62.5v) - not sure why/how you get a different input voltage at F601 (51.5v) and possibly your measurement of J605-3/4 (100v AC) at F602 (-63.6v) is not right either??

The HV power circuits do fail and best to simply replace the entire HV section on the board. Here is the HV repair kit that Marco sells https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/WPC-SEMIHV20516

ChrisHibler might be able to add some further insight or advise how to best measure the input voltage from the transformer

#6 1 year ago

Here's the proper kit for that particular board:
www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=WPC95-HVP-KIT

But all you need to look at is the negative side.
This includes Q4, Q5, Q6, D1, D18 and associated resistors.

There is a second negative regulator which should be 12V lower than the -125 but is actually off by 25V.
This second regulator includes D3, Q7, R43, R44 but get the -125 going first then worry about the -113.

For trouble shooting these - start at the rectified DC input and work forwards or backwards depending on what you get. To measure the DC rectified power - with meter grounded, measure the DC voltage at the anode (non-banded end) of D12 or D13.

#7 1 year ago

Thank you all; I will check these components and get back to you.

Of note: I re-checked the J605 in VAC. Voltage at receptacle tonight was 123.0V

1/2 - 86.5V
3/4 - 109V
5/6 to 7/8 - Zero
5/6 to 10/11 - 13.1V

Then, I checked the output from the secondary side of the TX upstream

Gray - to - Gray/White: 13.3V (vs. 18V published on the schematic)
Gray - to - Gray/Green: 26.7V (vs. 36V)
Gray/Wh to Gray/Gr: 13.4V (vs. 18)

Question: The Congo Transformer installed and per the Owners manual is WPC 5610-14515-00. The scematic i have for the Congo shows TX 5610-14515-01. I wonder if the published values for -00 are different??

One final item. I'm sitting here writing all of this up and out of the blue, the machine BONGs once in the background and now LED501 is alive again. Still no DMD but what the hell. I played it a bit, then power cycled it; LED501 off again.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from Redback37:

Thank you all; I will check these components and get back to you.
Of note: I re-checked the J605 in VAC. Voltage at receptacle tonight was 123.0V
1/2 - 86.5V
3/4 - 109V
5/6 to 7/8 - Zero
5/6 to 10/11 - 13.1V
Then, I checked the output from the secondary side of the TX upstream
Gray - to - Gray/White: 13.3V (vs. 18V published on the schematic)
Gray - to - Gray/Green: 26.7V (vs. 36V)
Gray/Wh to Gray/Gr: 13.4V (vs. 18)
Question: The Congo Transformer installed and per the Owners manual is WPC 5610-14515-00. The scematic i have for the Congo shows TX 5610-14515-01. I wonder if the published values for -00 are different??
One final item. I'm sitting here writing all of this up and out of the blue, the machine BONGs once in the background and now LED501 is alive again. Still no DMD but what the hell. I played it a bit, then power cycled it; LED501 off again.

Was this game a re-import? Is it set up for the correct voltage? Perhaps it is set too low?

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Was this game a re-import? Is it set up for the correct voltage? Perhaps it is set too low?

yes this is a re-import, we were troubleshooting the transformer voltages last night.

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from Berserk:

yes this is a re-import, we were troubleshooting the transformer voltages last night.

The 12 pin plug in the power box is used to set the input voltage. The first pic shows the pin connections for 120V USA. You may have a DBV (Dollar Bill Validator) connection, the red circle in the 2nd pic shows how the plug should be wired which is the same voltage settings as the first pic but has the extra wires going the DBV connectors. If you have low line voltage at your place use the pinouts in the left diagram.

The other thing to potentially change is the fuse in the power box, from the WPC95 Schematics manual if the machine was in a country with 200-240V it'll have a 4A fuse and you'll need to swap it out for an 5A.

Molex pinout for US 120V (resized).jpgvoltage jumper (resized).JPG
#11 1 year ago
Quoted from Manny65:

The 12 pin plug in the power box is used to set the input voltage. The first pic shows the pin connections for 120V USA. You may have a DBV (Dollar Bill Validator) connection, the red circle in the 2nd pic shows how the plug should be wired which is the same voltage settings as the first pic but has the extra wires going the DBV connectors. If you have low line voltage at your place use the pinouts in the left diagram.
The other thing to potentially change is the fuse in the power box, from the WPC95 Schematics manual if the machine was in a country with 200-240V it'll have a 4A fuse and you'll need to swap it out for an 5A.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Thanks Manny, I was looking for that reference but could not find it.

#12 1 year ago

That's great stuff Manny, thank you! We hadn't considered the wiring at the molex connector. I do remember seeing a pigtail coming off of the molex, so you maybe on to something with it.

We will also check the fuse, we did this before to see if it was good (it was) but didn't check the amps. We will check these tonight!

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from Berserk:

That's great stuff Manny, thank you! We hadn't considered the wiring at the molex connector. I do remember seeing a pigtail coming off of the molex, so you maybe on to something with it.
We will also check the fuse, we did this before to see if it was good (it was) but didn't check the amps. We will check these tonight!

Let us know what you find or if your voltage jumper is different post a pic of it - really interested to find out what's going on here

The fact the LED 501 (5v) is intermittent would seem that you have other issues besides the high voltage to the DMD

#14 1 year ago

Yeah, keep us posted on this. I'm very curious what the actual issue is, and how you end up solving it.

#15 1 year ago

Ok update.

Checked the 12 pin plug at the power box, everything is wired correctly per the picture in Manny's post. Confirmed that fuse inside is a 5A and is good. Checked wiring from power box to transformer, wires are good. We wanted to check and see if the proper voltage was coming off the power box, but the problem is that we can't seem to find them on the flow diagram (voltages from power box to transformer), the voltages coming off the transformer are there, but like redback already posted there were low voltages.

Also did a AV board swap to confirm that wasn't the issue, still same problem with LED 501 on the AV board being intermittent. While this machine is a re-import the previous owner had it working for the past 10 years without issue. Something might have happened during the 2+ hour drive back but the machine was working when it was setup at the new location.

I'm stumped on this one, I want to say it's something with the transformer, but those rarely if ever fail? Thoughts?

#16 1 year ago

This board has three separate functional areas.

- High voltage circuitry for the plasma display.
- Digital logic circuitry for the sound and the dot matrix controller.
- Analog circuitry for amplification.

The high voltage circuitry is completely separate from the other two. There is a single electrical connection between them - the +12VU regulated by a 1N4742 to +12VR. Its sole purpose is to supply the voltages to operate the plasma display.

The digital logic is divided into the sound section and the dot matrix controller. The dot matrix controller is essentially under the control of the CPU through the ASIC. The sound is under the control of the ADSP-2105 through the ASIC. They are two separate logic areas but control is through the ASIC. I believe the diagnostic LED is under the control of the software running on the ADSP-2105.

If the digital section does not work the analog section is irrelevant. Get the digital side working first.

Test the high voltages and make sure they are within spec. Use a compatible plasma display if they are good to exclude the plasma display in the machine. Usually it's voltage problems rather than the display - if you want to play an odds game. You can also swap this board into another machine and see what happens.

The transformer is a red herring. You would have more significant problems elsewhere in the machine if the voltage selection at the transformer is incorrect. The VCT for the sound transformer secondary is fine. The sound regulates the transformer secondary to +5V and -5V.

The first step is to get a display. Without a display you can't see anything that the software is reporting.

1 week later
#17 1 year ago

Ok have another update.

Long story short, game works now sound and DMD.

So after doing a few hours of troubleshooting (I was only able to get over to Redback's place once a week). We had replaced the DMD with a colorDMD (this was a planned upgrade before this happened). I had hoped that since the low voltage numbers were good, that the DMD would work after install... well it did work, but no signal from the AV board. LED 501 did not light and no bongs on start up. With the HV cable from the transformer removed and a AV board swap the problem still remained, no sound, no DMD and no AV board power.

I got the bright idea of, lets unplug the speakers (J504 & J505) and the DMD ribbon (J603) from the AV board with J605 (transformer power) and J606 (Power driver board) still plugged in, just to see what happens. Turned on the machine.... LED 501 on the AV board lights up right away. I then plugged in J504 turned on machine, LED 501 lights up with a single bong and there is sound. I did the same for J505 and J603 hoping to isolate what was causing the issue in the first place and they all worked individually. So I plugged them all in again (J504, J505 and J603) and everything works again. Not sure what the root cause of it all was, grounding wires were checked multiple times before trying this and everything was re-seated, but this was the first time I tried to isolate each jumper/ribbon cable.

Game works great now and Redback can finally enjoy his game. Thank you everyone for your input in helping us solve this mystery, although I'm still not sure what was the root cause.

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from Berserk:

Thank you everyone for your input in helping us solve this mystery, although I'm still not sure what was the root cause.

Agreed. I was really hoping you'd find the real root cause.
Oh well....play away!
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from Berserk:

Ok have another update.
Long story short, game works now sound and DMD.
So after doing a few hours of troubleshooting (I was only able to get over to Redback's place once a week). We had replaced the DMD with a colorDMD (this was a planned upgrade before this happened). I had hoped that since the low voltage numbers were good, that the DMD would work after install... well it did work, but no signal from the AV board. LED 501 did not light and no bongs on start up. With the HV cable from the transformer removed and a AV board swap the problem still remained, no sound, no DMD and no AV board power.
I got the bright idea of, lets unplug the speakers (J504 & J505) and the DMD ribbon (J603) from the AV board with J605 (transformer power) and J606 (Power driver board) still plugged in, just to see what happens. Turned on the machine.... LED 501 on the AV board lights up right away. I then plugged in J504 turned on machine, LED 501 lights up with a single bong and there is sound. I did the same for J505 and J603 hoping to isolate what was causing the issue in the first place and they all worked individually. So I plugged them all in again (J504, J505 and J603) and everything works again. Not sure what the root cause of it all was, grounding wires were checked multiple times before trying this and everything was re-seated, but this was the first time I tried to isolate each jumper/ribbon cable.
Game works great now and Redback can finally enjoy his game. Thank you everyone for your input in helping us solve this mystery, although I'm still not sure what was the root cause.

I agree with Chris on this, but perhaps a ribbon cable or pin was tarnished causing this anomaly. We have all seen strange thing over the years with these games. Glad it is working and let's hope the "issue" stays away

Ken.

#20 1 year ago

Thanks to all for your valued and considered input. Also to Berserk for his great help although I think he's jonsing to be first in line when i SELL one day. I have consoled myself from all the sleepless nights by purchasing a full LED kit from PinballBulbs .

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