(Topic ID: 292044)

Confused about something that should be simple

By goldenboy232

2 years ago



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  • 9 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by sudsy7
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3CCA4D84-3464-476B-88BC-24D695ED6083 (resized).jpeg
#1 2 years ago

Hi guys, On my Gottlieb jungle, I noticed that when the ball kicker fires the ball across the trough switch into the Shooter Lane that sometimes the trough switch causes the ball kicker to fire a second time.

I can’t for the life of me figure out how that could be happening based on what I see here on the schematic.

What am I missing? What would be causing it to fire once when it sends the ball out of the out-hole, and again as it crosses the trough switch?

Thanks!

PS: ignore the highlighting

3CCA4D84-3464-476B-88BC-24D695ED6083 (resized).jpeg3CCA4D84-3464-476B-88BC-24D695ED6083 (resized).jpeg

#2 2 years ago

That issue is usually caused because the gap on the trough switch is too close. Open it up and you should be good.

#3 2 years ago

Hi Mike, I gapped it a little bit more and it looks totally fine but it’s still doing it. I can cause it to happen if I touch both blades of the trough switch with a metal tool, so that’s completing the circuit.

So it’s not a matter of it being too close and vibrating or something. When that circuit closes it’s causing the ball kicker to fire.could there be a common motor switch involved?

#4 2 years ago

Ball Kicker (left kickback) or Ball Return (out hole)? Assuming you mean Ball Return, that requires both the O/Ball Return relay to be active and the motor (switch 4C) to be turning. Are either of those happening? If not, could there be a short through the bottom arch or other metal bits under it?

/Mark

#5 2 years ago

Yes I mean Ball Return. When I close the ball trough switch the motor turns and both O and P fire too, thus firing the Ball Return.

#6 2 years ago

Hmm. The P relay should fire the O relay. And the O relay should always kick the Ball Return. I wonder if it isn't supposed to work that way even though the Ball Return kicks unnecessarily. I looked at Royal Flush and P doesn't fire O there.

On this game P doesn't start the Score Motor so maybe they just fired the O relay with P to get the Score Motor to turn. It's an extra kick but one less switch in the Score Motor circuit.

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from goldenboy232:

Hi Mike, I gapped it a little bit more and it looks totally fine but it’s still doing it. I can cause it to happen if I touch both blades of the trough switch with a metal tool, so that’s completing the circuit.
So it’s not a matter of it being too close and vibrating or something. When that circuit closes it’s causing the ball kicker to fire.could there be a common motor switch involved?

Is the switch in the outhole gapped adequately too? I could see where if it wasn't it might be closing briefly from the vibration when the trough switch fires everything off, and activate O again.

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Hmm. The P relay should fire the O relay. And the O relay should always kick the Ball Return. I wonder if it isn't supposed to work that way even though the Ball Return kicks unnecessarily. I looked at Royal Flush and P doesn't fire O there.
On this game P doesn't start the Score Motor so maybe they just fired the O relay with P to get the Score Motor to turn. It's an extra kick but one less switch in the Score Motor circuit.

Yes, it looks like that's how it works. It's interesting looking at the design evolution of these circuits. This design remained unchanged until somewhere around the time of Far Out (late '74) when they added a P make/break to the ball return kicker path to filter that second pulse out. Then around Fast Draw (mid '75), P got its own motor and hold switches and became the circuit we all know and love.

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from goldenboy232:

Hi guys, On my Gottlieb jungle, I noticed that when the ball kicker fires the ball across the trough switch into the Shooter Lane that sometimes the trough switch causes the ball kicker to fire a second time.

Check the ball kicker for "mushrooming" and then take a file to it. When the kicker blade gets shroomed, it can catch the plastic switch arm and close the outhole switch as the kicker arm returns back to it's resting position. That of course re-energizes the O relay which will re-fire the kicker.

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