(Topic ID: 250127)

Compressed air without bitterant for mylar removal?


By adamtoth

3 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 43 posts
  • 17 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by pinballinreno
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    #1 3 months ago

    Looking at my first attempt to remove mylar with the compressed air/freeze spray approach. I'm having trouble finding a brand that doesn't have a bitterant added. Any recommendations on something that is easily purchased from Amazon or another mail order vendor?

    Is the bitterant just an annoyance? Or can it negatively affect the playfield surface?

    #2 3 months ago

    I read somewhere that compressed air used for gun cleaning doesn't have the bitterant. I have previously bought this amazon.com link »

    #3 3 months ago

    I get this at walmart.

    15667865870038002651011908834493 (resized).jpg
    #4 3 months ago

    Never heard of bitterant and never heard you shouldn't use it.
    I study I use is just basic from Amazon or anywhere else and does have it.

    Ha funny now I remember accidently touching my tongue after and it being nasty as shit didn't know why.

    #5 3 months ago

    Yeah, kinda ridiculous. Kids eat tide pods and now inhale compressed air to get high. Not like they won't just find something else.

    #6 3 months ago

    Just get the stuff from Office Max, Office Depot.

    #7 3 months ago
    Quoted from Tomass:

    ... and now inhale compressed air to get high. .

    Get some starter fluid you damn kids!

    #8 3 months ago

    Yeah, or whipped cream in a can. They will find something.

    #9 3 months ago

    https://www.aetv.com/shows/intervention/season-4/episode-19

    More than one episode of that show is about people addicted to dusters. That's why the bitterant is in it.

    #10 3 months ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    https://www.aetv.com/shows/intervention/season-4/episode-19
    More than one episode of that show is about people addicted to dusters. That's why the bitterant is in it.

    Wow! What are we coming to?

    #11 3 months ago

    We're not becoming anything, people have been using inhalents forever... There's just more tds shows aboot it now.

    #12 3 months ago

    I get dry ice from my local ice cream place. It's like $2 but you have to use it right away.

    #13 3 months ago

    I use the canned super cold spray, its a bit more but works great.
    amazon.com link »

    #14 3 months ago

    Before you start your project I recommend reading through this thread as there may be some useful information:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/when-removing-mylar-goes-wrong

    Thanks
    Blake

    #15 3 months ago

    Just did my first mylar removal with freeze spray last night (8/26/2019). I pulled the mylar off of a diamond coat Whitewater. I used Insignia Best Buy store brand spray. It has "added biterant" It was $9.99 for 2 cans of spray and the process was easy and went forward with no issues, pulled paint, or insert lifting issues. Removing the sticky residue afterwards is a pain, but can be done with some elbow grease. I'm going to estimate 2-5 minutes to remove each set of mylar (upper playfield, around the bumpers, left and right slings). It took me 30 minutes to get the sticky residue off of just the left sling. There are many methods to use, but the most effective thing for me was gojo hand cleaner (original that only removes grease and not paint) on a wet paper towel sitting on top of the removed piece for 10 minutes or so, then vigorous removal via rubbing thumbs and using heavy cloth. I am going to try sponges tonight. I wasn't able to get quite all of the mylar around the bumpers, but it is literally under a bolder and you won't be able to see any issues once it is put back together. Good luck!

    #16 3 months ago
    Quoted from adamtoth:

    ... remove mylar with the compressed air/freeze spray approach. I'm having trouble finding a brand that doesn't have a bitterant added. Or can it negatively affect the playfield surface?

    I have removed a lot of mylar off playfields over the years. I have used real freeze spray, compressed air (upside down) and stuff with bitterant and without it. Bitterant does not affect the playfield. Most compressed air cans have bitterant to help stop kids from huffing it. I would just use the stuff that you can easily find.

    #17 3 months ago

    I used the stuff with bitterant ONCE. My fingers had that awful smell for days and I could smell it stuck in my nose for at least a day. Never again!

    #18 3 months ago
    Quoted from Tomass:

    My fingers had that awful smell for days

    #19 3 months ago

    I'm going to get burned here but anyway...
    Don't use the freeze method - flour or other homemade recipies for mylar removal if your game is clearcoated (90's pins).
    -Find a small edge and lift a small part of the mylar with your nail or a plastic pry tool.
    -Use white spirit where the glue is under the mylar. Let the mineral spirit attack the glue for a few seconds, then gently pull the mylar up and wipe the glue remnants under the mylar. If you don't lift too hard and have a little more patience you won't lift anything off your playfield and no glue will remain after you remove the mylar.
    -Continue pouring white spirit at the edge of the lifted mylar, lift the mylar slowly, and wipe the glue off the playfield until all mylar is removed.
    I have never used freeze or flour or such things.
    On older sensitive playfields I have used bicorbonate (baking soda) because it attacks the acids of the glue, but it is a veeeery slow process.

    #20 3 months ago
    Quoted from provato:

    Don't use the freeze method -...I have never used freeze or flour or such things.

    Well thanks for the expert tip.

    #21 3 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Well thanks for the expert tip.

    Well, luckily I’ve seen others lifting inserts or pf art using freeze spray, that’s why I never do it.
    If that makes me an “expert” to your eyes, thank you for your kind words.

    #22 3 months ago
    Quoted from provato:

    If that makes me an “expert” to your eyes, thank you for your kind words.

    It just makes you some guy talking out of your ass, so a normal pinsider

    You've seen art lifting on a diamond coated PF with freeze spray? That would be new to me...but hey I've only done it a bunch of times.

    Now older PF is a diff'rent thing altogether.

    #23 3 months ago

    It seems to me, since you are the one that haven't tried my method, that you are also the one talking out of your ass.

    As I said earlier, I have been called by people in order to minimize the damage to their pf after freeze spray, and my method was tested and had better results.
    I also said I wouldn't try it on e.g. a cyclone or older, as I don't know how the colours will react to white spirit. But I've tested it on funhouse and other non-diamond plated with great results.

    No hard feelings - I knew I would get burned for this.

    P.S.: YES I've also seen paint lifting with freeze spray on diamond plated pfs around inserts.

    #24 3 months ago

    I must be lucky, but I have had no ill effect from freeze spray. I know others have so I can only comment on my own experience. I make sure I hit the entire piece that is down first. Then I hit small areas a second and work across.

    #25 3 months ago

    Well, I started this, and grabbed the more expensive MG Chemicals brand from amazon that does not have a bitterant in it. This is an older playfield (Harlem Globetrotters) that’s been in a barn for many years, and has crazing in all the spots not covered by the full Mylar but ok looking paint underneath the Mylar. So far I got 1/3 of the Mylar off, and only a couple of very tiny dots of paint lifted. Very impressed with how the spray upside down is working.

    However I am going very carefully and using a lot of spray until I get almost no resistance when pulling, and have already gone through a 12oz can! At $20 per can, I’m gonna spend a lot getting this off. I think I’m gonna try the cheap stuff with bitterant added next from Costco or OfficeDepot. I was worried about it leaving a residue that might affect the paint or be difficult to remove, but it sounds like others use it and don’t have a problem with it other than the taste/smell.

    #26 3 months ago

    If the PF paint has a bunch of cracks beneath the mylar then freeze methods is one of the worst ways to remove it. All the micro pieces simply lift up along with the mylar at the time of removal. The heat method may render better results. But in reality, unless you your playfield beneath the mylar is in very nice shape with minimal to no cracking in the paint, mylar removal is a dangerous endeavor that can lead to many hours of touch ups.

    Fix inserts, pin pop any bubbles, polish the mylar, and enjoy the game.

    Thanks
    Blake

    #27 3 months ago

    Thanks Blake, read your Stargate thread, and understand where you are coming from.

    The paint under my Mylar is actually really nice, very little to no cracking. All the other paint not covered has lots of crazing. I want to clear coat this to protect those areas, which is why I am removing the Mylar. Also most of the inserts have sunk, leaving bubbles and cloudiness under the Mylar, many edges of the Mylar were starting to peel. So far it’s coming nicely. I guess the telling point will be when removing the adhesive.

    #28 3 months ago

    Did you check walmart? They keep it behind the counter in the electronics section because of the "inhalers", but it is cheap.

    #29 3 months ago
    Quoted from provato:

    P.S.: YES I've also seen paint lifting with freeze spray on diamond plated pfs around inserts.

    Not trying to be a hardass, I'm really curious. I'm no expert, but have probably done a dozen or so diamond PF's. How does art lift from a clear coated playfield (Diamond plate)? Is it destroying the clear coat too? Is the clear weaker around the inserts or subject to damage because of the substrate difference?

    #30 3 months ago
    Quoted from adamtoth:

    Thanks Blake, read your Stargate thread, and understand where you are coming from.
    The paint under my Mylar is actually really nice, very little to no cracking. All the other paint not covered has lots of crazing. I want to clear coat this to protect those areas, which is why I am removing the Mylar. Also most of the inserts have sunk, leaving bubbles and cloudiness under the Mylar, many edges of the Mylar were starting to peel. So far it’s coming nicely. I guess the telling point will be when removing the adhesive.

    Yea I am pumped to see your final results. Seems like your taking your time and doing it right which is showing in your current progression. Keep up the good work!

    Thanks
    Blake

    #31 3 months ago

    Ok, so pretty thrilled with how this came out.

    First of all, to answer this thread, I found two brands without a bitterant, you can see in the first pic the MG Chemicals brand, pretty expensive, and this CRC Duster brand from Home Depot, which worked just as good, and was less than half the cost.

    I ended up using almost 4 cans for the job. And used up quite a bit just trying to get the last piece off, which was the center pop bumper Mylar ring.

    The only paint lifted was a little around the black key lines on the large center Harlem inserts, which will be easy to touch up. Also a few tiny dots of blue paint near the Registered trademark symbol.

    Now on to glue removal, yuck.

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    #32 3 months ago

    Here are a few before pictures to compare with.

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    #33 3 months ago
    Quoted from adamtoth:

    The only paint lifted was a little around the black key lines on the large center Harlem inserts, which will be easy to touch up. Also a few tiny dots of blue paint near the Registered trademark symbol.
    Now on to glue removal, yuck.

    So good job first of all; but don't get cocky.
    The issue now is the glue removal is where a lot of the paint can come up. Be careful.

    #34 3 months ago
    Quoted from Tomass:

    Wow! What are we coming to?

    n6JjXW6 (resized).jpg
    #35 3 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    It just makes you some guy talking out of your ass, so a normal pinsider

    #36 3 months ago
    Quoted from provato:

    Well, luckily I’ve seen others lifting inserts or pf art using freeze spray, that’s why I never do it.

    Never had a problem with it before on my F-14 or my Sharkey's Shootout. Mylar came right up super nice. Flour and CP-100 mixture took the glue right off with finger action! Experts have recommended these methods. But I didn't have a lot of cracks and bubbles in the art work either.

    #37 3 months ago
    Quoted from robertmee:

    Not trying to be a hardass, I'm really curious. I'm no expert, but have probably done a dozen or so diamond PF's. How does art lift from a clear coated playfield (Diamond plate)? Is it destroying the clear coat too? Is the clear weaker around the inserts or subject to damage because of the substrate difference?

    Well, look at this thread: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/unbreaking-a-breakshot
    ...To see how paint/clearcoat can be lifted around inserts too. It can also be lifted around any place that the clear has cracked, dented or sunken inside crevices.

    I’ll probably find more threads like this if I search a bit more.
    This damage around inserts could certainly be avoided with the white spirit method.

    #38 3 months ago

    Capcoms don't have Diamondplate PFs as far as I know; although my Pinball Magic came up easy with freeze spray.
    Trying to think of typically shitty PFs...BOP is usually horrible but there were only a couple hundy DCs made

    #39 3 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Capcoms don't have Diamondplate PFs as far as I know; although my Pinball Magic came up easy with freeze spray.
    Trying to think of typically shitty PFs...BOP is usually horrible but there were only a couple hundy DCs made

    I am really tempted to search through the forums and find such lifted pieces on clear coated Williams/Bally/midway playfields...
    ...but I have better things to do with my free time than answering to the “pinside police”.

    #40 3 months ago
    Quoted from provato:

    I am really tempted to search through the forums and find such lifted pieces on clear coated Williams/Bally/midway playfields...
    ...but I have better things to do with my free time than answering to the “pinside police”.

    Supporting your position with facts doesn't really have anything to do with Pinside.

    Well if you get bored some day we'll still be here waiting for your proof

    #41 3 months ago
    Quoted from Tomass:

    I get this at walmart.[quoted image]

    Yup, stocked up on those when they were $1.99. Nice trigger and nozzle - works great.

    #42 3 months ago
    Quoted from sataneatscheese:

    Just did my first mylar removal with freeze spray last night (8/26/2019). I pulled the mylar off of a diamond coat Whitewater. I used Insignia Best Buy store brand spray. It has "added biterant" It was $9.99 for 2 cans of spray and the process was easy and went forward with no issues, pulled paint, or insert lifting issues. Removing the sticky residue afterwards is a pain, but can be done with some elbow grease. I'm going to estimate 2-5 minutes to remove each set of mylar (upper playfield, around the bumpers, left and right slings). It took me 30 minutes to get the sticky residue off of just the left sling. There are many methods to use, but the most effective thing for me was gojo hand cleaner (original that only removes grease and not paint) on a wet paper towel sitting on top of the removed piece for 10 minutes or so, then vigorous removal via rubbing thumbs and using heavy cloth. I am going to try sponges tonight. I wasn't able to get quite all of the mylar around the bumpers, but it is literally under a bolder and you won't be able to see any issues once it is put back together. Good luck!

    Adhesive removal in seconds.

    Use rapid tac adhesive remover.

    It's amazing, I removed total mylar glue in less than 5 mins.

    #43 3 months ago
    Quoted from adamtoth:

    Now on to glue removal, yuck

    Rapid tac adhesive remover.

    I just used it on a car bumper sticker that was 20 years old.

    Worked perfectly.

    I've also used it on 30 year old tape, crusty residue and recently weird honey-like degraded tape residue on my speaker panrl.

    It's just amazing.

    Its non-toxic and looks like goo gone, but it actually works. Unlike goo gone.

    I tried goo gone, it's a joke by comparison.

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