(Topic ID: 176750)

Competition in Pinball Products - PCBs, Mods, etc.

By acebathound

7 years ago



Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    #1 7 years ago

    Been creating PCBs for a few years now. Mainly diagnostic tools and nvram for pinball machines, but some other odds-and-ends for arcade games too. I got the bug back around 2012 or maybe a bit earlier. I had bread-boarded or perf-boarded some things and was tired of clunky messes of wires. I just thought it'd be cool to create a PCB I could hold in my hand and call my own. I think a good many of us doing PCB designs for pinball didn't go to school for EE. I took some courses in college, but found them too loaded with theory, not enough practice. Probably wouldn't have gotten into PCBs without pinball, learning how to fix machines & then wanting easier ways to diagnose them really helped me stay excited to learn more and more.

    From what I've experienced in the last 3 years creating PCB products, the pinball PCB market is *HIGHLY COMPETITIVE*. Everyone seems to think everyone else is making a boat-load of money & products are getting copied or ideas adopted to retain a competitive-advantage. Sometimes more apparent than others. The community doesn't so much see this, but I think the people creating PCBs do. It doesn't matter how niche the PCB is, even happens on niche diagnostic tools. I've seen my 64 Switch Tester design copied including the “silkscreen crosshair” very unique to my design.. I won't be linking that, but it's out there & very apparent it was copied. Some other ideas I've put out there have been adopted (or maybe the looser term would be that some ideas have "inspired people") as well. Obviously happening with aftermarket boards -- even power supplies designed by EE's that mention having thrown in a few extra unnecessary components just to identify if someone is copying their design. I've also had people email to tell me they're using the test equipment I sell to help test a new aftermarket driver board that already exists by 2 or 3 other people, since there's room for profit in it. Some people designing things get luckier than others, being able to ride out a unique design for YEARS before being affected -- many people not-so-lucky. Eventually all this stuff leads to cheaper designs, cheaper components used, lesser quality -- like any other product competing on price point alone.

    Does this exist with every pinball product/mod? I've always felt this is a bit of an "elephant in the room" among creators of things.. you know, discussing competition & how ideas get adopted quickly by others. I'd imagine it's wide-spread, not just PCBs.. but it sure feels like PCBs are a ton more competitive versus some of the products the modding community creates for playfields, etc. People want cheaper and cheaper prices.. and to an extent, enough of the motivation for others to produce the same thing is they're annoyed that prices are so high on certain items. What's funny is, I paid $100 for a small adapter board for an eprom programmer in the 90s.. it'd probably cost $5 or less to produce today. Prices are just all over the place like anything in this world, but it seems like PCB designs are under more scrutiny than other pinball products. Maybe I just feel that way because that's what I'm creating, or maybe it's because I have a general sense that people feel if they can buy an Amazon tablet for $40 then why should a diagnostic tool cost more than that?

    For me, sensing all this competition has changed the ways I'm handling any new ideas. I'd love to talk about new ideas going forward, I had a section on my website dedicated to that even (the “Pinitech Lab”) -- but despite drawing some interest and getting feedback, it also helps others to run with those ideas before I've had a chance. So I'm being a bit more cautious going forward with posting about new ideas. Not really how I'd like to do things, but kind of feeling like a necessary change.


    Just thought this might be an interesting topic to discuss by anyone creating things for the pinball community. Not at all just limited to PCB designs, but pretty much any pinball product. As people creating things, I think we all want to be successful.. see some financial reward from our time & efforts. See the community happy with our products. Personally, I think there's better and worse ways to compete – and it's far better to get to know your competitors personally a bit, talk things out & remain respectful toward eachother – than it is to get into price wars ultimately leading to each of you making peanuts & the community expecting a product priced so low that the quality suffers or it's no longer producible by anyone for that price point.

    I know I've made amends to some people that I was involved in some drama with at times, I'll continue to do so. I see it as the better step toward success in this hobby than viewing anyone doing anything similar as an enemy. Especially people that are able to create things to help save or breathe new life into machines. Everyone creating new and unique things has my respect.. regardless if it's PCBs, some type of mod, pinball t-shirts.. really anything that requires time, effort, creativity & ingenuity. It's difficult sometimes distancing yourself from the initial impact someone has on what you're doing, but I try to evaluate things as whether it's good for the hobby. And also take some of what I sense as competition as a "positive" kick-in-the-butt to streamline or improve products.. or a lesson learned. Lots of lessons learned doing this stuff, I'm sure many more to follow

    #2 7 years ago

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?

    Custom niche stuff is always going to be more expensive than a mass-produced gadget on Amazon. But, making stuff is a lot easier, accessible, and cheaper now than it was 5 or 10+ years ago.

    It sucks that some people rip off other peoples' work just to make a buck, but that's just how it goes sometimes. It happens to everyone--not just in the pinball world. It just hurts original creators a lot more since the pinball niche is so small to begin with.

    #3 7 years ago

    Hopefully not everyone here is trying to save a penny but also values innovation and customer support.

    Eric

    #4 7 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?
    Custom niche stuff is always going to be more expensive than a mass-produced gadget on Amazon. But, making stuff is a lot easier, accessible, and cheaper now than it was 5 or 10+ years ago.
    It sucks that some people rip off other peoples' work just to make a buck, but that's just how it goes sometimes. It happens to everyone--not just in the pinball world. It just hurts original creators a lot more since the pinball niche is so small to begin with.

    Well said Pretty much what you have to accept if you're creating anything... along with understanding that as far as the consumer goes, if there's products that do the same thing at a cheaper price -- regardless if prior to that it was someone's unique innovation/idea, cheaper price wins.

    It's kind of easier if you're just creating things that already exist by multiple vendors, so you have reasonable assurance there can't be much drama. Then there's already a market for it & you won't get bent out of shape yourself if others create the same thing, because it wasn't your "baby". That said, it's just damn cool to create new things never seen before or thought of too. Much riskier & if it's something that starts selling well you're in for much more of an emotional ride if you're sensing others affecting what you're doing. But there's just this huge sense of accomplishment in pulling off ideas that haven't been executed yet.

    Reply

    Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

    Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

    Donate to Pinside

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


    This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/competition-in-pinball-products-pcbs-mods-etc and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

    Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.