(Topic ID: 104189)
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Comet
Williams, 1985
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Berea, OH
1 month later
Quoted from CraigC:In the Comet Club!
Does anyone have a source for the orange corkscrew ramp? Mine has a black repro and looks sucky by comparison.-c
They must have sold a ton of the black repros, because I see those all the time. I would like to have an orange corkscrew ramp, these also had a black rim. See if you can find two 
Quoted from pinballjah:After looking at three Comets in brutal condition, finally picked up one in decent shape. Comets really seems to have a lot of wear issues on the playfield. A few of the Comets I have looked at had really faded backglasses and this one seems to have retained its original colour well. Here are a couple photos.
Yeah, Comets usually lead a hard life. That one you picked up looks pretty darn good for an old Comet. I picked up two this year, one for the work break room, and a second one recently for my collection. The one for work had significant spots over 1" in diameter down to the wood at the shooter lane reentry point above the right sling, in the circles of the cycle jump, and along the entry to the corkscrew. The one for home much better (pic below) The one for home has a lot of peeling on the backbox laminate, but both backglasses are excellent.
Quoted from pinballjah:I had a couple issues that I wanted to see if someone had experienced before. On the left side lane, underneath the Comet image, there is a piece of red plastic. This seems to be connected at one end but is interfering with the ball sometimes coming down the left side lane. Should this piece have two screws to keep it in place or is it likely broken? Should the ball be able to make it through the orange ramp on the top left side when shot with the plunger? I'm not sure if this is the original ramp assembly or maybe it has been repaired at some point? Here are a couple photos. Thanks for the help!
Thats not the right plastic on the top photo. Not sure about the corkscrew, what is the ball hitting - the ramp flap not touching the playfield?
1 week later
Quoted from pinballjah:Does anyone know if I can order these parts from somewhere; I need the red plastic that covers the left side bumper and I am missing one of the red bumpers at the bottom on the left side. Thanks for the assistance.
http://www.actionpinball.com/parts.php?item=03-7034-9
The red posts
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/03-8319-9
ebay.com link: WILLIAMS COMET 85 PINBALL MACH PLAYFIELD PLASTIC RED POSTS METAL FASTENERS
4 weeks later
Quoted from Jason43:Is it normally tough to get the ball up the corkscrew ramp? I had some flipper issues and did a complete rebuild on both, but the right still seems like it's on the weak side. I can get the ball up and around the corkscrew if I hit it just right, but most of the time, it stops halfway and comes back down. Just trying to figure out if I have another issue I need to look at, or if this is just normal.
I get partial shots occasionally, but it really shouldn't be that difficult - especially with good flippers. Perhaps your game is set a little on the steep side? Try lowering the pitch 1 or 2 degrees and see if that helps.
3 weeks later
Quoted from Jason43:Anyone know offhand if the high score reset switch inside the coin door is momentary? Mine had the button ripped off of it prior to me owning it and I want to order a replacement.
Both the HS reset and advance (black capped) are momentary. The advance up/down (red capped) is a latching type.
1 month later
Quoted from Mikedenton49:Quick question for the tech minded.
Just upgraded to all Comet top end leds. What amazing difference. It's bright and crisp now. One issue however.
The flashers I put in are staying on all the time. They do brighten when they are activated but they should go off right?
Did you remove the warming resistors?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/removing-warming-resistors
Quoted from vid1900:Don't use ANY LEDs to light the backbox.
Comet backglass has a warm yellow tone that is killed by any LEDs, even Warm White.
Swap any #44 bulbs for #47. The 47s have way less heat and provide the correct color spectrum for the glass.
Second that. I kept my Comet at home as incandescent. The one here in our break room came with LEDs installed in it, and I left it that way. It looks terrible compared to #47s.
2 weeks later
Quoted from cocomonkeh:Also, is there a good way to cut down on hits to the glass from the jump ramp?
Although the ball hitting the glass doesn't bother me, my game has an aftermarket ramp with a significantly longer ramp flap - only occasionally do I get a glass hit on this ramp. The Comet I have at work has the standard OEM ramp with a short flap, and gets a lot of glass hits
Quoted from cocomonkeh:New displays are on their way. Game seems to be behaving fine. Just needs a good cleaning. It throws out a board error (5) every so often, but a few resets fix it. Weird. Any thoughts anyone?
Possibly you missed replacing an acid damaged part. It does not have to be visible damage either, as corrosion can migrate up the leg of a part and into the component body. Just one speculation.
Quoted from cocomonkeh:I just don't get why it works and passes about half the time. Of course, it's a System 9 with no real replacement board available
Hopefully, when I can see what its doing, I can track it down.
Well, that's the nature of intermittent problems in electronics. Many times I just hope that a device fails completely - usually easier to find that way. An intermittent can be caused by a lot of things: a borderline digital signal in the ambiguous range that can't be accurately determined as a 1 or 0, a timing problem, noise in the signals - and a host of other things.
One thing I would do is thoroughly check the power supply, a power supply that doesn't come up stable and accurate at every power up can cause weird intermittent problems as well. One thing that can help identify this is to substitute with a known stable supply - which is also easier to find than a replacement MPU. I had the same problem with a Pinbot, and that turned out to be a bad connection at the power connector to the mainboard. It took months to locate, as there wasn't anything visibly wrong with the connector. The female pin socket just wasn't making a gas tight connection.
4 weeks later
Quoted from dmieczko:Just curious about the proper setup of this lane guide. I have seen Comets with one small rubber on each post, a 1 1/2" rubber stretching over both posts, and the lane guide turned one way or the other... Anyone positive how this is supposed to be set up?
Should be 1 1/2" rubber stretched around both posts, according to the manual. The lane guide flat part faces left toward the return-to-play outlane, otherwise ball will hang up in the inlane drain. Note that the upper post is moveable for conservative/moderate/liberal setting...so that is something to check into if you are having problems.
2 months later
1 week later
Quoted from johnrezz:One question:
What is missing in the annotated the image of the Flasher control board? 2 wires with terminations on them but just hanging loose... I am guessing it has something to do with the wire nuts next to it... It took me a long time to get the Flasher circuit to work!!!
You are missing the flasher relay for the backboard GI
1 week later
Quoted from Heaterguy:To be sure I took the Glass off and manually triggered the 1986 lights and manually trigger the million rollover it does not work however the million rollover switch works and scores when it’s not on the million light
Put in test mode and use a ball to make sure all the rollover switches under the cycle jump ramp function when the ball rolls over them. If the ball misses a switch or a switch is not working well, that will cause a missed millions even if the topmost hole rollover is working.
5 months later
Quoted from Heaterguy:Tech help needed.
My lower GI lights (behind stand up targets and lower bumpers) are not lighting.....See pic of CPU board I J7 connector.
GI lighting has absolutely nothing to do with the CPU board. All GI circuits are fed from power board connector 3J8.
Quoted from Heaterguy:Really? that makes complete sense to me as that has been the case on my other machines and I respect/appreciate your advice, however see pic of comet MPU pinout (IJ5-IJ8) and that's where I have the burnt resistors...this game has a strobing /flashing light effect that also controls GI lighting 9at times) so I can see where the MPU would be involved.
You could have more than one problem too. Yes the burnt resistors are a part of the lamp matrix for the controlled lamps. If the GI also has a problem, that is still separate. The only involvement the MPU has would be to send a solenoid control signal to the relay that flashes the GI. If there is a problem, you'll likely be able to hear the relay clicking on or off. I'm not sure what "strobing" effect you are describing. Perhaps a video will help here. Are you using LEDs or regular incandescent in the GI?
You're measurement of the resistors, even at 30 ohms which is out of tolerance, I doubt would cause a problem. Just find that resistor in the schematics, see what row/colum of lamps that is involved with, then look at the controlled lamps and see what they are doing. I thought you had only a problem with the GI lamps.
Quoted from BrewNinja:Once the connectors burn, its time to replace the connector and the headers on the board. Otherwise it just comes back again and again (and probably what happened this time). Leaving it on shouldn't be an issue otherwise.
If you put LED's in, no need to change anything. Just stick them in.
Glad you got it figured out!
+1 remember how old these games are, and once the connectors develop a small amount of resistance, they start to burn and then that increases the resistance more, which causes them to burn more - a vicious cycle. I replace them with Trifurcon brass molex connectors and brand new header pins. This will run your incandescents for a long time. If you change to LEDs, you'll reap the benefit of much lower current draw through the connectors, increasing the longetivity. Still, no worries if you use incandescent and replace the old connectors. Cleaning them may have gotten them to work, but for long term reliability it's much better to replace them.
Quoted from vid1900:You can reuse the plastic female connector, but you should replace the internal sockets with Trifurcons.
You can reuse the connector, IF it is good shape. If it is burned and dried out, it could crack with repeated plug/unplug cycles. Yoiu can buy long lengths of plastic connector housings and cut them to length for the number of pins you need. The *best* method is to not combine new parts with old in this example.
4 weeks later
Quoted from Parkshow30:Tested the solenoid for the right slingshot by disconnecting the wire and turning the game on and it is getting a constant 28 volts to it. Everything else on the game is working fine. Thinking I might need a new IC chip, the one in position U7? Or could be driver transistor Q77? Both? Any thoughts? Thanks.
All coils get a constant supply voltage to them. The driver transistor acts a switch to complete the circuit path to ground, which causes current to flow. Start by checking driver transistor Q77. For details read here:
3b. When thing don't work: Checking Transistors/Coils (locked on coils)
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wms11/index1.html
Quoted from Parkshow30:. First time the switch for the right kicker went on it kicked on and stayed on.
If a transistor is shorted, the kicker would lock on Immediately...there would be no waiting period for the switch to be activated. - as in what you just experienced. Your leaf switches for the slings are shorting and this is what is causing your lock on condition.
Quoted from Parkshow30:So I would need new leaf switches?
Not necessarily. One thing to look at is to make sure that at rest the leaf switches open with a sufficient gap, and check them with a multimeter to make sure they are not shorting.
Quoted from vid1900:I believe that the only active coil in attract mode is the saucer kick out (so that if the game lost power, the ball could be returned to the trough upon power-up).
I don't think that the slingshots would respond to the switches unless a game has started.
I could be wrong, somebody check my math....
I verified your math on our Comet, the slings are inactive and the saucer kick out (funhouse) is the only one that is active in attract mode.
Quoted from Parkshow30:Going to replace the IC chip at U7 and see if that helps.
Sounds like you are shotgunning and just fixing by luck rather than troubleshooting. You can use an oscilloscope, logic probe or even a DMM to test signal flow in and out of that IC when in solenoid test mode, to actually determine if it is suspect. The pulse train is shown in the diagram below (which is actually a system 11, but similar)
Quoted from Parkshow30:In attract mode there is no power running to the left kicker
There should be power here anytime the power switch is turned on. All solenoid power comes directly from the power supply. Does the left kicker even work? The 7402 IC gates (U6,U7) are what is turned on with the flipper enable signal at game start or test mode - that gate will then allow the switches to create a ground path to the solenoid. Keep in mind that power is not turned on and off to operate solenoids - GROUND is turned on and off.
s11ssol1 (resized).pngQuoted from drsfmd:I took a quick look online but didn’t see any sort of interchange or compatibility table.
You should read your Data East repair bible again:
TIP122: used at Q39-Q46 (multiplexed), Q8-Q13 (special coils), Q23-Q30 (constant power), Q72-Q79 (lamp matrix row returns) on the CPU board. When replacing a TIP122, always replace a TIP122 with a TIP102 instead. The TIP102 is a more robust version of the TIP122. Equivalent transistors for TIP122 = NTE261; TIP102 = NTE2343.
1 month later
Quoted from jaytrem:I seem to recall something about there being an option to turn the commas off with some of their models. Probably worth giving Pinscore a call.
Jumper JP1 on some PinScore. If it is installed it enables lighting up the commas.
e689dc8ece34c08ed6a13cddfffb7a72c34ffaf7 (resized).jpgQuoted from vid1900:Yeah, your's looks different (I see Revision B on your boards)
Yes, wrong revision it seems. Yours is -BB should be -P. Photo is my Comet display board
Williams COMET*
* These games may require a different PinScore™ model depending upon your original display part numbers. Check your original display board part number and use the corresponding PinScore™ part number: Williams D-10749 or PCB #5760-10846-XX (-XX is the board revision number) = PinScore™ Model PS-10749-P
1004180610 (resized).jpg 1 month later
Quoted from madmatt1:Can I please get a little help......
I'm having a little problems with my out-hole. No matter what I do it just will not kick.
I can't get it to kick in the test mode
The coil looks good; it is not stuck or rubbing on anything
It is getting power; about 30 volts to each side
I've changed Q47. (no help)
I know the switch to the out-hole is working because the game "see" when I drain....
Anyone got a guess???
Thank you,
MM
OUT
P.S. Side note.. my knocker is not working either. But that is much let important. (new coil and new Q60 )
If you have power to both sides of the coil, the find the trigger side of the coil (NOT the power side that is daisy chained to other coils!) and briefly ground it with a jumper or alligator clip lead to ground. It should fire. That will tell you if the coil and mechs are working correctly.
If that works, find the driver transistor for that coil and briefly ground the metal tab of the transistor.,,This will tell you if the connectors and wiring are good from the driving transistor to the coil.
Quoted from madmatt1:Nope.... either the Q47 to metal (via alligator clip) nor black wire of the coil to metal.
I'm guessing my coil is shot.... I will replace the coil and report back later today.
Thanks,
MM
OUT
OK...as long as you are certain that the "metal" you jumped to was a valid ground.
Wait...you said you measured about 30VDC to each side of the coil...then you replaced the coil, correct? do you still have the 30VDC to each side of the coil? There is nothing else there if you ground the trigger side of the coil - it has to fire. The only thing that could be wrong if it does not would be either you no longer have the 30VDC, or you didn't jump to a valid ground....or your jumper doesn't have continuity.
Edit: Whatever you grounded to take the measurement with the meter would be the ground to use
Quoted from madmatt1:So.... is this still a wiring problem??
your welcome. We don't know yet. This is a process requiring logical steps. You know now about half the circuit is good: Power--->coil.
Now briefly jump the transistor metal mounting tab of Q47 to ground. If it fires, then wiring from the transistor to the coil is good. If it doesn't, then you have a problem somewhere between transistor and coil, could be connector, could be a wire problem, etc.. Note that this does not test the transistor itself.
Quoted from madmatt1:Yea... no it does not fire. I just changed that Q47 out last week. I'll have to try and track the wires.....
Thanks,
MM
OUT
Test continuity from the tab to the header pin, this will check for proken or burned traces or cracked solder joints on the transistor or header pin. If that's good then you are left with female connector or wiring. The IDC connector pinch point is a common area for failure on games with IDC connectors. Then you are left with pinched or severed wire, and if you still cannot find a visible break, but the wire shows open, you may be stuck with replacing the entire wire from connector to solenoid.
Quoted from madmatt1:Is there a way to isolate it? Should I cut off the red wire on the solenoid? Would that help?
Thanks,
MM
OUT
No need to cut the wire. Check for solenoid DC voltage at the coil red power supply wire with a DMM. Once you verified supply voltage at the coil, then briefly short Q47's metal tab to ground. The coil should fire. This test tests all the downstream wiring from the transistor output to the coil (note it does not test the transistor itslef) If it does not, you have either a break or a high resistance somewhere - common points would be a cracked solder joint under the transistor, a burned trace on the board, a cracked header pin, improperly mating or oxidized header pin male or female, bad crimp on the connectors pin, pinched wire, bad solder on the coil tab trigger wire, defective coil...to name a few. One of the most common, the IDC connector pinch point no longer breaking through the insulation and mating with the wire underneath. Sometimes harder to detect with a meter, because as you press on the "teeth" of the IDC the pressure of your meter probe makes the connection!
1 week later
A transistor has 3 connections, and each part has a name. A base (B) collector (C) and emitter (E) see pic below. When wired as a switch for pinball, a low voltage signal turn on the collector to emitter junction to complete the circuit. If the emitter of the transistor does not have continuity to ground, even though the transistor is good, there will be no current flow to the load.
It's just one possible way this circuit can fail.
Screenshot_2018-11-26-11-06-41~01 (resized).pngQuoted from Krivicide:Hello all,
I've been having an issue with a pop bumper that engages as soon as I turn the machine on. I replaced the driver transistor, everything worked for a short time and then the issue cropped back up.
Reading about others with the same issue, it sounds like the suggestion is to replace the driver transistor, pre-driver transistor, and the diode all at the same time. Only problem is, I've been poring over the schematics and I can't for the life of me determine which pre-driver transistor and diode I should be replacing. The transistor in question is Q81 for the left pop bumper.
Any advice? Thanks!
Make sure that this is not a switch problem or shorted switch line first! Special solenoids (usually pops and slings) have two paths of activation, either by the CPU or by direct switches. The usual cause of special solenoid circuit failure is a stuck switch that locks the associated solenoid on. Don't replace things randomly (shotgun) except as a last resort.
Quoted from Krivicide:Thanks for your reply. There was nothing visibly wrong with the switch - no shorts, appropriate gaps, and so on.
Visual only isn't good enough for me. I'd go with a voltmeter (DMM), oscilloscope or logic probe. Start at U7 pins 11,12, and 13. Pin 12 can go low if C58 shorted as well as a switch closure. If you check those pins from there you can go downstream or upstream with the signal flow. It is true in many cases: The coil could of locked on because the switch might have been closed for too long at one moment, and maybe all it has took out is the driver transistor. I just prefer to do a little troubleshooting up front to save me some grief if there is more to it than that..and with special solenoids the direct switch section should always be examined.
Quoted from madmatt1:Well..... I screwed up again. I've been fight with this board for the last 3+ months; so I'm waving the White Flag and sending the board to (http://chrishiblerpinball.com). I'm sure he can fix my board.
On to another subject..... while my pin is down how to do people feel about Playfield Protectors?
Are they a pain to install?
Are they worth it?
Should I even install it since my playfield is in "ok" condition (6.5 out of 10)?
Or should I just wax the hell out of my playfield again?
Thanks,
MM
OUT
Meh. I have no need for playfield protectors. I waxed mine but they are probably due since its been about a year. No need to go crazy.
Quoted from jaytrem:That's very similar to what I have now. Did you put the clear bodies in? I think ideally I'd like the rings lit on the bottom but not the top. Was it the top lights that you didn't like?
Good tip, thanks.
I kept everything stock on the pops. The Afterburners lit up the playfield niceely, actually had to clean again between the pops. I was shooting for enhancement, not modification.
0128182044 (resized).jpgQuoted from Nyraiderfan:Thank you, can't believe I can't put in the initials, my sons are 25 and 22 years old and really never experienced a "pinball" arcade, I picked up high speed the week before and not only do they love pinball but the fact of chasing a high score, they are a little disappointed in not being able to put in their initials with comet.
That's how it is with older mahines. The Comet uses a System 9 CPU, circa 1985. The following rendition, Williams System 11 introduced around 1986 and used in your later High Speed pinball allowed the entering of HS initials. Early solid state games only had 7 segment digital displays. When Alphanumeric Displays having more segments were introduced, it became possible to display letters of the alphabet.
EM games from even earlier times included a pocket knife to carve both the scores and your initials in the side of the cabinet
2 weeks later
Quoted from Pinogrady:wayout440 vid1900 Thank you for your reply and upvote for the EOS...I replaced the left one last night and wow...that was it...I bought parts to rebuild both flippers as well...but did just the EOS to learn and tinker this time...I will rebuild the next time something goes awry.
I hope you know how much those of us with less experience appreciate your help and the time you take in responding to things that are elementary for you. Take care and Happy New Year!
Thanks for the nice compliment. We just like to keep the past alive.
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