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(Topic ID: 171786)

ColorDMD - LCD versus LED?


By goatdan

4 years ago



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  • 814 posts
  • 260 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by LukyDuck
  • Topic is favorited by 96 Pinsiders

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5 key posts have been marked in this topic

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #3 Vendor update on available combinations Posted by Dmod (4 years ago)

Post #23 Vendor update on hardware revision for future display boards Posted by Dmod (4 years ago)

Post #30 Led displays take less power than lcd setups Posted by Dmod (4 years ago)

Post #64 Discussion on smoothing algorithm Posted by Dmod (4 years ago)

Post #90 Video of the led display in spiderman Posted by bobukcat (4 years ago)


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#718 4 months ago

Did anyone go through the LED vs LCD choice on the WPT? I only have one pin and it's the WPT (World Poker Tour). I have no side by side reference and if I pick one I won't be comparing one to the other...I'll just be good with what I have. I'm thinking the red cards deserve LED color/glare filter...but I'm not sure what you guys mean by the smoothing of the animations and how that affects WPT. I'm borderline videophile when it comes to TV's...I have several plasma TVs still in service due to the superior black levels but I'm not sure that applies here.

Any help on what I should select for the WPT is appreciated.

#724 4 months ago

It sounds like it's unanimous. Thanks all for your help. LED it will be.

#725 4 months ago
Quoted from davebart5:

I love my ColorDMD LED's, and with the PinballLife glare guard it looks amazing. It's a must have addition if you do go LED. Couldn't be happier with it.

Quoted from zene10:

+1 for glare guard on LEDs

Do I need to order the inner or outer mounting no glare film for the LED ColorDMD?

#733 4 months ago

Wow...just when I had a decision made and the LED in the cart. I only have one shot at this and have no idea if my title is better with LED or LCD. I'll never have a 2nd pin to compare so I won't know what I'm missing. I do love bright sharp colors. And really want the reds to shine since it's a playing card based pin. I think LED is the way to go just because of that.

#739 4 months ago

I ordered the LED. I really won't know the difference in the LCD. I'll post pics when I get it installed. Thank you all for your help...much appreciated! I'm new at this and still learning.

#745 4 months ago
Quoted from shovelhed:

I think its pretty simple Led for Bally Williams and Lcd for all modern Sterns.

Why is one brand better with LCD and the other brand better with LED?

#754 4 months ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

The LEDs have a better color gamut / reproduction as well, particularly reds. I'm still in the "some games are better for one versus the other" camp and don't see that changing anytime soon if ever.

I think I'm going to like it for this reason exactly. The LED panel arrived in two days! I'm still waiting on the glare filter (it's in transit). I'll have it installed very soon.

#760 4 months ago

So from what I've gathered from this thread is:

LCD - less bright but has different display settings that morph the dots into more of a solid picture rather than just seeing individual dots

LED - more bright and better colors but the final visual shows the individual dots more. (although by adding a glare guard and adjusting the brightness you can minimize the dots to the point where they aren't as easily seen). Less setting modes to customize.

Is that correct?

#773 4 months ago

I just installed my LED and have only one game played on my WPT. The instructions were lacking a bit due to each game being different I guess, but I was able to figure it out. The colors make things so much better! I definitely see the dots but I think I've read this forum too much...it's in my head that it's a bad thing. I'm going to play it for a week and see if I want to keep it or try LCD once I get to see more of the moving graphics, etc.

Questions...
1) When adding in internal glare guard, do you leave the clear outer piece in the backbox so there is a glare guard and clear outer plastic?
2) Do I need to adjust the contrast at all or does everyone leave it on 5 and then just adjust the brightness?
3) Does brightness of 10 make the dots appear larger?
4) No idea why the RGB/RBG is a setting...does anyone know?

#774 4 months ago

Now that my LED screen with glare guard is installed on my WPT, I'm seeing a double image when playing the machine (I'm 6'2" tall). I notice as I squat downward and look more level at the screen, the double image goes away so it has something to do with the glare guard or the space between the LED screen and the glare guard/clear plexiglass. Is this double image something that can be fixed or is it just part of using the glare guard and I need to just deal with it?

#778 4 months ago
Quoted from PinRob:

Put the glare guard directly on the LED screen leaving no gap, or go with A bentplastic glare guard.

Thanks! So I assume I just tape it to the LED screen? That’s the only way I can think of attaching it instead of using screws like I did when I affixed it to the clear plastic.

#781 4 months ago

I put was able to affix the glare guard directly to the LED screen on my WPT with some 5/16" weatherstripping and some double stick tape. Unfortunately I still see the halo effect around the graphics / numbers / text when I'm playing the game. It might be something that just can't be fixed unfortunately. The screen looks amazing after stepping back or viewing from a lower viewpoint just not at the angle of when I'm playing the pin.

#783 4 months ago
Quoted from John_I:

Hmm, I don't remember any issues like this with the glare guard and I am 6'2". I wonder if it is a difference between the old style wood speaker panel on WPT and the newer metal style I had on my later run Metallica.
Unfortunately the glare guard is a fact of life with the LED version. Not sure why it doesn't come installed from the manufacturer. Just one more reason I prefer the LCD. The LCD is polarized and especially on the newer games with metal backbox it doesn't reflect in either direction.

Interesting. I appreciate your reply. It's definitely and issue that bothers me....Maybe I should have gone LCD in the first place. I tried to capture it the best I could here.

The first 2 photos show from my view...you can see the ghost image at the bottom of the letters/numbers.
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The 3rd photo is from a couple of feet lower and you can see the ghosting double image is almost gone.
IMG_3984 (resized).JPG

If you look straight on at the screen, it looks great...it just looks muddy while I'm playing it. Not exactly that sharp crystal clear detail like I thought I was going to get with LED or LCD. Note that we thought that the double image would go away if I moved the glare guard onto the LED screen and off of the clear outer plexi. I'm not sure it made a difference at all.

#789 4 months ago

It doesn't fix my issue but I'm happy to hear that everyone is on the same side in regards to this not being normal or correct. I don't have a lot of experience with the LED screens so I wasn't sure if what I was seeing was something that was odd or normal. I just emailed ColorDMD, I'll see what they say and report back.

Update: ColorDMD said they have no experience with the glare guard and I'm on my own.

So just to confirm, a glare guard is not needed for LCD?

#792 4 months ago
Quoted from Darscot:

You may have the glare guard upside down. I thought they all block both ways but I'm not sure. They are just those old laptop privacy screens you can't see on an angle. I have three with glare guards and I'm 6'1 and never had an issue. Where did you buy the guard maybe they are all not created equal.

This was the one that I bought. I didn't see any up or down on the product and it was recommended here. I guess I would have had to make the same mistake twice with the glare guard upside down but it's possible.
https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PBL-100-0114-00

#799 4 months ago
Quoted from cabuford:

To be fair the comet glare guard has worked on a Color DMD LED and an alternative LED product. Both Data East machines for me. I recommend the Stern LCD one for an Iron Maiden and they hated it. But yeah, I think the person seeing double has something installed wrong.

I think I'm just going to end this quickly by going to LCD. After reading through the thread, it seems that the later Stern pinball machines do better with LCD anyway. That combined with the problems I'm having with this double image that I can't seem to diagnose or fix, LCD should cure my problem, give a more complete graphic, and I'll just sell off the LED panel in the classifieds.

#801 4 months ago

LCD is installed on my WPT. It's tough not to have the best of both worlds. I use the Style setting. I personally like the full animation vs the dots...it looks good to me. I hate that it can't be as bright as the LED but at least it's clear and the animations look normal now. Of course I've had to turn the contrast and brightness up to 9 and now my blacks are gray because of it just so I can have some kind of brightness. I'm going to play it for a week or so but honestly i think I like it better than the LED double image dots. However, one of the lights on the playfield now reflect off of the LCD screen and bother me a because the LCD isn't bright enough.

Time will tell I guess.

#803 4 months ago
Quoted from davebart5:

Awesome man. Glad you’re getting clarity on what you like. Again, people seem to think those stern models do very well with the smoothing.
And with the glare of the PF, you may never get it perfect. I will say that the LeD reflected off the PF glass a lot, but a glare guard plastic under the DMD panel blocks it completely both ways, but you gotta live with the plastic, which mentally disappears over time, and of course your first attempt at the glare film had an issue.
As discussed, try both with and without supporting accessories like the glare guards and see what works for you.
I have good news to report that you may not be crazy on the double image. This weekend I tested it with a variety of angles and I think I recreated what you seen. The pic below shows my camera on my toes as high as I can to grab a shot, and it shows what looks like an extra set of blue dots under each set of real dots. Is this what you were seeing?
If so, it’s the glare guard and the way it’s made I guess. You said to me pinballlife is promising to return it for you so I would do that. I’m 5’ 11” so it isnt an issue for me and very happy with mine, but I am super curious to try the comet version now.
[quoted image]

Thank so much for doing the research! Yes, that is exactly the double image I see, every time I play. It's interesting that your recreated it. It was bothersome from the beginning unfortunately. I'm glad its not an issue with others because it's very tilting.

I'm in the process with playing the LCD for right now. I honestly like the Style mode that doesn't have the dots. If I have to look at dots, I'd rather go LED since at least they are bright and the colors pop. After I give the LCD a run, I'll then put the LED back on with the glare guard and then without....and see what I like best. I don't know if I'm going to order the Comet glare guard or not....

2 weeks later
#810 3 months ago
Quoted from zahner:

So, I was installing a Color DMD into my Tommy. I noted the instructions were incomplete [step 9 and hooking up power and the ribbons are missing], so I went on line to confirm my best guesses. Warning - it is kind of easy to install the 5v plug backward if you are not careful. I had it on backward. I had not fired it up yet, but I came close. Ended up working like a charm and I'm up and running. I went with LED and it looks fantastic. I've seen the game fitted with an LCD, and it looks great too. They have a different feel to them, so it really is just personal taste in my humble opinion. I don't see that one is better than the other. I happen to like the LED. I must say though that the provided instructions are needlessly vague and incomplete. There is ample support among hobbyist. If you are installing one, I suggest reviewing a video or two, at least for a Data East install. Remember to check your 5v plug alignment and that with the ribbon cables, the red line is toward the #1 pin side. Have fun.

I completely agree about the instructions being needlessly vague. Right button, left button with no reference to which way is right or left. Also, there were a lot of things like attachment points, etc. just left out and left to guess about. I too watched a few videos to put the missing pieces together..

#812 3 months ago

So I have a detached cable that I need to plug in. I need to make sure that the red stripe on the cable is on the "Right" side. However no where does it say which is side is the right side. After the cable is plugged in (hopefully correct), then now I think I know which side is right hand which side is left (if I did it right) and now I can deduce what button is right and left.... I think.

How about putting "right side" and "left side" on the diagram and establishing a coordinate system at the beginning? How about labeling the buttons 1, 2, 3, 4 instead of the lines of text next to each button but referring to them in the instructions as "left" and "right" when they aren't labeled as such on the PCB or in the diagram. I'm an engineer. I've created these diagrams for customers.

It can really be done better.

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