ColorDMD - LCD versus LED?


By goatdan

1 year ago


Stats

  • 489 posts
  • 182 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 weeks ago by Rob_G
  • Topic is favorited by 64 Pinsiders

Find

Search this topic for posts matching certain words or written by a specific Pinsider. Or both!




Linked Games



Topic Gallery

There have been 83 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

IMG_2857 (resized).JPG
IMG_2859 (resized).JPG
IMG_2862 (resized).JPG
IMG_2864 (resized).JPG
IMG_1922 (resized).JPG
IMG_1160 (resized).JPG
IMG_1165 (resized).JPG
IMG_1166 (resized).JPG
IMG_1158 (resized).JPG
IMG_4507 (resized).JPG
IMG_4505 (resized).JPG
IMG_4504 (resized).JPG
IMG_4502 (resized).JPG
IMG_2547 (resized).JPG
IMG_2535 (resized).JPG
IMG_2533 (resized).JPG


Topic index (key posts)

5 key posts have been marked in this topic (Show topic index)

There are 489 posts in topic. You are on page 3 of 10.
#101 1 year ago

I think that it will definitely depend on the game as to whether LED or LCD is better, for all the video sequences in SM to look good the contrast and brightness on the LED version had to be turned down significantly. On CV, where there is no video, it looks fantastic turned up so I think some games without video sequences and lots of colorful artwork would be better with the LED. One other thing of note is that the LCD panel partially blocks the bottom row of LEDs on my backbox board in SM, it's minor but it is noticeable in attract mode (the backbox board dims during play).

#102 1 year ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

One other thing of note is that the LCD panel partially blocks the bottom row of LEDs on my backbox board in SM, it's minor but it is noticeable in attract mode (the backbox board dims during play).

That will be a SM VE then, as the original SM has no LED in the backbox but just a tube. Or do you have an other adjustment made yourself?

#103 1 year ago

Screw dots. I'm a smoothie man on my color dmd's.

#104 1 year ago

Just ordered LED for my WH2O, SS, CFTBL and FT. I hope it will look good!

#105 1 year ago

I have the LED panel in a twilight zone I'm doing for a friend. It looks fantastic! Very rich colors, and great contrast. Looking forward to getting an LED panel for Dr Who too.

#106 1 year ago
Quoted from Slim64:

I have the LED panel in a twilight zone I'm doing for a friend. It looks fantastic! Very rich colors, and great contrast. Looking forward to getting an LED panel for Dr Who too.

Post some videos!

#107 1 year ago
Quoted from PeterG:

That will be a SM VE then, as the original SM has no LED in the backbox but just a tube. Or do you have an other adjustment made yourself?

The video should make it clear it's the original, I put a LED board with auto-dimmer from Arcade Upkeep in it - too lazy to make one myself and the auto-dimming is great. Definitely worth the $65.

#108 1 year ago

Since I already had the camera and everything setup I figured why not post one in DotsXL mode too?

» YouTube video

#109 1 year ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Since I already had the camera and everything setup I figured why not post one in DotsXL mode too?
» YouTube video

Black levels seems nice compared to most LCD colorDMD displays I have seen. Is that cause of the video or did you tweak the video setting?

#110 1 year ago

Thanks for all the video's - finally we have a good comparison of all the modes. It was not yet out on the internet. I like the dotsXL mode. I can see what you mean with the screen being to large so it will block the bottom of the translite. I do not think that is a Led issue, I think that will also be the case with the original tube also, it is just te shadow of the light that falls on the translite. Maybe anyone else with a LCD in any Stern machine with a tube can confirm.

#111 1 year ago
Quoted from BoJo:

Black levels seems nice compared to most LCD colorDMD displays I have seen. Is that cause of the video or did you tweak the video setting?

They've used different display brands over the years. I've seen a lot of ColorDMDs that look a bit different from one to the next.

#112 1 year ago

Just ordered a LED unit for my SS...

#113 1 year ago
Quoted from PeterG:

Maybe anyone else with a LCD in any Stern machine with a tube can confirm.

I don't see a shadow on my lcds (including spiderman) the fluorescent tube is up so high that it actually casts some light into the gap between the translite and the lcd.

#114 1 year ago
Quoted from caker137:

I don't see a shadow on my lcds (including spiderman) the fluorescent tube is up so high that it actually casts some light into the gap between the translite and the lcd.

Yeah, with the tube light it's fine. It all depends on what kind of light you have in the backbox.

#115 1 year ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Yeah, with the tube light it's fine. It all depends on what kind of light you have in the backbox.

Yep, I had the LCD screen in there with the fluorescent tube and it did not have the shadow. I could modify the LED backboard to resolve this but its such a minor thing I haven't worried about it.

#116 1 year ago
Quoted from BoJo:

Black levels seems nice compared to most LCD colorDMD displays I have seen. Is that cause of the video or did you tweak the video setting?

Three things:

1) The camera height is lower than eye level for most people, due the angle the display is at to the player this means that better contrast and color depth will be experienced at this height.

2) Many people do not properly set the contrast and backlight on the display. Mine were like that until I saw Phoebe's AFM and said "damn, that looks way better than mine", asked what was different and then changed my settings. (Hint: turn down the backlight)

3) The video is purposely under-exposed to better capture the display, this makes the black level and color saturation appear better on the LCD than the eye perceives.

#117 1 year ago

I just received and installed an LED display in my MM. I was expecting to be so blown away that I would immediately sell all my old LCD displays and upgrade every game to LED. But I'm honestly not sure which one I like better between the two. For comparison purposes, I have an MM and MB right next to each other. LED is in the MM, LCD is in the MB.

LED:

Pros:
+ Brightness is amazing, just *glows* and makes you want to walk up to it in a row of games
+ The colors are vibrant and really "pop"
+ Off angle viewing is fantastic- no discernible brightness falloff.
+ New black frame is great, looks totally factory from any angle
+ Much cleaner installation

Cons:
- LED points are tiny and "piercing", leaving to a more quantized image than on the LCD (even with normal dots). Miles of dark space between the light points
- It's a bit harsh to look at even with the brightness turned down.
- The sub-pixel color separation (e.g. purple is visible as blue + red points since there's no diffusion) really annoys me.
- I can absolutely see the column ghosting, even from playing distance. I realize we were warned, but it still bugs me.
- Contrast in a lit room isn't great, since the LEDs are white when off.

LCD:

Pros:
+ DotsXL looks *great* the way it fills in the image
+ Colors are smooth and even. The entire "dot" is the same color.
+ For those that like the hi-res modes, this is the only way to get them.

Cons:
- Brightness *sucks* compared to the LED. It just looks drab and uninviting in the lineup by comparison.
- No real "black" in a dark room, even with the brightness turned down all the way.
- Metal frame + light bleed is visible from off-angle. I've attempted to mask this with black felt, but it's not perfect.
- Mounting concerns for games where it matters.

Overall, the LCD solutions looks very "clean" and "modern". The LED feels more "vintage" to me and as such perfectly at home with the late WPC games.

Honestly, I wouldn't mix and match. In a lineup with both- I expect almost everyone would walk up to the LED game first. It just pops with life. In addition to the overall brightness, the superior off-angle performance is a big part of this.

I'm still on the fence if I'm going to upgrade every game to LED. I'm not in any hurry, so I'm hopeful for a version 2.0 in a year or two that addresses the ghosting as well as possibly with individually diffused LEDs to improve the sub-pixel color blending issue.

I absolutely agree with the statements that it's impossible to photograph these accurately. If anyone in the San Jose, CA area wants to stop by and see them yourself side-by-side, let me know.

#118 1 year ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Since I already had the camera and everything setup I figured why not post one in DotsXL mode too?

I was apparently one of the 14 people that looked through these so far, and just gotta say THANKS! This is SUPER helpful to me!

I *think* that LCD looks a little bit better to me, although I'm not positive on that yet... Having said that, before this video, I still had no idea!

#119 1 year ago
Quoted from goatdan:

I was apparently one of the 14 people that looked through these so far, and just gotta say THANKS! This is SUPER helpful to me!
I *think* that LCD looks a little bit better to me, although I'm not positive on that yet... Having said that, before this video, I still had no idea!

I was another one of the 14 that looked at all of them. I was more interested in dots vs. dots xl. I saw the LED vs. LCD at the Chicago Expo booth, and I like the LCD better. The LEDs are too "pointedly bright". Small bright pinpoint lights with a lot of black space around them - I didn't like that. I purchased the LCD and just received my ColorDMD order today for my ACDCPrem. Hopefully I get time this weekend or next to install it and put the right software download on it. From the videos it looks like I want to find the dots XL setting. Thanks for showing the comparisons on the same machine.

#120 1 year ago
Quoted from KingBW:

I was another one of the 14 that looked at all of them. I was more interested in dots vs. dots xl. I saw the LED vs. LCD at the Chicago Expo booth, and I like the LCD better. The LEDs are too "pointedly bright". Small bright pinpoint lights with a lot of black space around them - I didn't like that. I purchased the LCD and just received my ColorDMD order today for my ACDCPrem. Hopefully I get time this weekend or next to install it and put the right software download on it. From the videos it looks like I want to find the dots XL setting. Thanks for showing the comparisons on the same machine.

Yeah, from what I saw I agree that the DotsXL seemed like the way to go for me too. I haven't yet bit the bullet, as I will probably be stupid and want to buy like 10 at the exact same time, but my DM is starting to outgas...

I need to get the walls down in the basement and start making more machines appear...

#121 1 year ago
Quoted from goatdan:

Yeah, from what I saw I agree that the DotsXL seemed like the way to go for me too. I haven't yet bit the bullet, as I will probably be stupid and want to buy like 10 at the exact same time, but my DM is starting to outgas...
I need to get the walls down in the basement and start making more machines appear...

Don't wait too long, an out-gassing DMD draws more power and can wreck an already weak High Voltage supply!

#122 1 year ago

Ok, just got in the newest version of LCD ColorDMD- the board is a little different and the website is not up to date on install, so here' a public service announcement to make it easier on you guys-

Cable goes in with red strip on top, as the board is mounted different and appears to be slightly different than older models.. here is the correct way-

dmd (resized).jpg

Also, remember to download the NEW CHROMA ROM for this new boardset... I totally overlooked it and tried for a half an hour to upload the original LCD rom.. then I realized I needed the Chroma rom.

Now the ColorDMD is installed in my Metallica Premium and I love it. Such a killer upgrade IMO.

#123 1 year ago
Quoted from Khabbi:

Ok, just got in the newest version of LCD ColorDMD- the board is a little different and the website is not up to date on install, so here' a public service announcement to make it easier on you guys-

Thanks! I haven't attempted installing my new Chroma LCD ColorDMD yet. I appreciate it.

#124 1 year ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

LED Display with 3.3 ROM: » YouTube video

Thank you for the comparisons! LED vs LCD (Dots, DotsXL, HiRes).

HiRes is pretty terrible in the video modes... though it would seem to excel with custom animations (e.g., cartoons). I can why people like DotsXL, it's a near perfect middle ground filling in some of the space between pixels. As pointed out I don't think the videos properly reflected the angle of the viewer, else the LED would have stood out a bit more, but it looks to be a great option for all games.

#125 1 year ago

I made my choice, LCD it is, I like the fact that you can control some parameters and have the various modes. Next to that, I am one of the few people that see the rainbow effect when colors are created using multiple led's. I see that with modern stage lights made of leds, I see that with DLP projectors, Ambilight from Philips TV's and am affraid I will see that with the LED screen too. So LCD, I just start saving to replace 6 pins with this option.......

#126 1 year ago

Got my LED from the UPS man this afternoon, updated the software and got it all installed. Easy as heck to get set up and looks awesome! I am thrilled with the look of the LED, the pictures don't do it justice as it is very vibrant in person. Sweet!!

20161107_205025 (resized).jpg

20161107_205055 (resized).jpg

#127 1 year ago

One thing to note is that I think in the videos the LCD looks pretty much the same way in person.....but the LED looks even brighter/better in person that it does in videos.

-4
#128 1 year ago

This is with brightness at 20%, 100% is ridiculous. I do need to mask that gap though!

edit: jesus guys, was only trying to show how bright these panels are

#129 1 year ago
Quoted from emkay:

This is with brightness at 20%, 100% is ridiculous. I do need to mask that gap though!

Wrong product thread. Also, why is there and advertisement on the display. That sucks, it should be only original content in my opinion.

#130 1 year ago

Any suggestions on which would be best on a GNR?

-2
#131 1 year ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Wrong product thread. Also, why is there and advertisement on the display. That sucks, it should be only original content in my opinion.

Uh, sorry? I had just hooked it up, hadn't installed the firmware yet. This was last week man, wasn't trying to piss anyone off. They're the same panels aren't they?

#132 1 year ago
Quoted from emkay:

Uh, sorry? I had just hooked it up, hadn't installed the firmware yet. This was last week man, wasn't trying to piss anyone off. They're the same panels aren't they?

The other color display has its own threads that you can talk about it in there. Thank you for stopping by.

#133 1 year ago

Anyone have examples for tz using the upscaling? Or maybe just dots using the led/lcd Thinking of getting one for it but dont know wether to go lcd or led for it.

#134 1 year ago
Quoted from libtech:

Anyone have examples for tz using the upscaling? Or maybe just dots using the led/lcd Thinking of getting one for it but dont know wether to go lcd or led for it.

There is a video preview on this page using dots on the LCD.
http://shop.colordmd.com/colordmd-replacement-display-for-twilight-zone-pinball-machine/

#135 1 year ago

Bobukcat, thanks for providing all the different options. I do think b/w's from 90's is led all the way. Modern Sterns Cartoon based Met, Acdc, Simpsons hi res Lcd. Other Modern Sterns Lcd dots xl.

#136 1 year ago

It's a matter of preference for GNR. Do you want the upscaling modes or DOTSXL? If so, you need the LCD panel and have to modify the speaker panel for it to fit (instructions on the colordmd site). If you just want dots and a bit brighter pick the LED (no speaker panel mod required).

If you are purchasing a new display remember both the new LCD controller and LED use the chroma rom.

Quoted from loanguy7171973:

Any suggestions on which would be best on a GNR?

#137 1 year ago

So I got the LED installed in the TOTAN. I love it. It's darker and brighter. The reds and yellows are deeper. The dots are far apart - particularly when you compare it to hi-res mode on the LCD.

When you compare it to the orange DMD you are replacing it's much more consistent and closer to the original design.

I just brought home an AFM yesterday with a color LCD and I don't plan on replacing it but given the option to save $30 on the next title I will go with the LED again.

#138 1 year ago
Quoted from Rferullo:

So I got the LED installed in the TOTAN. I love it. It's darker and brighter. The reds and yellows are deeper. The dots are far apart - particularly when you compare it to hi-res mode on the LCD.
When you compare it to the orange DMD you are replacing it's much more consistent and closer to the original design.
I just brought home an AFM yesterday with a color LCD and I don't plan on replacing it but given the option to save $30 on the next title I will go with the LED again.

COOL!!!!

#139 1 year ago
Quoted from Kingsley73:

Got my LED from the UPS man this afternoon, updated the software and got it all installed. Easy as heck to get set up and looks awesome! I am thrilled with the look of the LED, the pictures don't do it justice as it is very vibrant in person. Sweet!!

Looks awesome!

Also, would to see your led choices for the backbox. Really nice!

#140 1 year ago
Quoted from ltcmdrobvious:

LED Cons:
- LED points are tiny and "piercing", leaving to a more quantized image than on the LCD (even with normal dots). Miles of dark space between the light points
- It's a bit harsh to look at even with the brightness turned down.
- The sub-pixel color separation (e.g. purple is visible as blue + red points since there's no diffusion) really annoys me.
- I can absolutely see the column ghosting, even from playing distance. I realize we were warned, but it still bugs me.
- Contrast in a lit room isn't great, since the LEDs are white when off.

This guy nailed it with the cons of the LED. The 3 sub pixels are very small and in a vertical row. On top of that, there is a clear diffuser over the top of each pixel. I have poor vision and can easily make out the sub pixels. Like the previous poster noted, purple is very poor and solid red, green, or blue the pixels are too small. I would like to see a white diffuser over the pixels in future versions before I go all out on a bunch of these. I know I'm just saying everything that's been said, but I still want my opinions noted. Thanks.

-Jeff

#141 1 year ago

Just installed the LED display in Creature and wow! Most of my games already have the LCD model so I'm not going to go and change them but if I was starting over today I'd seriously consider going with LED on everything. It really pops. My observation is that text screens look better on DotsXL (I run DotsXL on everything except TSPP), but fully colorized frames of graphics are better on the LED, despite the smaller dots. Both great products.

#142 1 year ago

I also just installed LED (on Shadow) and it is awesome. The colors are bright and vibrant. Much better to me than the LCD.

I have the color LCD on STTNG with dotsXL, and it is a major improvement over monochrome, but the colors are washed out. And the lack of brightness makes it inferior.

I also have LCD on Met with the upscale cartoon mode, which looks good on that game, but I still think the brighter colors you get with the LED are more impressive.

If you like the traditional dots, LED is definitely the way to go.

#143 1 year ago

I find most of the LED lighting on the newer games to be excessively bright and harsh. How bright is the LED and can it be turned way down?

For example, on my Met Prem I have the GI illumination turned down to 10. Factory is 50 and it goes up to 100. When I put LEDs in my older games I use the comet 2 LED soft white for the GI.

From what I am reading in this thread I probably won't like the new LED display. Am I correct in this assumption?

Thanks,
Michael

#144 1 year ago
Quoted from Radius118:

How bright is the LED and can it be turned way down?

Just like the LCD ColorDMD, the LED ColorDMD has a range of 1 to 9 on the brightness and contrast for anyone to be able to make it to their liking.

Personally, I found over the weekend at the Houston Arcade Expo, while I installed 4 LED displays in games, I found 2 for contrast and 4 for brightness to be the sweet spot in a very dark lighted room. Again, this is my preference and likely would differ from someone else's preference.

Default setting for the LED display was set for 4 on contrast and 5 on brightness.

#145 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

There is a video preview on this page using dots on the LCD.
http://shop.colordmd.com/colordmd-replacement-display-for-twilight-zone-pinball-machine/

yes Ive seen that one thanks, can anyone comment on thow tz is in high rez mode? Im thinking I like the dots and will probably go led

#146 1 year ago
Quoted from libtech:

yes Ive seen that one thanks, can anyone comment on thow tz is in high rez mode? Im thinking I like the dots and will probably go led

There are a couple of animations that look odd, but I like the HiRes setting anyway. I had my game at the show set for dots on the LCD and people liked the way it looked on it too.

#147 1 year ago

I had 4 LED displays in games over the weekend and unless I pointed out which were LED and which were LCD, people didn't know. All the ones that had LCD installed (except TZ) were in HiRes, which got a lot of praise just as much as the games did with the LED display.

So again, buying one display over another is going to be one's own preference, just like which company LED's are best or which type of LED is better. There will be no wrong answer.

#148 1 year ago
Quoted from Radius118:

I find most of the LED lighting on the newer games to be excessively bright and harsh. How bright is the LED and can it be turned way down?
For example, on my Met Prem I have the GI illumination turned down to 10. Factory is 50 and it goes up to 100. When I put LEDs in my older games I use the comet 2 LED soft white for the GI.
From what I am reading in this thread I probably won't like the new LED display. Am I correct in this assumption?
Thanks,
Michael

You seem more sensitive to it than I am, so I would "guess" to say you are correct with your assumption. Maybe find a LED on a pin to confirm it in-person.

#149 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Just like the LCD ColorDMD, the LED ColorDMD has a range of 1 to 9 on the brightness and contrast for anyone to be able to make it to their liking.
Personally, I found over the weekend at the Houston Arcade Expo, while I installed 4 LED displays in games, I found 2 for contrast and 4 for brightness to be the sweet spot in a very dark lighted room. Again, this is my preference and likely would differ from someone else's preference.
Default setting for the LED display was set for 4 on contrast and 5 on brightness.

Quoted from KingBW:

You seem more sensitive to it than I am, so I would "guess" to say you are correct with your assumption. Maybe find a LED on a pin to confirm it in-person.

Thanks for the feedback. I wonder if I can order one and send it back if I don't like it? I will email them.

Thanks,
Michael

#150 1 year ago
Quoted from Radius118:

Thanks for the feedback. I wonder if I can order one and send it back if I don't like it? I will email them.
Thanks,
Michael

I'm really liking the LED panel. I'm actually considering buying more for my machines because of the look and in the case of TAF, the form factor to put the factory speaker panel light board back in and put the LCD in something else. I've always liked the classic look so I haven't liked the other options but I also don't have it in my MET pro or AC/DC prem. I only have a color display in TAF, IJ and CV. LCD in the TAF and IJ obviously.

I would agree if you're on the fence I'd lean towards the LCD. Honestly I didn't even adjust the LED settings; it looked great to me as is so I left it.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 63.00
Lighting - Under Cabinet
Lermods
$ 29.99
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 45.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Great American Pinball
$ 53.50
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
$ 129.00
Lighting - Led
LED OCD
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 989.00
Pinball Machine
Mircoplayfields
From: $ 119.99
Lighting - Backbox
Rock Custom Pinball
From: $ 14.95
$ 12.00
Playfield - Protection
Pin Mods
$ 15.50
Lighting - Led
Lermods
5,000 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
San Diego, CA
$ 99.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 40.00
Lighting - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 29.99
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 35.00
Cabinet - Decals
Bright Lights Pinball
$ 78.00
From: $ 179.99
Lighting - Led
Comet Pinball
$ 239.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Tilttopper
$ 35.00
Cabinet - Decals
Bright Lights Pinball
There are 489 posts in topic. You are on page 3 of 10.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Sign up for a Pinside account, or log in if you already have an account.


Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside