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(Topic ID: 171786)

ColorDMD - LCD versus LED?


By goatdan

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 814 posts
  • 260 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 87 days ago by LukyDuck
  • Topic is favorited by 96 Pinsiders

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There are 814 posts in this topic. You are on page 16 of 17.
#751 3 months ago

I’ve have both and it’s LCD for me, hands down.

#752 3 months ago
Quoted from John_I:

Some people here obviously base their opinion of the LCD based solely on the high res mode as opposed to the dot modes that they have. To me the high res mode looks awful on most games, but the LCD with regular dots or dots xl looks amazing. The LCD is superior on every game when it comes to looks. LED has two things going for it, price and the fit and form being the same as the original DMD.

The LEDs have a better color gamut / reproduction as well, particularly reds. I'm still in the "some games are better for one versus the other" camp and don't see that changing anytime soon if ever.

#753 3 months ago

Decided to go with the LED panel for my TZ, received it on Friday. Very easy install. Pulled the fuses on the DMD controller for the high voltage supply for the old display. Happy with the look, really adds a nice touch to the game. Wife and I were playing TZ last night and she thought it was a great upgrade. Kept asking why it took me so long to order...

#754 3 months ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

The LEDs have a better color gamut / reproduction as well, particularly reds. I'm still in the "some games are better for one versus the other" camp and don't see that changing anytime soon if ever.

I think I'm going to like it for this reason exactly. The LED panel arrived in two days! I'm still waiting on the glare filter (it's in transit). I'll have it installed very soon.

#755 3 months ago

LED. The LCD just doesn't "pop" like the LED.

My 2c.

#756 3 months ago
Quoted from shovelhed:

I think its pretty simple Led for Bally Williams and Lcd for all modern Sterns.

Nope - really depends on the game's dots, the content it's trying to emulate, the lightning and look of the game, etc.

For instance, people love the LCD for TSPP because it allows you to recreate what looks more like the source content. Tron on the other hand is more about FMV and looks WAY better with cool color temps and much more vivid colors than stock. So for TRON, the LED fits much better as you can get that high contrast, vivid color, and there is no real desire for the smoothing effects, etc.

It really boils down to what the total package - both contents and looks - you're going for with the particular title. For some its more a toss up.. for others... the gain of one vs another is more pronounced.

Add into that people have differing preferences for how they think a title should look (more subtle, more contrast, more OEM, brighter, etc) and you end up with the inconclusiveness of things.

Instead of being 'Vanilla vs Chocolate' it should be more about 'what pairs better with...'

#757 3 months ago

Seeing a fresh orange plasma DMD display in a lineup next to all LCD color DMDs really drove home just how dim these displays are vs. authentic DMD or LED ones. No "pop" indeed.

#758 3 months ago
Quoted from Fytr:

No "pop" indeed.

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#759 3 months ago

I put LCD on my TOTAN since many of the screens have STORY-book style illustrations in a color pallet that works great on the LCD. IMHO the LED version would have less “illustration” look and feel.

#760 3 months ago

So from what I've gathered from this thread is:

LCD - less bright but has different display settings that morph the dots into more of a solid picture rather than just seeing individual dots

LED - more bright and better colors but the final visual shows the individual dots more. (although by adding a glare guard and adjusting the brightness you can minimize the dots to the point where they aren't as easily seen). Less setting modes to customize.

Is that correct?

#761 3 months ago
Quoted from Codeman00:

Is that correct?

I think that sums it up pretty well.

I wish you could visit the VFW Pinball Museum in Ann Arbor Michigan sometime. We have all Williams/Bally DMD games except Popeye (Sorry Popeye fans, LOL). We also have ColorDMDs in all of them, and pretty evenly split between LCD and LED. It gives you a great idea of how they look in various titles. Unfortunately this year our May event was postponed due to the pandemic.

#762 3 months ago
Quoted from Codeman00:

Is that correct?

led cheaper should be in there

Quoted from Rum-Z:

(Sorry Popeye fans, LOL).

and Gilligan

#763 3 months ago

LOL, I forgot about Gilligan. In my defense, not hard to do

#764 3 months ago
Quoted from Codeman00:

LCD - less bright but has different display settings that morph the dots into more of a solid picture rather than just seeing individual dots

Only one of the settings makes it a solid picture. The rest are dot modes of various sizes. The solid picture really doesn't look good to me on most games, but the other modes are all great.

#765 3 months ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

led cheaper should be in there

and Gilligan

And better fit and finish

#766 3 months ago
Quoted from hoby1:

And better fit and finish

Good point.

#767 3 months ago

I've seen both in person, but not as much side by side. I like that the LED has the better contrast and richer colors, but I always notice that the LED dots have more space between them than the stock Plasma or Monochrome LED displays... I was wondering if that has been improved in more recent incarnations?

#768 3 months ago

whats better for mettallica pro lcd or led?

#769 3 months ago
Quoted from gmanrulz46:

whats better for mettallica pro lcd or led?

I bought an LED for Metallica and would have gladly traded it plus cash for an LCD. Sold the game with the ColorDMD in it.

#770 3 months ago

LCD for sure

#771 3 months ago
Quoted from gmanrulz46:

whats better for mettallica pro lcd or led?

the LCD smoothing looks great for Metallica

#772 3 months ago
Quoted from Baiter:

I've seen both in person, but not as much side by side. I like that the LED has the better contrast and richer colors, but I always notice that the LED dots have more space between them than the stock Plasma or Monochrome LED displays... I was wondering if that has been improved in more recent incarnations?

The main issue with the dots on the LED is you can actually see the 3 RGB LEDs... most notably when it tries to display white. I felt the dot pitch wasn't a negative (given the brighter intensity of the LED) but the slightly rainbow white is a slight distraction depending on the scene.

#773 3 months ago

I just installed my LED and have only one game played on my WPT. The instructions were lacking a bit due to each game being different I guess, but I was able to figure it out. The colors make things so much better! I definitely see the dots but I think I've read this forum too much...it's in my head that it's a bad thing. I'm going to play it for a week and see if I want to keep it or try LCD once I get to see more of the moving graphics, etc.

Questions...
1) When adding in internal glare guard, do you leave the clear outer piece in the backbox so there is a glare guard and clear outer plastic?
2) Do I need to adjust the contrast at all or does everyone leave it on 5 and then just adjust the brightness?
3) Does brightness of 10 make the dots appear larger?
4) No idea why the RGB/RBG is a setting...does anyone know?

#774 3 months ago

Now that my LED screen with glare guard is installed on my WPT, I'm seeing a double image when playing the machine (I'm 6'2" tall). I notice as I squat downward and look more level at the screen, the double image goes away so it has something to do with the glare guard or the space between the LED screen and the glare guard/clear plexiglass. Is this double image something that can be fixed or is it just part of using the glare guard and I need to just deal with it?

#775 3 months ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

[quoted image]

LMAO bobukcat - Assuming you are the same from RGP from the early 00's - pinmeister here! Good to see you still around if that is you bro.

Pete

#776 3 months ago
Quoted from Codeman00:

Now that my LED screen with glare guard is installed on my WPT, I'm seeing a double image when playing the machine (I'm 6'2" tall). I notice as I squat downward and look more level at the screen, the double image goes away so it has something to do with the glare guard or the space between the LED screen and the glare guard/clear plexiglass. Is this double image something that can be fixed or is it just part of using the glare guard and I need to just deal with it?

Put the glare guard directly on the LED screen leaving no gap, or go with A bentplastic glare guard.

#777 3 months ago

Anyone put an LCD in a Data East game? I think you have to cut the DMD/speaker panel.

#778 3 months ago
Quoted from PinRob:

Put the glare guard directly on the LED screen leaving no gap, or go with A bentplastic glare guard.

Thanks! So I assume I just tape it to the LED screen? That’s the only way I can think of attaching it instead of using screws like I did when I affixed it to the clear plastic.

#779 3 months ago
Quoted from Codeman00:

Thanks! So I assume I just tape it to the LED screen? That’s the only way I can think of attaching it instead of using screws like I did when I affixed it to the clear plastic.

I just grabbed a little black foam weather strip from Home Depot and put it around the LEDs and stuck the glare guard to that.

#780 3 months ago
Quoted from cabuford:

Anyone put an LCD in a Data East game? I think you have to cut the DMD/speaker panel.

Yes you have to dremel the interior of the speaker panel to fit an LCD in a Data East game.

The LCD screen will leave a half inch (give or take) tall shadow along the bottom of the translite. Some games it’s not noticeable and others it is. I had TFTC and the comic art goes from top to bottom, so I didn’t want to block any of that or permanently alter the panel.

Couldn’t be happier with the end result.

#781 3 months ago

I put was able to affix the glare guard directly to the LED screen on my WPT with some 5/16" weatherstripping and some double stick tape. Unfortunately I still see the halo effect around the graphics / numbers / text when I'm playing the game. It might be something that just can't be fixed unfortunately. The screen looks amazing after stepping back or viewing from a lower viewpoint just not at the angle of when I'm playing the pin.

#782 3 months ago
Quoted from Codeman00:

I put was able to affix the glare guard directly to the LED screen on my WPT with some 5/16" weatherstripping and some double stick tape. Unfortunately I still see the halo effect around the graphics / numbers / text when I'm playing the game. It might be something that just can't be fixed unfortunately. The screen looks amazing after stepping back or viewing from a lower viewpoint just not at the angle of when I'm playing the pin.

Hmm, I don't remember any issues like this with the glare guard and I am 6'2". I wonder if it is a difference between the old style wood speaker panel on WPT and the newer metal style I had on my later run Metallica.

Unfortunately the glare guard is a fact of life with the LED version. Not sure why it doesn't come installed from the manufacturer. Just one more reason I prefer the LCD. The LCD is polarized and especially on the newer games with metal backbox it doesn't reflect in either direction.

#783 3 months ago
Quoted from John_I:

Hmm, I don't remember any issues like this with the glare guard and I am 6'2". I wonder if it is a difference between the old style wood speaker panel on WPT and the newer metal style I had on my later run Metallica.
Unfortunately the glare guard is a fact of life with the LED version. Not sure why it doesn't come installed from the manufacturer. Just one more reason I prefer the LCD. The LCD is polarized and especially on the newer games with metal backbox it doesn't reflect in either direction.

Interesting. I appreciate your reply. It's definitely and issue that bothers me....Maybe I should have gone LCD in the first place. I tried to capture it the best I could here.

The first 2 photos show from my view...you can see the ghost image at the bottom of the letters/numbers.
IMG_3981 (resized).JPG
IMG_3982 (resized).JPG

The 3rd photo is from a couple of feet lower and you can see the ghosting double image is almost gone.
IMG_3984 (resized).JPG

If you look straight on at the screen, it looks great...it just looks muddy while I'm playing it. Not exactly that sharp crystal clear detail like I thought I was going to get with LED or LCD. Note that we thought that the double image would go away if I moved the glare guard onto the LED screen and off of the clear outer plexi. I'm not sure it made a difference at all.

#784 3 months ago
Quoted from Codeman00:

....Maybe I should have gone LCD in the first place.

Yup

#785 3 months ago

Can you clarify what / why you are seeing that?

I don't own any ColorDMDs (too cheap), but most of my pin buddies have them. A few LED exist and they are my favorite... and I've never seen this. I'm a bit over 6' 3".

... Altan

Quoted from Codeman00:

Interesting. I appreciate your reply. It's definitely and issue that bothers me....Maybe I should have gone LCD in the first place. I tried to capture it the best I could here.
The first 2 photos show from my view...you can see the ghost image at the bottom of the letters/numbers.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
The 3rd photo is from a couple of feet lower and you can see the ghosting double image is almost gone.
[quoted image]
If you look straight on at the screen, it looks great...it just looks muddy while I'm playing it. Not exactly that sharp crystal clear detail like I thought I was going to get with LED or LCD. Note that we thought that the double image would go away if I moved the glare guard onto the LED screen and off of the clear outer plexi. I'm not sure it made a difference at all.

#786 3 months ago
Quoted from altan:

Can you clarify what / why you are seeing that?
I don't own any ColorDMDs (too cheap), but most of my pin buddies have them. A few LED exist and they are my favorite... and I've never seen this. I'm a bit over 6' 3".

Yeah, I'm super confused by this. I have an LED in my Williams IJ, and I don't have a glare guard. Just the ColorDMD and the speaker panel plastic over it. I have looked at this thing from all angles and distances, and I can't see any of the double image effect you're getting here.

Is there something specific about the way WPT is built that might cause this? Is the double image effect worse when you take the glare guard completely out?

#787 3 months ago
Quoted from Codeman00:

Interesting. I appreciate your reply. It's definitely and issue that bothers me....Maybe I should have gone LCD in the first place. I tried to capture it the best I could here.

You might want to try my custom cover panel, it's a big improvement. I've never heard of it having that issue either.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/color-led-display-cover-panel-to-improve-contrast

#788 3 months ago

I have 7 LED's and NONE of them do that at any angel..... WTF

#789 3 months ago

It doesn't fix my issue but I'm happy to hear that everyone is on the same side in regards to this not being normal or correct. I don't have a lot of experience with the LED screens so I wasn't sure if what I was seeing was something that was odd or normal. I just emailed ColorDMD, I'll see what they say and report back.

Update: ColorDMD said they have no experience with the glare guard and I'm on my own.

So just to confirm, a glare guard is not needed for LCD?

#790 3 months ago
Quoted from Codeman00:

So just to confirm, a glare guard is not needed for LCD?

Not needed...

#791 3 months ago

You may have the glare guard upside down. I thought they all block both ways but I'm not sure. They are just those old laptop privacy screens you can't see on an angle. I have three with glare guards and I'm 6'1 and never had an issue. Where did you buy the guard maybe they are all not created equal.

#792 3 months ago
Quoted from Darscot:

You may have the glare guard upside down. I thought they all block both ways but I'm not sure. They are just those old laptop privacy screens you can't see on an angle. I have three with glare guards and I'm 6'1 and never had an issue. Where did you buy the guard maybe they are all not created equal.

This was the one that I bought. I didn't see any up or down on the product and it was recommended here. I guess I would have had to make the same mistake twice with the glare guard upside down but it's possible.
https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PBL-100-0114-00

#793 3 months ago
Quoted from Codeman00:

It doesn't fix my issue but I'm happy to hear that everyone is on the same side in regards to this not being normal or correct. I don't have a lot of experience with the LED screens so I wasn't sure if what I was seeing was something that was odd or normal. I just emailed ColorDMD, I'll see what they say and report back.
Update: ColorDMD said they have no experience with the glare guard and I'm on my own.
So just to confirm, a glare guard is not needed for LCD?

I don’t use a glare guard on any of my LEDs

#794 3 months ago
Quoted from Codeman00:

This was the one that I bought. I didn't see any up or down on the product and it was recommended here. I guess I would have had to make the same mistake twice with the glare guard upside down but it's possible.
https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PBL-100-0114-00

I just looked at my order history and looks like I bought mine from Comet. I have never had an issue with a Pinball Life product though. I don't think it would matter which way you mounted it, just running out of idea as to what could cause that.

#795 3 months ago
Quoted from Codeman00:

This was the one that I bought. I didn't see any up or down on the product and it was recommended here. I guess I would have had to make the same mistake twice with the glare guard upside down but it's possible.
https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PBL-100-0114-00

I got both of mine from Comet as well. I don't remember exactly but I do remember checking orientation. Was it upside down, was it backwards? I did but new DMD clear plexi for my Data East games to attach it to. Maybe it was the reflection on the clear plexi from the DMD if the guard was on the DMD instead of the plexi.

#796 3 months ago

I think you all are over complicating it with these glare guards... light blocking foam is the only 'mod' any of my installs has ever needed.

#797 3 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I think you all are over complicating it with these glare guards... light blocking foam is the only 'mod' any of my installs has ever needed.

To be fair the comet glare guard has worked on a Color DMD LED and an alternative LED product. Both Data East machines for me. I recommend the Stern LCD one for an Iron Maiden and they hated it. But yeah, I think the person seeing double has something installed wrong.

#798 3 months ago

The comet glare guard definitely helped my Metallica.

#799 3 months ago
Quoted from cabuford:

To be fair the comet glare guard has worked on a Color DMD LED and an alternative LED product. Both Data East machines for me. I recommend the Stern LCD one for an Iron Maiden and they hated it. But yeah, I think the person seeing double has something installed wrong.

I think I'm just going to end this quickly by going to LCD. After reading through the thread, it seems that the later Stern pinball machines do better with LCD anyway. That combined with the problems I'm having with this double image that I can't seem to diagnose or fix, LCD should cure my problem, give a more complete graphic, and I'll just sell off the LED panel in the classifieds.

#800 3 months ago

I would ask PinballLife since it’s their product.

I’ll try to replicate it tonight.

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