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(Topic ID: 171786)

ColorDMD - LCD versus LED?


By goatdan

4 years ago



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  • 814 posts
  • 260 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by LukyDuck
  • Topic is favorited by 96 Pinsiders

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#651 1 year ago
Quoted from Dmod:

The LEDs on the RGB modules used by ColorDMD are individually pick-and-placed so there isn't any clustering between groups of LEDs within a module. When fabricated, the surface tension on each of the solder pads helps to pull all the LEDs into position so they appear extremely uniform.
To get 128x32, two 64x32 modules are combined. At worst you would see a vertical seam midway between the two modules but this should be almost invisible. It's possible the modules shift during shipping and they can be adjusted by loosening the screws on the rear of the display and realigning them back into position.
The red, green, and blue emitters in each LED are actually in a row (or column) rather than a Y pattern. (A Y pattern would be better in my opinion). The separation for some colors (usually magenta or purple) may be visible when only the two outer LEDs are lit. Color convergence for LCD is better where the position of the red, green, blue pixels is much closer than the LED emitters.

You're just selling me more on the LCD

#652 1 year ago

Like all LCD vs. LED discussions; just shit or get off the pot

#653 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Like all LCD vs. LED discussions; just shit or get off the pot

Currently reading this thread while doing so

3 weeks later
#654 1 year ago

hi,
yesterday I installed a color dmd - lcd- to my Spiderman Vault. Now I am not quite sure which style I should use. What do you guys prefer, which style is the best for the smve? DotXL, hires,...?
Ralf

1 week later
#655 1 year ago
Quoted from flipper73:

hi,
yesterday I installed a color dmd - lcd- to my Spiderman Vault. Now I am not quite sure which style I should use. What do you guys prefer, which style is the best for the smve? DotXL, hires,...?
Ralf

Installed one in a buddy's SMVE and it's Dots all day. Looks fantastic!

#656 1 year ago

Anyone put the Led version in a Afm? Looking for pics or video.

4 weeks later
#657 1 year ago

I'm considering an DMDColor LCD for my Ghost Busters Premium, and then I realized the LCD top part sticking up into the back glass will very likely cast a shadow on the backglass-art making dark patch. Anyone who's using DMDColor LCD on a Ghostbusters or maybe any Spike machine, Could you please comment ?

LCD Shadow (resized).png
#658 1 year ago
Quoted from chucksmith:

I'm considering an DMDColor LCD for my Ghost Busters Premium, and then I realized the LCD top part sticking up into the back glass will very likely cast a shadow on the backglass-art making dark patch. Anyone who's using DMDColor LCD on a Ghostbusters or maybe any Spike machine, Could you please comment ?[quoted image]

No issues with shadow, also get the gasket!

Ill try and garb a pic later, LCD dot XL FTW!!!

#659 1 year ago

I am sold on the LED.... I know you can do dots on LCD but the brightness in the LED is fantastic.

#660 1 year ago
Quoted from hoby1:

I am sold on the LED.... I know you can do dots on LCD but the brightness in the LED is fantastic.

I need to start by saying I know 1/2 the people love the LCD and the other half love LED. I can see the pros/cons of both based on videos, but those who have experienced them in person, please comment on these photos.

I've started this discussion because I want to add a color dmd to my Ghostbusters premium , but I'm having trouble deciding which is right for me.
Your comments and input a greatly appreciated.

hoby1 ,
Q: When adjusted (brightness) properly, Is the LED brightness about the same or is it more than the standard LCD?

Q: The concerns I have LED are 2 things.
#1. People say the dots are smaller and the gaps between dots are larger than the OEM display.
#2. There appears to be a white crown on each LED. See photos comparing similar images from LED and LCD.

Quote from ColorDMD site:
On the down-side, the dots are smaller with more black space between them and, due to the spacing of the individual red, green, and blue LEDs, color convergence is not as good as the LCD.

LED1b (resized).pngled2 (resized).pngLED6 (resized).pngLCD1 (resized).pnglcd2 (resized).pnglcd4 (resized).png
#661 1 year ago

LED is brighter than LCD, and you can kind of make up for the spacing by upping the contrast and brightness a little. I don't notice any color bleed on the LED. What I did find annoying is the off-pixels on the LED like your first picture, but I used the below to fix that. I have an LED in my STPrem and LCD in GBPrem. Don't notice any shadow on GB. I prefer one or the other on certain games, but it's tough to predict which, I just have to try. I really like the LED for ST, maybe due to the better sharpness and brightness.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/color-led-display-cover-panel-to-improve-contrast

#662 1 year ago
Quoted from HighVoltage:

What I did find annoying is the off-pixels on the LED like your first picture, but I used the below to fix that.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/color-led-display-cover-panel-to-improve-contrast

I'm assuming this is a tinted plexi that replaces the clear one. Am I correct that you can forego the clear plexi shield when buying the LED module and then buy this one? Is it a 1-to-1 replacement or should you install both stacked?

#663 1 year ago

LCD is always the better choice, unless you have a game it wont fit it. Which is why they came out with the LED version. LCD hands down looks the best and DOTSXL is the best mode.

#664 1 year ago
Quoted from chucksmith:

I'm assuming this is a tinted plexi that replaces the clear one. Am I correct that you can forego the clear plexi shield when buying the LED module and then buy this one? Is it a 1-to-1 replacement or should you install both stacked?

Yes, drop-in replacement for the standard panel.

#665 1 year ago

One other fun thing about the LED kit is it's compatible with these large-size panels as well. I currently have them on my ST Premium and it's a fun novelty. But at that size, the spacing between dots becomes more obvious.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-big-is-too-big-for-a-dmd-/

#666 1 year ago
Quoted from chucksmith:

I'm considering an DMDColor LCD for my Ghost Busters Premium, and then I realized the LCD top part sticking up into the back glass will very likely cast a shadow on the backglass-art making dark patch. Anyone who's using DMDColor LCD on a Ghostbusters or maybe any Spike machine, Could you please comment ?[quoted image]

That looks like my game and it only has this issue because I have the LED backpanel mod installed in the game, wouldn't be an issue with the stock Flourescent tube, not sure about the LED strip used in Spike games.

#667 1 year ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

That looks like my game and it only has this issue because I have the LED backpanel mod installed in the game, wouldn't be an issue with the stock Flourescent tube, not sure about the LED strip used in Spike games.

Thanks! That's very helpful. The Spike machines have a small but "power of the sun" led set near the middle only. This may result in the light flooding around the LCD panel as indicated by @camcamaro1991 -- Any photos from LCD owners showing the backglass + LCD display would be great.

#668 1 year ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

That looks like my game and it only has this issue because I have the LED backpanel mod installed in the game, wouldn't be an issue with the stock Flourescent tube, not sure about the LED strip used in Spike games.

How does the larger lcd fit with the led upgraded bg? I have a led backbox kit on my iron Man and this may change my opinion if I take the plunge ....

Any insight is helpful

#669 1 year ago
Quoted from Meegis:

How does the larger lcd fit with the led upgraded bg? I have a led backbox kit on my iron Man and this may change my opinion if I take the plunge ....
Any insight is helpful

No fit problems at all, just the issue you see in the photo above where you get a slight shadow effect from the LCD panel. I have mine set to go really dark when in a game so you only notice it during attract mode and even then it's not real obvious because I don't have the panel cranked up real high, if it were brighter I imagine it would be more noticeable.

#670 1 year ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

No fit problems at all, just the issue you see in the photo above where you get a slight shadow effect from the LCD panel. I have mine set to go really dark when in a game so you only notice it during attract mode and even then it's not real obvious because I don't have the panel cranked up real high, if it were brighter I imagine it would be more noticeable.

Would you be able to snap a picture with the translite off?

Seeing it might make it more clear for me....

Appreciate any help

#671 1 year ago
Quoted from chucksmith:

I need to start by saying I know 1/2 the people love the LCD and the other half love LED. I can see the pros/cons of both based on videos, but those who have experienced them in person, please comment on these photos.
I've started this discussion because I want to add a color dmd to my Ghostbusters premium , but I'm having trouble deciding which is right for me.
Your comments and input a greatly appreciated.
hoby1 ,
Q: When adjusted (brightness) properly, Is the LED brightness about the same or is it more than the standard LCD?
Q: The concerns I have LED are 2 things.
#1. People say the dots are smaller and the gaps between dots are larger than the OEM display.
#2. There appears to be a white crown on each LED. See photos comparing similar images from LED and LCD.
Quote from ColorDMD site:
On the down-side, the dots are smaller with more black space between them and, due to the spacing of the individual red, green, and blue LEDs, color convergence is not as good as the LCD.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

These pictures are off to my eye. The LCD images are more vibrant in the pics than they are in real life. In the pictures you listed, the LCD images look more vibrant than the LED images, but in real life (in the game) the LED is much more vibrant. I prefer the LED to LCD for vibrancy, and I don't like most of the LCD modes. However, I prefer the LCD version in newer Stern games that have lots of live video (like GoT).

#672 1 year ago
Quoted from chucksmith:

I'm considering an DMDColor LCD for my Ghost Busters Premium, and then I realized the LCD top part sticking up into the back glass will very likely cast a shadow on the backglass-art making dark patch. Anyone who's using DMDColor LCD on a Ghostbusters or maybe any Spike machine, Could you please comment ?[quoted image]

I originally bought an LED for my Ghostbusters premium but have sold that and now have a LCD . IMO, LCD all the way. No shadow and as previously stated get the gasket as well.

#673 1 year ago
Quoted from Meegis:

Would you be able to snap a picture with the translite off?
Seeing it might make it more clear for me....
Appreciate any help

I've been a little busy working on other games the last couple nights but I'll try to find time to pull the translite out and snap a picture. I have the panel from Arcade Upkeep installed in mine in case that helps. http://www.arcadeupkeep.com/backbox-kits/4587457160

#674 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

LCD is always the better choice, unless you have a game it wont fit it. Which is why they came out with the LED version. LCD hands down looks the best and DOTSXL is the best mode.

Quoted from chucksmith:

I need to start by saying I know 1/2 the people love the LCD and the other half love LED. I can see the pros/cons of both based on videos, but those who have experienced them in person, please comment on these photos.
I've started this discussion because I want to add a color dmd to my Ghostbusters premium , but I'm having trouble deciding which is right for me.
Your comments and input a greatly appreciated.
hoby1 ,
Q: When adjusted (brightness) properly, Is the LED brightness about the same or is it more than the standard LCD?
Q: The concerns I have LED are 2 things.
#1. People say the dots are smaller and the gaps between dots are larger than the OEM display.
#2. There appears to be a white crown on each LED. See photos comparing similar images from LED and LCD.
Quote from ColorDMD site:
On the down-side, the dots are smaller with more black space between them and, due to the spacing of the individual red, green, and blue LEDs, color convergence is not as good as the LCD.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Camera's can misrepresent depending upon a variety of factors. If you are going to compare, you really need the same shot of both using the same exact lighting and the same exact camera setup. Ultimately, it is best to see them in person. I fall into the LED camp for most games. The colors are more vibrant, brighter, and deeper blacks while having the overall visual of an original amber DMD. However, as others have stated, if the game has a lot of video then I would probably lean more towards the LCD due to its smoothness when it comes to animation.

Ultimately, in the vast majority of games (especially the traditional DMD ones) you don't really interact with the screen that much during actual gameplay. Personally, I find myself having to intentionally look up to admire the color, but often lose focus on the game at hand. In a sense, color is for those watching. However, I have to admit that I have colored DMDs on both of my current games, and will always opt for it when given the choice. However, it just wouldn't be the first upgrade I add to most pins.

#675 1 year ago
Quoted from chucksmith:

Thanks! That's very helpful. The Spike machines have a small but "power of the sun" led set near the middle only. This may result in the light flooding around the LCD panel as indicated by @camcamaro1991 -- Any photos from LCD owners showing the backglass + LCD display would be great.

Sorry I slept since then... here you go!

LCD is plenty bright enough, LCD color shading is superior to LED.

you need the LCD ColorDMD kit, it includes the LCD, clear plexi, gasket, wiring harness for spike. SKU = GB-SHIELD

$423 http://shop.colordmd.com/colordmd-replacement-display-for-ghostbusters-pinball-machine/

&

$22 http://shop.colordmd.com/lcd-foam-gasket-stretch-fit/

so about $445ish

ColorDMD004 (resized).JPG

#676 1 year ago
Quoted from chucksmith:

I've started this discussion because I want to add a color dmd to my Ghostbusters premium , but I'm having trouble deciding which is right for me.
Your comments and input a greatly appreciated.

I have been slowly converting the fleet of games in my basement to ColorDMD, and I also have a Ghostbusters Premium. I think I've said the same thing in here before, but for me personally I have found an easy way to choose (since I started this thread, actually! )

Older DMD games used only four shades of DMD color. For those, the LED looks absolutely outstanding as they do a great job separating the colors and displaying everything. I have LEDs in games like Popeye, WWFRR and STTNG and I think they look great.

I work with some older games with LCDs in them on a regular basis - DM and JD are the two coming to mind. To me, the LCD makes them a bit more washed out.

Later, and I don't know exactly when the splits happened, Stern figured out how to run a ton of shade variation in the DMDs. In some cases, like Spider-Man, I think this led to the DMDs looking pretty bad as they used actual film stuff but with red. The LCD versions of the color DMD handle variations in color significantly better in my opinion, perhaps because they lack the color intensity of the LED or whatever, but I find that in all cases, they look better in the Stern games with multiple shades.

These are also the only games that I find work decently with the different dot modes - but even without, I have seen LEDs in them and I don't think they look as good.

I have ColorDMD LCDs in Ghostbusters Premium, Metallica and Iron Man and I wouldn't change those. I also work with some newer games on a regular basis, and almost all of them have Color DMDs (or they get them when they blow their original DMDs) and the LCD ones in all of them look great. Spider-Man, Family Guy, Tron all look good like that.

The one game that comes to mind that I would lean toward changing it is South Park. South Park works really well with the LCD smoothing effects to look even more South-Park-ish than the original, even though I believe that it's earlier than the multi-shade cut off of my rule

#677 1 year ago

Five pics to show. You can see how many more colors there are in the Ghostbusters one specifically compared to the Popeye two. I realized this as I snapped these photos - the fact the dots are larger with more colors is, I think, the reason I like it more with the GB one as an LCD. It blends the colors a bit more.

Now, I should also state, your milage may vary, but I know my preference now is very strong.

IMG_20190813_172334 (resized).jpgIMG_20190813_172345 (resized).jpgIMG_20190813_172154 (resized).jpgIMG_20190813_172258 (resized).jpgIMG_20190813_172210 (resized).jpg
#678 1 year ago

What the heck. Close ups too.. I think this shows what I mean.

IMG_20190813_173131 (resized).jpgIMG_20190813_173231 (resized).jpgIMG_20190813_173230 (resized).jpg
#679 1 year ago
Quoted from goatdan:

What the heck. Close ups too.. I think this shows what I mean.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Excellent, thank you for taking the time to post this information. Much better than some long winded views.

#680 1 year ago
Quoted from goatdan:

Five pics to show. You can see how many more colors there are in the Ghostbusters one specifically compared to the Popeye two. I realized this as I snapped these photos - the fact the dots are larger with more colors is, I think, the reason I like it more with the GB one as an LCD. It blends the colors a bit more.
Now, I should also state, your milage may vary, but I know my preference now is very strong. [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Those all look fantastic, well, except for Metallica (not a fan of "hi-rez" mode).

#681 1 year ago
Quoted from Fytr:

Those all look fantastic, well, except for Metallica (not a fan of "hi-rez" mode).

I like hi rez on Metallica, South Park and Family Fuy. Beyond those three, it's the simulated dots for me on the lcds.

#682 1 year ago

I run DOTSXL on all my games, it's the perfect setting

1 month later
#683 1 year ago

I love all my games in LED. Viewing angle is much better , brightness and fit and finish are way better all around

#684 1 year ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

LCD is always the better choice, unless you have a game it wont fit it. Which is why they came out with the LED version. LCD hands down looks the best and DOTSXL is the best mode.

I agree with above, LCD is awesome.

1 month later
#685 1 year ago
Quoted from goatdan:

I like hi rez on Metallica, South Park and Family Fuy. Beyond those three, it's the simulated dots for me on the lcds.

@goatdan I'm pulling the trigger for a LCD ColorDmd for my Metallica premium...should I also get the Gasket for glare? (As I read here is important for a game like Ghostbusters? Or is it not necessary?)
Thank you!!!

#686 1 year ago
Quoted from HectorCM:

@goatdan I'm pulling the trigger for a LCD ColorDmd for my Metallica premium...should I also get the Gasket for glare? (As I read here is important for a game like Ghostbusters? Or is it not necessary?)
Thank you!!!

If your back box old wood with square speakers or metal with circle speakers?

#687 1 year ago
Quoted from HectorCM:

@goatdan I'm pulling the trigger for a LCD ColorDmd for my Metallica premium...should I also get the Gasket for glare? (As I read here is important for a game like Ghostbusters? Or is it not necessary?)
Thank you!!!

LCD's IMO pretty much require the gasket 100% unless you have wood (this is due to the gasket thickness). like the older SAM and Whitestar, the current kits dont allow for enough room and I believe a thinner gasket should be offered at 1/2 the thickness or more,

Gasket helps with dust off the back side of the clear lens, also longer spacers could fix the thickness issues or if your willing to slice it yourself which I would bet most folks dont have foam cutters/hotwire. I actually prefer the LCD to sit further back gives it a nice look with the added depth and reduces DMD reflection, even with HD glass as the angled dmd panels dont always fix the reflection.

#688 1 year ago
Quoted from camcamaro1991:

LCD's IMO pretty much require the gasket 100% unless you have wood (this is due to the gasket thickness). like the older SAM and Whitestar, the current kits dont allow for enough room and I believe a thinner gasket should be offered at 1/2 the thickness or more,
Gasket helps with dust off the back side of the clear lens, also longer spacers could fix the thickness issues or if your willing to slice it yourself which I would bet most folks dont have foam cutters/hotwire. I actually prefer the LCD to sit further back gives it a nice look with the added depth and reduces DMD reflection, even with HD glass as the angled dmd panels dont always fix the reflection.

I may break down and get one of these but I'm going to get a $2 sheet of foam at the craft store and cut one out myself.

$22 for a foam gasket? Jesus.

$24 for a clear piece of plastic and a couple bucks worth of spacers doesn't give you much faith in their pricing system either.

I don't mean to sound so negative but paying $450 (with shipping) for a small LCD screen doesn't thrill me.

I know they would say it's an odd size so you can't get them dirt cheap like other LCD screens, yadda yadda but the frugal side of me (read:cheap) simply rebels at this purchase

But where else can ya go? I get it.

----

#689 1 year ago
Quoted from Manic:

I may break down and get one of these but I'm going to get a $2 sheet of foam at the craft store and cut one out myself.
$22 for a foam gasket? Jesus.
$24 for a clear piece of plastic and a couple bucks worth of spacers doesn't give you much faith in their pricing system either.
I don't mean to sound so negative but paying $450 (with shipping) for a small LCD screen doesn't thrill me.
I know they would say it's an odd size so you can't get them dirt cheap like other LCD screens, yadda yadda but the frugal side of me (read:cheap) simply rebels at this purchase
But where else can ya go? I get it.
----

IMO the 450 is better than buying LED esp... on newer Sterns. In the end it looks like OEM.
This is the 1 of 2 mods I can justifying this price, that and my Stern GB's topper.

#690 1 year ago

Just picked up a second hand LCD locally, I prefer the LED but it was a good price. Question is which game do you think it would look best in out of WCS, IM or LOTR?

#691 1 year ago
Quoted from jsyjay:

Just picked up a second hand LCD locally, I prefer the LED but it was a good price. Question is which game do you think it would look best in out of WCS, IM or LOTR?

IM will benefit the most from an LCD version. Get the LED version for WCS or LOTR.

#692 1 year ago

Im with Dots XL looks fantastic.

#693 1 year ago
Quoted from jsyjay:

Just picked up a second hand LCD locally, I prefer the LED but it was a good price. Question is which game do you think it would look best in out of WCS, IM or LOTR?

It is a personal preference. For me, LCD in all 3.

#694 1 year ago

I've had both, but prefer LED. The blacks in the LCD still light up a bit. The blacks in the LED do not emit any light at all. As the majority of real estate on a DMD is usually black, this makes a huge difference. If you do go LCD, it's DOTs XL all the way. Both are great but it's a Coke or Pepsi question. Both are good but it comes down to personal preference.

#695 1 year ago

Thanks for the answers, I already have LED in my WCS and LOTR so the LCD will go in IM on Dots XL.

#696 1 year ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:

I've had both, but prefer LED. The blacks in the LCD still light up a bit. The blacks in the LED do not emit any light at all. As the majority of real estate on a DMD is usually black, this makes a huge difference. If you do go LCD, it's DOTs XL all the way. Both are great but it's a Coke or Pepsi question. Both are good but it comes down to personal preference.

I don’t think you’re adjusting your (backlight to contrast properly). Every color DMD LED I’ve seen in person and in pictures looks gray when trying to emit black. The LCD blacks look well, black.

483EF6F5-E976-4D04-A44A-C5B4DC145F4B (resized).jpegC48B8156-83C6-43C2-950E-C3A0CA907B29 (resized).pngF3E8328A-FF93-463F-B35B-E45D92D7957E (resized).png
1 week later
#697 1 year ago
Quoted from Bowlingpin:

The LCD blacks look well, black.

As long as you don't have therm next to an LED screen which really show a difference.

In that case, the LCD blacks look well, not that dark. It's very noticeable.

#698 1 year ago

Thinking LCD for Williams STTNG...hmm

#699 1 year ago
Quoted from eldawg:

Thinking LCD for Williams STTNG...hmm

Nothing to think aboot, LCD has more options to set it up the way you like it, order it now.

#700 12 months ago
Quoted from RTS:

As long as you don't have therm next to an LED screen which really show a difference.
In that case, the LCD blacks look well, not that dark. It's very noticeable.

What?! It's actually the opposite, the off "pixels" on LED displays reflect way more light than an LCD, resulting in poor blacks. It's very obvious, see it all the time on pinball pics. I just did a search and quickly found this example - click it to get the native size to really see. That's black? Look at the dead area around the display - that's black. When I installed LED on my Star Trek, it triggered my OCD and I couldn't rest 'til I found a fix. I figured out a much better panel than the usual clear ones that radically reduces this effect. I started to sell them to others figuring I can't be the only one bothered by this.

LEDContrast (resized).jpg

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