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(Topic ID: 171786)

ColorDMD - LCD versus LED?


By goatdan

4 years ago



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  • 814 posts
  • 260 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by LukyDuck
  • Topic is favorited by 96 Pinsiders

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There are 814 posts in this topic. You are on page 13 of 17.
#601 2 years ago
Quoted from wxforecaster:

From the horses mouth, do you side with the opinion that the LEDs are preferred on older games w/ limited brightness levels as opposed to newer games w/ substantially more brightness levels and more full animation art?

Most people probably wouldn't notice a difference in LED characteristics between older and newer games unless it was pointed out. Even then, it's unlikely the number of brightness levels output by the game would be a deciding factor in choosing LED or LCD. Customers who start with one display type tend to stick with it across all their supported games.

#602 2 years ago

Just put a LED ColorDMD in my Premium GB : it's perfect !

#603 2 years ago

Agreed with Dmod... preference > guidelines.

LED’s have a certain look to them. Brighter, but ironically with less coverage due to the black spacing grid separating the pixels.

If intensity is your main thing, you’ll trend LED. If coverage, LCD.

I have an Addams Family with LED, but would prefer the LCD. The pixel grid bugs me. I’d rather see more fill and color.

#604 2 years ago
Quoted from NicoVolta:

Agreed with Dmod... preference > guidelines.
LED’s have a certain look to them. Brighter, but ironically with less coverage due to the black spacing grid separating the pixels.
If intensity is your main thing, you’ll trend LED. If coverage, LCD.
I have an Addams Family with LED, but would prefer the LCD. The pixel grid bugs me. I’d rather see more fill and color.

I started out with led on my Dirty Harry and it looked really well. I loved the brightness that it gave, but the dot size bothered me a little bit so I tried an lcd on my next pin. I liked it much better than the led. The dotsxl and hires are much better for me. I probably won’t go back to led. In fact, I’d be willing to swap my led and $30 for an lcd if anyone local is interested.

#605 2 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

Most people probably wouldn't notice a difference in LED characteristics between older and newer games unless it was pointed out.

But .... but ... my soapbox!

#606 2 years ago

No one type is inherently better, it depends on what you like. But either LCD or LED is a huge improvement over the factory display, that's the big takeaway. ColorDMD has a booth at many pinball festivals where they set both displays side be side and you can judge for yourself which one you like best. And of course many of the machines have ColorDMDs so you can easily get a feel for which display type suits you best. I put an LCD in my Spider-man VE and either set it on HIRES or DOTSXL.....very happy with the result. But I would probably be happy if I had chosen an LED display. The addition of color is the big advantage to either of these formats.

#607 2 years ago

I really like that the ColorDMD LCD sits a little further back, no reflection on my playfield glass which is a nice plus, which before the my STLE and GB had a little bit of a reflection before with the stock/factory Red/Orange LED. My Harley Davidson ColorDMD LED has loads reflection even with HD glass, but the panel is not angled like my STLE & GB. ColorDMD please color the HD, I know your getting closer to fewer and fewer colorable games. PLEASE, 100# or 3 out of 3 pins have ColorDMD's in them.

#608 2 years ago
Quoted from wxforecaster:

From the horses mouth, do you side with the opinion that the LEDs are preferred on older games w/ limited brightness levels as opposed to newer games w/ substantially more brightness levels and more full animation art?

I'm not the horse's mouth, but I started the thread so...

I ended up buying (so far) one of each. LED in STTNG and LCD in Metallica. Having said that, I have been working with a collection of games that has about 10 color DMDs now on a regular basis and in short...

I think the LED looks more "correct" in the older games. It looks like how their DMDs looked, and the four color thing makes them feel just about right.

The newer Stern games I always thought their DMDs looked like they couldn't handle whatever the art was supposed to be. The LCD allows you to smooth that and make it seem more like how I would expect it to be, honestly.

I intend to get more in the future, and my rule of thumb will probably be pre-2000 games will be LED and post 2000 games will be LCD. Will have to make determinations on any Whitestar games...

#609 2 years ago

Are there any characters in the WPC pallet for Custom Message that the LCD cannot reproduce in certain non-dots modes? I wasn't really testing for anything other than getting STTNG (LCD) and CV (LED, obviously) ready for Pincinnati and I put an asterisk in both TNG does not show the asterisk, only CV does. I currently have STTNG set for HiRes but I'll try some of the other modes when I get it pulled out of the lineup and ready to pack up for transport. Obviously this could be game ROM or WPC-89 versus 95 related, etc.

#610 1 year ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Are there any characters in the WPC pallet for Custom Message that the LCD cannot reproduce in certain non-dots modes? I wasn't really testing for anything other than getting STTNG (LCD) and CV (LED, obviously) ready for Pincinnati and I put an asterisk in both TNG does not show the asterisk, only CV does. I currently have STTNG set for HiRes but I'll try some of the other modes when I get it pulled out of the lineup and ready to pack up for transport. Obviously this could be game ROM or WPC-89 versus 95 related, etc.

I would say that the game ROM doesn't support the asterisk. Because ColorDMD doesn't display character as in text but only replaces the dots from the existing image. Worst case scenario is that your text might not be colored but should be displayed.

#611 1 year ago

I'm an LED guy now. Cheaper, smaller, easier to install, looks better, and more durable (I've seen the LCDs cracked in shipping).

I think upscaling is dumb 100% of the time so not an issue for me. If you prefer your DMD animations bastardized into blobs the LCD is your only choice.

#612 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I'm an LED guy now. Cheaper, smaller, easier to install, looks better, and more durable (I've seen the LCDs cracked in shipping).
I think upscaling is dumb 100% of the time so not an issue for me. If you prefer your DMD animations bastardized into blobs the LCD is your only choice.

It seems to me that most use the Dots XL on the LCD? Is it really that much better than the standard dots? I've seen a few videos of the LED running and either the cameras can't handle the display clearly or they are kind of murky or blurry? I also like that you can see the display on an LED from an angle and you lose view at angles on the LCD? I personally like to keep things as original as possible although the color screens really look fantastic enough to upgrade.

#613 1 year ago
Quoted from Koos:

I would say that the game ROM doesn't support the asterisk. Because ColorDMD doesn't display character as in text but only replaces the dots from the existing image. Worst case scenario is that your text might not be colored but should be displayed.

It's odd because it shows the asterisk when entering the custom message (otherwise I wouldn't know it was even there) but those menus aren't scaled by the modes like the actual in-game images are, it just won't show it when in attract mode which leads me to believe it's related to the scaling. The custom message text isn't colored anyway on either game.

#614 1 year ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

It's odd because it shows the asterisk when entering the custom message (otherwise I wouldn't know it was even there) but those menus aren't scaled by the modes like the actual in-game images are, it just won't show it when in attract mode which leads me to believe it's related to the scaling. The custom message text isn't colored anyway on either game.

Custom messages aren't colored by the ColorDMD system because it's just a screen of text (that can be anything) with no way to identify it. So it shows in whatever the default color is for the rom and exactly what the display signal is sending. So, the missing asterisk on that screen is what the game is sending to the display, not altered by the ColorDMD in any way.

19
#615 1 year ago

I definitely prefer the LED. Much brighter and looks clearer, with no washout. LCD even looks a little bit pixelated (like the difference of looking at an older MacBook screen after seeing the Retina display).

IMO ColorDMD is not here to help us pretend that our mid 90s pin is a modern masterpiece by denying it’s a dot matrix. There is an art in the simplicity of the dot animation that’s lost in the filters of the LCDs.
84B9B39F-D068-415B-BD56-207DD4D39E59 (resized).jpeg

#616 1 year ago

I like LED on some games and LCD on others. The LED looks good on my ST. The one thing I couldn't get over was how much the off-pixels stood out. I didn't do a before and after on my ST, but you can see it well on the examples posted in the GB thread. I experimented with different panels and found something that really reduced this effect. Someone asked me to make one for them, and am about to do so. If anyone else wants to reduce this effect, I can make one for you too for $20. Or if you have a clear panel you want to improve, I can also provide self-adhesive polarized film for $10: it's also something I experimented with, which also helps a lot, but not as well as the panel in these pics.

GB-Clear (resized).jpg
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#617 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

I definitely prefer the LED. Much brighter and looks clearer, with no washout.

Ha yeah...nothing washed out anywhere else on that machine

#618 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

I definitely prefer the LED. Much brighter and looks clearer, with no washout. LCD even looks a little bit pixelated (like the difference of looking at an older MacBook screen after seeing the Retina display).

IMO ColorDMD is not here to help us pretend that our mid 90s pin is a modern masterpiece by denying it’s a dot matrix. There is an art in the simplicity of the dot animation that’s lost in the filters of the LCDs.

Very well said sir and I couldn't agree more.

#619 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I'm an LED guy now. Cheaper, smaller, easier to install, looks better, and more durable (I've seen the LCDs cracked in shipping).
I think upscaling is dumb 100% of the time so not an issue for me. If you prefer your DMD animations bastardized into blobs the LCD is your only choice.

Curious, do you feel this way on the newer Sterns? I feel like they have built it DMD animations that have been pre-bastardized into blobs, and some of the LCD smoothing modes help them look somewhat better. For sure those games with rendered animation I think look FAR better.

1 week later
#620 1 year ago

I like both the LCD & LED displays. I have used what is easiest to install since both look good. I have LED displays in AF, BR, A13 & BW. I have LCD displays in ST, FT, WH2O, RS, POTC, & MON

2 months later
#621 1 year ago

LCD or LED for TZ?

#622 1 year ago
Quoted from Damonator:

I sold off all my ColorDMD LCDs and went 100% LED. Here's why I like the LED better:
1) cheaper
2) uses less power (very important with multiple mods)
3) colors are more vibrant and brighter
4) plug and play (I can keep my TAF light board, not cut my TFTC speaker panel, only option for CV)
5) no dark shadow at the bottom of my Stern translights
6) no ugly bezel showing at the sides of my WPC95 games
I tried keeping a mix of the LEDs and LCDs for a while, but after you see the LED in a game, the LCDs just look washed out. Even my wife noticed a big difference and she doesn't notice much about pinball (a blessing and a curse).

I have LED in my CV. Don't you notice that it seems to take a while for the LED's top become fully bright. Also, they seem blurry to me. I saw one recently in a STLE, I did not like the look. Very bright but looked blurry IMO.

#623 1 year ago
Quoted from Edster:

I have LED in my CV. Don't you notice that it seems to take a while for the LED's top become fully bright. Also, they seem blurry to me. I saw one recently in a STLE, I did not like the look. Very bright but looked blurry IMO.

I don't understand how an LED display would look blurry.....Do they all look blurry to you?

#624 1 year ago

I just installed a LED display in my World Cup Soccer. The display looks amazing. Colors are vivid, display is crisp and clean. Not too bright at all, even in my dark basement. I went with the LED as I had no interest in the smoothing affect offered by the LCD. I wanted to stick with traditional dots. Also nice that it takes up no more room than the original display. Installed it looks factory.

#625 1 year ago
Quoted from Edster:

I have LED in my CV. Don't you notice that it seems to take a while for the LED's top become fully bright. Also, they seem blurry to me. I saw one recently in a STLE, I did not like the look. Very bright but looked blurry IMO.

I have not found this to be true. My WCS display that I just installed is crisp, defined and 100% bright from the start.

#626 1 year ago
Quoted from Edster:

Also, they seem blurry to me.

I had a similar issue.

Prescription eye glasses fixed it.

4 weeks later
#627 1 year ago

I've a current generation Stern ColorDMD LED kit I'm thinking about selling (metal backbox type with clear shield & Comet Glare Guard installed). PM if interested. $400 shipped

1 month later
#628 1 year ago

I'll choose LED over LCD all day. I can probably use flexible led modules (like this: https://dynamo-led-displays.co.uk/product-category/flexible-led-module/) to mod my pinball.

#629 1 year ago

I just installed my first ColorDmd and being a large size Sega game I didn't have any choice as they only come in LED. I think it looks great and I wouldn't have picked an LCD version even if I could.

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#630 1 year ago

I was torn between the two for my Ghostbusters pin, but after now playing games with each an LED and LCD, I definitely prefer the LED and I am glad it's what I got. LCD is nice though...I definitely can understand the arguments in favor of each option.

16
#631 1 year ago

Glad to see all the LED love here. That upscaling effect on the LCD screens just does not work for me at all. It makes all that beatiful dot-matrix art look lumpy, and it feels like a disservice to the original work. I even find the old monochromatic DMD to be preferable to the colour LCD display.

And I really just came here to say I love, love, love the LED screen in my Williams IJ. Absolute perfection!

20190524_160615-01 (resized).jpeg
#632 1 year ago
Quoted from AaronZOOM:

Glad to see all the LED love here

Added bonus is they are cheaper, too!

win- win.

#633 1 year ago
Quoted from AaronZOOM:

Glad to see all the LED love here. That upscaling effect on the LCD screens just does not work for me at all. It makes all that beatiful dot-matrix art look lumpy, and it feels like a disservice to the original work. I even find the old monochromatic DMD to be preferable to the colour LCD display.
And I really just came here to say I love, love, love the LED screen in my Williams IJ. Absolute perfection![quoted image]

Honestly, I have IJ too and was torn on whether or not to put a color DMD in it. Is it worth it? I like to think that it feels better to keep it more vintage and not upgraded.

#634 1 year ago
Quoted from PinDoctor82:

Honestly, I have IJ too and was torn on whether or not to put a color DMD in it. Is it worth it? I like to think that it feels better to keep it more vintage and not upgraded.

Purposefully choosing to not install a ColorDMD into a comparable game is like being on the verge of an orgasm, everything stopping, you waiting for 6 months, and then the deed being finished and someone telling you "You should be thanking me, you had an orgasm that lasted 6 months!!!"

Get a ColorDMD. LED version.

#635 1 year ago
Quoted from NPO:

Purposefully choosing to not install a ColorDMD into a comparable game is like being on the verge of an orgasm, everything stopping, you waiting for 6 months, and then the deed being finished and someone telling you "You should be thanking me, you had an orgasm that lasted 6 months!!!"
Get a ColorDMD. LED version.

A simple "YES!" would have sufficed...hahahahahahaha.

#636 1 year ago
Quoted from PinDoctor82:

A simple "YES!" would have sufficed...hahahahahahaha.

Might as well order one for GB at the same time. Once you do one, your going to want all in color. Hands down the best mod EVER for DMD pins.

#637 1 year ago

I was fretting over which way to go when I was getting my first color DMD. Now I have both versions and like them both. It is a mandatory buy for me now. Ya you don't look up at the DMD a ton when playing, but when you do or when watching others play the color looks amazing. The first thing I do now when contemplating buying a dmd game is see if they have the color version and play the promo clip.

#638 1 year ago
Quoted from PinDoctor82:

A simple "YES!" would have sufficed...hahahahahahaha.

Hehehehe. I like using similes and metaphors ; ). They're entertaining to think up or borrow : ).

#639 1 year ago
Quoted from dugmar:

I just installed a LED display in my World Cup Soccer. The display looks amazing. Colors are vivid, display is crisp and clean. Not too bright at all, even in my dark basement. I went with the LED as I had no interest in the smoothing affect offered by the LCD. I wanted to stick with traditional dots. Also nice that it takes up no more room than the original display. Installed it looks factory.

Anyway you could post up a short vid? I'm tied between the two for WCS...

#640 1 year ago

ColorDMD LED listed for sale.

Archived after 0 days
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Mod - For Sale
Used, good condition “100% working latest generation ColorDMD (purchased in October of 2016). Includes new (unused) connection kit for SAM/Whitestar system. Includes Clear Shield for Metal Speaker Pane...”
2019-05-30
Tucson, AZ
330 (Firm)

#641 1 year ago
Quoted from Grandnational007:

Anyway you could post up a short vid? I'm tied between the two for WCS...

Sure, I will today.

#642 1 year ago
Quoted from Grandnational007:

Anyway you could post up a short vid? I'm tied between the two for WCS...

#643 1 year ago

Camera frame rate makes it look bad. It’s much better to the human eye.

#644 1 year ago
Quoted from Grandnational007:

Anyway you could post up a short vid? I'm tied between the two for WCS...

I have the LED version in our World Cup Soccer. It looks great!

#645 1 year ago

Ok, so I tried to pay attention at the NW Pin Show tonight and I think I saw one thing about the debate that is going to make me go LCD. If I am correct, on the LED I could actually see the "segments" of LEDs (like 8x8 squares or something) behind a shiny black "plastic" coating. If that is actually correct, if that is the LED screen then I am going to go LCD as that would drive me nuts. Can someone confirm that is actually the situation?

#646 1 year ago

That wasn’t a ColorDMD. There are no 8x8 blocks on any of our displays.

There were a number of early single color LED displays from other manufacturers that did use 8x8 blocks. What you saw was likely one of those.

#647 1 year ago
Quoted from Dmod:

That wasn’t a ColorDMD. There are no 8x8 blocks on any of our displays.
There were a number of early single color LED displays from other manufacturers that did use 8x8 blocks. What you saw was likely one of those.

Dang it! Back to square one, lol. I know either way I can't go wrong

#648 1 year ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Ok, so I tried to pay attention at the NW Pin Show tonight and I think I saw one thing about the debate that is going to make me go LCD. If I am correct, on the LED I could actually see the "segments" of LEDs (like 8x8 squares or something) behind a shiny black "plastic" coating. If that is actually correct, if that is the LED screen then I am going to go LCD as that would drive me nuts. Can someone confirm that is actually the situation?

I own both ColorDMD's, 1x LED (my 1st ColorDMD purchase for Whitestar) and 2x LCD's ( 2-3 purchase for Sam & Spike) ColorDMD's, This as been discussed many times. I feel what you are saying about the segments, since the LED uses a RGB 3 color emitter's in a single node "Y" pattern, in some colors you can see the single emitter produce light, which can off center a cluster of LED's, in addition to the block/pack of LED's, they can have slightly larger gap or separation or angled slightly towards or away from the user, between the blocks to them adding to a misalignment, which the factory Stern LED suffer from as well, which I do notice it drove me crazy on my factory Stern LED on my GB.

I prefer the LCD for the most consistent & even look, esp... since DOTs & DOTXL (<-my favorite) delivers on a very accurate DMD experience, color, perfect alignment. ColorDMD demo's their YouTube videos with LCD pattern for obvious reasons, you get exactly what you see in the videos on your pin.

Regardless which you choose. IMO, ColorDMD is the single most important mod I have done on my pins, they are worth every penny. ColorDMD please color HD, you could knock out 2 brand pins, Sega and Stern!

#649 1 year ago
Quoted from camcamaro1991:

I own both ColorDMD's, 1x LED (my 1st ColorDMD purchase for Whitestar) and 2x LCD's ( 2-3 purchase for Sam &amp; Spike) ColorDMD's, This as been discussed many times. I feel what you are saying about the segments, since the LED uses a RGB 3 color emitter's in a single node "Y" pattern, in some colors you can see the single emitter produce light, which can off center a cluster of LED's, in addition to the block/pack of LED's, they can have slightly larger gap or separation or angled slightly towards or away from the user, between the blocks to them adding to a misalignment, which the factory Stern LED suffer from as well, which I do notice it drove me crazy on my factory Stern LED on my GB.
I prefer the LCD for the most consistent &amp; even look, esp... since DOTs &amp; DOTXL (&lt;-my favorite) delivers on a very accurate DMD experience, color, perfect alignment. ColorDMD demo's their YouTube videos with LCD pattern for obvious reasons, you get exactly what you see in the videos on your pin.
Regardless which you choose. IMO, ColorDMD is the single most important mod I have done on my pins, they are worth every penny. ColorDMD please color HD, you could knock out 2 brand pins, Sega and Stern!

The LEDs on the RGB modules used by ColorDMD are individually pick-and-placed so there isn't any clustering between groups of LEDs within a module. When fabricated, the surface tension on each of the solder pads helps to pull all the LEDs into position so they appear extremely uniform.

To get 128x32, two 64x32 modules are combined. At worst you would see a vertical seam midway between the two modules but this should be almost invisible. It's possible the modules shift during shipping and they can be adjusted by loosening the screws on the rear of the display and realigning them back into position.

The red, green, and blue emitters in each LED are actually in a row (or column) rather than a Y pattern. (A Y pattern would be better in my opinion). The separation for some colors (usually magenta or purple) may be visible when only the two outer LEDs are lit. Color convergence for LCD is better where the position of the red, green, blue pixels is much closer than the LED emitters.

#650 1 year ago
Quoted from Dmod:

The LEDs on the RGB modules used by ColorDMD are individually pick-and-placed so there isn't any clustering between groups of LEDs within a module. When fabricated, the surface tension on each of the solder pads helps to pull all the LEDs into position so they appear extremely uniform.
To get 128x32, two 64x32 modules are combined. At worst you would see a vertical seam midway between the two modules but this should be almost invisible. It's possible the modules shift during shipping and they can be adjusted by loosening the screws on the rear of the display and realigning them back into position.
The red, green, and blue emitters in each LED are actually in a row (or column) rather than a Y pattern. (A Y pattern would be better in my opinion). The separation for some colors (usually magenta or purple) may be visible when only the two outer LEDs are lit. Color convergence for LCD is better where the position of the red, green, blue pixels is much closer than the LED emitters.

I do see the 2 modules, and the vertical seam.

Thanks for correcting me, my bad ColorDMD

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