(Topic ID: 171786)

ColorDMD - LCD versus LED?


By goatdan

2 years ago



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There are 682 posts in this topic. You are on page 11 of 14.
#501 1 year ago
Quoted from Robl45:

I was thinking of doing color DMD for one or two of my machines. I honestly don't understand the debate. If the machine won't fit the LCD, you use LED. Otherwise, why on god's earth would you want to use something that is clearly inferior on the machine? Nostalgia is great, but the LCD animation is much better than looking at dots.

You can call it nostalgia I suppose, but brighter colors, better fit and lower cost are all great reasons to go LED. You don't have to HATE one and LOVE the other tho, they're both great. I have both. I love them both. It's just a matter of application. If you gotta have smoothing modes, you gotta go LCD. If you don't bother with that and just like dots, save a little cash and go LED. If you have a Stern or a backbox feature that LCD will require a mod or a compromise that you don't feel like making, go LED. It's all up to you. To me the LCD HIRES just looks too blobby when you get rid of dots so I end up running in a dots emulation mode anyways, and why bother in that case? So I get a true DMD and call it good.

#502 1 year ago
Quoted from gunstarhero:

why bother in that case? So I get a true DMD and call it good.

There are still reasons to not like the LED, even if you prefer dots. For example - on certain colors, the color separation between the R,G and B LEDs in the display is apparent. That bothers some people. Another thing is that as the dots get dimmer on the LED, the points of light actually get smaller, with the LCD the dot is the same size, but is a dimmer shade. And then there's the brightness ramping issue that I post about way too often.

Anyway, point is, there ARE still decent reasons to use LCD over LED even if you don't like the smoothing. It's all just a matter of preference.

#503 1 year ago
Quoted from Fytr:

I've been using bent plastics with great success for dealing with DMD glare on the PF, but was curious about how well the anti-glare film sold by Pinball Life would work so ordered a sheet up for my Metallica.
it turns out this inexpensive film is a perfect match for use with the colorLED display. It seems to knock the glare off the lighter blue colors in the display, providing a more consistant appearance and "dot size" for the different colors in the LED. Using the film I simply increased the brightness of the LED to compensate for the darkening effect and am thrilled with the picture quality and consistency provided by this combination.
The only downside vs. bent plastic is that that there can be glare from PF lighting on the display. On Metallica, the 2 spotlights over the slings reflect on the lower part of the display with the filter on. It is not terrible but is noticeable.
So anti-glare film provides a higher overall PQ on colorLED by removing glare or "overbrightness" from lighter blues, which bent plastic does not. But bent plastic blocks pf glare on the screen, which the anti-glare film only partially obscurs.
I'll be keeping the anti-glare film on my Metalica and highly recommend it for all colorLED installations. If PF glare on the display is an issue on your game, you can always still use the bent-plastic in addition to the anti-glare film.
(EDIT: Zoom the pictures to see a more realistic view, the resized pics in the main thread view munge the actual dot effects a bit).

and your blacks are blacker I'll bet too.

#504 1 year ago
Quoted from gunstarhero:

You can call it nostalgia I suppose, but brighter colors, better fit and lower cost are all great reasons to go LED. You don't have to HATE one and LOVE the other tho, they're both great. I have both. I love them both. It's just a matter of application. If you gotta have smoothing modes, you gotta go LCD. If you don't bother with that and just like dots, save a little cash and go LED. If you have a Stern or a backbox feature that LCD will require a mod or a compromise that you don't feel like making, go LED. It's all up to you. To me the LCD HIRES just looks too blobby when you get rid of dots so I end up running in a dots emulation mode anyways, and why bother in that case? So I get a true DMD and call it good.

As I said if it won't fit, go LED. As for saving cash, the difference is like 30-40 dollars on a 300 plus purchase and I'm really cheap according to the wife but thats not even worth considering based on savings. If it was 70 dollars cheaper or something I'd say maybe that was worth considering.

#505 1 year ago

Most of my dislikes with the LED display (everything but the ramping, you can't help that) would be fixed by a thin diffuser panel in front of the display to blend/spread the colors. If a sheet of little circle diffusers could be made that goes in front that unifies the size of the 'dots' regardless of brightness and blends the colors better so you don't see the separation, that'd be pretty freakin' sweet.

#506 1 year ago
Quoted from Robl45:

As I said if it won't fit, go LED. As for saving cash, the difference is like 30-40 dollars on a 300 plus purchase and I'm really cheap according to the wife but thats not even worth considering based on savings. If it was 70 dollars cheaper or something I'd say maybe that was worth considering.

Hey man, $40 is $40!

That's more parts, yo!

#507 1 year ago

I have LCD in all mine, i had one with an led, i loved it at first... but LCD is the way to go. So much more configurable, better color distribution, and not overly bright (I play in a dark room).. BUT you cant go wrong with either IMO

#508 1 year ago

I find its basically a toss up, if I go LED I use a glare guard so the cost works out about the same. I do like the brightness of the LED and I never use the additional modes. So I guess I would go LED unless the specific machine looked extra special with the additional modes LCD provides. Maybe the Simpsons or something like that would warrant the LCD.

#509 1 year ago

I have LED on all my machines, never liked the upscaling, hi-res options, not the form factor and the grey look of the blacks. The LED just pops, yes I use anti glare filters on all, no money is not the issue. Just my preference.

-7
#510 1 year ago

I think the led suits more as a cheap replacement (pinball sp led display) for the Original gas display.
In one or 4 colors at the same time.

#511 1 year ago

I'd choose LED even if it were the more expensive option. There is an artistic style to a DMD, but when it's "upscaled" it looks more like a poorly drawn cartoon.

#512 1 year ago
Quoted from lpeters82:

There is an artistic style to a DMD, but when it's "upscaled" it looks more like a poorly drawn cartoon.

I agree with you on that point, but I still like the DotsXL option of the LCD where you can make the dots just a little bit bigger than normal, and that's what I like using on all my games. I do have an LED in CV though, as that's all that will fit in there, and it's not a bad option at all, the colors really POP. I always say any ColorDMD, whether LCD (my preference) or LED, is better than an old school orange DMD.

#513 1 year ago

I finally got to see the LED. Looked fantastic!

I’d probably pick LED. Nice and bright, not too bright. Color separation wasn’t a problem. Just looked great.

Btw, LCD is nice too.

#514 1 year ago

Saw a whole bunch of machines with ColorDMD LEDs yesterday and personally would go LCD where a choice is available. Much better color clarity and quality on the LCD.

#515 1 year ago
Quoted from ScottyC:

Saw a whole bunch of machines with ColorDMD LEDs yesterday and personally would go LCD where a choice is available. Much better color clarity and quality on the LCD.

That's surprising to me because I think color gamut support is where the LCD really falls short, especially reds.

#516 1 year ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

That's surprising to me because I think color gamut support is where the LCD really falls short, especially reds.

To me the LED is too strong in a lot of colors and too weak in other. Some of the artwork on MET is washed out. I have tried all kinds of combinations of settings and it ranges from terrible to just barely acceptable. None of them look nearly as good as an LCD in Dot or DotXL.

For those who seem to like the LED, what are your settings? Brightness? Contrast? RGB or RBG?

#517 1 year ago

The RGB/RBG setting is just a matter of how the panels are wired. The mfg changed at some point so Randy added a toggle to support both types.

#518 1 year ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

The RGB/RBG setting is just a matter of how the panels are wired. The mfg changed at some point so Randy added a toggle to support both types.

OK, so how do I know which way to set it?

#519 1 year ago
Quoted from John_I:

To me the LED is too strong in a lot of colors and too weak in other. Some of the artwork on MET is washed out. I have tried all kinds of combinations of settings and it ranges from terrible to just barely acceptable. None of them look nearly as good as an LCD in Dot or DotXL.
For those who seem to like the LED, what are your settings? Brightness? Contrast? RGB or RBG?

Some games definitely look better with one versus the other IMO. Games that are heavy on reds (Spider-man is a great example) look worse with LCD to me because the red looks pink, it's still awesome but the red on the LED is actually red instead of pinkish. Now if you prefer the DotsXL or smoothing modes then forget it, there's only one choice.

#520 1 year ago
Quoted from John_I:

OK, so how do I know which way to set it?

The colors would look way off if the green and blue were backwards, compared to say the preview video of the game. It would hopefully be pretty apparent.

#521 1 year ago

It does look better on RGB, but it still doesn't look right.

Unfortunately Comet is out of the glare guards at this point or I would try that. That was another thing I liked about the LCD displays that I had is they don't need glare guards. Anyone near by in Central Florida want to make a trade?

#522 1 year ago

I believe that CDMD is going to discontinue LCD sales when their current inventory runs out...

Correct?

I think I heard the owner say that on a podcast.

#523 1 year ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

I believe that CDMD is going to discontinue LCD sales when their current inventory runs out...
Correct?
I think I heard the owner say that on a podcast.

I sure hope not! Maybe they have a new version of the LCD coming out that is sized to fit more like the LED version?

#524 1 year ago
Quoted from John_I:

OK, so how do I know which way to set it?

The menus should be orange when set correctly (instead of magenta).

#525 1 year ago

Imo some titles like Simpson's better of with cartoonlike dmd style , but i realy like some others with normal colored dots style

#526 1 year ago
Quoted from Dmod:

The menus should be orange when set correctly (instead of magenta).

Thanks, and yes, I had it correct on at least this last go around. My friends and I have switched this thing around a dozen times and played with the brightness and contrast in all combinations and can't get happy compared to the LCD version.

Quoted from 27dnast:

I believe that CDMD is going to discontinue LCD sales when their current inventory runs out...

Correct?

I think I heard the owner say that on a podcast.

I wish I knew more about the new product that might be coming out because I am tempted to buy an LCD to replace this one.

#527 1 year ago

LCD all the way. LCD in T2 and MB and LED in JP. Greatly prefer the upscaling and options the LCD offers. my $0.02

Will probably sell/trade the LED for an LCD for JP and go ahead and mod my panel to make it fit.

#528 1 year ago
Quoted from John_I:

Thanks, and yes, I had it correct on at least this last go around. My friends and I have switched this thing around a dozen times and played with the brightness and contrast in all combinations and can't get happy compared to the LCD version.

Brightness doesn't affect the rendering or picture quality.

Contrast applies a different nonlinear mapping to the brightness levels. Lower contrast settings give better darks (closer to black). Higher contrast gives more contrast relative to black (OFF) but compresses the levels toward maximum brightness.

2 weeks later
#529 1 year ago

Hello All,

I'm debating on a LCD or LED for Star Trek. I can't seem to find a good video of Star Trek with the LCD upscaling in full color. Although both LED and LCD look great with the dots, Star Trek being a LED if LED is a better fit and I am curious if the LCD will look flat and if the upscalling will look blobbly. Some games look great with the upscaling (LOTR for example) and some much better with dots (Family Guy). Thanks for any input.

#530 1 year ago

I went with the LED on my Star Trek because I like the dot look and the stock-ish fit, but if you think you might want the HIRES smoothing get the LCD so you at least get the option. You won’t be unhappy either way, although I’d like to see an update to fix some of the uncolored screens.

#531 1 year ago
Quoted from jsandjs:

Hello All,
I'm debating on a LCD or LED for Star Trek. I can't seem to find a good video of Star Trek with the LCD upscaling in full color. Although both LED and LCD look great with the dots, Star Trek being a LED if LED is a better fit and I am curious if the LCD will look flat and if the upscalling will look blobbly. Some games look great with the upscaling (LOTR for example) and some much better with dots (Family Guy). Thanks for any input.

LCD with DOTXL, done! HI-RES looks ok at first but then you will more than likely set it to DOTXL.

#532 1 year ago
Quoted from camcamaro1991:

LCD with DOTXL, done! HI-RES looks ok at first but then you will more than likely set it to DOTXL.

This is my feeling. I did just get the Comet glare guard for my Metallica and the LED looks much better now. It still doesn't look as good as the LCD with DotXL IMO, but it looks good.

#533 1 year ago

Thanks for the input guys. I decided to try a LED, I'm really a stock kind of guy and thought the LED on the playfield would lend better to a LED display and figured If I don't like it I can always move it to another game and go LCD. I agree the hi res will get kind of dodgy over time.

1 week later
#534 1 year ago
Quoted from jsandjs:

Thanks for the input guys. I decided to try a LED, I'm really a stock kind of guy and thought the LED on the playfield would lend better to a LED display and figured If I don't like it I can always move it to another game and go LCD. I agree the hi res will get kind of dodgy over time.

Great choice!

Pair this with it:

http://www.cometpinball.com/category-s/1892.htm

I mounted mine on the inside of the panel (Installed in a Stern SM). It looks great and removes the perfect amount of harshness from the LED display!

#535 1 year ago

I started with an LCD in my GNR machine, because I was impatient and the LEDs were out of stock when I ordered. I bought an LCD for my Metallica and love it. My friend installed the LED in his JP and it was amazing. So, I bought an LED for the GNR, and put that LCD into my Avengers. So, from a style standpoint, the LCD animation effects look great on the newer ones. The LED looks great on the older ones.

I just picked up an Apollo 13, and I am not sure which to pick up. I am leaning LED to get a period correct look, but the tile setting on the LCD looks awesome in their video.

3 months later
#536 1 year ago

I need to replace the old orange DMD in my Williams Dirty Harry as it's failing so I thought I may as well just get a colordmd seeing Dirty Harry is now supported. Should I go LCD or LED for Dirty Harry??

#537 1 year ago
Quoted from Johno75:

Should I go LCD or LED for Dirty Harry??

Flip a coin and decide; same thing as people's opinion. I had a Dirty Harry with LCD and it was awesome, a massive improvement, but I'm an LCD guy.

#538 1 year ago
Quoted from raz0red:

I know it all comes down to personal preference, but has anyone installed an LED version in a LOTR? I will be purchasing my first ColorDMD and really have no idea which way to go. I am leaning towards an LED just to be more like the original DMD and to have it match the bright LEDs in the playfield, but haven't seen one in person. Any issues with ghosting on LOTR?

I'm a little late, but to me the LED looks awful in LOTR. I bought one, totally regret it, wish I had LCD. It's the color scheme I think, it just doesn't look right on LED.

#539 1 year ago
Quoted from taylor34:

I'm a little late, but to me the LED looks awful in LOTR. I bought one, totally regret it, wish I had LCD. It's the color scheme I think, it just doesn't look right on LED.

Funny, i have an LCD in my LotR now and want an LED back. Had an LED in it before swapping it with the LCD in my WH20. LED looks best in both though, imo

#540 1 year ago
Quoted from taylor34:

I'm a little late, but to me the LED looks awful in LOTR. I bought one, totally regret it, wish I had LCD. It's the color scheme I think, it just doesn't look right on LED.

I didn't like mine until I put on the Comet glare guard and did a bunch of messing with the settings.

#541 1 year ago
Quoted from John_I:

I didn't like mine until I put on the Comet glare guard and did a bunch of messing with the settings.

Agree, get the glareguard and get the settings right. Brightness all full, contrast you can play a bit to you see what details you will get. I am an led guy all the way. Love them, do not like the lcd, form factor, grey areas and other formats do not do it for me. Dots all the way. Do not take it too personal if you disagree

#542 1 year ago

Anybody have one in a J*B yet? I usually prefer lcd over led, but this one might look better with the latter.

I'm probably swaying towards lcd, but have yet to see either installed in an actual machine in person.

Choices! I love 'em!

#543 1 year ago

why are the LED's $30 cheaper than the LCD's?

#544 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Flip a coin and decide; same thing as people's opinion. I had a Dirty Harry with LCD and it was awesome, a massive improvement, but I'm an LCD guy.

Quoted from TheLaw:

Flip a coin and decide

I can't afford to flip a coin and decide unfortunately. I need to get it right first time due to limited funds!

#545 1 year ago
Quoted from Johno75:

why are the LED's $30 cheaper than the LCD's?

I think that's simply due to the LED being less expensive (cheaper) to produce. I prefer the looks and optional display modes offered by the LCD. I have an LED in my CV as there are no other choices due to the oddball screen size required. The colors in the LED are more vibrant and really "POP", but it simply looks a little harsher to my eyes. That being said, I'd rather have an LED ColorDMD than no ColorDMD at all. So, despite my favoring the LCD, I could live with an LED.

#546 1 year ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

I think that's simply due to the LED being less expensive (cheaper) to produce. I prefer the looks and optional display modes offered by the LCD. I have an LED in my CV as there are no other choices due to the oddball screen size required. The colors in the LED are more vibrant and really "POP", but it simply looks a little harsher to my eyes. That being said, I'd rather have an LED ColorDMD than no ColorDMD at all. So, despite my favoring the LCD, I could live with an LED.

This filter:

Quoted from metahugh:

Great choice!
Pair this with it:
http://www.cometpinball.com/category-s/1892.htm
I mounted mine on the inside of the panel (Installed in a Stern SM). It looks great and removes the perfect amount of harshness from the LED display!

makes a world of difference!

#547 1 year ago
Quoted from metahugh:

This filter:

makes a world of difference!

Thanks. I'll check that out.

#548 1 year ago

LCD smoothing options remind me of someone scaling up a low-res jpeg in Photoshop. One of the operators around here loves that mode, but give me dots any day of the week. LED color displays look phenomenal though. Love them!

#549 1 year ago

I prefer LCD displays, "Scan" mode specifically. However games with movie clips like Iron Man Transformers excetera I think look much better with DotsXL

3 weeks later
#550 1 year ago

I have a TAF with L-5 cpu rom. Will the color dmd work with that rom. ColorDMD’s website says L-7 is required.

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