This thread is for ColorDMD vs Mike PMD's SmartDMD.

It seems like it's time for this thread. Both companies are shipping a colorized ACDC at basically the same time, we have a true head to head product battle here, and I'm seeing that people have questions about the differences between the two products.

It doesn't seem fair to either company to try and field those questions inside their own announcement threads, let them promote their products without having to talk about the other guy.

So I figured let's start a neutral ground thread they're not involved in to try and help answer questions. My request would be that if Mike and Randy and Chris want to talk in here that's great, but try and just keep it to answering questions about your own product, then it's less contentious feeling.

If you have experience coloring for either platform feel free to chime in.

I'll start a couple posts after this that I'll reserve for editing so that as questions come up I can bubble good answers up to the top so you don't have to dig for them.

I would also welcome people posting any content like screencaps or videos or anything that I miss. I know that Mike for instance has been putting up teaser images for a while, so if you find things that would be helpful for comparisons please put them in the thread.

DISCLAIMER: I play in league with the ColorDMD guys, I know them, they're friends of mine. I do not work for them, I don't get any kind of kickback on sales or anything. I think I have a rep for being fair and honest, and I'll try to keep it so in this thread, but I just wanted to disclose that up front.

Okay, to start let's go with the videos that both companies have uploaded for ACDC.

SmartDMD:

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ColorDMD:

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Here's a GIF of both of them running roughly the same image in upscaled mode, with the white and black points color corrected to match. Maybe not *perfect* but should be close (looks like there are some JPEG artifacts in there, sorry), and you can get an idea of how they're both approaching coloring things:

smart-vs-color-girls.gif

Visual can go in above post, this one will be reserved for specs. I'll start with things I know or see posted, and if anyone has corrections or suggestions to add to it I'll edit. I'll always put SmartDMD first, since I know the ColorDMD guys that seems fair.

SmartDMD

UPDATED: 4/17/15

Cost: $199, includes licensed copy of Pinball Browser, but doesn't include LCD screen or driver board, which you must source yourself. If people can give me average prices I'll update.

Additional games: $50 gets you the coloring for a new game, if you want to switch your screen to a different pin. UPDATE: Some games will be offered for free, unlocked. Some will not be free, price to be determined by person who made it I guess.

Color palette for SAM games: 16 colors per frame

Customization: If you want to customize things you need to run Pinball Browser. This is Windows only, if you have a Mac you'll need a solution for running Windows software. You can choose from several dot and upscaling styles: for dots you can customize their shape, circles, diamonds, smiley faces (Mike's example!). SmartDMD offers 3 different types of Upscaling (2x, 16x, and Anti-aliasing). You can mix them by palette, so dots for some palettes, upscaling for others.

SmartDMD lets you change color palettes. You can't change the way the dots are colored yourself, but you could decide that you want to make all shades of a certain red a shade of green instead. (Edit: It seems this is changing, and you can edit the dots after all. Stay tuned.) (Edit2: You can edit the dots on "unlocked" games, but still can't if someone chooses to not give it away for free, and keeps it locked.)

There are some kind of plans for integrating various products together, it's not clear right now what that means, so just know there's something coming.

Installation: Take out DMD and put in new panel. Complete 35 page manual here. Download the ROM from Stern's site. Run a program to patch the ROM with the file included with the display. Sounds like there is a way to do this on a Mac if you don't have Windows. Update ROM on game.

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ColorDMD

Cost: $399

Additional games: Free, you can download any of the other colorized games (17 as of now) to move your display at any time.

Color palette for SAM games: 193 colors per frame (16 base colors x existing shading data)

Customization: You can choose from several dot and upscaling styles: dots, 8bit style pixels with or without grid, upscaling, or upscaling with scan lines

Installation: Take out DMD and put in new panel. Put ColorDMD rom on USB stick (Mac or PC) and plug into display. Update it and you're done.

I just edited my second reserved spot with some specs. I just went with what I could think of, if people have more ideas or corrections post them here and I can update if they make sense.

Their upscaling does look different, I'll try and post comparisons if I can find them.

Unfortunately they're not both running the same dot mode, so it's hard to directly compare. Both can use traditional dots, or various styles of upscaling. I'll try and get more shots of both in.

Remember, no matter which one you like better, they're both working with the same source image, and it's only 128x32 pixels. That's small! This is what a 128x32 box looks like:

128x32

So it's amazing that they both are able to do cool things with that.

Good point, added per frame. I don't think that SmartDMD has unlimited palettes though. If that's confirmed I can adjust details there.

I did note that the dots can be changed for SmartDMD, they can look like anything you want. Realistically I doubt anyone wants more than just dots or squares though.

Here's a GIF I made. Happy to do another if I can get two frames that are the same from each product.

SmartDMD vs ColorDMD

Right, just so it's clear, this why SmartDMD is 16 colors, and ColorDMD is 193 colors. It's all about using the existing shading from the DMD data to add more details to the colorization. That's kind of confusing I think.

Heh, see my post above. Any suggestions for how I would phrase that? I mean it is 193 colors, but it's a fixed palette with programatic shading added to it.

I edited to try and make it clear in a simple way.

Yes, you can with Pinball Browser if you're just doing it yourself. But I *believe* if you buy the pre-colored dots from Mike you cannot edit them yourself then. Just change the palettes. If I'm wrong someone correct me and point me to a source and I'll fix.

Understood that Pinball Browser works that way. My understanding though is that what Mike is distributing is "locked down" in some fashion, and you cannot just open it up and edit.

I could be wrong! Someone please correct me if so, with a citation please.

But it makes sense. Why would people pay for the colored files if they could buy the bare display and just pass them around? Some kind of DRM might be in place.

Derp. If I can get two frames that are the same that are better to compare I can make a new GIF. Just working with what images I'm finding, I have no access to either product right now.

If anyone from SmartDMD wants to post different images please do so, I'm only working with what I have available. The two videos I posted are both the "official" videos posted by both companies, and all the SmartDMD images are from Mike also I believe. So it's the best I can do.

Okay, I made a new GIF based on what Justin posted. I "cheated" a little and color corrected the SmartDMD, I made the white point pure white, and the background pure black. So there can't be "washing out" or anything. It might not reflect the real look 100%, but best I can do to get the two images close to each other.

smart-vs-color-girls.gif

Updated the install and customization section for SmartDMD after some suggestions for how to make it more fair sounding.

I can only work with what assets are provided. That SmartDMD image is one that was posted by Mike, so it's "official" but beyond that I couldn't say. Like I said, I corrected it so that the blacks were black and whites were white to try and keep it as even with the ColorDMD image as I could, but that's the best I can do with it. It looks like they chose lighter colors than ColorDMD, and super pale skin for the girls, so it might not be washed out, just colored differently.

Sure, but that's what is for sale. If you want to buy ACDC for your game you have a choice between two products, and how they're colorized is part of the choice.

We can revisit this again later when there are more games from SmartDMD out, especially another title that's the same like Metallica which they're both working on. It's not like you have to make a choice for life.

Facts are great! That was the real purpose of this thread, to try and get them all in one place so people could understand the differences and not feel bad asking questions about a competitor in someone's promotional thread.

But as was noted, one of the differences is the choices made during colorization. Just because a scene on ColorDMD has up to 193 colors, and one on SmartDMD has 16 doesn't always mean the bigger number wins, it's how the color choices are made that's going to count too.

Just look at that car scene GIF, the colors are different, but also how the bush and the ground are treated is totally different also. That's gonna be subjective, and I think it's okay to prefer one over the other. "I like the ground being brown on ColorDMD" is an opinion.

No need to suppress that. If there are good facts people want me to add to the opening posts I'll edit them, that way nothing gets lost in the noise.

Sure, if you think about it Mike is already that "third party", he's just organized it into something a bit more formal. I think the catch is if you're selling things you might have to work out if you want DRM on your work or not. I think Mike's colors are software protected on some level, so you can't just pass them around. If you just released a color macro anyone could share it, as far as I know at least.

I'm getting it from Mike's threads. He's said you can change the color palettes, so decided you want Sparky to be green instead of flesh tone by using Pinball Browser to pick the flesh tone swatch and changing it to green. But you can't edit the dots to change how they were colored. So for instance in the GIF above if you wanted brown ground and green bush on SmartDMD you couldn't do that, you could only make all the green brown.

If I've misunderstood I'm happy to correct that, it's hard to get Mike to give a straight answer to some of this stuff, but he's understandably still working it all out. Like how he originally said it would only work on free play, but then decided that wasn't necessary and change it to be okay for coin op also.

Right. What you're doing is taking the 4 shades (and I'm not 100% sure if you can change black, might be 3 shades + black) of greyscale, which is of course shown as black and three shades of orange on the DMD, and assign a color to each shade.

So the light shade could be light blue, and the medium shade dark blue, and the dark shade an eggplant purple. And those colors would be used for the whole game, wherever it was light, medium, and dark before.

If people want to discuss that it's all good with me! But I'm not going to add it to the facts section, because it's really a different thing. I'm focusing on games that are hand colored. ACDC is about to come out for both, but Mike has said he wants to do every SAM game, and ColorDMD has already announced more SAM games, so that's where the head to head comparison comes in,

This is simple. The ColorDMD video was shown with just dots. So there's a lot of black space on the screen, and it looks dimmer. The SmartDMD video showed off all the different modes, and most of them fill in more, so there's less black. So it looks brighter.

That said, if you look at the SmartDMD dots, they're fatter than the ColorDMD dots. It's like the jump from plasma to LED DMDs, the dots got bigger. So I do think the SmartDMD dots feel a little brighter. IMHO now that ColorDMD is doing SAM games they should add a fatter dot mode, to match the feel of LED DMDs. That's easy, just like they did 8-bit and tile modes in the last update.

They both use LCD screens that are probably roughly the same, I don't think either one is actually brighter from a physical hardware standpoint.

I don't mind opinions, and people "choosing sides" etc, but I'm not trying to pick a winner here. Just provide a place where we can talk about the differences in a civil way, and not hijack either manufacturers threads.

And competition is good! Mike is stepping up, I saw that his car scene no longer has just solid green ground with the bush, he added dirt. That's what happens when companies push each other, we all win.

Doesn't always happen in pinball. JJP came on the scene and all they did was show Stern that people will pay more for games, and they raised prices!

I was specifically told that the girls have white panties.

I'll clarify that.

That makes sense, but if you own an ACDC and are eager to get color on it (and who wouldn't be?!) then you're ready to buy right now. And I think a lot of people are struggling to grasp the differences so they can make a choice.

You don't have to commit to one product for life or anything. But you might want an ACDC upgrade ASAP.

I'm sure we'll get personal reviews once they both ship too, which will help.

They're exactly the same really when it comes to that. They're both laptop-style LCD panels, mounted in the game, showing pixels. Neither one is using some crazy technology to create an image, they're standard panels. They both have different display modes, you can pick which looks best to you and you're done.

They might even end up sourcing from the same place, who knows, there are only so many manufacturers of these LCD screens out there with the right specs.

I edited the thread title to say PMD SmartDMD, since I guess SmartDMD is already a totally different product idea. Too confusing. And I guess you can buy a SmartDMD from Mike, but then not use his color files. I dunno, this is supposed to be about off the shelf color for ACDC, and further games in the future that are SAM, and that's it, hopefully that's clear. Because now I have a headache.

ACDC is going to be even better looking! They have more to work with on these modern SAM games. And wait until you see Metallica, it's going to be so effing killer ... It might be the best dots on any game, from any era, and they're going to just be awesome in full color.

To be clear, you cannot edit the way things are colored on the PMD SmartDMD, you can only change the colors someone else added to the dots.

So you can shift red to blue, but you can't go in and change the way one particular dot is colored without changing the rest. In other words you can edit palettes, but not frames.

Sure, if you dig that then go for it. I just feel like people are confused a bit about what you can and can't edit. Mike is (understandably) locking his product down, it's not freely editable like if you just fired up Pinball Browser and started coloring yourself.

Since it's not a secret that ColorDMD is doing Metallica I can say that it's far along, and looking awesome, I've seen sneak peeks. This is one title where I'm not trying to remain unbiased, I'm definitely getting the ColorDMD version. The same artist who did the reference frames for IJ is doing Metallica (I play in league with him, he's a digital artist with a game company, does great work) and he's putting a ton of detail into the art and really has a great eye for color and shading etc.

More than just the technology there's the choices the artist makes during coloring, and Metallica's super detailed dots have me drooling for what he's done.

SmartDMD is definitely a little less expensive, and has more customization options.

It's not brighter, it's not higher contrast, and since they have less colors (16 vs 193) and drop the shading from frames it's definitely not more detailed.

I think you're hitting the key points actually. If I was to try and summarize the two products strengths:

PMD SmartDMD - Cheaper, more customizable

ColorDMD - More colors and detail, more plug and play

That's what I would personally look at when making a choice, which of those two is more appealing to you.

???

They both have ACDC, it's the obvious (and only) way to directly compare them right now. This is about Mike's PMD SmartDMD and ColorDMD. Yes, SmartDMD is a different product also, but that's a different topic for more DIY people. Not my fault the branding is confusing.

Mike has already announced several games, and indicated he wants to do a lot more. I think he said his plan is to do all SAM games.

ColorDMD has pre-announced several titles too. Metallica, Tron, and Twilight Zone at least.

Thing is, these colorizations take time. You can run into obstacles. Some games are done by volunteers, with day jobs, just volunteering their time. It's hard to target dates.

It's no really reasonable to expect more than what we are getting. Both companies are happy to accept your volunteer time if you want to colorize a game yourself.

What disinformation? Please point it out so we can make sure it's addressed. That's the whole point of this thread.

You're obviously unhappy. It's not my fault the SmartDMD branding is confusing. Take that up with Mike D. I understand it's also a product for DIY people to use, and can be used with non-SAM games to do things like palette swapping. That's not what this thread is about. I've made that as clear as I can, given the confusing naming. The thread title now says "PMD SmartDMD", and I added a disclaimer to clarify to the very first line of the thread.

Frankly the markets for plug and play color solutions and DIY people don't overlap much. But if there's information that needs to be clearer please just post corrections instead of complaining that I'm doing harm, because your whining doesn't contribute anything positive.

I posted my "bias" clearly, and I'm trying to stick to facts and not posting my own opinions as best I can. I'm only human, so I don't pretend to be perfect. I think there are positives to both, the customization stuff that Mike is offering is cool. If you put me on the spot then yes, I'd take the larger color palette ColorDMD offers over that, because as a visual artist I really appreciate the extra detail. But as an artist being able to swap colors does have some appeal too.

As I said before, for Metallica ColorDMD is already my winner, the artist helping Chris with the dots is a proven commodity, his work on IJ sold me when I heard he was doing it. Metallica has probably my all time favorite dots, seeing them with as much detail as possible is definitely my priority. But other people can read the facts and differences and decide what appeals to their own priorities, they don't have to match mine.

I thought I saw Mike say his artists would get paid by a % of sales too, plus a dev kit. I don't know the details though. ColorDMD does pay their colorists for their time. You sign a contract, get access to their tools and private forum, and are paid.

The truth is coloring takes a LOT of time. It's long work, and requires dedication and patience. It's why I haven't colored The Shadow myself. I just don't have the time, I'd have to give up all my other mod projects, and I'm not willing to do that, they're too important to me.

Absolutely. That's why it's really not just about technical stuff, because someone is making decisions and you have to like what they do. I have seen a couple peeks at Metallica, but I'm in the dark for most of it. But seeing the job Josh did on IJ gives me confidence, he's a professional and has a great eye. So I don't think I'm going to feel "stuck". But you're so right, it's going to be about what you feel.

See, this is why I'm trying to do this thread, there's a lot of confusion out there. With PMD SmartDMD anyone *CANNOT* edit it. To be 100% clear I mean the commercial product that Mike is selling. If you buy his colored ACDC you cannot change the dots and frames. You can change the palettes, if you want to make all the reds in a frame blue you can. But you can't change the dots. You can't go in and add details. You can't take two blue things, and make one red and keep the other blue. All the colors change at once.

This is what's confusing, there's a difference between generic SmartDMD, and PDM SmartDMD's commercial pre-colored files that you buy.

All I can compare is what's out there. Mike released an official video, with logos etc in the beginning. So that's what I used. If he wants to shoot a new one I'll happily update the thread. ColorDMD's video is shot with a camera too by the way, not some kind of direct capture.

I told Mike if he could give me a new frame with the girls getting out of the car with the dirt he added I'd update my GIF to make it as fair as possible. He seems to ignore my posts for some reason. Maybe he thinks I'm an agent of the enemy. But I did offer!

Whatever my personal opinions might be I'm doing my best to present nothing but facts, and the most even comparisons I can. If someone has a better video or screencap please let me know, I'm working with whatever I have access to.

At the end of the day there's gonna be camps. People have friends and loyalties. And that's fine. But if you're on the sidelines I'm just trying to make spot where we can compare things without pissing on either manufacturer's threads. Let them promote their product cleanly, and we can bring the comparisons and argument (if people really want) here.

I should add that I don't own ACDC, so I don't really have a horse in the race, I'm not buying either. If Metallica was the first product I maybe would have skipped making this thread, because I won't try and hide my preference there, I'm super excited about that particular release.

I'd be careful with that stuff. I only say that because it may draw negative attention from Stern. Since Pinball Browser is modifying the ROM they might have some legal recourses that they wouldn't otherwise deploy except if they're getting complaints about nudity and drugs since people won't know it's not on Stern but private individuals.

The 16 colors is at least for now a software limitation from Pinball Browser. Now to be clear, ColorDMD uses 16 base colors also, but they don't throw out the shading data, meaning they can manipulate the 16 colors using the brightness levels of the original monochrome dots. That's why it's not quite as simple as 16 colors vs 193 colors, ColorDMD can't just grab any color of the rainbow repeatedly, but in practice they do have the ability to show that many distinct colors at once.

So by default SmartDMD, any flavor, Mike's or not, is more "flat", no matter who's doing the color, and ColorDMD has more detail from the shading.

If you're coloring by hand with the SmartDMD and can spare the colors you can add shading yourself by hand, but every shade you use takes up a slot in your 16 color palette.

I work for Ars Technica, I'm super familiar with that stance. This isn't exactly a FOSS situation, the software in question requires a license and isn't open source, and if you buy Mike's color file it's not freely editable either.

But there certainly could potentially be a movement of people who are eschewing DRM and distributing their color changes free of charge with no restrictions. Mike's SmartDMD hardware package without colors could be used with that, and the hardware itself is pretty much open in the sense that he's just assembling all the parts you could get yourself for you as a convenience.

But as least for now, open hardware or not, you are tied to proprietary software in one sense or another.

Right, exactly. Maybe we just need a clearer language for all this, I understand the DIY aspect isn't being covered by this thread.

I'm trying to set up something where Joe Pinball says "hey, I own an ACDC, and I want to just buy a package that makes it in color, but I don't know which one is right for me". Hey Joe, here's the difference between the two, make up your own mind based on these basic facts.

If you want to be hardcore and color a game yourself from scratch? Man, knock yourself out! It's just a shit ton of work, so I think it's going to be a very small group of people who want to attempt that outside of Mike or ColorDMD support/payment/etc.

And threads to support that already exist, and have been going on for quite a while now. Purple and yellow Stargate and red and yellow Jurassic Park for example were done, what? A year or two ago by now at least?

This definitely isn't aimed at DIYers, just pre-colored buyers.

Yes, displays are universal, but mounting and wiring are different. Easy enough to do though.

Right on Mike. I've started to update my opening post, as things become more clear I can make more edits. For now I've just added a note in the section about editing dots.

Obviously ACDC LE is the same as Premium, so no problem there. Can you not use the file for the Pro? The games have slightly different software to support the different playfield features, so will your patch not work on the Pro?

I guess the same thing applies to Metallica and Avengers too. You're saying Metallica Pro, can LE/Premium users not use it? None of this occurred to me when I was setting up the feature comparison. ColorDMD doesn't patch the ROM so it doesn't matter which version you have, guess I just was used to that.

Tell you what, I'm grateful to everyone who's put in the time. I really wanted to color The Shadow, but I realized that I just plain can't commit to that kind of work, and that I'd just have to be content with waiting for someone else to do it.

I don't feel guilty about that, I think I've contributed to The Shadow enough already, but it's definitely a labor of love. And if you want to do it for SmartDMD it's your time, so make your own call. I definitely see the appeal of the open source tinkering kind of thing.

Personally though I prefer to just direct my time and energy at my own passions. Rather have a kick ass colorization job from someone, and spend my time working on my own mods that I can offer up. I spend just as much time on them, but it's personally satisfying, so it doesn't really feel like work.

This thread may not be quite as useful in the same way now, the two products are diverging more it seems like, but if I helped that along then I feel like it served a purpose.

Maybe put it like this:

ColorDMD can be for "off the shelf" buyers, and SmartDMD can be for "DIY tinkerers".

Does that sound like a fair way to sum it up in a nutshell?

Sounds fair to me Mike.

Pretty sure it won't matter at all, the latest code was just a few subtle scoring tweaks, I don't think they changed any animations.

It's hard to tell with the smoothing and jpeg artifacts, but I was curious, so I tried to count. This might be slightly off due to some guessing, but I'm undercounting if anything.

1. White
2. Black
3. Light Green
4. Dark Green
5. Dark Brown
6. Light Brown
7. Extra Light Grey
8. Light Grey
9. Medium Grey
10. Dark Grey
11. Light Blonde
12. Dark Blonde
13. Light Purple
14. Dark Purple
15. Light Red
16. Medium Red
17. Dark Red
18. Dark Skin Tone
19. Medium Skin Tone
20. Light Skin Tone

I think there are actually a few more shades in there as part of gradients and transitions, but it's hard to tell, so I left them out. Like I think there are more reds and skin tones.

This also doesn't count anything else from this scene, like there are more girls that have different outfits, you have to account for any variations there as part of the scene palette.

So even if we leave out the more subtle stuff, you'd have to drop 4 colors to fit that into SmartDMD.

Not being critical, after all the original dots are 16 shades too, but it is an interesting exercise to count the colors and then think about how you would drop some to make things fit.

I assume too that you have to make all the shading decisions yourself, since the Pinball Browser interface flattens the colors right? You don't get the shading "for free" with what the artist already did. Someone correct me if I'm wrong and you can see the dot intensity information in the Pinball Browser interface.

Maybe that's something that could be changed in software down the road, I don't know.

Anyways, that's why I said ColorDMD seemed more like an off the shelf product, since it has the more colors and details, and SmartDMD seemed more like for people who like to tinker and tweak. But SmartDMD is cheaper, and it may appeal to people who like more "open" projects, so I'm just trying to summarize, not express the nuances of everyone's decisions.

Seeing lots of positive ColorDMD comments, and crickets from PMD owners. Did the SmartDMD version not happen as planned or something? It was supposed to be yesterday right?

Anyone order one? Want to hear first hand impressions!

DotsXL is definitely my jam, love the look. Thanks for doing another video, it's great to see things that aren't from the companies, makes them more "authentic".

Whatever, doesn't bug me. Mike just hasn't bumped his thread, there's been no talk of things shipping, no one is talking about it, just seemed kinda weird. Did something happen?

Crickets seemed like the right word. Frontier up in here for SmartDMD!

If anyone ordered one can you tell us if they're shipping?

What the F? What am I tearing down? Mike said it was out last week, and I'm asking people to post their experiences.

Did you order one?

Has anyone ordered one? I just want to know what's going on, we haven't seen a single report. Are they at least shipping?

In case you missed it this is the ColorDMD vs SmartDMD thread, where we're comparing things. I'm just hoping to see some more actual comparisons directly from end users.

You're the one who's stirring the pot, there's no controversy here.

Yes! I mean, if Mike had said "hey, sorry, shipping a little late, hang in there everyone" I would just wait. But since he hasn't I said crickets. Is that the offensive part? Crickets?

If at TPF or something we could get two games side by side, and I dunno, film two games starting at the same time on the same song or something, that would be rad.

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(edit: this part below is a general response to the thread, not the quote above, sorry for confusion)

No one else seemed to want to start this thread, so I did it. I've done my best to state my personal conflicts of interest up front, and haven't really posted my own opinion that much. I do have my own thoughts, but it seems like it would taint this thread if I just wrote up a long opinion post.

If there are any facts I've gotten wrong please point them out so I can edit. Otherwise I have to say it just sounds like maybe other people's biases are coming out as much as mine. It's a versus thread, a little contention and disagreement is probably healthy. Let the merits of each products speak for themselves.

Sorry, I was replying to your quote, and then writing a more general message after that, I guess that wasn't clear. I'll edit to make it better.

I'm confused why you're yelling at me.

The very first line of this thread is "This thread is for ColorDMD vs Mike PMD's SmartDMD." The thread title is "ColorDMD vs PMD Smart DMD comparison".

So yes, I want to compare PMD to ColorDMD. That's the whole point.

As for the editing and cost, Mike has been changing his mind on all of that as the thread has progressed. Which is his right. But until something is shipping it's hard to tell what's really going on, so I'm behind on editing info that was correct when the thread started. If someone can confirm they have a PMD SmartDMD, that they were able to load the fully colored ACDC onto it for free, and that they can edit it however they want I'd be grateful.

As I've repeatedly said, I get that SmartDMD is a separate product, that has a lot of cool DIY things. That's not what this thread is about, it never has been, never will be. So I'm sorry you're upset about it, and I can't help that the SmartDMD brand is totally confusing. It's what Mike is using for his naming.

I've said it over and over, I'll say it again: This thread is primarily for people who own ACDC (possibly Metallica or other games, but for now mostly ACDC) who want to buy something they can plug in, and have a color game.

If you're looking for something else you're in the wrong thread.

I haven't the foggiest clue, but that would be really awesome. Same game, same scenes on the DMD, running side by side in unison? You couldn't beat that for a fair comparison of the products, at least as far as how they look. Set them both to dots, since that's the clearest representation of the original art, and go for it. I think the DotsXL that ColorDMD added would be ideal since they're the most like the original LED dots, and since PMD SmartDMD can do any kind of dots, if the default ones don't match they could be edited to match exactly. Then you'd have a pretty even playing field to examine all the nuances.

Totally true. Much of the advantage PMD SmartDMD has is in the aspects when the game isn't running, when you can customize. I'm biased towards dots personally, but I do think beyond that, as interesting as smoothing and 2x scaling etc might be, that the dots are the best representation of coloring, simply because they're what was originally there.

You don't have to wonder if something odd is a scaling artifact, it's either there in the dots or it isn't.

Regardless, if anyone figures out if this is possible then by all means, run your test however you see fit, you'd deserve it after doing that work.

Thread title says PMD. Opening line says PMD. If we use SmartDMD as a shorthand after that then it's the fault of Mike's naming. If you can't be bothered to read the thread title and first post and are confused by the conversation ... well, there's not much I can do about it. Start your own thread to compare products if you're looking for something different I guess?

I'll use the word PMD in this post to be clear with you.

Sorry, but no. You were wrong. You don't seem to want to accept this, but your information was not correct. PMD was not editable on the frames level, simply the palette level. This is confirmed information. Mike then said he would change that. To which I responded

If someone can show me it's actually changed, and where to download the free ACDC ROM I would appreciate it. Happy to update the first post.

Yes, yes, we've been over this. You cannot pick 193 different color of the rainbow. But there are 193 colors with the shading. ColorDMD is shaded, PDM is "flat". There is absolutely some nuance to it and how it works. But the colors are still there, you see them, and they two products look different because of it.

What does running a Mac in "windows mode" mean? I presume you mean using some kind of VM. Yes, of course, absolutely possible. Crossover, Parallels, VMWare etc. No, not anyone with a Mac knows how to do that. Nor does everyone have a copy of software to do so, commercial or freeware, or a Windows license. So if you're on a Mac, be aware that using Pinball Browser to do edits requires Windows. And if you're savvy enough to have a VM solution lying around, then great, now you know you'll need to use it.

Edit: Sorry, was on a phone call with this post open, half-written, didn't thing to refresh and see these issues had been addressed already.

Heh, see this is the confusion. I'm going to try and clear it up, someone jump in if I get it wrong.

I think we all understand what ColorDMD is. Complete system, doesn't change your game code, it just intercepts the DMD image stream, and applies color to it (simplistic explanation). You can update it with any of the ColorDMD ROMS at any time, free.

SmartDMD, not PMD, nothing to do with Mike, is a system for building a ColorDMD-like system, that used a computer screen to show dots. People have been building their own from parts off eBay etc for a while, and doing cool things with them. Like applying a 4 color palette to it that replaces the 4 shades of orange from a DMD. Jurassic Park was done with shades of red and yellow for instance, which gives it a sort of pseudo-colorized look.

Mike took that existing idea, and is doing a couple things with it. He's offering pre-built display kits, much like the ones you can build yourself, but with the sourcing and work done for you. You can use them anywhere a SmartDMD works, though I don't know what kinds of brackets are offered.

He's also doing a complete system, which pairs the above "generic" SmartDMD display with a file that patches your game ROM to do colors. Right now that's SAM only, and ACDC is the first one.

Initially he was going to charge for the color file, cheaper as a bundle with the screen, and it was "locked", meaning you couldn't edit the dots themselves, just change one color someone had picked to another.

Now it sounds like Mike is going to offer some of these for free, and "unlocked". It's not clear yet which ones will be free or not, and I presume the ones that aren't free will remain locked, because that's what keeps people from just sharing them. Those are guesses.

So that's where the SmartDMD confusion comes from. If that's even clear at all.

Um, what?

How about people who don't like my thread either stop posting in it, or directly name the problematic information? What is it specifically?

I'm getting sick of all you people coming in here and telling me I'm wrong, and attacking me, and not actually spelling it out. You're the ones with agendas as far as I can tell. Go yell at Mike for naming his product SmartDMD if it offends you so much.

So go for it. I'm not going to stop posting in my own thread. If I said something in here that's wrong then please quote it and correct it. If you're right then I'll fix it.

Otherwise just go away, you're not adding anything of positive value to this thread.

Dots

Actually they are, exact same size and spacing as the new ColorDMD ones.

Yeah, I dunno what happened, he's still posting updates, but it doesn't seem like you can actually order any right now. Supply issues maybe.

I can tell you this: we're not too far off from being able to compare Metallica colorization too.

I already have the ColorDMD installed in my game, I can't wait for this one.

Oh, ha. Yeah, I don't think Mike shipped them like he was planning, but since he's still updating I guess it's still going to happen. I dunno, it feels like the air came out of the balloon. I was hoping for some head to head comparisons or something, and the ColorDMD is shipping and I've seen no PMD ACDC reports.

Right, that thread is what I was referring to when I said he was still updating. But has anyone actually bought one? Are they actually shipping? I've seen no first hand reports yet. Ultimately this thread is about people comparing and making calls, and then hopefully reporting back and keeping the conversation going with first hand reports and experience.

If anyone has a PMD ACDC colored pin let us know!

Mike just updated today with this:

"Unfortunately, due to my increasing work load outside of pinball I will no longer be able to assemble “turnkey” SmartDMD kits. However, I will continue to offer “DIY” kits for folks interested in building their own SmartDMD systems. DIY kits are available for $199 + shipping and include everything minus the LCD screen and driver board."

So it looks like if you're looking to do some roll your own style stuff he's going to get you part of the way there, but he's not competing in the out-of-box experience.

That, combined with the pricing model changing to give away some of the coloring pretty much puts him back into the "generic" SmartDMD camp, for people who are looking for DIY stuff instead of turnkey.

If anyone builds one and installs ACDC please post your impressions and videos here still though, maybe we can still do some kind of head to head comparison for those who are curious.

Metallica too, since the ColorDMD version is dropping shortly, not sure if the SmartDMD one is colored enough to use daily now or not.

Uh, ok. Sorry you're too busy to make them, but congrats on whatever it is that's making you busy.

What's wrong with a head to head comparison and asking people for their impressions? Isn't that what we all want to see?

I've freely admitted my Metallica bias. I know the guy who helped pick the colors and he's got a great eye. Other than that what's the issue? This was supposed to be a turnkey comparison thread. If a couple DIY people didn't like it I can't help that.

I guess that's dead now, but after all your work and posts why not at least still try to compare?

I'm sorry, Mike kept changing what was happening, which is his prerogative, but it became hard to keep up, and I kinda let the thread die since the product didn't seem to be shipping. It's just a thread to try and have a space to compare things without shitting on either company's dedicated threads, it's not a sales page, sorry if I didn't meet your expectations.

I've update the first post. But as I've always said, if something isn't accurate just post it.

You wanted to argue about generic SmartDMD stuff, and this simply wasn't the thread for it at the time, I was trying to compare the solutions for people who weren't looking for DIY, and just wanted plug and play.

Obviously that's pretty moot now, since Mike has transitioned to just providing parts to help you roll your own. Mike, I'm not actually clear on what you get for the $199 now. No LCD and driver board, so what's left? The mounting hardware and cables?

Given that there isn't an out of box showdown to talk about anymore, I relinquish my request to keep this from being about DIY stuff, so feel free to bring up or link things that are relevant.

I don't know the average price for an LCD screen and driver board for instance, so if people can give me some numbers I'll put them in the first post.

This thread was for people like you. That's all. No agenda against DIY. Was just trying to provide a place to discuss the shit you can just buy, plug in, and be done with.

If you like tinkering and rolling your own thing I totally respect that, was never crapping on it, please keep doing the mad scientist thing, I love it. I've done plenty myself.

But sometimes I just want to pay for something, plug it in, and play pinball. Neither way has to be "right", it's just different approaches. Don't understand why that's generated animosity towards me from a couple people. If I said anything confusing because "SmartDMD" kind of applied to two different things that weren't really the same then I apologize.

Sorry to hear that man, I was glad to see you posting your Fathom updates again, I hope you're able to finish that.

Well it doesn't really matter if I've made up my mind or not, the point is that other people can make up their own minds by seeing what's posted. What I put in my personal machines shouldn't make any difference towards what other people do. You've gotta figure out what's important. The products both have their own strengths and only you can decide which ones matter to you personally.

I have my own biases, I'm human, but I haven't been really arguing for one product or another, not with any strong opinions or real arguments at least.

Frankly there are two people who seem to have an issue with what I'm writing, and see the post above, everyone else seems to notice they just complain about some supposed misleading thing I'm saying, but never actually quote it.

If you have an issue please quote it specifically, so we can resolve it. If I'm wrong I'll correct it, and if not I'll try and explain better.

On my phone so I can't answer in detail, but things you're complaining about, like the $50 color file thing? Straight from Mike. Not my fault you weren't paying attention to his threads like I was. He's changed his pricing and product repeatedly since I started this thread. Sorry if I didn't keep up or it was confusing. But things like the $50 fee were simple facts, straight from the source.

Back home now, so I can quote better.

Here's the deal: you've been annoyed with me about SmartDMD representation from the very beginning, you made that clear. But you've never actually called out facts, and now that you are, I'm sorry, but you're off base.

Part of this is on Mike. Sorry Mike, not trying to play gotcha with you, but you announced things, and I started this thread, and then you kept changing things up. Even in this very thread actually. Which is totally your right! But it's not been easy to keep up with it all, and now you're not actually even doing the whole plan (for now at least) so I've kinda given up a little to be honest. I think what I have in the opening post is accurate, but if I missed something let me know.

Anyways, skipping that confusing changing part, you're acting kinda outraged that I would say extra color files are $50. Or you can't edit the dots. That's because that's what Mike said! Yes, of course you can edit dots with Pinball Browser and a homebrew SmartDmd display, but we weren't talking about people rolling their own, we were talking about the commercial kit. Which was including "locked down" files, that you could not edit. Repeat, couldn't edit them, not like normal. You could change the palettes, but you couldn't edit the dots. And they weren't free, you could get additional ones for $50.

Again, this is all straight from Mike. And I had no problem with any of it. If someone is going to spend hours and hours of their time and want to be paid for it and not give it away, and have locks on it to keep people from just copying it and messing with it? Totally cool by me. Don't like it? Color your own, give it away, whatever. So it wasn't a ding on Mike.

These are facts, not things I made up.

Thing is, in the middle of the thread Mike went "screw that, I'm giving everything away!" And cool, good for him, he's of course free to do that. But it wasn't clear what that meant. He's promised people who were coloring for him a cut of the sales. So were they going to still get paid? It seemed like the deal was some files might be given away, the ones he did himself at least, some might be $50 still, or maybe they'd be "pay what you like". I still don't honestly know.

If you know then speak up. But you didn't know about the $50 charge, or the locked files, so I'm kinda thinking you're not actually sure yourself. I think you're just defending "generic" SmartDMD, which is totally open, totally editable, and a DIY kind of product.

As I've repeatedly said, this thread isn't about that. Roll your own all you like. This was for comparing "out of the box" experiences, where you bought a complete product, plugged it in, and got color. No muss, no fuss.

No, it wasn't. Simple facts. They're still true now too, if the game isn't free, you can't edit it. That hasn't changed. How the DRM works I have no idea, Mike never posted that part. Maybe there will never be a single one released with the DRM, I have no idea. Mike would have to clarify if things are just on pause, or if he's not going back to his original idea again.

You're acting like he was just musing out loud. These are simple things that were clearly posted. He posted the prices in his official thread, I clarified in his thread what he meant just to be safe, and posted them here. Simple. No hidden agenda, no making things up.

That's simply not true, sorry. Mike announced that he would change things and give them away for free in this very thread. On page 5. This post:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/colorddmd-vs-smartdmd-comparison/page/5#post-2294855

Again, good for Mike! I'm not attacking him at all. But page 5 of my thread is pretty deep into it, you're acting like when I started it things were going to be free already. Not true. My link there proves it.

I have no idea if anyone ever actually paid for one. To my knowledge Mike never shipped a single complete kit, so I doubt it. If anyone bought one and got it shipped to them feel free to chime in.

Now it seems that Mike has pretty much abandoned his plan for now, and is simply supporting the free, DIY side of things. But I have no real clue what's happening with people who were already coloring games, after being told they'd be paid for them. Maybe they're still doing it, maybe they stopped, maybe they decided to give them away too. If you're one of those colorists please add to the conversation.

Or Mike, chime in if I have something wrong, I'm obviously not privy to your side of the private business arrangements.

As it is this thread isn't really useful anymore, there are no longer two turnkey products to compare. I've edited the info post already, I read it again just now and it's all still accurate I think. As far as I know right now the only options are the free ones, it will take time to see if anyone ever tries to offer a colored ROM macro for sale.

I resent your implications, which is why I'm having this pointless argument. Everything I've posted in this thread has been a fact. You have yet to point out anything that wasn't true (at the time of posting at least).

All I wanted was for people to have a place to decide which ACDC they wanted to buy. I was hoping for a side by side comparison video even. TPF would have been great, but there were no ACDC SmartDMDs there. From what I hear Metallica was, no idea if it was completely colored or not. Maybe with ColorDMD about to release Metallica we'll see a side by side of that one?

See, you're just making this personal. I do feel defensive, because you're attacking me, but it's certainly not personal with me. You're not arguing in good faith, you're just trying to poke at me. You're being blustery and sarcastic, fine, good for you, but you're not linking any posts, or providing any evidence. Just being mad over ... who knows what. That I dared to create a space for people to compare products that compete that they might want to decide to buy?

I have no idea what Mike was privately discussing. He was sure making lots of public announcements. Everything I posted was based on those public announcements. If he was thinking about offering things for free why was he posting prices in his own threads? $50 for a colorized game if you've already bought the display. Posted in his official thread, by him. I'm not psychic, I have no idea how believing that makes me the unreasonable person.

How was it "well known"? Was it posted on Pinside? Was it public in some way I was supposed to know? Can you link up the evidence for your claim? I linked Mike's post in this thread, anyone can read what he said. Here, I'll quote it:

There it is, on page 5. He credits this very thread for his decision. So sorry, your story makes no sense. And if there's any truth to your claim it was never publicly supported that I saw, and there's no way I could know it, because somehow I'm not part of every conversation, your snark aside. Thank goodness. You can tell me you told me so, but I don't know who you are. So yeah, I went with the person who's running the company's official announcements over Random Guy Who's Mad At Me For No Reason. Shock.

I'm done with this back and forth. You're obviously taking this all personally for some reason. I've never attacked Mike, I've never twisted his words, I've only posted what was public knowledge, and he thanked me for the thread. Frankly I've tried to keep my own opinions out of this thread to be fair. I could say a lot about either product, and make my own arguments for which I prefer. I've declined to do so to try and keep the thread as neutral as I could. Purely because it felt right, there's no Pinside rule about me making my own arguments.

So whatever your issue is you can just deal with it I guess, I'm not interested in continuing to debate with you. The facts have been posted, anyone can read them or research them to see they're true. You haven't posted any, so people can just make up their own minds on whether to believe you or not.

I'm done with it, once it was obvious he was just out to get me, and not actually contribute any real information I was over it.

So it goes, you can't please everyone, I'd be a moron to even try.

Well technically it's not my goat, I'm just renting it from Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00UBYDXXQ/ref=nosim/0sil8

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