Right, who is his target audience? Those prices imply the game to be 100% working and in very nice cosmetic condition. You can't sell a game heavily routed condition to the retail buyer, can you?
They're not easy to find in excellent condition. I was thinking an unshopped WH20 w/playfield wear seems high to me at $4k as well, but it does have the topper, and can't see many issues from the low-res pics, so it would need to be judged in person. I'm actually surprised to hear of a diamond plate playfield with "too much wear".
I've observed CL flagging as about 1/3 legitimate (misrepresentation/overposting), 1/3 shady buyers trying to eliminate competition by taking an ad down, and 1/3 unknown/personal. I thought the shady buyer thing was done once prices stopped skyrocketing, but the competitive nature of the hobby is alive and kicking.
Quoted from HFK:
I need to get back out to Colorado. So many fun things to do. If it wasn't for the winters I would already live there.
I've spent substantial time in both CO and FL, and the general impression is this:
Both have 300 days of sunshine
Both have 7 months of amazing weather and 5 months of weather that requires some toughing out.
It's true in FL you can wear shorts and t-shirts year round, but in the summer (May-Sep) you will tend to spend your time indoors in air conditioning, windows shut 24x7. You can go to the beach, but 88 degree water doesn't actually cool you down, neither does shade, so everyone has swimming pools in their back yard. If you do any outdoors activities in those 5 months you are going to need a shower afterwards, anything as simple as yard work, or a walk, in which case you risk a torrential downpour, so cars are used for all transportation. In those 5 months there isn't a single day's break from 90 degrees w/90% humidity. I personally didn't have a problem with it, easy enough to adapt.
In CO the cold is intermittent in the 5 month period of Nov-March, and there will be inevitably a week where the temperature is below freezing for a week, but it's just as likely see a week in January with temps 50-70 degrees. Year-round in CO plenty of people play golf, wear shorts, and ride their bikes to work. The reason is the lack of humidity and weather... any time the temp is above 32 degrees it's very tolerable and even 100 degree weather is fine as shade actually cools you down. You will feel very comfortable wearing shorts in 50 degree weather in CO, where that is not the case in FL. You have to keep a light jacket handy as the weather changes constantly.
After having gone through my first winter in many years, I now think that CO has more good weather days than FL, as defined by the number of days per year where it's possible to take a comfortable walk outside. For me, the mountains have far more interesting things to do than the beach, and ultimately both remain my top 2 states to live in.
Quoted from Wickerman2:
Plus, no offense, but the nuts seem to drain down to FL and end up there for some reason. Seems like you hear more crazy stories coming out of that state than anywhere.
Now let's not get crazy here... you're comparing it to the state famous for Jonbenet Ramsey, Columbine shooting, the Batman theater shooting, or just in the past year the Arapaho High shooting, Stanley Lake lunch room suicide, and possibly the most disturbing of all, the craigslist fetus kidnapping.
Quoted from ryanwanger:
The SMVE rumors are so strong right now. Not willing to wait a little to see if it happens?
There is some gambling involved with waiting. Original SMs may become more plentiful on the market when SMVE is released, but they are already priced slightly below a NIB Stern Pro. Then the rumors of it being premium priced may make people consider whether a $2k upgrade is worth it, and the originals may look like a deal and get a slight bump in price... especially considering this:
I don't see a ton of artwork on SM from the original movie anyhow, a little on the translite and a handful of plastics. Using new translite and plastics used on SMVE would make an original look like a generic SM pin too.
Quoted from fosaisu:
Oops, sounds like I had the wrong idea about what powder coating should cost. I thought I read somewhere that markmon gets his done for ~ $150 per game so I was expecting something more in that range!
It is possible to get the job done cheaper, but you're looking at the difference between Stern's nearly painted armor as opposed JJP's multi-stage powder coating application that gives depth, texture, and gloss. It's the difference between getting your car painted at Maaco or a custom hot rod shop, and $100 on a $4k+ game is typically less than the cost of LEDs, toppers and mods... with a bigger impact.
Here are some examples of the multi-stage applications:
I've got a game I'd like to get done as well, but ideally want a shop that knows how to do pinball parts properly.
You'll likely miss this on the Pinside front page... take a look if you have any interest in a multi-location team league.
Quoted from ryanwanger:
That's where I was when I started pinball. Pinball machines have way more problems than vids, but they're easier to learn to fix (and most of the problems are smaller than what is required of recapping monitors or board repair).
Exactly... pinball issues tend to impact a small section of the game and repair takes 2 minutes with a screwdriver. When a video game has an issue it tends to be 100% unplayable and requires 30 minutes of electronics troubleshooting and repair. The fear of buying a used pinball machine is largely unfounded... everyone has to learn how to repair them at some point!
Quoted from reynolds531:
The difficulties arise with electrical problems especially with circuit boards. It takes more than a screw driver.
Yes, there are as many electronics involved in a pinball machine as a video game, but my experience is this: I've owned 18 pins and 18 video games. I've had issues with 16 of the 18 video games, usually multiple times, and that usually involves a repair tech, but only 6 of the 18 pins. While it may have something to do with the age of the games, my older pins have been fairly solid performers. I understand there is a lot better chance of bulletproofing vids than pins, but that is contrary to my personal experience in a home use environment.
Quoted from ryanwanger:
Also, Baiter mentioned this to me today...should we have a dedicated thread for Colorado events? Or maybe something outside of Pinside? A weekly email might be pretty awesome - so as to include those not on Facebook or Pinside.
My issue since I moved to CO is lack of centralized location for events. I see info spread around on web sites (poorly maintained), multiple Facebook groups (found a third today), Pinside forums (like looking for a needle in a haystack), group text messages, emails, flyers you can only find if you visit X or Y location just prior to the event.
If I want to know is monthly tournament X still REALLY going this month it's hit and miss. Once I was ready to attend a tournament but couldn't for the life of me figure out if it was really on to risk the drive, even using their own web site. Another time I went to an event only to find the venue empty. I was told in passing a different monthly tournament went defunct, yet still posted as active on one of the web sites, so I crossed it off of my own calendar of events. It just feels like a lot of effort for what boils down to a simple shared calendar that can answer "what is going on this week".
Facebook has an event calendar but I'm not seeing anyone use it. Overall I think Facebook is too generic, forces sorting and sifting to find posts about events, commonly only if you know what event you are looking for. Similarly, a single Pinside thread might be too unorganized requiring searches rather than looking at a single page listing "what's going on this week", but I would opt for it over Facebook because it's focused on pinball. Meetup.com is specifically designed for recurring events allowing organizers to set and confirm schedules with message forums/date/time/location/calendar/alarms to give you exactly "what is going on this week", works fantastic for other recurring events I attend, so I can't think of anything better at this point.
Quoted from Russell:
Baiter, do you watch the IFPA calendar? I find that it is a well-maintained site for sanctioned events.
I'll add it to the list of the other sources I check, but I can already tell it suffers from the same issues I listed earlier. Next 1-up monthly tournament is listed 8 months away (I know it is next week), and the next Metroboom monthly is 7 months away (no info about it on the website as linked from IFPA to verify)... and I'm fairly certain most league info will not appear in the IFPA calendar either, so the overall value is debatable.
Quoted from HFK:
You need to set up the Colorado edition of The Village.
If you click on 1up and Metroboom on the map it shows different dates months into the future... likely an issue with the IFPA software.
Quoted from VacFink:
Thanks, messaged too, no difference. Probably bombarded.
The ad basically reads like this: "I have stuff to sell, contact me for more info about my stuff!"
And in the fine print: "* disclaimer: Requests for location, listings, pricing, or any further details about said stuff will be ignored. Watch for another ad in 1 week."
Quoted from outcida:
All prices will be whatever is listed in 2016 Mr. Pinball Price guide +$200 for handling. You have to buy more than one for free shipping.
One would hope prices reflect condition rather than a price guide... and I've never heard of a handling fee. Sounds sketchy.
Quoted from jar155:
I'm going to bring a game out to RMPS, most likely. I'm not planning on selling, but with a good enough of an arm twist, I might let something go. It'll be one of the following:
- Elvira and the Party Monsters
- Bride of Pinbot
- Ghostbusters LE (this one would be 100% not for sale)
Any preferences for what I should bring out? All machines are in great shape.
Bring what you want to show off instead of what you want to sell. It's a show not a swap meet.
Quoted from WesleyCowan:
Wish there was an official swap meet with pins, parts etc for sale in the parking lot or somewhere at the show.
It's easier if everyone posts what they can bring for sale to this thread, and parking lot arrangements can be made for pickup. It'll be more efficient than spending a few hours standing around outside.
I have a 1947 United "Mexico" Flipperless woodrail (w/wood legs) available, I can bring it to the show. It is mostly complete, missing a few odds and ends such as plastic inserts, saucer kicker arm, playfield glass, and backbox back. I have more pics available for anyone interested. IMO the cabinet and playfield art held up better than EMs made 30 years later... Neat looking game. Looking for $250 and all proceeds go to Project Pinball.
Quoted from Sijcolo:
I would prefer to sell my games to a pinsider but it's not worth the added cost. Most games I've posted here haven't sold here but through craigslist. Turns out most my Craigslist adds were pinsiders.
My personal preference is to buy and sell in person, which gives Craigslist an edge due to its broader local audience than Pinside. If you are looking for top $ for a particularly rare/high end game, then shipping to/from Pinsiders is the way to go. The middle ground is more grey... Pinside's value over Craigslist is buyer/seller ratings, but it lacks distance radius integration particularly with Wishlist notifications. Ultimately a $5-10 listing on Pinside for sellers is a more than reasonable way to help filter out the cruft you get from Craigslist.
However, I have a really interesting flipperless game I've been trying to sell for charity but have had an amazingly difficult time finding a local buyer on Pinside or Craigslist at any price, so paying for an ad on Pinside as a significant portion of the sales price doesn't sound all that attractive either.
Quoted from jalpert:
Sometimes, it's quicker, easier, and almost as good to just donate it and take the write-off.
Yes... except as I said the bike was a charity donation, and I'm trying to turn it into some paltry amount of money for the charity, which is ultimately not much more than a pinball raffle ticket costs, except in this case you are guaranteed to win a game.
Quoted from Elicash:
Yeah, the seller emailed me finally a couple of days ago and said all of his responses to his Craigslist ads were going to his junk folder. Still pretty odd, but i guess that stuff happens.
That's actually not odd at all... I cannot for the life of me keep craigslist replies out of my Yahoo Mail spam folder.
Quoted from jalpert:
Does it seem like pins aren't selling as well this year as they have in years past? Looking at Craigslist, usually some of the overpriced stuff sells this time of year. It looks like it's the same games just sitting.
It does appear like used game pricing is dropping while NIB prices are rising. That obviously can't continue for too long.
Everything about Facebook is terrible... but it does appear to be the lowest common denominator for pinball communication outside of Pinside. Emphasis on "lowest".
I'm selling my SM that I've had for years. I've put a lot of time and money into it, and I actually like this particular sample better than any other I've had my hands on.... but it's the first of a handful of games I will be selling in the near future.
Quoted from mountaingamer:
I'm wondering about how many plays would a game like Dialed In get over a 3 day show? I'm sure there will be a line to play the entire show & thinking maybe 1200 - 1500 games? I'm interested!
I've seen audit counts for a game played constantly in 3 day show in the 550 range. At the end of that 3 days all one has to do is wipe down the dirt and it's as good as new.
I've seen quite a few really nice Congos over the years. Their popularity seems to go up and down, as I've seen them sit on the trading block for a while at very fair prices. That was also several years ago... now games tend to sit in collections a lot more than they used to.
Quoted from mesmashu:
Colorado market has been rather stale lately... what's going on?
Yea, I get the impression the mostly tepid buying interest is focused on NIB games, few of which excite me personally. It would be a lot more fun to have more games moving around the market. It may be one drawback to having so many locations to play.
Quoted from ryanwanger:
I think it would involve figuring out a machine or range of machines they are interested in, finding the machine, and doing delivery/setup. Maybe in some ways, it would be like being a realtor for people buying pinball machines. Is there anyone out there who would want to provide this as a service? I think you could make a little bit of money on the side doing this for newbies and charging by the hour.
There is definitely a broker market out there, for new and for seasoned collectors.
A retailer is likely the best best option for newbies who aren't sure what's out there, how to tell if a deal is worth while and how to understand the basics of maintaining a game, so it's worth ponying up some extra money for the help, advice, possible transport, on top of finding their ideal game, and perhaps service later on. An individual could certainly do all that as well, but tend to be less reliable.
I had a neighbor willing to buy a Kings & Queens if I ever ran across one (still haven't to this day). It would have been worth it to both of us if I happened to find one, transport it, fix it up a bit, helped him install it, and tacked on $200 for the time, gas, and parts (we can argue separately if that even covers it). Broker is a better description for this than the term we are more familiar with (Flipper).
I have also talked to plenty of seasoned collectors that would gladly offer a finder's fee (aka broker fee) if someone could locate and secure a tough to find game for them in X condition, at Y cost, etc.
In other words, knowledge and connections can definitely bring value if someone wanted to do this... and let's face it, there are more people already doing that than we all realize, but outside of retailers, most do it in a more hidden way. New owners are a benefit to everyone in the hobby.
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