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(Topic ID: 267841)

“Collector Quality” to needs some work after Pilot Freight delivery!


By Zplumb

5 months ago



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  • 140 posts
  • 54 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 days ago by atrainn
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    #1 5 months ago

    Anyone have any ideas what it would cost to have these items fixed on a machine that I just had delivered? Trying to get an idea to see what the shipping company should be responsible for reimbursing for the Damage. The seller offered shipping as part of the transaction but I’m guessing didn’t have it insured.... and Was told it would take several months to get anything resolved

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    #2 5 months ago

    You should not have even accepted delivery in that condition.

    #3 5 months ago

    Boy that sucks. Good luck to ya. Probably wouldn’t hurt to name the shipper...

    On an unrelated note - what’s that Jack Daniels table u have ? That is pretty cool

    #4 5 months ago

    Holy $H!t that game is F@&#’d
    I woulda refused that in a heartbeat. Pilot absolutely destroyed it.
    Send it to a high end resto place. That game needs it. Maybe HEP?

    What a shame. Just totally destroyed that sucker. I’d say they’re responsible for 3-4k worth of damage, because who the hell is gonna wanna fix that shit?

    You’ve got 2 options:
    Some jackass glue & clamp that will never sit right again
    Or
    Have someone repair/replace the damaged wood, which will most likely require them to tear apart the cabinet completely and reglue and nail it back together.

    Then the art needs to be touched up or new art needs to be ordered and the old be removed and replaced.

    Then the hinges will have to be repaired, good luck ever getting it straight again. Probably gotta buy a new one.

    The leg picture I don’t understand honestly. Did it get shipped with legs on?

    Since this game is “collector quality” don’t settle for horseshit touch ups and bandages.
    Have it done right. Replace and rebuilt it the right way at their expense.

    Also never EVER ship a game unless it’s done by Bob Cunningham, rixzilla or Fast Eddy.

    Those other “professional” services, like Pilot Freight are an absolute clown show. I had better luck with Fastenal and they snapped the pallet in half putting the games in my truck.

    #5 5 months ago

    Wow that sucks. Can I assume looking at the pictures this was shipped assembled with the legs on and manhandled from the back box from the shipper. Won’t be easy to fix this.

    #6 5 months ago

    Does this place even insure?
    That really blows.

    #7 5 months ago

    That looks like it fell over at some point in shipping.

    #8 5 months ago

    Most shippers are self insured. I was when I transported games. Insurance company's will not insure the contents of a truck or trailer because the load changes day to day. One day you may have a load of $10,000 the next day it could be $40,000. I tried to insure the contents of the trailer for $100,000 and 40,000 miles. No insurer wanted the business. Your going to have a hard time collecting. My guess is they will offer you $500. Good luck with your claim.

    #9 5 months ago
    Quoted from Yelobird:

    Wow that sucks. Can I assume looking at the pictures this was shipped assembled with the legs on and manhandled from the back box from the shipper. Won’t be easy to fix this.

    I'm still surprised to hear of titles getting shipped with the legs on, seems like a receipe for disaster. I know for some people it's worked out well but then there's stories like this and that LOTR from years back that fell out of a truck.

    Sorry to hear and see the damage OP. I think the game is a near total loss and that the shipper should be responsible. It looks like little care went into how the game was handled by the shipping company.

    From what I can you need at least a new cabinet, all new armor, and a few other smaller items. This is all assuming that the playfield and components in the head are fine. Decals for Black Knight can still be found. It may be worthwhile to see if you can get a new cabinet made from a 3rd party seller, or check with Stern to see if they may have any spares are still available for purchase.

    Virtua Pin may be able to make a new cabinet.

    https://virtuapin.net/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_vz33L2Z6QIVBdvACh0XiQ6XEAAYASAAEgK0DPD_BwE

    #10 5 months ago

    Ouch, that hurts to see.

    A good carpenter could probably have that looking decent again for $500 or so.

    Getting the machine back to "collector quality" will take thousands of dollars if you can find someone willing to do all of it.

    Unfortunately, from my experience in shipping games (decades with dozens of companies) most LTL freight companies like Pilot will not insure for machine value and instead insure/pay out for damage based on weight. So for a pinball machine they will probably offer at most $500, unless third party insurance was purchased.

    This is why I typically (for long distances, only) use STI. Yes, they are expensive, but they handle these games with a bit more care and value-based insurance is included. And yes I ship with the legs on all the time. I've posted about my process here plenty of times.

    Of course the last part doesn't help you now OP, I'm sorry. I would push the freight company to pay out as much as possible. See where that goes, and decide from there. Good luck!

    #11 5 months ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    I'm still surprised to hear of titles getting shipped with the legs on, seems like a receipe for disaster. I know for some people it's worked out well but then there's stories like this and that LOTR from years back that fell out of a truck.
    Sorry to hear and see the damage OP. I think the game is a near total loss and that the shipper should be responsible. It looks like little care went into how the game was handled by the shipping company.
    From what I can you need at least a new cabinet, all new armor, and a few other smaller items. This is all assuming that the playfield and components in the head are fine. Decals for Black Knight can still be found. It may be worthwhile to see if you can get a new cabinet made from a 3rd party seller, or check with Stern to see if they may have any spares are still available for purchase.
    Virtua Pin may be able to make a new cabinet.
    https://virtuapin.net/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_vz33L2Z6QIVBdvACh0XiQ6XEAAYASAAEgK0DPD_BwE

    There are stories of games shipped on legs getting destroyed.

    There are stories of games not on legs getting destroyed.

    I have shipped dozens both ways and the worst thing that’s ever happened is a bent leg.

    Sometimes you get lucky sometimes you don’t

    #12 5 months ago
    Quoted from ReplayRyan:

    Ouch, that hurts to see.
    A good carpenter could probably have that looking decent again for $500 or so.
    Getting the machine back to "collector quality" will take thousands of dollars if you can find someone willing to do all of it.
    Unfortunately, from my experience in shipping games (decades with dozens of companies) most LTL freight companies like Pilot will not insure for machine value and instead insure/pay out for damage based on weight. So for a pinball machine they will probably offer at most $500, unless third party insurance was purchased.
    This is why I typically (for long distances, only) use STI. Yes, they are expensive, but they handle these games with a bit more care and value-based insurance is included. And yes I ship with the legs on all the time. I've posted about my process here plenty of times.
    Of course the last part doesn't help you now OP, I'm sorry. I would push the freight company to pay out as much as possible. See where that goes, and decide from there. Good luck!

    We shipped a machine via STI that was damaged. Shipped without legs in a factory carton. Cabinet damaged heavily. Arrived at the customer with glass falling out of the crate. Best we could get out of STI was return the game and refund our freight. My best friend is the GM at a nation wide moving company, and he told me we should be excited we even got what we got from STI.

    #13 5 months ago
    Quoted from ReplayRyan:

    A good carpenter could probably have that looking decent again for $500 or so.

    Define decent. One could probably make the game playable but it needs a new cabinet to be collector quality again. By the time you add artwork you're well over $1,000 for parts alone for a new cabinet.

    #14 5 months ago

    Man that sucks. I'd call the seller right away and see if he even purchased insurance. I agree that you shouldn't have accepted the game from Pilot.

    #15 5 months ago

    If you don’t accept the game and they take it back, what guarantee is there that the seller gives you your money back? I’d have no game and out several thousand. And who knows how worse the game gets damaged after putting it back in there hands again. It’s somewhat repairable now.....

    #16 5 months ago
    Quoted from Zplumb:

    If you don’t accept the game and they take it back, what guarantee is there that the seller gives you your money back?

    The same guarantee you had if the game never showed up.
    Risk management is the key. If you're relying on the profits from flipping this game to pay your rent you'll take more precautions than if you would have used that cash to start your next bonfire.

    Vid's guide has some good info. Escrow.com is one option. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-not-get-ripped-off-in-pinball-vids-guide

    #17 5 months ago

    Did you at least sign for it as DAMAGED?
    Yes, it will take months to get a resolution.

    18
    #18 5 months ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    The same guarantee you had if the game never showed up.
    Risk management is the key. If you're relying on the profits from flipping this game to pay your rent you'll take more precautions than if you would have used that cash to start your next bonfire.
    Vid's guide has some good info. Escrow.com is one option. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-not-get-ripped-off-in-pinball-vids-guide

    I’m not flipping anything bud! My sons bday was May 1st and was wanting to have a cool game in house for him to enjoy (along with the rest of us) especially considering he can’t celebrate with his friends. I believe I’m allowed to be frustrated considering what I paid considering what showed up after the game arrived!

    #19 5 months ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    The same guarantee you had if the game never showed up.
    Risk management is the key. If you're relying on the profits from flipping this game to pay your rent you'll take more precautions than if you would have used that cash to start your next bonfire.
    Vid's guide has some good info. Escrow.com is one option. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-not-get-ripped-off-in-pinball-vids-guide

    Recently used escrow.com for the first time. Not the cheapest option out there, but it was a pretty frictionless, fast, and secure transaction. I would definitely prefer to use them over a system like PayPal.

    #20 5 months ago
    Quoted from Zplumb:

    I’m not flipping anything bud! My sons bday was May 1st and was wanting to have a cool game in house for him to enjoy (along with the rest of us) especially considering he can’t celebrate with his friends. I believe I’m allowed to be frustrated considering what I paid considering what showed up after the game arrived!

    Oh yeah, I would be pissed too. Totally understandable.

    #21 5 months ago

    If you need an amount for insurance, call HEP or another restoration service and ask for a quote.

    You could tell the insurance company that the damage is equal to the amount paid. The game is essentially totaled and will most likely cost more than you paid to have a professional make it perfect

    #22 5 months ago
    Quoted from Zplumb:

    I’m not flipping anything bud! My sons bday was May 1st and was wanting to have a cool game in house for him to enjoy (along with the rest of us) especially considering he can’t celebrate with his friends. I believe I’m allowed to be frustrated considering what I paid considering what showed up after the game arrived!

    You have every right to be frustrated No doubt and anyone would be distraught having a game arrive like this. Hindsight now but Never accept any game or package that looks like this. Accepted now this has a very small probability of becoming whole any time soon if at all. Rejecting it at least you had only the seller to deal with and the method you paid with. Trucking companies are rarely your friend. Good luck sorry for your misfortune.

    #23 5 months ago

    The game showed up two hours earlier then the window I was given! I was working at the time and couldnt be reached. My wife was home and luckily unwrapped it before the delivery guy left and saw some of the damage. And with no guarantee the seller would refund the payment, she thought this was the best way for it to be handled. He’s inspecting the game as you can see in one of the pics

    #24 5 months ago

    Was the shipment signed for as DAMAGED?
    If the seller paid for the shipping and made the arrangements, I feel certain it is on THEM to file a freight claim.
    Have you since messaged with them about this issue?

    #25 5 months ago
    Quoted from Atari_Daze:

    Was the shipment signed for as DAMAGED?
    If the seller paid for the shipping and made the arrangements, I feel certain it is on THEM to file a freight claim.
    Have you since messaged with them about this issue?

    Of course..... he was my first call! And I’m not asking anyone how to handle this with the shipping company or the seller! I believe my initial post was referring to the cost for repairs.

    #26 5 months ago
    Quoted from Zplumb:

    I believe my initial post was referring to the cost for repairs.

    Quoted from chubtoad13:

    If you need an amount for insurance, call HEP or another restoration service and ask for a quote.

    You could tell the insurance company that the damage is equal to the amount paid. The game is essentially totaled and will most likely cost more than you paid to have a professional make it perfect

    +1

    #27 5 months ago
    Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

    Then the art needs to be touched up or new art needs to be ordered and the old be removed and replaced.

    It's BDK.... how in the hell are either of these things viable? I mean..I guess a really talented painter MIGHT be able to touch it up, but that's the oldschool Stern spotty dithered silkscreen art. It's never going to look completely right being painted by hand or airbrushed. Nobody's selling decals because...it's Batman, and not originally decals AFAIK.

    #28 5 months ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    Nobody's selling decals because...it's Batman, and not originally decals AFAIK.

    Decals here: https://www.retrorefurbs.com/shop/batman-the-dark-knight-pinball-cabinet-decals/

    #29 5 months ago

    Well, price a set of decals, legs, head hinge bars and a complete cabinet and PM HEP and ask him what he would charge to do it. Pay him for his time for the labor and freight quote. Once the claim is paid, order the parts and have them shipped to HEP as well as the damaged machine (via different freight company.)

    Every freight company I’ve ever had a claim with, be it STI, NAVL, FedEx, UPS, SAIA, etc, has at first denied the claim for failure to properly pack the item. This is going to be a nightmare. You and the seller are going to be on the phone back and forth for a month. The seller is going to have as much work into this as you. Get ready. You’ll want to pull your hair out or cause great harm to someone at Pilot. Keep after them. If you don’t hear from them, call. Just remembered something, call. You qweef in the middle of the night, call. Keep on them! They’re told to procrastinate and hope you just go away. Make sure the seller keeps on them also. Freight claim personnel are much worse than auto insurance claim personnel. They may be worse than debt collectors (just not as much fun to mess with!)

    #30 5 months ago

    'scuse me while I go eat my shoe.

    Though I've got to ask..the quantity of licenced stuff that place is selling....really wondering if they actually have the rights or are just printing stuff without it.

    #31 5 months ago

    I wouldn’t panic that head can be re-glued with an easy touch-up (Black is easy) and the leg and hinge replaced. I personally don’t think it would take much to bring back. Perhaps not collector quality but you can do a good job with it.

    As far as insurance find out from the seller what they may have had or contact the shipper they will have that information as well. Most have a minimum built into the quote. Get some estimates and submit.

    I have had both Jukeboxes and pins that were damaged to some degree and have always been reimbursed satisfactory from the shippers insurance company.

    Don

    #32 5 months ago
    Quoted from ryanbrooks:

    Well, price a set of decals, legs, head hinge bars and a complete cabinet and PM HEP and ask him what he would charge to do it. Pay him for his time for the labor and freight quote. Once the claim is paid, order the parts and have them shipped to HEP as well as the damaged machine (via different freight company.)
    Every freight company I’ve ever had a claim with, be it STI, NAVL, FedEx, UPS, SAIA, etc, has at first denied the claim for failure to properly pack the item. This is going to be a nightmare. You and the seller are going to be on the phone back and forth for a month. The seller is going to have as much work into this as you. Get ready. You’ll want to pull your hair out or cause great harm to someone at Pilot. Keep after them. If you don’t hear from them, call. Just remembered something, call. You qweef in the middle of the night, call. Keep on them! They’re told to procrastinate and hope you just go away. Make sure the seller keeps on them also. Freight claim personnel are much worse than auto insurance claim personnel. They may be worse than debt collectors (just not as much fun to mess with!)

    Might wager that would be the first BDK HEP ever had commissioned to restore lol.

    #33 5 months ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    Though I've got to ask..the quantity of licenced stuff that place is selling....really wondering if they actually have the rights or are just printing stuff without it.

    No need to ask, they pretty clearly don’t.

    #34 5 months ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    No need to ask, they pretty clearly don’t.

    So..back to my original point then... not that I suspect most people are going to give two hoots about illegal copying...of anything.

    #35 5 months ago

    Perfect example of why sellers don’t usually set up shipping. Hope you guys figure it out.

    #36 5 months ago

    Retro refurbs are straight thieves.
    There's a Pinsider named Malenko that made an alt translite for SFII. They blatantly stole it and sell it. Fuck them.

    #37 5 months ago

    Just wanted to give you guys an idea what I’m dealing with! He has the same pics I’ve got on this thread.....

    4E0064B1-7745-49CD-AC30-0A15978E458A (resized).png
    #38 5 months ago
    Quoted from Zplumb:

    He has the same pics I’ve got on this thread

    So then, how about before pics of the game?
    Should be cut and dry if the before pics show no damage whatsoever?

    #39 5 months ago

    $200 to fix - what a joke, that damage is in the thousands - whole new cabinet and cost to have it shipped and everything moved over. And probably can’t order a cabinet for it anymore - wasn’t that screened and not decals. Good luck....

    15
    #40 5 months ago

    Note to self: don't buy a BMDK from this guy.

    #41 5 months ago
    Quoted from Zplumb:

    Just wanted to give you guys an idea what I’m dealing with! He has the same pics I’ve got on this thread.....
    [quoted image]

    I told you they would offer a pitiful amount to start. Stay on them! Remind the shipper, you didn’t pay top dollar for a repaired cabinet and try to document other titles of similar value where you see the sale of a repaired cabinet vs the sale of an unaltered cabinet. Take pics inside the cabinet to show structural damage at the joints.

    Get a quote from HEP. Get a second and third quotes from others that specialize in pinball. PM me, and I’ll write up a quote from my company-Alpha Vending.

    #42 5 months ago
    Quoted from ryanbrooks:

    I told you they would offer a pitiful amount to start. Stay on them! Remind the shipper, you didn’t pay top dollar for a repaired cabinet and try to document other titles of similar value where you see the sale of a repaired cabinet vs the sale of an unaltered cabinet. Take pics inside the cabinet to show structural damage at the joints.
    Get a quote from HEP. Get a second and third quotes from others that specialize in pinball. PM me, and I’ll write up a quote from my company-Alpha Vending.

    Sadly that’s the seller (who arranged the shipping) low-balling him on the restoration cost. I don’t know what arrangement they had, but regardless I’d be pissed if someone told me with a straight face that could be 100% restored for “$200 or less.” Laughable.

    #43 5 months ago
    Quoted from Zplumb:

    Just wanted to give you guys an idea what I’m dealing with! He has the same pics I’ve got on this thread.....
    [quoted image]

    Wtf. Easily repairable? He's talking like a decal was scratched or that this is like the cracked cabinet issue we saw on new Sterns a couple years back. This isn't anything like that. The seller is full of crap saying this is a $200 repair. $2k+ is more like it for a new cabinet with new decals, plus a full set of custom armor.

    #44 5 months ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Sadly that’s the seller (who arranged the shipping) low-balling him on the restoration cost. I don’t know what arrangement they had, but regardless I’d be pissed if someone told me with a straight face that could be 100% restored for “$200 or less.” Laughable.

    Ya, my bad for not reading thoroughly. OP, if you paid with a credit card or escrow service, dispute the transaction until this is resolved. That will motivate this brain dead seller.

    #45 5 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    There are stories of games shipped on legs getting destroyed.
    There are stories of games not on legs getting destroyed.
    I have shipped dozens both ways and the worst thing that’s ever happened is a bent leg.
    Sometimes you get lucky sometimes you don’t

    STI shipped a SMVE I bought with legs on and it destroyed the cabinet - never again for me

    Quoted from ryanbrooks:

    We shipped a machine via STI that was damaged. Shipped without legs in a factory carton. Cabinet damaged heavily. Arrived at the customer with glass falling out of the crate. Best we could get out of STI was return the game and refund our freight. My best friend is the GM at a nation wide moving company, and he told me we should be excited we even got what we got from STI.

    Same exact thing here. Called up our most trusted Pinside contact at STI and said I needed to ship a game.
    Gave specifics, was quoted $450 or so and ASSUMED that included insurance on a $5,000 + pin. Sadly nope.

    Game arrived damaged, sitting up in the nose of the trailer, with no covering, no blanketing and just a tiny bit of shrink wrap still clinging to it
    Blown out cabinet corner, damaged decals in half dozen places, bent leg, etc
    Photographed at delivery and signed for (with driver present) as "damaged" - didn't make a bit of difference

    I spent hours filling out claim forms, chasing down 3 repair quotes (wait until you discover how hard repair quotes are to get )

    I pestered and begged STI and finally ended up with "freight weight" compensation.
    I ended up getting it repaired locally and leaving the decals as is - even as I type this I'm still miffed about it
    If STI was the last freight company on earth to ship pins, I'd never use them again - sadly, I probably recommended them to others 2-3 times per year.
    Now I make it my mission to warn others.
    Contact one of the folks on Pinside that hauls these for a living to get your pin or better yet - make the road trip yourself
    Wish you the best on this OP ... stinks, I know

    #46 5 months ago

    Ok can I guess it’s the one from this listing? Rails and every detail minus damage appear the same. If this is the one, I question the “I’m a shipping pro” comment lol.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/92601

    #47 5 months ago

    Collectors quality you say? Shipping companies dime you say? Well I know HEP makes things "like new" again.

    this is over $100 with shipping and out of stock
    https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/500-5921-51

    another $211 for decals plus shipping

    https://www.retrorefurbs.com/shop/batman-the-dark-knight-pinball-cabinet-decals/

    this guy does WPC cabinets for 900-1400 but unsure of stern
    https://virtuapin.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19&products_id=136&zenid=57ffrd9n8q7t890n12br5dkhj6

    Maybe ask the guy for connections to the $200 dollar back in collectors condition repair.
    Cheaper to repair than total it. If it were auto insurance they would just replace it and throw the old in a junkyard lol.
    header does not look to bad honestly but to be collectors quality again is gonna cost some money.
    Could it easily be made players condition for $500 sure but not collectors condition. This hurts value IMO!

    #48 5 months ago
    Quoted from Zplumb:

    Just wanted to give you guys an idea what I’m dealing with! He has the same pics I’ve got on this thread.....
    [quoted image]

    Guys, if you pay attention this appears to be a shipping company representative, Pilot, responding like a dickhead and suggesting this happens, the shipper pays for the damages caused BY PILOT and it’s only a couple hundred bucks.
    Ask him if a valet smashed the shit out of his car, would he be paying because the valet only moved the care but is not responsible for the damages the VALET caused? No. The person or company who causes the damage pays for it.

    As I said earlier, that game is f@kked.
    Sure you can do some shitty cheapo fix with glue. It’ll look like garbage and will never sit right or be solid again.
    You paid for COLLECTOR QUALITY. That’s gonna be 3k EASY to repair it back to CQ.

    One more thing: don’t get upset at the suggestions you should have refused. You SHOULD have. The whole question of “oh but I will be out a game and the money” is bunk. The seller will be returned the refused game and then it’s sellers problem to rip his hair out and fight the company for the next year to get damages paid out. If you refused this you would have been refunded. No ifs, ands, or buts. Then you wouldn’t be here upset, you would buy another game and live happily while someone else deals with this nightmare.

    This is a hard situation to understand and in this situation it wasn’t your fault since you weren’t home, but future reference. It’s better to refuse and sleep easy than to accept and get reamed by the shipping company.

    #49 5 months ago

    Just wanted to pop in here and note that I do not provide shipping damage estimates.
    The shipping companies want all types of official documentation on company letterhead invoices with line by line itemization etc.
    Those things take too much time and effort to justify unless the game is actually here to be repaired.

    #50 5 months ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    Just wanted to pop in here and note that I do not provide shipping damage estimates.
    The shipping companies want all types of official documentation on company letterhead invoices with line by line itemization etc.
    Those things take too much time and effort to justify unless the game is actually here to be repaired.

    I wasn’t planning on asking you for anything! This game isn’t worth that type of restoration.

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