(Topic ID: 182780)

Collecting and playing pinball - The rift has widened


By agodfrey

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 138 posts
  • 56 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by arcademojo
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 137 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
#102 2 years ago

This thread just went sideways...

#103 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

OK, let's rank the hobbyists!
1. Players With Skills - just like me (shocker!). Yes, I am the best kind of hobbyist, of course - I started buying games because I love playing, I'm a good player, and I have the skills to refurbish both EM and Digital games, and I love both kinds. I'm not anal and I don't get off on how "mint" your cheesy cookie cutter collection is. Truly, I am the standard by which all other hobbyists should be judged. An interesting collection of games that play well is what I consider an impressive collection.
2. Restorers - I gotta admit, I have mad respect for those with the patience and skills to restore games to like new. It's just not something I could fathom doing.
3. Collectors with no money (or money and taste) and some skills - I respect these guys because they don't get caught up in the rat race, and realize that a collection with some EMs, a High Speed, and a Black Rose are just as good as anybody else's. You aren't afraid to get your hands dirty and work on a game. You can't play but hey we can't all be me.
4. Collectors with money and skills. Your collection is boring and cookie cutter but at least you can fix your own games. Maybe you can't play too well either but hey we can't all be me.
5. Collectors with money and no skills. Ok, we are getting lame territory here. Great, you are a newbie with money. You can't play for shit, you can't maintain or work on your own games. You are just buying games and basing your "taste" on the pinside 100. Consumption and showing off as a hobby, and very little curiosity about the game, its history, or a collection beyond the "big names."
There's plenty of room in between all these things but it's my basic holier-than-thou sliding scale.
How about you guys? Let's get pretentious up in here!

Yes, fairly accurate list in hindsight. My tip don't belong to number two and number four if you choose to actively participate on any local Australian forums run with any perceived conflicting commercial interests from those in positions of authority.

This last group I added largely pertains to Australia, but still remains relevant in terms of broader principles applicable to the hobby itself.

6. Cliquers - geographically blinkered with a limited in group social circle. Thinks having a pinball meet in a private residence back yard with the same six attendees after 5 years is a sign the hobby is alive and well. Creates an artificially high barrier for all new entrants to the hobby leading to stagnation. Plays round robin equivalent with pinball machine ownership simply swapping them back and forth within the circle to maintain the bubble perception of value and inflated pricing. Acts defensive and hostile to anyone who tries to offer outside perspective and advance the hobby to encourage expansion, but ironically predominantly sycophantic and servile in nature when faced with a false authority figure based on spurious arbitrary criteria (the Darksoul/Arcade King paradox).

An ideological handicap that is holding back the hobby from growth in Australia and one of the reasons that the best pinball event in Australia is held in New Zealand.

#104 2 years ago
Quoted from pinsanity:

6. Cliquers - geographically blinkered with a limited in group

One would think that pinball would be a lot more of a social (socially open) hobby if for no other reason than statistically pinheads are deviants... in terms of society as a whole. Pinball isn't an everyday, household hobby everywhere so it would seem that pinheads would be more socially accepting of each other.

Outside of my new league I sadly haven't found that to be the case. Maybe I'm into pinball for the wrong reasons.

#105 2 years ago

I was moderated out of this thread for a comment I made regarding the pic that Adam posted. I just want to clarify that when I called him "ugly as sin" it was an inside joke and referenced a comment he made to me on a Twitch stream I had done the other night.

Apparently several people had reported my post to just wanted to put it into context.

the attach pic is a still from the comment on my stream.
Screen Shot 2017-03-04 at 9.19.31 PM (resized).png

#106 2 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

One would think that pinball would be a lot more of a social (socially open) hobby if for no other reason than statistically pinheads are deviants... in terms of society as a whole. Pinball isn't an everyday, household hobby everywhere so it would seem that pinheads would be more socially accepting of each other.
Outside of my new league I sadly haven't found that to be the case. Maybe I'm into pinball for the wrong reasons.

I see this more than I would have thought. The ones I meet are not very open to a new person entering there group. It seem like they think your out to get them for some reason. I'm sure this is not everyone but it still doesn't change the fact. I seem to enjoy the hobby by myself for this reason. Maybe I'm not meeting the right people.

#107 2 years ago
Quoted from codered9394:

The ones I meet are not very open to a new person entering there group.

Depending on the group. It can be tough. If they already have a group and meet in each others homes. Not every home can hold 100 people. So some groups do have to limit people.

If that is the case, time to start a new group.

LTG : )

#108 2 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

One would think that pinball would be a lot more of a social (socially open) hobby if for no other reason than statistically pinheads are deviants... in terms of society as a whole. Pinball isn't an everyday, household hobby everywhere so it would seem that pinheads would be more socially accepting of each other.
Outside of my new league I sadly haven't found that to be the case. Maybe I'm into pinball for the wrong reasons.

I have to agree. My experience has been that when I meet pinheads in real life the experience has been very positive, but there is more people with attitudes than I would have ever imagined on this forum. I would say that it's because it's the internet but that's not true because I'm on motorcycle and gun forums and everyone for the most part seems to get along real well. There are some really great and helpful people on this forum though for sure so don't get me wrong, just way too many smartazzes with big egos. Pinball is such a fun and sociable hobby that it seems like practically everyone would be nice and helpful toward others.

#109 2 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I have to agree. My experience has been that when I meet pinheads in real life the experience has been very positive, but there is more people with attitudes than I would have ever imagined on this forum. I would say that it's because it's the internet but that's not true because I'm on motorcycle and gun forums and everyone for the most part seems to get along real well. There are some really great and helpful people on this forum though for sure so don't get me wrong, just way too many smartazzes with big egos. Pinball is such a fun and sociable hobby that it seems like practically everyone would be nice and helpful toward others.

I've been in the hobby for 17 years and most everyone is awesome. Have bought many games and have been invited back to play. Have sold many games and have been invited back to their house to check out their collection. I've even invited myself over to complete strangers houses and have been welcome with open arms. Most people with $10k-$100k in pinball machines like to show off their collections to someone vetted who knows what they're talking about and respects their time.

#110 2 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Depending on the group. It can be tough. If they already have a group and meet in each others homes. Not every home can hold 100 people. So some groups do have to limit people.
If that is the case, time to start a new group.
LTG : )

Totally understandable having to restrict numbers due to the size of the venue, unfortunately the underlying motivations we have here in Australia are far more devious and self serving.

We had a "public" expo here a couple of years ago held in a large commercial venue of which two of the three organisers were members of one of our two domestic pinball forums. The organisers opted to deny ticket sales to the other forum for the nine months leading up to the event and only made them available in the final week prior which by then was too late to purchase for anyone who needed to make travel arrangements. Just to make a political point scoring statement.

Having been to the US a number of times and attended public pinball events held there I cannot even fathom such ridiculous antics being played out by those hobbyist organisers.

And yes, despite having a much smaller userbase than the US, we had to out of necessity establish a second domestic forum when commercial interests took over the first one and users were (and still are) effectively censored from being able to review/critique sponsor's product.

Quoted from Who-Dey:

I have to agree. My experience has been that when I meet pinheads in real life the experience has been very positive, but there is more people with attitudes than I would have ever imagined on this forum.

The problem we have in Australia is that it is a very limited online userbase whose upper echelon members at an online level are more interested in promoting themselves and maintaining a hierarchy based on arbitrary criteria rather than the broader hobby itself. And far too often those online members bring their ideological baggage into a real life situation to the hobby's detriment.

Imagine trying to sell a pinball machine to a buyer and listening to their argument that it is only worth X amount because that's what the purple circle on our local forum AussieArcade said it is worth (despite the machine not being publicly listed).

Some of the drones down here are so insular and doggedly loyal to the local forum they are completely out of touch with the reality of the open pinball market.

#111 2 years ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

most everyone is awesome.

I agree with this... only twice in years have I run into a few dishonest low-lifes in this hobby... both involved buying games where the sellers were not forthright or (especially in one case) outright lied. But, I've learned my lesson(s) and take responsibility for getting ripped off.

#112 2 years ago
Quoted from Mfsrc791:

You know, I'm not a fan or categorizing people into groups. It seems too highschoolish. Jocks stoners nerds ect. I thought these would end when I got older but I guess even older people do it too. I probably fit into the number 5 category but I'm trying and learning how to fix games myself so maybe not so much. Why do people like to put others in groups or catagories and make up descriptions of them? Seems childish...

Why not?

We rank everything else around here.

I can find common ground with anybody who is into pinball. I just don't care about how mint your cactus canyon is bro.

And I guess that's part of it. Some people really just want to talk about how much money they spent, how "mint" their stuff is, and the sheer volume of tacky mods they've installed. I usually try to steer the convo into what games they like to play and why they like them but sometimes it's just hopeless.

#113 2 years ago

i notice the original thread title has been restored, and some of the posts the OP blanked out by editing have been restored. was that a moderator move? edit: never mind, just noticed the moderator comment! definitely appropriate in this case.

#114 2 years ago

Is "can't wait for the purge" the next "10K by Christmas?"

I know it wasn't the intention but I don't think that declaration really helped this place out any.

#115 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Is "can't wait for the purge" the next "10K by Christmas?"

It's right up there with "glad for the ignore feature".

If a person is not ready for responses to his own negative postings, maybe he should think twice before he posts them.

#116 2 years ago

Maybe this was Capt Kirk having another meltdown?

#117 2 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

Maybe this was Capt Kirk having another meltdown?

Was he bullied as a child too?

#118 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Why not?
We rank everything else around here.
I can find common ground with anybody who is into pinball. I just don't care about how mint your cactus canyon is bro.
And I guess that's part of it. Some people really just want to talk about how much money they spent, how "mint" their stuff is, and the sheer volume of tacky mods they've installed. I usually try to steer the convo into what games they like to play and why they like them but sometimes it's just hopeless.

It shouldnt be called "ranking" you can't really rank people with what catagory they are in. Anyways, it just seems like there is a lot more to people thank a few catagories in which they fit into. With you saying you are the "best" type of hobbyist you come across as self centered IMO. Maybe it was said jokingly but idk. These are just some of the reasons I stay off social media

#119 2 years ago

I am a player. I have a few games at home. Why? Because I like to play. If you own games but never play them.i don't understand the thinking on that.
Pinball machines are meant to be played.

#120 2 years ago
Quoted from mrgone:

I am a player. I have a few games at home. Why? Because I like to play. If you own games but never play them.i don't understand the thinking on that.
Pinball machines are meant to be played.

But they can be appreciated for numerous levels outside of playing them; artwork, mechanics, rarity are all things that can be appreciated without flipping the game on.

I'm on your side of the fence but certainly understand aspects of the collector mindset.

#121 2 years ago

Well, i am atm where OP was in the start of his career, getting broken cheap-ass games and fixing them up (since i cant afford the prices for OK looking working ones here in Sweden, being a student again for the moment atleast...) and then play them until i sell/trade them off for another one.

Then again i kinda slid into this hobby by accident, if i hadnt gotten a tired Grand Lizard for my Hang-On, i would still never gotten into pinballs, so i got used to be cleaning and fixing games right from the start

#122 2 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

i notice the original thread title has been restored, and some of the posts the OP blanked out by editing have been restored. was that a moderator move? edit: never mind, just noticed the moderator comment! definitely appropriate in this case.

Looks like the OP took exception to being moderated...He's now listed as "inactive."

I've read this thread three times and I swear I can't see how he was offended.

#123 2 years ago
Quoted from PismoArcade:

Looks like the OP took exception to being moderated...He's now listed as "inactive."
I've read this thread three times and I swear I can't see how he was offended.

Bummer to see that inactive tag... his podcast was fun to listen to when it was around...and he's contributed some good streaming of his WOZ.

Man. Pinside apparently got the best of another member.

#124 2 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Bummer to see that inactive tag... his podcast was fun to listen to when it was around...and he's contributed some good streaming of his WOZ.

It's a shame because now there will only be 38 other pinball podcasts to listen to.

#125 2 years ago
Quoted from PismoArcade:

Looks like the OP took exception to being moderated...He's now listed as "inactive."
I've read this thread three times and I swear I can't see how he was offended.

It happens...people get burned out and just have to take a break.

EDIT: Oh but the short version is odin

11
#126 2 years ago

I think there's room for diversity in pinball. It shouldn't matter if you hoard them or fix them or are lucky enough to just own and play them. Nor should your playing ability be a factor.

I don't think there's room on the other hand for making those who don't collect or enjoy pinball for the same reasons you do, or those that you 'approve' as legitimate. That just seems toxic and counter productive to the hobby overall.

I'm personally a horrible player, and owning a pinball machine is only possible if I can fix it, so that means for me at least, I'm the proud owner of two inexpensive non-working machines. I look forward to getting to the point I can fix both myself and in time become a better player with practice.

That said, its really not the type of collector or their focus or ability that's the issue, its people and their personalities that are more likely to be at the root of any disagreement, and that's a problem no matter the hobby or interest level.

Pinball's a great hobby, more power and welcome to anyone interested, IMO.

#127 2 years ago
Quoted from VacFink:

I think there's room for diversity in pinball. It shouldn't matter if you hoard them or fix them or are lucky enough to just own and play them. Nor should your playing ability be a factor.
I don't think there's room on the other hand for making those who don't collect or enjoy pinball for the same reasons you do, or those that you 'approve' as legitimate. That just seems toxic and counter productive to the hobby overall.
I'm personally a horrible player, and owning a pinball machine is only possible if I can fix it, so that means for me at least, I'm the proud owner of two inexpensive non-working machines. I look forward to getting to the point I can fix both myself and in time become a better player with practice.
That said, its really not the type of collector or their focus or ability that's the issue, its people and their personalities that are more likely to be at the root of any disagreement, and that's a problem no matter the hobby or interest level.
Pinball's a great hobby, more power and welcome to anyone interested, IMO.

Well put VacFink.

#128 2 years ago
Quoted from PismoArcade:

Looks like the OP took exception to being moderated...He's now listed as "inactive."
I've read this thread three times and I swear I can't see how he was offended.

I can't figure it out either. I couldn't even tell where the moderation was. If he got mad at Odin for some reason that seems kind of petty to go inactive for.

I've met the OP. Bought a game from him. He's pretty nice and I thought the discussion in this thread was pretty good until the OP laid on his sword for some unknown reason. Oh well...

#129 2 years ago
Quoted from pinsanity:

The problem we have in Australia is that it is a very limited online userbase whose upper echelon members at an online level are more interested in promoting themselves and maintaining a hierarchy based on arbitrary criteria rather than the broader hobby itself. And far too often those online members bring their ideological baggage into a real life situation to the hobby's detriment.
Imagine trying to sell a pinball machine to a buyer and listening to their argument that it is only worth X amount because that's what the purple circle on our local forum AussieArcade said it is worth (despite the machine not being publicly listed).
Some of the drones down here are so insular and doggedly loyal to the local forum they are completely out of touch with the reality of the open pinball market.

I spent some time on the Aussie forums several years back because it was the only place that Wayne G would pop up on during the time he was looking at the big pile of deposit money people had given him for MMr v1.0 and wondering how he was actually going to build a pinball machine. Tried to play nice and abide by their rules, but finally I realized that over-moderation had turned it in the electronic equivalent of a baby's crib, complete with the bumper pads around the sides. Their need for civility had eventually driven off anyone with an actual dissenting opinion.

#130 2 years ago
Quoted from viper001:

I spent some time on the Aussie forums several years back because it was the only place that Wayne G would pop up on during the time he was looking at the big pile of deposit money people had given him for MMr v1.0 and wondering how he was actually going to build a pinball machine. Tried to play nice and abide by their rules, but finally I realized that over-moderation had turned it in the electronic equivalent of a baby's crib, complete with the bumper pads around the sides. Their need for civility had eventually driven off anyone with an actual dissenting opinion.

This is what is going to happen here. The problem is that there is nowhere else to go. RGP is gone, reduced to a garbage Google platform. You cannot make people play nice. There will always be friction between people and conversations, even civil ones, go off topic and moderating them to stay on topic seems ridiculous. The only thing here that irritates me is the ridiculous social justice warriors that take up everyone's cause without being asked and become a royal pain in the ass about it. But in the end it is Robins sight and we have to play by his rules and again, there is nowhere else to go.

#131 2 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

I couldn't even tell where the moderation was.

"(-Original topic title and content restored by moderator: please do not alter the complete content of a topic / opening post once a topic is actively being posted to-) "

I believe the OP deleted/changed the name of the thread and tried to remove himself/posts and Mods wiped out what he did, after that he went inactive. I can see getting upset by it.

#132 2 years ago

I collect pinballs so friends and myself can play them. I know, strange concept.

#133 2 years ago

Why are some people allowed to change their mind and edit away their posts after they've had time to reflect, but others are forced to keep their posts up, to the point of a moderator actually re-posting on their behalf?

#134 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Why are some people allowed to change their mind and edit away their posts after they've had time to reflect, but others are forced to keep their posts up, to the point of a moderator actually re-posting on their behalf?

I can kind of see it for a thread title...but you're own posts does seem very strange.

#135 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

"(-Original topic title and content restored by moderator: please do not alter the complete content of a topic / opening post once a topic is actively being posted to-) "
I believe the OP deleted/changed the name of the thread and tried to remove himself/posts and Mods wiped out what he did, after that he went inactive. I can see getting upset by it.

He made himself inactive when he wiped the thread title and his posts, before the mods restored them. He didn't quit as a result of mod action, he quit as part of his weird meltdown.

#136 2 years ago
Quoted from viper001:

I spent some time on the Aussie forums several years back because it was the only place that Wayne G would pop up on during the time he was looking at the big pile of deposit money people had given him for MMr v1.0 and wondering how he was actually going to build a pinball machine. Tried to play nice and abide by their rules, but finally I realized that over-moderation had turned it in the electronic equivalent of a baby's crib, complete with the bumper pads around the sides. Their need for civility had eventually driven off anyone with an actual dissenting opinion.

I remember your quite reasonable posts and raising of legitimate concerns at the time KW, and the over the top reaction from the "leadership" trying to protect their at that time commercial interests. Nothing has changed on AA in the intervening years and if anything the forum has become far more geograhically parochial, insular and revenue hungry so that the emphasis is now on sponsor protectionism revolving around the Administrators home Australian state of Queensland and forcing new members to pay for access to even view the locked down and hidden trading section as an added source of revenue generation.

I have absolute faith in pinside that ultimately the right decisions will be made to move pinside forum growth forward since the online userbase here is far more diverse and culturally aware than what we have here in Australia. Whilst pinside's moderator recruitment process was clearly focussed with diversity in mind and based on merit, skills and experience, the process on AA clearly had nepotism at the forefront and with placing persons in positions of online authority which on face value were quite obviously well beyond their real life skillset.

stooges (resized).jpg

Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

I collect pinballs so friends and myself can play them. I know, strange concept.

And that simple yet generous philosophical concept is why NZ has a far superior and successful pinball hobbyist base in terms of public events and attracting new members than anything in Australia can achieve on a per capita basis despite having a fraction of our population.

AussieArcade as a supposedly equal representative forum is both a misnomer and an embarrassment to Australia in terms of hobby growth.

I said this in another thread that the best pinball event held in our region is the NZ Pincade because the organisers from the top down have ensured that it remains apolitical. That is the key to their success leading to the outcome that they can attract players from all over the world to attend.

#137 2 years ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

I collect pinballs so friends and myself can play them. I know, strange concept.

You collect pins!!! Oh the horror! No one should have more then 3.
Seriously though. I'm in the same boat with you. Don't care if people are players, collectors, newbie's, league plays, moders, restorers, or what ever else is left. Don't matter to me. I collect because I can and gives other people that can't a chance to play the games I own that they would never have a chance to play.

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