(Topic ID: 257469)

Cold Storage


By Md2020

3 months ago



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  • 32 posts
  • 18 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by edednedy
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 months ago

Try as I might, my 900 some-odd square foot house literally has no room for the pin. Kid, wife etc... I put a 55w incandescent in the back of the box.
Will this fly for the playfield and backglass?
I’m in Washington state, near Seattle.
Ive done the reading, heard about the reptile heaters what have you.
I heat the garage up with a portable heater when I’m out here (built in thermostat ain’t worth a damn).
Is this lightbulb the best thing I can do under the circumstances? Should I not heat the garage at all if I’m not consistent about it?
First pin, I’ve put a lot of work into it, playfield isn’t perfect, but it’s not terrible.
Thanks everyone!

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#2 3 months ago

I'm just up the coast in the Fraser Valley, I've had no choice but to store games in unheated barns and garages for years, only problems I've ever had is where moisture became a problem, otherwise we don't get cold enough. Just try to avoid any rapid changes in temp or humidity and you should be fine.

#3 3 months ago

Your halfway there with that bulb. An old farmers trick was to put a coffee can over a 100 watt bulb to keep the hen house warm during winter. It technically could work the same for a pin.

15
#4 3 months ago

Id at least bring the backglass inside.

#5 3 months ago

I keep most of my EM machines in an insulated but unheated building (Ohio). It can get pretty cold some days. Temperature is usually not the problem, moisture is. Cold air is generally drier than warm air. I have a lot more problems with moisture in the summer and often need to run a dehumidifier. So I would say if your not taking any special precautions with it in the summer, it should be fine in the winter.

Some might say that problems arise when the hot bulbs meet the cold glass. I don't play them much in the winter. I wouldn't leave them on for five hours straight but I've never had any issues playing a game or two and then turning it off.

#6 3 months ago

Look online for a piano dehumidifier or dehumidifier rod. These are plug-in metal tubes that get warm and are available in various sizes and watts. Maybe get 2; plug them both in for the dead of winter and keep the other plugged in for the summertime.

I never put one of these in a pinball, but did keep one in my piano in the basement. The darn thing worked for years and years!!!!!! It sat on the wood in the bottom of my piano without issues, but I would suggest securing it in a pinball machine so there was no issue with it contacting anything.

#7 3 months ago

Keep an eye on the temperature in the cabinet. You'd be surprised how much heat a (55W / 60W) bulb can generate. Also, I'd be a bit concerned about the localized heat right around the bulb. It's going to be a lot hotter directly over the bulb compared with the outside corners. You might want to experiment with keeping the coin door cracked a bit to get some air flow and even out the heat.

#8 3 months ago

Moisture and humidity are your enemies. Rapid temperature change can induce the circumstances. But the majority of the time as long as you don’t have the back glass in the elements you will be fine. During significant temperature changes there is always the chance of inserts expanding and contracting at different rates than the wood play field. And thus resulting in loosening either up or down. I live in Vermont where winter in January and February are consistently below freezing. And yet I have purchased machines that have been in peoples uninsulated and unheated Garages for years with no apparent consequences. If you can protect it from the cold great, but if not I wouldn’t worry too much especially in your area.

Thanks
Blake

#9 3 months ago

I guess you don't have a usable basement?

My house is a hair over 1000 sq. ft with a full basement, subtract out the mechanical stuff down there and I've probably got about 900 sq ft. for pins, whatever.

Can you make part of the garage 'part of the house'? i.e. put up a wall and extend your heating/cooling out to it? (2 car garage to 1 car).

#10 3 months ago

That one is in much nicer shape than ours (especially the glass) so I’d try and keep it as safe as possible. I agree that it would be a good idea to get the backbox inside the house.

I dint see the benefit of the bulb in the bottom box unless you’re worried about dampness. I’m that case, use the damp rid stuff or equivalent that is used for boat and RV storage. Too much risk of fire or something with a bulb.

#11 3 months ago

I've had machines in non-climate controlled storage for years. Temperatures ranged from freezing to over 100F degrees, and I've had no problems with the machines.

If it's just short term storage or you've set up the machine in a non-climate controlled area, just place a few blankets over the machine and this will give it enough protection when it's not being used. The light bulb idea is interesting, but I don't think it will protect the machine that much. Also, remember that backglass paint does not like extremely quick temperature changes. So, moving a machine from a warm house to a very cold garage is not good for the backglass.

For long term storage, some collectors will wrap the machine in blankets and stretch wrap. If the machine is not wrapped, then it's a good idea to remove the rubber rings and game ball(s) from the machine to protect them from the hot and cold cycles. For Gottlieb EM games, if they still have those evil black pads on the backglass or on the light board insert, remove the backglass and put it in a climate controlled storage. Those black pads can discolor the backglass paint when they're exposed to repeated hot and cold cycles.

And, of course, keep the machine away from sunlight...

#12 3 months ago

So I did a bunch of reading, and I went ahead with the Triple Thick Route.
Ffs, I hope I didn’t blow it.
There’s some “orange peeling” texture going on.
I watched about 4 videos on how people did it and tried to do it somewhere in between.
Anybody familiar with this? Is this bad? Lol.
There was flaking, and when I removed the backglass, it seemed to exacerbate the condition.
These photos taken right after the second coat

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#13 3 months ago

The orange peeling happens sometimes. Let it fully dry and give it another coat and let that dry. Bring the glass inside and store it under a couch or someplace safe that wont move. As suggested above, you can fold the game up and cover with some blankets- If there is a Harbor Freight near you they often times have the 'moving blankets' on sale for cheap and they make a nice cover/wrap for games for your situation. Your machine will be ok as long as you don't keep it out there for 10+ years with no protection. It has prolly seen worse in a bar.

#14 3 months ago

Not uncommon... lots of dirt and grime buildup on backglasses that is extremely hard to remove without further damaging the inks and adhesion... it's risky trying to clean a backglass prior to clearcoating... I think what you have done is par for a 70s EM... I've done a few that look similar.

#15 3 months ago

I’m just hoping I didn’t ruin it by doing the triple thick. I panicked when I saw the little paint flakes coming off, so I got a little ambitious.

#16 3 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

I guess you don't have a usable basement?
My house is a hair over 1000 sq. ft with a full basement, subtract out the mechanical stuff down there and I've probably got about 900 sq ft. for pins, whatever.
Can you make part of the garage 'part of the house'? i.e. put up a wall and extend your heating/cooling out to it? (2 car garage to 1 car).

There’s an upstairs bedroom, but my wife’s got dibs on that. I built a “recording studio” in the attached garage, so that’s spoken for. I have a Hammond EM organ and Leslie that’s taking up a lot of space. The only way I’d be able to get a pin in there would be to get rid of that.
I’m already debating on that idea.
To be clear, even with the triple thick on the backglass, I should not have it in the pin if I’m going to be using it, correct? I’ve been playing the machine daily out in the detached garage, but I do not want to ruin it if I can help it

#17 3 months ago

Play the crap out of it. That’s what it’s for!

#18 3 months ago

That backglass looks good to me
I sprayed ours just before the weather turned cold.
I saved some of the peeling spots, but others were too far gone. I think that I’ve at least stopped further damage. Now I’m on the hunt for a donor glass.

#19 3 months ago

So you guys are saying it should be ok installed on the machine? Maybe I could give it a couple days for the TT to cure and then reinstall it.
I hate pulling the glass on and off unnecessarily, feels like I’m disarming a bomb lol.
I play it every day and it looks much better with the glass on there.
I’ve just read horror stories about glass, TT, and cold weather so I wasn’t sure what I should or shouldn’t do

#20 3 months ago

I don't use Triple Thick, so I can't speak to that, but don't believe all the horror stories you read about cold storage. There's no evil demon inside cold air that is set to destroy your backglass. I live in an area that can get pretty darn cold and my machines have survived for 25 years.

The evil demon - Moisture - lurks inside warm air. OK, maybe not so much in the Arizona desert but certainly in Ohio.

Cold air is drier. When you add warm moist air to it, the moisture will be drawn out and cause condensation. Just like it can do to the windows in your house. Rapid, repeated temperature changes can cause moisture problems.

The other problem is expansion and contraction rates of dissimilar material. In this case screen printing ink and glass. If they don't expand and contract at the same rate cracking ink can occur. This is minimized by slowing temperature fluctuation. In my case the temperature changes gradually with the seasons.

I don't play them much in the winter, but I have turned them on, played 2 or 3 games and turned them off to no ill effects. If you're really worried about heat from the bulbs affecting the glass you could always switch them all to #47 bulbs or, better yet LED's.

#21 3 months ago

Put the 55W bulb in lower cabinet, it will keep the whole game dry since the heat will rise up to the backbox. That is a common trick with operators that run their games on the bus with travelling circus.

#22 3 months ago
Quoted from Md2020:

There’s some “orange peeling” texture going on.
I watched about 4 videos on how people did it and tried to do it somewhere in between.
Is this bad? These photos taken right after the second coat

It isn't bad.

The orange peel appears to indicate the paint reacted to a contaminant on the back side of the glass.

To me, when you use TT, you want to apply it heavy enough, enough coats, so that it floats flat in the clear areas. If you can see any texture in the paint over the windows you could use another coat.

For the areas away from the windows, 3 coats or more should be adequate.

#23 3 months ago

Thanks for the tip. I masked off the bare glass for the score windows so I didn’t have to risk damage by scraping it off.
When I get back home today, I’m going to check to see if it’s “level” with the score windows or not.
In all, I think I put 1 light initial coat, 2 “heavier coats” followed by 1 panicked light coat

#24 3 months ago
Quoted from edednedy:

I don't use Triple Thick, so I can't speak to that, but don't believe all the horror stories you read about cold storage. There's no evil demon inside cold air that is set to destroy your backglass. I live in an area that can get pretty darn cold and my machines have survived for 25 years.
The evil demon - Moisture - lurks inside warm air. OK, maybe not so much in the Arizona desert but certainly in Ohio.
Cold air is drier. When you add warm moist air to it, the moisture will be drawn out and cause condensation. Just like it can do to the windows in your house. Rapid, repeated temperature changes can cause moisture problems.
The other problem is expansion and contraction rates of dissimilar material. In this case screen printing ink and glass. If they don't expand and contract at the same rate cracking ink can occur. This is minimized by slowing temperature fluctuation. In my case the temperature changes gradually with the seasons.
I don't play them much in the winter, but I have turned them on, played 2 or 3 games and turned them off to no ill effects. If you're really worried about heat from the bulbs affecting the glass you could always switch them all to #47 bulbs or, better yet LED's.

I ordered 20 led’s to get started with the backglass.
I ordered one box of 10 for the playfield. I’m going to clean each socket as I install

#25 3 months ago

Well crap. I noticed stuff coming up, so I sprayed it again. Now I see more stuff coming up. I may have essentially destroyed this back glass

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#26 3 months ago

All the areas where the “orange peeling” is occurring seem to be where the paint lifting has/will occur.
Help!

#27 3 months ago

bgresto.com will repair or copy your backglass

#28 3 months ago
Quoted from Md2020:

All the areas where the “orange peeling” is occurring seem to be where the paint lifting has/will occur.
Help!

Likely you sprayed too thick of a coat and it's lifting where the original ink had weak adhesion.... as it's drying it's shrinking slightly and that's what's pulling up the ink.

The key to triple thicking is thin coats to start and after the triple thick has sealed the glass, then the thick coat if you feel it needs it. Because of the risk of what's happening to yours, I no longer triple thick backglasses that are in decent shape to start with.

#29 3 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

Likely you sprayed too thick of a coat and it's lifting where the original ink had weak adhesion.... as it's drying it's shrinking slightly and that's what's pulling up the ink.
The key to triple thicking is thin coats to start and after the triple thick has sealed the glass, then the thick coat if you feel it needs it. Because of the risk of what's happening to yours, I no longer triple thick backglasses that are in decent shape to start with.

At this point, I think the best possible thing I could do would be to get the LEDS for the backglass, install it, and leave it alone.
I tried to save it and failed miserably. If there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s to leave the old back glasses alone.
With the way the TT responded when I sprayed it, it reminded me of what spray paint does when it’s applied to a “dirty” surface.
There’s no way I would’ve had the balls to clean the surface first, although in hindsight I should have taken my time and tried.
I had a hard time going to sleep last night because of this, and this is going to be one of those things that will likely bother me until the day I die lol. I hate it when shit like this happens. It’s always when I panic trying to save something

#30 3 months ago

Chalk it up as a learning experience. We've all had our mistakes that cost us something, whether it was time or money. You won't make the same mistake twice, and you may save someone else from doing the same. Kudos to you for having the intestinal fortitude to share it with us!

#31 3 months ago

I can't speak to the use of triple thick, but I'd highly recommend you remove the backglass if it is going to get near or below freezing where your machine is kept.

As an example, I kept an older pin in my garage over the winter (in the Midwest) several years back that I was not using and left the backglass in place. When spring came, I turned it on and tested the machine. I found that it worked 100% without any issues in function or appearance. However, the backglass wasn't as lucky. Apparently, the art fully separated from the glass and effectively turned into many, many pieces. Only 10% of the art remained.

If I only took this piece off and stored it in the house, the machine would be have remained perfect. Lesson learned.

#32 3 months ago

KrustyBurger, If you lost 90% of your backglass in one winter, I think there was more at play than just cold storage.
I've had machines in cold storage for 25+ years. I've had outside temperatures that have dipped well below zero and periods where it never got out of the teens for a week or more and I've never experienced anything like that.

Could it have been sealed with something like "Cover Your Glass" that Steve Young used to sell?

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