Cointaker's lack of professionalism

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#1 10 years ago

OP

JDS

judremy

Pinside member

Farmington Hills, MI

13y 67,800 2,213 5 8

I don't post much, but recently purchased some LEDs from Pinballbulbs.com. I thought they were great and it was nice to have another alternative to pinballlife and cointaker.com. Unfortunately, there were others who did NOT seem to think so. I am including some posts here from the pinballbulbs thread as to not derail it further.

Several times, BLACK_ROSE came into the thread to insult pinballbulbs and accuse them of stealing the designs from cointaker. It is fine to support a company, but when that becomes accusations and CUSTOMER INFORMATION from cointaker starts coming out, that is when it has crossed the line:

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/introducing-new-led-company-free-bulbs-pinside-discount/page/8#post-857453

Chris from Cointaker just told me -?- ordered 10 Premium Leds last-nite , Melissa sent -?- an Email back say-n " Call Chris Regarding this Order "

You Gonna send those to China too , and have those Copied also , huh ?

Melissa is Pissed , and She's Gonna be Pissed when she Reads this , but Chris said " Type it "
4 Years of Research & Designing these Leds to have someone Buy & Copy ..

Here's Ya Premium 2's

People then became concerned about this sharing of customer information regarding who was ordering. BLACK_ROSE then replied:

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/introducing-new-led-company-free-bulbs-pinside-discount/page/8#post-857609

Leak info ,,,,, I Have Stock in the CoinTaker Franchise .. Pinballbulbs you know yr<edited> , I'm Still wait-n to see what yr Flashers are gonna look like .. I haven't seen an Led from you that doesn't look like what I have in my Boxes on the Shelf..And to say Chris hasn't designed his Leds in BS .. China doesn't know what the PinHeads want .. Yr small business ,, Tyme will tell ..

Later, a cointaker rep DID come into the thread and no reassurances were given and (IMO) the claims to copying a design continued:

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/introducing-new-led-company-free-bulbs-pinside-discount/page/8#post-857916

Really guys...I just had a very good conversation with James at Pinballbulbs.com....we can co-exist....you have multiple vendors selling led bulbs... BR is not a representative of our company, however he is an extremely loyal customer/friend.... he really is a great guy just looking out for us. How do you get mad at that...(not how I would have handled it, but for any of you that personally know BR)...well enough said. BR considers Bulldog a compliment...lol...

I will however point out that as one pinsider stated that all bulbs are just ordered from China....Let me clarify...they may all or most of them come from overseas...however we at CoinTaker do travel abroad and meet with our manufacturer's....we also have developed our product to our specifications....yes, that means actual designs, etc...it took us 1 1/2 years to get our premiums just the way we wanted them...

Anyone that is in the business should understand that it is not easy when someone comes in and copies/duplicates/ or whatever you want to call it....even some going as far to call their bulbs the exact same name that we created for our bulbs...bring something new to the table...I am not going after the topper or mod business that some have created when I could very well do so...that is their niche and I respect that...all I ask is for the same respect/courtesy in the industry.

It almost sounds like they do not want any competition which is ridiculous. If the designs were really that big of a deal and cost that much time and money then there would be patents on them. And IF that is the case, then why not sue pinballbulbs?

Finally, another final post from cointaker stating that the information was NOT intended to be leaked. Yet, the moment you share it outside the company, YOU already leaked it.
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/introducing-new-led-company-free-bulbs-pinside-discount/page/8#post-858073

the information was not intended to be leaked...we were discussing it...never ever intended to be placed on this forum...if I wanted the name/info out here I would have posted the order myself and made a post about it...and no, I did not have BR do it for me....I have a mouth and mind of my own and I will use it when I want/need to....and I will and have apologized to markmon for this. I'm not very happy about this at all....I work too hard for my business to have this shit happen.

I suggest people go and look at that thread and keep it in mind when you place orders at a business that "didn't leak, but discusses" your information.

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#13 10 years ago

OP

JDS

judremy

Pinside member

Farmington Hills, MI

13y 67,800 2,213 5 8

I started this thread as the PinballBulbs one was being filled with this discussion and a moderator asked the discussion to be taken to another thread if people wanted to continue it. I personally found it unsettling that people were being called out on their orders from a company. You don't expect that kind of thing to happen as you EXPECT a company to keep the information to themselves and not share it with their friends who then come online and share it with the world. Sorry, if you are all OK with a company sharing YOUR info.

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#17 10 years ago

OP

JDS

judremy

Pinside member

Farmington Hills, MI

13y 67,800 2,213 5 8

Quoted from Gnatty:
Im glad you dont post here much because this post is garbage! Change you post title, that is rediculous! Cointaker is the best vendor to deal with as far as their professionalism, service and quality, find something better to do!

You read my post, sounds like YOU need something better to do. If they didn't act they way they did, there would not have been a post to make. Sorry I knocked your gods off their pedestal, but I didn't make them share info and I didn't make them post the claims they did. Their bad, not mine.

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#19 10 years ago

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JDS

judremy

Pinside member

Farmington Hills, MI

13y 67,800 2,213 5 8

Quoted from wdpvideo:
It's a LED order who cares if you know what I bought or didn't. Here I'll help you out. I bought a CFTBL kit from CT in Allentown. Oh my please keep that under wraps I would hate for the FBI pinball division to find out. Please let it go!

It's the principle of it. I'm not the one keeping the thread alive, you are by posting in it. If you want it to die, don't bump it.

Oh, and I'm not a slappy for pinballbulbs. I have LEDs from PinballLife, Cointaker, AND Pinballbulbs. They CAN all coexist.

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#21 10 years ago

OP

JDS

judremy

Pinside member

Farmington Hills, MI

13y 67,800 2,213 5 8

Quoted from gweempose:
I'm still a bit confused by B_R's comment,
"I Have Stock in the CoinTaker Franchise ..."
Is he an investor/owner?

He said that as a joke as to why he knew about markmon's order information. I think B_R is a good guy, but he got out of line and started (IMO) attacking pinballbulbs as soon as they posted on pinside.

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#24 10 years ago

OP

JDS

judremy

Pinside member

Farmington Hills, MI

13y 67,800 2,213 5 8

Quoted from bigehrl:
your missing the point man. noone's saying you're wrong, it's just that no one cares.

I care. Several people in the other thread cared, so I believe YOUR thesis is wrong.

Oh, there is a difference between YOUR and YOU'RE.

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#32 10 years ago

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JDS

judremy

Pinside member

Farmington Hills, MI

13y 67,800 2,213 5 8

At this point I am done with this. I posted the thread to remove the discussion from the other thread as a mod had requested. I also didn't like how the Cointaker rep acted towards competition with claims of copying (get an F-ing patent). I will try to get my LED needs fulfilled elsewhere, but I'm sure Cointaker will let you or B_R know if I order from them again.

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#33 10 years ago

OP

JDS

judremy

Pinside member

Farmington Hills, MI

13y 67,800 2,213 5 8

Quoted from Hellfire:
OMG another bashing thread how lame. Esp. Cointaker i can say ive always had a pleasant experience with them.
If you dont like them dont buy from them, better yet put in the time and design your own leds and put up the money to have them manufactured.
Honestly so what if they confirmed someones orders? Just about everyone with leds has cointakers its no secret seems you have nothing better to do than split hairs.
And as far as the copied leds well Cointaker is justified in being upset how would you like it if you had your designs copied and marked as your competition??
In the end the new guy is guilty of theft. If anything perhaps Cointaker should call their attorney.
And here you are talking smack about Cointaker being upset about someone stealing their designs, everyone her already knows Markmon and BR are Cointaker addicts even if Cointaker said nothing.
Perhaps you should get over it and get a life.

How is it bashing? Of course, you are being completely unbiased in your opinion. Oh wait, you aren't.

Everything posted is all based on fact and posted on the internet. This isn't a thread where I made crap up and flamed out anyone.

The PinballBulbs LEDs are DIFFERENT from Cointaker. Sorry, they both look like LEDs. I DID buy from Cointaker, but their lack of professionalism has driven me away.

Since you seem to have such a busy life, can you point me to where you got yours?

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#49 10 years ago

OP

JDS

judremy

Pinside member

Farmington Hills, MI

13y 67,800 2,213 5 8

Quoted from jpop:
CT supplies all our led needs, and yes we could go direct to a factory, but we partner and work together on new ideas and bulb types with them. Some coolness on the way! So we pay more but have the best people and engineers behind our products with a long track record.
Anyone would be miffed, mee too, if someone comes in late and grabs a proven design or pings the source to compete. But that's America and it make's the marketplace stronger. It takes time and money to do all this stuff and Chris and Mellisa have made a positive impact on pinball, and our games for sure. As have many "behind-the-scenes" suppliers. It's not just only about money, you need to have some ethics and integrity. What do you call a pinball company with no integrity? Jpop

I have a LOT of Cointaker LEDs and think they are great, but shouldn't they have patents on their designs? And if they do, I would think they would file a lawsuit and NOT take it to a public forum. Now, I know B_R started the talk, but they (the Cointaker rep) certainly didn't help in their responses. I hoped to see them say that they should not have discussed the information with B_R and will be sure to keep a lid on it in the future. No, instead they start up with accusations on pinballbulbs too. Sue them or shut up.

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#53 10 years ago

OP

JDS

judremy

Pinside member

Farmington Hills, MI

13y 67,800 2,213 5 8

Quoted from Hellfire:
Read the thread BR posted the details Cointaker did not post the information BR did, He is not part of the Cointaker company, how he knew well thats a good question but for all everyone knows Markmon could have mentioned elsewhere.
Dont be so eager to drag a companys name through the mud, Im not partial to any company but all the clowns here seem to be more woried about talking smack about a good company instead of their good reputation as business.
And yes look at the new guys bulbs they are almost identical reproductions of CT leds oh wait they didnt glue in the cover thats innovation!!

Once again, you need to learn to read. In the thread, Cointaker ADMITS they told B_R about markmon's order (which he wasn't thrilled about). Try reading next time before opening your mouth and inserting your foot.

You are DEFINITELY bias towards Cointaker or illiterate.

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#61 10 years ago

OP

JDS

judremy

Pinside member

Farmington Hills, MI

13y 67,800 2,213 5 8

Quoted from Hellfire:
Its funny judremy Melissa knew nothing about it how do you know Chric said anything to BR except BR saying it he could have just been saying that so still you are bashing if Chris admits it its a different story.

Since you STILL refuse to read the first post, I will add it here. From MELISSA:

the information was not intended to be leaked...we were discussing it...never ever intended to be placed on this forum...if I wanted the name/info out here I would have posted the order myself and made a post about it...and no, I did not have BR do it for me....I have a mouth and mind of my own and I will use it when I want/need to....and I will and have apologized to markmon for this. I'm not very happy about this at all....I work too hard for my business to have this shit happen.

She says "THEY WERE DISCUSSING IT!" Maybe you can SEE it this time.

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#63 10 years ago

OP

JDS

judremy

Pinside member

Farmington Hills, MI

13y 67,800 2,213 5 8

Quoted from Hellfire:
Well lets see phrases by the new competition "Same as Cointakers" same description and same style as cointakers in design sure seems like a copycat to me basicly a reverse engineered retro bulb in reality how is that not copying?
Ready the PBB early posts he was sending CT leds to china to have them copied a several months ago and inquiring here if people would be interested if he could have em made cheaper.
Cointaker is justified in being upset its not competion if someone steals your designs and markets them same as and beats your price with your own product.

No, it is patent or copyright infringement. IF they got that done. If they didn't, then shame on them and they have NO case. Boo-hoo.

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#87 10 years ago

OP

JDS

judremy

Pinside member

Farmington Hills, MI

13y 67,800 2,213 5 8

Quoted from Hellfire:
Well do what you want judremy Im still going to buy the originals you can indulge in the wannabees all you want.
Ive had my stuff copied here in the past having others take credit for it ive pulled alot of it and dont post alot here becouse of that. justify it how you want cointaker is the original with all these current leds.
Perhaps someone else will come in some day and replace your job and or products with a cheaper version
And ok perhaps BR might have overhead a conversation its still not Cointaker posting other peoples information BR is not part of the company.

I feel sorry for you. I really do. Did you have your stuff patented? Trademarked? Copyrights? If not, then that is your bad. Cointaker messed up, no doubt about it. Am I insulting their products? No. I think they are AWESOME. Am I insulting their business practices? Hell yeah! B_R didn't overhear SH*T, they told him.

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#90 10 years ago

OP

JDS

judremy

Pinside member

Farmington Hills, MI

13y 67,800 2,213 5 8

Quoted from pezpunk:
i don't think this is a troll thread at all. sharing customer information on a public forum is pretty unprofessional and should rightfully worry people.
that said, i've bought from cointaker before and had a good experience, and most people seem to think they do a good job. i'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt a little here. it sounds to me like they were gossiping with a friend about a competitor, and that friend is a loose cannon who decided to kick up a fuss on the internet over it. seems like more than a few people here would vouch for the integrity of the people at cointaker so i'm willing to believe they will be more careful in the future.
on the technical side, kudos to cointaker for doing the work in developing better and better pinball LEDs. unfortunately, one price of being first in a particular market is your competitors get to benefit from your R & D.
i have no idea who i'll buy from in the future ... let the best bulb win

They were gossiping with a friend about a CUSTOMER. That is where the problem is. I like their product, but I disagree with their business ethics.

To all those calling this a "bashing thread", at no point did I insult their products. The thread title is "Cointaker's lack of professionalism", not "Cointaker iz teh sukzzz".

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#94 10 years ago

OP

JDS

judremy

Pinside member

Farmington Hills, MI

13y 67,800 2,213 5 8

Quoted from starfighter:
Everybody makes mistakes so let's take it down a notch on the "business ethics" rhetoric and go with an "error in judgment" OK.

Really? From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_ethics

Business ethics (also corporate ethics) is a form of applied ethics or professional ethics that examines ethical principles and moral or ethical problems that arise in a business environment. It applies to all aspects of business conduct and is relevant to the conduct of individuals and entire organizations.

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#98 10 years ago

OP

JDS

judremy

Pinside member

Farmington Hills, MI

13y 67,800 2,213 5 8

Quoted from flynnibus:
You assume everything is able to be protected and it's CT's fault for not doing so. That's not really true... patents protect HOW you do something and it must be novel and non-obvious in itself. Trademark would be more about the visuals or art.. but again you must be unique to start.. copyright? Not even in the same universe.
The ship sailed on trying to patent the use of LED bulbs in a pinball machine long ago... the only thing they could protect is their technical designs if they were novel or non-obvious. Patents are expensive to process, slow, and then you still need to use legal action to enforce them. That's a high standard for a small business working on derivative technology.

Then Cointaker needs to win with their prices, their presentation (website), their delivery, and their reputation. That is what will keep them on top. Instances like this one hurt their reputation and they should HOPE it doesn't happen again as they seem bad at disaster recovery.