(Topic ID: 199244)

Coils locked on - Black Knight

By StratDoc

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 22 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by StratDoc
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 6 years ago

I have been doing a restore of a black knight. I have everything completed and reassembled the pin and the bottom two flipper coils lock on. This did not happen before stripping down the playfield. All coils worked fine. I did not remove the driver board, MPU board, or voltage regulator board. They were all working properly and did not need repair. I checked for shorts under the playfield and the flipper switches. Everything looks okay. Diodes on the coils are also okay.

Maybe the driver board? Seems odd since I did not remove it.

Checked q13 on driver board with multimeter and got a bad reading. Anything else I should checke?

Replace q13 coils are still locked on. Didn't notice before but drop target coils on top playfield also locked on.

Thanks as always to helpful Pinsiders.

#2 6 years ago

It should be impossible for the flippers to energize unless the flipper switches are closed or there's a short

#3 6 years ago

There are to be a short somewhere then. I edited my post to indicate drop targets on top left playfield also locking on.

#4 6 years ago

For the flipper to lock on without pressing the flipper buttons the short has to be between the cabinet switch and the coil. This wire will be shorted to ground somewhere.

#5 6 years ago

I think I am brain dead today.

I have continuity from the cabinet switch wires to the end of the molex connector that connects to back box. If I disconnect the molex connector the two lower flippers and top left drop targets lock on. If I am thinking correctly, the short must then be between the back box and the coils??? If I disconnect all of the solenoid connectors on the driver board the same coils still lock on. If I remove the fuses underneath the playfield the coils still lock on. The only way I can stop the coils from locking on is to disconnect J3 on the power supply.

#6 6 years ago

StratDoc I am experiencing the exact same problem on Williams Jungle Lord. I disassembled the cabinet to repair, did not remove the boards in the head and when I reassembled and turned on the upper and lower left flipper coils fire when the game is powered on. Also the left drop target coil energizes. I also disconnected all the solenoid connectors on the driver board but those coils are still firing. My game was playing fine before the disassembly.

#7 6 years ago

I have been checking continuity. I have continuity from the top to bottom playfield connector plugs and the lower playfield flippers.

I decided to disconnect everything from the backbox boards except for the voltage regulator board. When powered on the bottom left flipper locks on - right flipper and top left bank targets do not lock on.

#8 6 years ago

There are 2 large molex connectors for disconnecting the p/f on a High Speed, and they can be connected in reverse. Can this happen on a Black Knight also? When reversed it will cause a lot of damage to the boards so don't just reverse them to see if things are better.

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Can this happen on a Black Knight also?

Yes they can. The connectors are USUALLY one set white and one set dyed black but never go by connector color. Always check the WIRE colors to avoid damage.

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from Travish:

Yes they can. The connectors are USUALLY one set white and one set dyed black but never go by connector color. Always check the WIRE colors to avoid damage.

I think if you got then wrong that you'd have some smoke though... I assume the game is still booting if you take the coil fuse out?

Try disconnecting 8j3, and then find the flipper wires in those plugs, and check continuity of each side of the plug to ground to narrow the short to either the pf or the cabinet/boards

#11 6 years ago

Nothing smoked so I am hoping they are not reversed but will double check.

The coil fuse on the playfield or the voltage regulator? If I remove the fuses on the playfield the coils still lock on.

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

Nothing smoked so I am hoping they are not reversed but will double check.
The coil fuse on the playfield or the voltage regulator? If I remove the fuses on the playfield the coils still lock on.

Whichever fuse stops them from locking on, just so you can make sure it's booting properly without smoking your coils

#13 6 years ago

I ran into this same type of problem when trying to fix a Highspeed....It's been awhile and I can't remember what caused it. I have the game completely torn down right now...

I want to say it was something to do with a screw that was too long running through a switch on the playfield.Or a playfield screw that made two contacts....or something along those lines.

The previous owner ran a drywall screw through the leafs cutting through, making contact with all leafs, then it was too long on top of that and the end was touching a plate or pad.

I keep trying to think of what caused it to lock...but it's been a while...Not positive the screw caused that issue or another one... I know I'm not much help. But it's just something to keep an eye open for. That and coin door wires have caused funny things to happen to a machine for me. Stripped coin switch(?) wires that were twisted together were grounding on the frame. And one or two of the solenoids were acting funny. No clue why or how it caused it. But once those were fixed the coils worked again. That was on a 6803 game.

#14 6 years ago

So something is definitely fried. Removed the fuse for the flippers and the MPU board reads 0 with both leds lit. Best I can tell is that something on the board is toast and has locked it up. No displays working. Damn - worked like heck to get this ready to go and it was working fine prior to me stripping the board, etc. Closed the coin door and get the same reading.

Is this repairable? I have read that it is probably IC19 that has failed and maybe IC12 and IC7.

Thanks

#15 6 years ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

So something is definitely fried. Removed the fuse for the flippers and the MPU board reads 0 with both leds lit. Best I can tell is that something on the board is toast and has locked it up. No displays working. Damn - worked like heck to get this ready to go and it was working fine prior to me stripping the board, etc. Closed the coin door and get the same reading.
Is this repairable?
Thanks

Did you check the two large connectors? If they're swapped it might not be worth repairing, but this being a Williams it could be not booting for tons of other reasons

#16 6 years ago

Yes, it was the connectors. I had them plugged in to the wrong connector. Nothing smoked, but it was definitely causing the coils to lock on.

#17 6 years ago

Ouch. There is a vid post showing what all is wrong with mismatched connectors. It's not good.

#19 6 years ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

I had them plugged in to the wrong connector. Nothing smoked

Don't be to sure on this.

#20 6 years ago

I attribute this to poor engineering. I had a similar problem when I brought home a Stern Big Game and cross plugged the backbox; When I pressed the right flipper the extra ball light came on. I got lucky and nothing fried.

It is the first time I have experienced a wire harness where two similar Molex's are nested next to each other. Proper engineering would call for the Molex male and female connectors to be reversed for one Molex connector when two "same-count" Molex connectors live next to each other.

#21 6 years ago

Thanks. Really pisses me off. Spent a lot of time on this restore - looks great - but my faulty. I should have checked that the wires matched. Does anyone do system board repairs? I email barakandl to see if he still worked on them.

#22 6 years ago

Thanks for all of the help. Bit the bullet and bought a replacement board. Maybe I will work on my soldering and unsoldering skills and try to repair the MPU and driver board.

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