(Topic ID: 232091)

coil replacement

By hocuslocus

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 17 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by wayout440
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 5 years ago

I played a few games and noticed, all my shots were off or just a tad late then where the shot they were supposed to hit.
This usually means a few things to me

There was indeed flipper hop - this seems to mess with shot accuracy to some degree.
I increased the power to the flippers to max, it helped... but not enough. Each flipper has apprx. 1/4 million flips on them.... just seems a little early to be replacing coils, especially when my guardians is close to 400,000 flips per flipper and it's still going strong.

I'm going to order the bigger inlanes guides to help with the flipper hop, and rebuild the assemblies.... something doesn't seem right to me is all. Could be I'm just not used to it... but I don't think that's it.

The question I'm asking is at how many flips do bally/Williams games need to be replaced. I don't think you should go based on the number of games only because game times vary.

#2 5 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

just seems a little early to be replacing coils

Is this a typo? I've never replaced a coil on my games and they are all 20+ years old.

#3 5 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Is this a typo? I've never replaced a coil on my games and they are all 20+ years old.

well, that's what I'm saying. It seems way to early to be replacing them.

#4 5 years ago

All the other coils in the game are a little pointless to replace, I agree to that point. But flipper coils usually make a HUGE difference.

#5 5 years ago

?

Coils dont really "age". Either they are not getting full power due to the power supply/wiring or you have loose, sloppy parts like linkages or arms or dirty sleeves.

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from Travish:

?
Coils dont really "age". Either they are not getting full power due to the power supply/wiring or you have loose, sloppy parts like linkages or arms

interesting, never knew nobody else replaced these.
I understand that there are several other parts that are probably more suspect at this point. I've always found that it helps with performance when you do replace them.


go to 1:45 he explains it pretty well.

#7 5 years ago

The rebuild will do more for the power than anything else. I know conventional wisdom has said all along that 'coils don't wear out' - but they can certainly get heat damaged (you can tell as the sleeve will be hard to get in or out). At that point replacing the coil would be in order.

If you are not able to make the ramps, keep in mind as well that a lot of people really torque down the ramps at the flap area, and this is exactly what you DON'T want to do - you want the angle on the ramp to the playfield to be as shallow as possible. This is why there's usually foam below the flap area - the ramp will be secure, but not torqued down so much that you get a ski jump like effect, which robs a ton of power. Tighten only a little bit to make secure.... they're be smooth as buttah.

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

The rebuild will do more for the power than anything else.

yeah I'll probably rebuild them tomorrow, and keep the original coils.
wasn't aware of the ramp flap tip, thanks

everything is makeable, just seems like it's flipping a little later then it should ( I find this usually means power is being robbed from somewhere). I do have this issue on a demo man, it's extremely difficult to make that crane shot... pretty sure that's what nature intended though.

it is interesting to me that a majority are against changing out coils though. Nothing wrong with that viewpoint, I'm just gonna have to agree to disagree.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

yeah I'll probably rebuild them tomorrow, and keep the original coils.
wasn't aware of the ramp flap tip, thanks
everything is makeable, just seems like it's flipping a little later then it should ( I find this usually means power is being robbed from somewhere). I do have this issue on a demo man, it's extremely difficult to make that crane shot... pretty sure that's what nature intended though.
it is interesting to me that a majority are against changing out coils though. Nothing wrong with that viewpoint, I'm just gonna have to agree to disagree.

Coils themselves do not wear out. Sleeves act as a bearing from friction, and those should be replaced. If money is no object and you prefer to replace everything in one move, by all means. You should be able to get away with saving the $50 or so in coils by replacing the more important power robbing parts such as sleeves, linkage, the often overlooked playfield bushings and EOS switches and cabinet switches in earlier non digital flipper systems.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

well, that's what I'm saying. It seems way to early to be replacing them.

unless they are overheated/or shorted out, the end of time to too early to replace them. They *do not* wear out.

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from Marvin:

unless they are overheated/or shorted out, the end of time to too early to replace them. They *do not* wear out.

I'm sure this can be confirmed by some EM owners with 50+ year old games with original coils still in them.

#12 5 years ago

If you were able to keep the operation of the coil friction free then, yes you would probably never have to mess with changing the coil.

older games like EM's can get away with a broader range of power since they are single level. So even if 30-40% of the initial power is gone it won't play a huge roll on how the game flips. It also happens so slow that's it pretty hard to notice, especially in a home environment.

found another thread on it.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-would-a-coil-weaken-over-time-dumb-question-of-the-day

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

If you were able to keep the operation of the coil friction free then, yes you would probably never have to mess with changing the coil.

The coil is friction free. There are no moving parts against the coil, The coil sleeve part that fits into the coil is a type of plastic bearing which has a low coefficient of friction and has self lubricating properties.

Quoted from hocuslocus:

So even if 30-40% of the initial power is gone it won't play a huge roll on how the game flips. It also happens so slow that's it pretty hard to notice, especially in a home environment.

This power loss you speak of is not due to the coil, but the myriad of other parts that wear. A thorough overhaul and replacement of all moving parts, coil sleeves, bushings EOS switches and cabinet switches makes them play as day one....without coil replacement.

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

If you were able to keep the operation of the coil friction free then, yes you would probably never have to mess with changing the coil.

Quoted from slochar:

The rebuild will do more for the power than anything else. I know conventional wisdom has said all along that 'coils don't wear out' - but they can certainly get heat damaged (you can tell as the sleeve will be hard to get in or out). At that point replacing the coil would be in order.

A heat damaged coil is a secondary result of a another problem and unrelated to the coil itself.

One thing to also keep in mind is that the more hits the coil stop receives the the shorter the coil stop becomes resulting in a longer throw...these minute changes do have an effect on game dynamics.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

The coil is friction free. There are no moving parts against the coil, The coil sleeve part that fits into the coil is a type of plastic bearing which has a low coefficient of friction and has self lubricating properties.

Think you took what I said to literally, I know the coil itself is friction free. I was talking about the stuff the coil drives. If these components stayed friction free then yes, there would never be a reason to change the coil. One cannot go bad without the other.

All I'm saying is think about what happens when a coils resistance changes lower and lower until it gets to be a dead short.
if more varnish wears off the coils windings that's one-two-three-etc... less windings lowering the resistance, This inevitably changes the inductance of the coil.

I always check my coils with a dmm before replacing them, I don't just do it on a whim. That would be way to expensive.
this time it was a few parts coil sleeves, stops, and plungers, everything else was still really good looking. That was enough for a descent amount of power loss.

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

Think you took what I said to literally, I know the coil itself is friction free. I was talking about the stuff the coil drives. If these components stayed friction free then yes, there would never be a reason to change the coil. One cannot go bad without the other.
All I'm saying is think about what happens when a coils resistance changes lower and lower until it gets to be a dead short.
if more varnish wears off the coils windings that's one-two-three-etc... less windings lowering the resistance, This inevitably changes the inductance of the coil.
I always check my coils with a dmm before replacing them, I don't just do it on a whim. That would be way to expensive.
this time it was a few parts coil sleeves, stops, and plungers, everything else was still really good looking. That was enough for a descent amount of power loss.

The varnish does not wear off in normal use.

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

Think you took what I said to literally, I know the coil itself is friction free. I was talking about the stuff the coil drives. If these components stayed friction free then yes, there would never be a reason to change the coil. One cannot go bad without the other.
All I'm saying is think about what happens when a coils resistance changes lower and lower until it gets to be a dead short.
if more varnish wears off the coils windings that's one-two-three-etc... less windings lowering the resistance, This inevitably changes the inductance of the coil.
I always check my coils with a dmm before replacing them, I don't just do it on a whim. That would be way to expensive.
this time it was a few parts coil sleeves, stops, and plungers, everything else was still really good looking. That was enough for a descent amount of power loss.

The coils resistance is not going to change unless there is a problem. I have not had a need to measure the resistance on any of my games coils that I currently own. I just don't believe it to be necessary except for troubleshooting, and that usually will reveal the coil is not the problem and doesn't need to be replaced anyway.

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