(Topic ID: 9214)

Coil Malfunction Help

By PinballGiant

12 years ago


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  • 52 posts
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  • Latest reply 12 years ago by robertmee
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There are 52 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 12 years ago

Hello. I was hoping someone could help me with a problem I encountered while replacing a few coils on my Stern Striker Xtreme game. I replaced the first coil, fired the machine up, and it worked fine. I then replaced two additional solenoid coils and fired the machine up. When I went to test the coils, I first ran a coil I didn't mess with and it worked fine. I then went on to run one of the coils I did replace and when I fired it the machine said "coil malfunction" and reset. Now the game turns on and I can access all the menus and even start a game but NONE of the coils will fire and the coil error message continues to flash. Could this be some sort of safety mode that locks down all of the coils? Thanks!

#2 12 years ago

Check your coin door disconnect....Sounds like it came loose. Either that or you shorted something and blew the high power fuse. Check those too.

#3 12 years ago

If the coils have diodes on them, you need to get the wires back in the right spots.

If not, then check if one of the new coils is bad.

Then check fuses associated with your coils.

LTG

#4 12 years ago

Hey Lloyd....how is the 'coil malfunction' DMD message in Stern's MPU derived? Does it have some type of closed loop feedback to determine that a coil didn't fire? Just curious....I seem to remember a software change that 'fixed' coil malfunction error messages, but never really knew how the MPU determined a malfunction.

#5 12 years ago

Thanks for the fast responses! I checked the coin door disconnect and it's fine. I also made sure the diode was secure on the coil and even replaced the coil that triggered the error with a different coil but the problem persists. I checked all of the fuses under the playfield and they look fine but are there any fuses elsewhere? When I fire the machine up I get this message (see picture) before it goes into attract mode. It seems that erak had a similar problem here:

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-motor-control-relay-striker-xtreme

and it is interesting to note that I may have installed the switch incorrectly to the coil that is acting up...

Thanks!

pinballer.jpgpinballer.jpg

#6 12 years ago

There's a whole bunch of fuses on the power board in the backbox, have you checked that yet?

#7 12 years ago

you might have a TIP transistor on the solenoid driver board that is bad. If you have the manual check which transistor runs that coil. If you installed the switch incorrectly you may have shorted the transistor on the driver board. But check all your fuses. I think there is one attached near the goalie motor itself if I remember correctly.

You might try removing that coil completely and trying the test again. If it goes away you either have a bad coil diode, wires mixed up or a bad transistor on the driver board.

best of luck getting it fixed.

#8 12 years ago

Thanks for all the help. I opened up the backbox and discovered that I had blown one of the fuses. I've replaced it and now the other coils work but the coil giving me trouble started to smoke as soon as I turned the machine on and a different fuse in the backbox blew out. Does anyone have any idea why the coil would smoke and blow the fuse? I'm pretty sure I have the wires soldered in the right order. Thanks!

#9 12 years ago

Like erak mentioned the TIP transistor on the driver board for that coil needs to be replaced. I just had this same problem.

Also if you've changed out a coil, make sure the power wire is on the coil lug with the silver banded side of the coil diode.

#10 12 years ago

now I have replaced both fuses and resoldered the coil so that the power wire is on the same side as the diode. The coil no longer smokes and the game plays fine. Whenever the machine needs to use the coil I can hear it trying to fire and after a few attempts it reads a new error message #4 top super VUK coil malfunction. I even replaced the coil with a different one and the problem persists. Any ideas?

#11 12 years ago

can i use a multimeter to see if i need to replace the transistor?

#12 12 years ago

You can check it for short, but if it were shorted the coil would always be on. It's unusual for a transistor to just not switch, so for now I would discount the transistor.

Take a test piece of wire, and with the game on and coin door close, touch the metal tab of the transistor in question to ground. Does the coil fire? If so, then that at least checks the power path to the coil. If the coil doesn't fire, then you've got something wrong with the power to the coil, the ground to the coil, or the coil itself. If it fires, but doesn't during game mode, then either the transistor is bad or you have a logic problem further upstream.

BTW, what do you mean, you can hear it try? If you hear the solenoid/coil trying to engage, then you likely have a bad linkage or bad sleeve...something putting the coil into a bind.

#13 12 years ago

Thanks! I no longer hear the coil "trying" to fire. Instead, when I try to run it nothing happens. I just used a multimeter on the coil in question and it has no power coming to it...what could this mean? Thank you so much for all the help!

#14 12 years ago

Put your meter on the lug of coil on the band side of the diode and to a convenient known ground and what do you measure in volts? Coil doesn't need to be firing. Do the same for a known working coil. Do this with power on, coin door closed. Let us know the results. I'm not too familiar with stern, but normally you should have power on the band side of the diode at all times when measured to ground. The transistor on the driver board sends ground to the coil to complete the circuit and fire the coil. If you have power on the band side of the diode, take a piece of test wire and short the other lug to ground. Coil should fire. Report results.

#15 12 years ago

Okay I measured a known working coil and it had around 74V. I also measured the coil in question and it also had around 74V. I then tried to use the scrap piece of wire to perform the test on the known working coil but must not have done something right. I touched one end of the scrap wire to the ground lug on the coil and then the other end to a bolt on the leg thinking that this would get the coil to fire. I must have done something wrong because instead of the coil firing it sparked blue and the machine reset. No damage other than that though.

#16 12 years ago

Okay, then the high side is okay....Very strange that grounding a ground would cause a spark and the game to reset.

Again, I'm not a Stern expert....Were this WMS/Bally/DE I'd be more comfortable.

Looking at an example schematic for WPT, I assume is something similar to Striker Extreme.

http://sternpinball.com/downloads/WPT_SGM/WPT_SEC3_CHP2.pdf

If you look at the diagram, you'll see that VDC is always on the one side (YEL-VIO), and the transistor switches the BRN-BLK to ground to complete the circuit for the coil and thus firing it. If you touched the BRN-BLK equivalent on the coil lug to ground that should be the same as the transistor switching to ground. No reason to get a reset. Spark maybe as you are completing the circuit and shunting current through the connection now, but not a reset.

Hopefully one of the Stern experts can chime in here and confirm this.

#17 12 years ago

One more test if you want is to just ground the transistor tab for the coil. That should fire the coil from the transistor on. If it doesn't then something is wrong from the transistor trace to the edge connector to the coil.

#18 12 years ago

Okay found this.....As I thought, the spark is normal....To avoid a reset, you should just be tapping the ground not holding it...That applies to a flipper coil as you are pulling in the high power winding. Were you by chance testing on a flipper coil? Try a vuk or something that doesn't have high power windings.

http://rgparchive-removed.com/rgpforum/showthread.php?t=344090

#19 12 years ago

Thanks! After reading your post I realized my mistake. I was thinking yellow-violent was the ground all along --hence the reset. I tried again this time knowing that black-brown was in fact the ground. On a known working coil when I grounded the ground (the right one this time) the coil does in fact energize. I then did the same thing to the malfunctioning coil and it also energized. Where does this leave me?

#20 12 years ago

Okay, so the coil is good...Let's go further upstream. Find the transistor for that coil on the driver board and touch the metal top of the transistor to ground with a test wire. See if the coil fires. As a comparison do the same on a working coil/transistor combo so you know you're doing it right.

#21 12 years ago

I just did the same thing for the transistors. A transistor corresponding to a known working coil energized when grounded. When I touched the transistor corresponding to the coil in question nothing happened.

#22 12 years ago

Okay....so that tells me, that the ground path is missing between the transistor and the coil.

Time to get out your DMM and put it on continuity test. Using your schematics, check continuity between the transistor ground and the connector pin for that solenoid. Do the same for the connector pin to the solenoid. Somewhere, the signal path is broke from the transistor to the coil.

#23 12 years ago

Okay I'm new to the hobby so sorry for all the newbie questions but could you go over where I can find the transistor ground, the connector pin, and where on the solenoid I need to be testing? I'm also attaching the schematic for coil giving me fits. It is Q4 Top Super VUK. Thanks you've been super helpful!

#24 12 years ago

Put your meter on continuity and check the metal tip of the transistor Q4 (the place where you grounded before) to the male pin 5 of the J8 connector on the board (you'll need to remove the female side of J8). You should have continuity. Then check the female side of pin 5 on J8 to the BRN-YEL on the coil. You should also have continuity here too. Let me know the results.

#25 12 years ago

Though I can't be of any help, I think you 2 are doing an awesome job.

#26 12 years ago
Quoted from judremy:

Though I can't be of any help, I think you 2 are doing an awesome job.

Agreed. Always good to see the helping hands getting one going again. Good luck!

#27 12 years ago

There is continuity between female and solenoid but NO continuity between transistor and male. Thanks!

#28 12 years ago

Okay, examine the trace between the transistor and the male pin. Look for any breaks. Use your DMM to check for continuity on any available points along the way. You may have a cold solder joint and need to reflow the solder pads at the transistor and the connector. Reflowing means reheating the solder pads until they are liquid again and then letting them solidify. Is this a transistor you replaced? Did you orient it the correct way? Is it the correct type transistor (npn)?

With the DMM you should be able to check the metal tip to the ground leg on the transistor...then the ground leg to the solder pad. Then the solder pad to the pin. etc. Somewhere you've lost continuity.

#29 12 years ago

Okay, the transistor corresponding to the malfunctioning coil has been replaced, but not by me. Its part number is IRL540N, but the coil had been functioning with the replaced transistor before. There is continuity between the transistor tip and the transistor leads. There is no continuity between the transistor lead and the male pin. It is also interesting that for the functioning coils, the solder pads on both ends of adjacent resistor (I think that's what it is) do not have continuity. The broken coil, however, does have continuity on both sides of the resistor. This seems strange to me... It is also interesting that the male pin for the coil that is acting up is slightly discolored when compared to the others. Thanks!

#30 12 years ago

Not sure what resistor you are referring to without a detailed schematic of SE, which I don't have. If you could post a picture, that'd be helpful. But anytime something deviates from a similar circuit, that's always suspect and I would investigate further. A resistor will have continuity across it, but not zero. It will have resistance of whatever ohms the resistor is rated at. If it is a capacitor, then it should not have continuity. If it is a diode, then you would need to check it with the meter set for diode, not resistance. Again, a picture would be helpful here, or if you have a detailed schematic of the game.

Take the board out (if you already haven't) and check continuity on the solder pads. It sounds like maybe you're checking with the board in the head. Flip the board over and you may see a bad trace, or a broken pad, or if the pad looks dull and not shiny it could be a cold solder joint. The discolored pin means the old transistor probably locked on at some point and burnt the pin before the fuse popped. That could have certainly caused the solder joint to fatigue and it needs reflowing.

It sounds like you've at least identified the area that needs attention and are close to resolving.

#31 12 years ago

Okay I've taken the board out and found the problem...now if only there's a way to fix it... There is no continuity for the red box..

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#32 12 years ago

Yeah, your trace has lifted....Easy fix. Use a small piece of 18 gauge wire and solder between the two pads.

Something like this (not mine):

http://www.techdose.com/repairlog/Whirlwind-Pinball-Repair--CracklingMissing-Sound-Issue/387/images/soundcpu6.jpg

#33 12 years ago

okay i just bought the wire and am about to bipass the trace. After I do this what is to keep it from happening again if whatever I did to cause this still hasn't been resolved? Thanks!

#34 12 years ago

Nature of pinball....things break, electronics short, user error. If I remember correctly, it started when you put a diode on a coil backwards? Don't do that again

#35 12 years ago

haha won't do that again...okay so now i've bipassed the trace and have continuity all the way from the transistor to the solenoid. I also discovered that the cause of the incident was that I put the ground wire for the coil onto the the silver banded side of the diode when I should have put the power onto the silver banded side...the problem now is that whenever I flip the machine on I blow the solenoid fuse and I have no idea why... It's interesting that the coil I'm dealing with has the silver side of the diode on the opposite side as every other coil in the machine...it came that way..getting closer!

#36 12 years ago

If you're immediately blowing the fuse something is shorted somewhere...I assume that the only thing you changed was adding the trace jumper? Nothing else changed from before and you could turn the machine on and the fuse didn't blow? To do the repair you took the board out....Make sure you put all the connectors back on properly and aren't off a pin on any of them. Immediately blowing even before starting a game? Adding that trace wire shouldn't have anything to do with that.

#37 12 years ago

I think I may have figured it out. The coil I am using for the VUK has the diode soldered on backwards (it came like that) when compared to every other coil I can find. I just put in another coil I had laying around with the diode soldered correctly and now when the machine fires up the VUK coil is just stuck on...transistor? Thanks!

#38 12 years ago

Yep, transistor, or the pre-driver transistor if there is one on this game. Probably the initial problem that burnt the trace and burnt the pin....If you read back one of my earlier posts, I think I suggested that a locked on transistor probably burnt the pin originally.

#39 12 years ago

okay, I just visited radio shack and they didn't have the exact transistor that is in the machine but I think I found some that would work. Would you mind telling me which, if any, of these four would be best to use? npn tip120 darlington transistor, npn tip3055 transistor, npn tip31 transistor, IRF510 MOSFET transistor. Thanks so much!

#40 12 years ago

The IRL540N you had in there is really the best replacement.

The tip120 is only rated for 60V....It'll run hotter than Sh** so I wouldn't use that.

Can't use the IRF510 as it significantly more base voltage to drive the gate, and it likely won't work...I think the IRLs are logic level Mosfets and the IRFs are not.

The 3055 takes too much current to drive the base, so I doubt it would be suitable. It also is rated for 60V.

Definitely not a Tip31....It's only rated for 40V. A tip31b or c is rated for 80V and 100V.

#41 12 years ago

Thanks so much that's helpful! I was able to find one that matches the ratings for the one already in the machine at Fry's Electronics.

#42 12 years ago

okay, I soldered in the new transistor and fired up the machine and after about 5 seconds the dmd went out and now it won't come back on. You can start a game fine and everything and the coil that was acting up will fire now it's just too weak to shoot the ball out (I think it's just old). Do you have any ideas on why the DMD would die on me?

#43 12 years ago

Blew a fuse

#44 12 years ago

I checked that but they're all fine. It will come on for the first few seconds when I turn the machine on but then shuts off

#45 12 years ago

I responded in your other thread.

#46 12 years ago

okay sorry I haven't responded in a while I just started back to school and have been busy. I got the display working again after yet another amateur mistake (ribbon cable in backwards) and now the coil will fire when I want it to. The only problem is that it doesn't fire with enough power to get the ball out of the hole in the playfield. After it tries five times it says coil malfunction and stops trying. Do you know why the coil would be under powered? I even replaced it with a different one and the same problem persists...thanks!

#47 12 years ago

Make sure your trace repair is solid...Has the ability to conduct the required current to energize the coil. As a test, ground that coil like before and see if it appears stronger than when grounded from the MPU....That'll isolate whether it is a coil problem or a MPU problem.

#48 12 years ago

Just a suggestion: thrust in robertmee.

#49 12 years ago
Quoted from Angyalpor:

Just a suggestion: thrust in robertmee.

I hope you meant 'trust'!!! I don't go the other way!!!!!!!!!!!

#50 12 years ago

okay I just grounded out the coil and it works perfectly. I then proceeded to undo my previous bypass and to do it again while including another trace leading up to the burnt out one. It's still weak. Could the transistor have anything to do with this?

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