(Topic ID: 147829)

Coil fuse blows on start up

By flopflip

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 39 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by flopflip
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

Screenshot_2015-12-30-13-02-05_(resized).png
Coindoor5_(resized).jpg
Coindoor6_(resized).jpg
Creditwheel2_(resized).jpg
20151229_210957_(resized).jpg
fuse_breaker_(resized).jpg
#1 8 years ago

Bally Flip Flop restore in progress. Just replaced flippers and the springs. Replaced the two pop bumper plastic parts, lamp holders and springs. Replaced everything the way it was. New fuses. When I turn power lights come on. I had to manually turn credit wheel to 1 credit. When I press start button, the coil fuse blows and everything shuts off. I replaced the fuse, turned it on again and this time no lights, just blew the 15a coil fuse right away. I would like to determine the cause before I waste another fuse. Help?

#2 8 years ago

Does anyone know specifically what fuses to use? I have all 250v and the amps according to the schematic. Should they be fast blow or slow blow?

#3 8 years ago

Got a meter?

I'd start at the pops, since you were messing around with them.

Save yourself some money and make a fuse breaker:

fuse_breaker_(resized).jpgfuse_breaker_(resized).jpg

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-properly-ask-for-pinball-repair-help-vids-guide

#4 8 years ago

Short on a coil where you just worked on it. Check and make sure something is not touching something else.

#5 8 years ago

Can a short cause the fuse to blow without a game actually starting? I hear the motors resetting and all like it is about to start a game, thats when it blows.

#6 8 years ago
Quoted from flopflip:

Can a short cause the fuse to blow without a game actually starting?

Sure it can.

#7 8 years ago

Unplug the playfield and see if it blows. My fuses are all normal, not slow blow.

20151229_210957_(resized).jpg20151229_210957_(resized).jpg

#8 8 years ago

Thank you. Regular blow fuses now in place. Coin door unplugged. 1) Power on with playfield disconnected results in Backglass lights on. 2) Power on with playfield connected results in both Backglass and Playfield lights on. So far so good. However, I suspect once I reconnect the Coin Door then power on the fuse will blow, if not immediately then as soon as I press the START button, the fuse blows. That has been the pattern. Depositing a Quarter produces the two KNOCKS indicating two plays. However, the credit wheel does not move; no credits indicated. So I manually move the credit wheel to show credits. Then I press the START Button to start the game and the COIL fuse blows.

#9 8 years ago

Start a game with the playfield disconnected and see if the fuse blows

#10 8 years ago

And check your coil voltages, on all of them.

#11 8 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Save yourself some money and make a fuse breaker

Vid - I was looking for small breakers like that in values that would be useful for pinball troubleshooting. What values have you found to be useful, and can you provide a link for where to buy them (of course we'll have to attach the blown fuses ourselves)? When substituting one of these in place of a slow blow fuse for testing, is there any rule of thumb in what value breaker to use to replace a given value slow blow fuse?

#12 8 years ago

I have in my kit a 1, 2, 3, 5, 10, 15 and 20 amp breaker.

You can buy them from GPE, Ebay or just pull them from other electronics (BUD sat boxes will have several values).

Always use a smaller breaker than the fuse you are replacing.

#13 8 years ago

I manually set the credit wheel to 5 credits. Started game with COIN door connected, Playfield disconnected. Result: lights on in Backbox, 1 credit removed from credit wheel, motors audibly reset. No blown fuse. Conclusion cause of problem likely somewhere in Playfield? Next test????

#14 8 years ago

Photo of Credit Wheel (3 black wires were not connected when I acquired Flip Flop) All three now clipped to coil as shown. Credit wheel does not display credits when coin is inserted.

Photo of Coin Door (after an intensive overhaul) Anything appear incorrect? The lockout coil was quite fried. I removed it thinking it may be causing the fuses to blow.

Creditwheel2_(resized).jpgCreditwheel2_(resized).jpg

Coindoor6_(resized).jpgCoindoor6_(resized).jpg

Coindoor5_(resized).jpgCoindoor5_(resized).jpg

#15 8 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Got a meter?
I'd start at the pops, since you were messing around with them.
Save yourself some money and make a fuse breaker:
fuse_breaker_(resized).jpg
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-properly-ask-for-pinball-repair-help-vids-guide

making these is great for troubleshooting. I made a set in every Amp rating I could find.

#16 8 years ago

I have a new Digital Multi meter. How could I use it in troubleshooting this issue? (Other than testing the fuses that blow).

#17 8 years ago

Set to ohm and put the leads in each leg of the coils on the platfield. If one is zero ohms the coil is bad and causing the fuse to blow.

#18 8 years ago

Make sure the game is off when you do this

#19 8 years ago
Quoted from MotorCityMatt:

Set to ohm and put the leads in each leg of the coils on the platfield. If one is zero ohms the coil is bad and causing the fuse to blow.

wouldn't it just go through the diode? Well not on this machine, but a SS machine, that trick wouldn't work so good.

#20 8 years ago

Everyone with an EM should read Clay's guide cover to cover about 100 times:
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/

#21 8 years ago

Screenshot_2015-12-30-13-02-05_(resized).pngScreenshot_2015-12-30-13-02-05_(resized).png

#22 8 years ago

Thank you for a thorough and essential overview regarding the coils. After the initial intensive cleaning and once over of Flip Flop, it did power up and most of the playfield components functioned with the exception of the lower left flipper. (Which hopefully I have resolved. I won't know until I get it running again.) Now, only the lights function. So I will pursue the coil analysis. Does one bad coil prevent the game from starting?

#23 8 years ago

OK, I have tested all the coil and sure enough, the Lower Left Flipper Coil (which has not functioned since I acquired the game) is at about 0hms. Great! We've determined a probable cause, or at least discovered another item needing attention. My enthusiasm however is diminished by the fact that I have no replacement coil. Too bad one cannot just walk into their local hardware or home store and pick up a pinball coil. I am aware of the options for ordering the parts online but the time factor is unfortunate.

#24 8 years ago

Are there any retail alternatives where I might be able to obtain the Flipper Coil? I live in a fairly large metropolitan area; Minneapolis.

#26 8 years ago
Quoted from flopflip:

OK, I have tested all the coil and sure enough, the Lower Left Flipper Coil (which has not functioned since I acquired the game) is at about 0hms.

Does it read ZERO (as in an open circuit) or does it read .6 or something like that?

#27 8 years ago

Hey Flop... keep lookin for bad coils,and shorts. if the flip coil is not engaged, it will not blow fuse, gotta press flip button to complete circuit.
pm Dirtflipper, he may have a coil, and he is in your hood.

#28 8 years ago

The DMM reads .6 on the LL Flipper coil. Can I just remove it, cap the wires and start the game to see if everything else works? Or do I have to wait for the new coil before I will be able to start the game?
Thanks for the tip on a local contact. I'll check it out!

#29 8 years ago

you can clip a lead from the coil. the flips are kind of a secondary circuit in that they are kind of self contained. if you dont press a flip button, dead circuit. if you do press the flip button, I would suspect an instant fuse pop.

#30 8 years ago

Thank you Texas. Could you elaborate on clipping a lead from the coil? Clip to which part of the coil, and to where?

#31 8 years ago

By "clip" he meant "disconnect".

#32 8 years ago

UPDATE:
Without doing anything with the left flipper, I just tried to start a game with the following results:
1) Credit Wheel and all score wheels on zero.
2) Plugged in machine, playfield and backbox lights came on.
3) I deposited a Quarter, and heard the two knocks indicating two credits.
4) No credits were added to the credit wheel (still shows 0).
5) I manually set the credit wheel to 1 credit.
6) Pressed start button.
7) Game sounded like it was resetting.
8) Nothing on playfield functioning (except lights).
9) Game apparently did not start.

#33 8 years ago

You really need to use Clays guide linked above and systematically go through the game...you're going off on too many red herrings. There's a process from A to Z for getting the game to power on, coin up, reset, and start a game.

#34 8 years ago

Hi flopflip +
robertmee (post-33) mentioned: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#start -> go to "More Bally Start-Up Sequence Info". (As I like to see the Score-Reels reset at Start-Up: I would manually put some points on the Score-Reels of Player-1 before starting).
Then do Your 1,2,3,4,5,6 -> Now Your "7" in detail - You are +/- at clay's guide "1". Check and countercheck the guide and Your pin -> THE VERY FIRST STRANGE BEHAVING is interesting "Clay says" <-> "may pin does". So we have a starting point.
Greetings Rolf

#35 8 years ago

if the machine has DC thumpers and slings i would suspect the bridge rectifier input. un-solder one of the AC inputs to the bridge and see if the short remains.

#36 8 years ago

Indeed! I surely would not have made it this far without the comprehensive material provided by Pinrepair.com. Flip Flop came to me in disastrous condition. Although I acquired it from the original owner the game had been stored in a most inhospitable environment for the past 22 years, (including at least one Hurricane). The transformation has been remarkable, particularly my emphasis involving the appearance it deserves. And although I feel I have been on track in terms of the mechanical restoration, when the game doesn't start progress comes to a halt. There is much yet to learn. That I like. The joy that comes from solving the mysteries is even more gratifying. Once this adventure settles, I will be ready for the next one. A Gottlieb I think!

#37 8 years ago

Now at the point where I manually place 1 credit on the credit wheel, press start button. Game resets but still nothing works (except lights).

#38 8 years ago

Hi flopflip
You should have "writed / written / wrote (?)": "Great, the pin starts-up, resets and gives the first ball".

Think of a fully running pin - what happens if you press the flipperfinger-Buttons after You have reached "Game Over" ? The answer is "Nothing" (A).
What happens if ... when the pin is resetting ... "Nothing" (B).
What happens when You bang a pendulum tilt ... "Nothing" (C).

(A) The Game-Over Relay has moved.
(B) The Reset-Relay is pulling.
(C) The Tilt-Relay is pulling (different ways in Gottlieb / Williams / Bally).

So the fault in Your pin is either a relay pulling when it should "no longer / not" be pulling (faulty-pulling) - OR the relay(s) do fine - BUT a switch-blade is bent causing "Switch is faulty-open".

Great, ipdb has a schema http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=889 -> schema-F-3 shows the "Switch on Game-Over Relay" (relay in faulty position ? / Switch Blade bent - faulty-open ?).
Schema-F-4 shows the "Switch on Reset-Relay" (same questions).
Schema-F-10 shows the "Switch on Tilt-Relay" (same questions).

I suggest: Have a CLOSE / GOOD look at the switches - securely closing ? Contact points oxidate ? Wires soldered-on ?

I suggest (if the Fuse-problem is solved): Mark this topic as "solved" and start a new topic "Flip flop: Playfield not working" (in the new title: no Fuse is mentioned).
Greetings Rolf

#39 8 years ago

We have successfully resolved the coil fuse issue. Most grateful to all!

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 12.00
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/coil-fuse-blows-on-start-up and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.