(Topic ID: 261435)

Coffe-Mat's Cosmic Wars Tech + Questions

By pavel_one

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 5 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by pavel_one
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic poll

“Coffe-Mat's Cosmic Wars Tech + Questions”

  • Keep it all for yourself. Don't do anything else. 0 votes
  • At least try to have the ROM data extracted and post to IPDB 6 votes
    100%
  • Destroy that sucker! Someone will be able to facilitate a plug-and-play solution in the future. 0 votes
  • Stop right there, and sell it to me! 0 votes

(6 votes)

#1 4 years ago

I have a working Cosmic Wars. It came with an additional logic board an additional sound board. The logic board has some minor differences, so I think that it may be a prototype.
The MPU is a TMS1100, which uses a masked ROM. I don't have the tech to dump the ROM, but Sean R. does, so I sent the TMS1100 to him for extraction.

Stupid me, in a stupid rush, trusted the USPS to not screw up, which of course they did.... losing this precious MPU in the process.
I have one MPU left from the working board. There is no plug-and-plug substitute available for this chip that I know of.

Do I send this chip to Sean R., using UPS or FedEX of course, to have him extract the ROM info? If the ROM is not readable, the PLA may or may not be able to be decoded, and the only way to get all the data from the chip is to decapp it, which destroys the chip in the process.

For the sake of those with non-working boards, do I get the data at all costs, knowing that I can make the logic board useless until a substitute can be created? I don't have the knowledge to create a substitute.

The coding for the game is quite sparse, and a conversion to an OpenPinball Pi would not be very difficult. Would the game then lose any perceived value?

Would the PinMame team (is there an active one?) consider this as a emulation module?

I just don't know. I wish Vid were here.

#2 4 years ago
Quoted from pavel_one:

I have a working Cosmic Wars. It came with an additional logic board an additional sound board. The logic board has some minor differences, so I think that it may be a prototype.
The MPU is a TMS1100, which uses a masked ROM. I don't have the tech to dump the ROM, but Sean R. does, so I sent the TMS1100 to him for extraction.
Stupid me, in a stupid rush, trusted the USPS to not screw up, which of course they did.... losing this precious MPU in the process.
I have one MPU left from the working board. There is no plug-and-plug substitute available for this chip that I know of.
Do I send this chip to Sean R., using UPS or FedEX of course, to have him extract the ROM info? If the ROM is not readable, the PLA may or may not be able to be decoded, and the only way to get all the data from the chip is to decapp it, which destroys the chip in the process.
For the sake of those with non-working boards, do I get the data at all costs, knowing that I can make the logic board useless until a substitute can be created? I don't have the knowledge to create a substitute.
The coding for the game is quite sparse, and a conversion to an OpenPinball Pi would not be very difficult. Would the game then lose any perceived value?
Would the PinMame team (is there an active one?) consider this as a emulation module?
I just don't know. I wish Vid were here.

I see you’re new here, but even then I’m astounded you would send a knowingly excessively rare board out in the regular ol hum-drum postal service.
I would get on the phone and start tearing their head off. Sometimes it’s surprising how fast they find stuff when you help them grasp the true depth of their failure.
USPS has treated me right. UPS has lost so many packages it’s sad. FedEx hasn’t lost any but seem to regularly use them as an bumpers in a demolition derpy.

Anyway. No. The fact you are even considering shipping out the other one sounds like you don’t really appreciate what a rare opportunity the game represents and you haven’t learned how be a proper steward of it.

I would suggest selling it to someone with far more experience who can do what needs to be done.

I owned a Last Lap recently, a rather rare Solid State game by Playmatic with very little data and an unusual setup. I tried my best to get it working but upon realizing that I was in over my head I sold it to my friend who informed me that if the MPU was ruined then the game was totally lost.
If you care about the history of these rare pieces, I think you should find someone who can do what needs to be done and who is passionate about building replacement boards.

And of course GET ON USPS ASS. HAVE THEM HUNT THE BOARD DOWN.
Find out what the last facility it was in was and rip them apart till they find it.
If you make enough waves they will find it.

#3 4 years ago
Quoted from pavel_one:

Would the PinMame team (is there an active one?) consider this as a emulation module?

I'm sure they would be.

Can you post some clear pictures of the MPU board you have?
And also closeups of the PROM to determine what type it is to see how easy/hard it will be to dump?

#4 4 years ago

I recently picked up a Star Battle & being in similar shoes, I would want you to first find the missing MPU, second have someone competent download the rom file for reproduction. Without a working ROM the game is bork'd anyways. Take a chance but you need to light up USPS's ass like Isochronic suggests.

#5 4 years ago

I believe that I should offer a bit more information.

The MPU is the microcontroller chip - the Texas Instruments TMS1100, which is basically a TMS1000 with more RAM. This IC uses an internal masked ROM, which is a physical representation of the program data - it is hard coded into the chip. Each program written for the TMS1100 was sent to the TI factory where it was added to the photographic mask that creates the silicon die, which was installed in the package... a DIP28. One cannot simply dump the ROM because this chip has no external data bus, per se, which can be read. Sean R. is one of the leading experts on this technology, and one of the greats in the electronic game hobby. See one of his blogs here: https://seanriddledecap.blogspot.com

Certain versions of the TMS1100 can be coaxed into coughing up their ROM data. Some will offer their PLA data also. The technology to do this is beyond my knowledge. Without the ROM and PLA data, the game code can not be emulated or reproduced, although it can be reverse engineered based on schematics and gameplay. Sometimes the chip will not give up its data, but it will however succumb to an acid bath to dissolve the package. Once the package is gone, the die can be photographed using a special microscope. This photo can then be decoded into its individual bits in both the ROM area and the PLA area. I can't do any of this, but Sean can and may even go as far as to decode the ROM and PLA into actual .bin files... all for the love of the electronic game hobby.
I sent the TMS1100 from what looked like a prototype board which came with my cabinet. I sent the chip only. Along the way the chip in its sub-package came out of the envelope that I sent. People send me chips like that all the time... silly of me to expect it to make it the entire trip, considering the rarity of this one.

That all being said, I am willing to sacrifice the only MPU that I have for this game in order to retrieve the game ROM. With that ROM, a substitute of some kind can be made in order get those who are without working boards to have a game that plays. I'm not saying that I can or will make that substitute, although not having a working board makes pretty good motivation. Sean has, with a little success, made a PIC emulator of the TMS1100 that functions.

Rarity does equate to value. The gameplay of Cosmic Wars in its present state is not very good. It would benefit from a code rewrite or a hardware conversion. There are functioning Cosmic Wars in pinball museums all over the world. Heck, one was for sale on Pinside not too long ago. This is why the preservation of this one unit may not be that important. Importance often equates to dollars.... so if someone were to offer me enough dollars because it's that important, I'd gladly make the exchange.

I have already heard back from the USPS customer service rep in the destination city. Hopefully, they can retrieve the package.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/coffe-mat-s-cosmic-wars-tech-questions and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.