...not much info - but at least Stern is saying something.

Like I just said over in the Metallica code thread,

This pretty much sums it up...

Stern-Code-On-Stick.gif

I guess no Xmen update anytime soon?

Good to give updates, but how hard is it to list the actual pins being worked on vs "past few"

Its like they just want to piss people off

Acknowledging that there's a problem is half the battle. Wait n see mode is all we can do now.

Lol

last few games...

what? ac/dc, met and star trek?

WOF update confirmed?

I thought it was Austin Powers?

I'd expect it soon actually. It's actively being worked on at least.

I would assume its

Star Trek
Metallica
Xmen
Avengers

Sorry but I don't see how Lyman can work on the new system, Metallica and ACDC. Doesn't mean we will never get an ACDC update though.

Lol Pinside had to literally beat that info out of Stern, sad but true.

Definitely not a company I'm ever gonna do business with again. Their 'policies' blow and their communication is even worse. Obviously I'm just one guy... but 20k in NIBs pins in the 14 or so months is a lot of cash for me

LOL imediatly after a stern code bash thread they come up and make a still cryptic comment. I will beleve it when I see it. Or maybe the mustang theme isn't making peoples batshit crazy and pre ordering.

I hear you but what games are being worked on? Who's working on what? What games will obtain updates and when? I did not buy ACDC until I thought the game was completed, including software. I'll never preorder another game, ever, even WoZ was a mistake to preorder looking back at it. New company or not the product should be shipped complete, especially for the prices Stern and JJP are asking and that includes software. I'm a software engineer, have been for a long time I can tell you its risky to buy a product with incomplete software based on a consumer expecation it will be completed "at some point" in the future. All the risk is on you.

Agreed!

Say I'm right and X-Men is close, finally including Deadpool. I'm gonna be happy for X-Men owners. But really, how long was that wait? I'm not excusing that, at all. All we can hope is that the older games are finally finished and they do better with the newer ones. Vote with your wallet.

That goes both ways though, when Metallica has the band modes, the crank it up modes, end of the line, maybe it will see a sales bump as people are down to buy a completed game. I guess we'll see. Money talks either way.

Pretty sure a lot of us (myself included) are done with buying NIB stern pins. No reason to pay outrageous prices on pins that are NOT improving quality wise, and have incomplete codes. There is absolutely no justification for the price increases IMO.

Screw stern ...

_{Post edited by TigerLaw25 : language}

Oh boy....another Stern bashing thread......almost time for another JJP bash too

Moved to Stern Pinball sub forum.

My dealer has nib sterns a year later. Usually at a better price or a floor model even.

Stern didn't all of a sudden wake up and give a shit they are just worried we won't buy their shitty mustang pin which probably won't make it out of first gear.

At least we have shown Pinside can make a difference!

I wasn't trying to "bash" Stern, I currently have 5 stern pins and I've bought (and later sold) many others. But I do think I'm entitled to bitch a little until I get my X-Men code update at the very least

I won't give two shits about Deadpool if Wolverine rules are still the same and no victory laps for beating Wolverine, Mag BH & HFC Multiballs.

I have had the misfortune of problems with STLE, and have talked with Stern Tech support over the past couple of days. We talked a little about code updates, and he said that he would talk to Jody about the communication issues.

If you talk to a Stern employee directly they do seem to care. I doubt they care what is written on Pinside.

It is unfortunate, and ultimately a bad business decision that someone at Stern is not an active Pinside participant. I see JPop, Jack, Rick, Charlie, and Ben post here and their own blog/websites providing good communication.

That I have no idea about.

More of the same half-arsed communication from stern. This type of transparency isn't useful to anyone. Name the games at least. Otherwise you get all sorts of weird expectations and dissapointment. How does anyone at stern see this as a good move?

I see what you did there.

Id give them a like on FB just for communicating about code. Even if its not precise info. It is a start. But i cant like the post cause im blocked.

"SAD BUT TRUE"...

First a disclaimer -- I don't own X Men, AC/DC, ST, TAV, TF or Met, but I've read all about the deficiencies in recent games and agree that Stern owes it to the owners to do something about it. $7k for unfinished goods is simply not acceptable.

That said ... Stern isn't stupid. They clearly know and understand the state of their code on many games and while I have no direct proof, I think we'd all agree that they are here on Pinside and other forums reading about it. There is just no excuse in my mind for them not to make a simple statement saying "we hear you and we're working on game x, y and z". They sort of did that on FB today, but it shouldn't take a Pinside thread of continual griping to get them to do that.

I even understand Stern not providing any kind of due dates. If they did that and then missed that date it would just create another crap storm here.

I don't know what's going on there, but a little, simple communication would go a long way. C'mon Stern -- just tell us what games are being worked on and that would probably be enough to keep everyone happy. Heck -- it might even help some distributors move some games in inventory that people aren't willing to buy because of the state of the code. Everyone wins.

I get not putting dates but at least tell me we are working on xxxx game, xxxx game, xxxx game then I know to expect it or not.

I obviously know Metallica and it sounds like X-men but no idea if anything else is truly being worked on(besides Star Trek more obviously)

Some update to Avengers, I dunno if it's just bug fixes (Thor flasher, slingshot power code) or more than that. But if it's just bug fixes and they mention it maybe people will read more into it and end up disappointed, I dunno.

I imagine every update they do has to be approved by the license holders in some way, maybe that makes talking about them harder.

What a silly "update."

They should both name the titles and broadly lay out what's being worked on (general bugs, this mode, that mode, whatever).

I understand why they don't state dates and I'd normally say that a company should keep it's product/engineering roadmaps private, but this is a case where customers have been waiting 6+ months for patches.

If WOF, then SOL.

I cant believe such a big company, which lets be honoust, makes a fantastic product, is this bad in communicating.

Its like if they dont care.

I thought they did this already...heavy metal mutants. I interpret that as MET and XM.

I've had a conversation with Gomez once about this very issue (when I bought Hulk LE). He really does want customers to be happy and complete code out there. Talked about testing code before it's released with avid players with Stern to ensure feedback from players perspective. Commented on wanting to do the right thing but putting out dates is a lose/lose for them if they need to slip due to changes/schedules. Understood online forums discontent. All sounded terrific and there is no question he is genuine in caring.

But while that conversation gave me confidence again in Stern and future codes - I haven't seen the change yet in behavior. That's what's bumming me out. I get not giving dates as they are lose/lose. But why not state which games will be getting code updates? I'm struggling to see the downside, other than if a game is not slotted for an update it MAY impact its sales. But that's a stretch. If the word on the street is code is incomplete on a game - speculation won't improve disti sales - only new code will. Seriously, what is the the downside?

I know we always find a reason to complain on pinside or RGP and viewed as never happy. To some extent it's true. We are a passionate bunch but sometimes we get what we ask for and still find a reason to gripe. But sticking your head in the sand hoping it will just go away is not smart in the "boutique" era with pinball competition.

I get Stern always states they want to keep the manufacturing facility constantly running to maintain jobs. That is a fact. And why they focus on new games to pump out to keep the engine going they can't slow down the factory and have designers focused on code of released games. The model is broken though guys. But that's hard to see when orders and pre-orders continue to come in from disti's falling over themselves to get the LE's for us. So in Gary's eyes, stick to the tried and true game plan. I think that's the rub. Gary versus rest of team that see the avalanche forming. Pure speculation my part but no designer is happy after pouring blood sweat and tears into a design with their name on it to hear a community speak loudly "Nice design but code stinks - not interested."

Jack may run into this problem too with wrapping up WOZ code while starting work on Hobbit. Interested to see how he handles it as all the companies seem to be chasing "finished code". At some point you need to say stop. I think we are all saying - just say it then instead of leaving us in the dark.

I still have hope Stern will correct this. Nice to see a post on FB but as others said - just go one step further and name the games. At least we'll know if ours is not on the list rather then getting more pissed later.

Ya the fact that we all have to "think" and "interpret" tells us we don't know cause they possibly played cute with it but no one knows.

I like those games with new announcements and stuff they do but not with code, just annoying at that point.

This is a well thought out statement, and one that I believe most of us totally agree with.
I do think that if they were to say what games they were working on, people who's games weren't being worked on code-wise might cause quite a stink, and possibly cost them customers down the line(but I also hope that they adopt the idea of full disclosure, but I'm not sure that they ever will.)

IMO, Stern management doesn't really care or respond to what a small part of their customer base says on pinside. If they did, they would have changed their release process already.

They most likely are responding to direct feedback from the whole customer base through emails/calls, etc to support.
They most likely are responding to feedback from distributors dealing with upset customers.
They most likely are responding to declining sales if they think software is the cause.

Stern's communication is bad but won't change until they perceive its hurting sales.

They can do it because they are the only game in town. Yes, JJP has made one game but it hasn't affected Stern yet.

Simple, hire more coders. Have Lyman and designer map out the planned rules, modes, light show, sound and wizards and let a mass of coders develop and test. It's called project management and supervision which seems like Stern is incompetent in its software area. They have individual talents but no means to leverage to multiple areas at once. They have no excuse for the price they charge. People need to talk with their wallets. I haven't bought a new pin in about 4 years due to my frustration with BDK (so close to being epic).

bmunn, it's not that simple, unfortunately... While I agree with your analysis here:

It's not fixed by:

because of this:

www.amazon.com/The-Inmates-Are-Running-Asylum/dp/0672326140

Stern should be looking for an excellent Product Manager who can lead software teams. The problem with that is, all the GOOD PMs out there are making much more than what Stern could offer them.

-Wes

Curious, anyone have a best guess at the percentage Pinsiders make up of Stern's total sales?

Before they changed the post it said they were only working on code for the last 3 games released.