Quoted from Pafasa:It is possible that this could just be a melted solenoid keeping the end of stroke switch from opening and disengaging the solenoid.
Take the plunger out set at zero should answer that.(process of elimination)^^^ Fire it up result?
I unplugged the jones box in the back box (see pictures). I didn't know there was one in the cabinet. If there is one I will unplug that and see if the relay opens. But I think you guys are dead on with those 2 targets.
I unplugged the junction in the cabinet (picture 2) and I turned the game on and the relay stayed open. (picture 3) Just for shits and giggles I unplugged the junction behind the one pictured and replug the other and turn the game on and the relay closed again. We found that unplugging that junction kept the relay open which means that the problem is on the playing field. I know for a fact that the 500 roll over point targets work fine but down score points, I know that the center kicker works fine but doesn't score 500 points but when special light is on it does score points.
Now we are wondering if those targets that spell T-R-A-V-E-L T-I-M-E are worth 500 points and the 2 of them that are broken could be the source of my closed relay and no points being added? YES? Are you sure that those targets are worth 500 points? I don't see anywhere on the playing field that lets the player know they are worth 500 points? So what I should do is contact some one who has a Travel Time pin and ask them?
I'm still only going to clean the reel plunger while waiting on the new parts to come in. (Leaf Switches and BakeLite Insulators?)I think the best way to me moving forward is taking one issue at a time and since you guys noticed the 2 broken targets those should be my first priority since we now know the problem is play field related.
// Error: Image 61652 not found // // Error: Image 61653 not found // // Error: Image 61654 not found // // Error: Image 61655 not found // 
Cabinet_Junction_Box.JPG Junction_UnPlugged.JPG Relay_Open.JPG
Great, Now we can be certain that the playfield is the problem. Go after those switches.
It doesnt matter if the targets score 100 or 500. Both of them are going to use the 100 point relay and the score motor to add either 100 or 500 to the 100 point reel. So, if any of the 100 or "500" point switches are stuck on and the score reel is locked up, none of the others will respond. Clean/adjust/repair all your playfield switches and free up that 100 point score reel and then test it all again. Then you will find out if they are in fact 500 point switches. You can try to find someone who has the same game as you if you like. It is really handy to have the exact same machine to compare with. Assuming theirs is working. But it is not necessary to know what the switches are worth.
I think we have figured it out. All play field switches are in working order except those 2 targets. You are right, when one of the targets are hit the motor does run. While playing and since I started to free up that dirty/sticky plunger by hand the hundred reel started to keep score every so often when the points went over 99. The hundred score reel's problem is that dirty/sticky plunger. The sleve is most likely that's causing it not to work.
Just a reminder, the 2 bumpers by the flippers still don't work at all but the top 4 do. I think we said that there is a break in the wire some where and the signal isn't reaching the relay in the back box.
Try replacing just the sleeve in the 100 point reel solenoid first and see if that frees it up. Sleeves are pretty cheap vs buying a new coil. Those two switches you referred to do not register any score or even turn on the score motor? If nothing happens when you hit those switches, then yes, look for a broken wire or connection in the wires for those switches.
Yeah, when the ball bounces off either one of the 2 lower bumpers nothing happens, no motor no points no click from the relay. It's a broken wire, the switches/contacts look just like the 4 upper bumpers.
I'd have to say for a pin that has been sitting on a porch for years and having some outside elements (rain/snow/heat) come in contact with it and completely covered in dirt, missing the power cord so to only need a few tweaks and new parts to get it back to fully working order amazes me!
Quoted from DJpHbalance:Yeah, when the ball bounces off either one of the 2 lower bumpers nothing happens,
Maybe get a schematic?
Easier for a wire trace from point A to Point B. (for the lower 2 targets)
Or a good eyeball and tugging on the wires for loose ones?
Hey Pin-It, those 2 lower bumpers wouldn't be part of the hundreds problem am I right? They score 10 points. I'm just trying to eliminate them as a possible cause to our closed relay problem and make a mental note that the lower bumpers are a seperate problem all together.
Quoted from DJpHbalance:those 2 lower bumpers wouldn't be part of the hundreds problem am I right?
Quoted from DJpHbalance:They score 10 points.
What happened with the upper left target that looked smashed in ,did that fix the problem cause it looks like that would be your trouble?
We unplugged the playfield yesterday and found out that the problem is in the playfeild and that those 2 broken targets are the cause of the closed relay.
I was just going to ask who sells those switches "whole/together" The Pin Resource dosen't carry Williams switches well at least I didn't find any. They had one for a Gotlieb or Balleys pin.
http://www.pbresource.com/pfbumpb.htm#switches
I am not going to be able to know for sure if those 2 target are causing all of the problems untill I replace them. As I stated earlier I am not going to "gerry-rig" something together in the hopes to fix my problem. I am going to fix the pin the correct way not half ass just to sell it to some one and then they start having problems shortly after.
Quoted from DJpHbalance:that those 2 broken targets are the cause of the closed relay.
Are the leaf switches sheared ? Just bend the contacts away from each other creating a gap otherwise that relay will stay on all the time possibly burning it up.
Quoted from DJpHbalance:I am not going to "gerry-rig" something together in the hopes to fix my problem.
No reason to .
See if the target assembly is here ---> http://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch;jsessionid=C56B51F6AD0CFB7D5D1B7DF6B1F4DCE2.jvm1?SEARCH_STRING=em+target+switch+assemblies
The switches are broken off thier "L" bracket that connects them to the playing field. I can either purchase some of those bakelite insulators and put them back together or purchase new switches all together. I rather purchase new switches it's only a few bucks more to do it that way.
I do have them working on the pin. When I push to turn them on manualy and when the ball hit's them they do light up and turn's the points motor on.
Quoted from DJpHbalance:I rather purchase new switches it's only a few bucks more to do it that way.
Scroll through the pages for the closest match and then call for compatibility.
Pinball resource does have switches for williams machines.
http://pbresource.com/pfswitch.htm#wmssu
If you don't see it there, just call them
Pinball life also has williams switches. This might be just the part you need
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=803
Quoted from Pin-it:Are the leaf switches sheared ? Just bend the contacts away from each other creating a gap otherwise that relay will stay on all the time possibly burning it up.
+1 If the switch leafs are in tact, just bend them back to shape and make sure the contacts are open. Then decide if you want to replace them.
Quoted from Pin-it:In the mean time isolate the contacts(separate) by putting a small piece of paper between to stop the relay from getting smoked.
AGREE!
Quoted from Pafasa:If you don't see it there, just call them
Pasafa is correct.
Their website does not show everything they carry only the most common parts as it would take forever to document all that Steve has.
Quoted from DJpHbalance:I am going to fix the pin the correct way not half ass just to sell it to some one and then they start having problems shortly after.
Hell, thats how I get my Pins cheap (not working) But I see you do not want to feel guilty selling one with issues. 
So de-soder those 2 targets to see if the relay opens? That I can do.
Possible replacement parts;
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/515-7497-06-01
Quoted from DJpHbalance:So de-soder those 2 targets to see if the relay opens? That I can do.
Yep ^^^^^
The first link for the target may work if it has the same length and the screw attachment has the same spread as the original ,just call for sizing compared to yours after measuring the old one first.
Pin-It what do you think of me un-sodering those 2 targets to see if the relay opens?
Another question, The tagets on top that spell T-R-A-V-E-L besides the "L" that is broken when the ball hits the "A" the "V" lights as well and vice-versa. I don't think that should happen. The "A" is on the other side of the playing field with the 3 drain lanes in the center and the "V" is to the right. Right?
The only action that they should share is to turn the "Special" light on.?
Sorry to keep throwing issues at you guys but I think you should know any and all issues so that you can give me yout best advice how to repair them.
Do you have a continuity meter? then I would probe at all the two leaf soldered wires to leaf switches and see if the meter tells you , see if there is a completed circuit ?(check all targets )then disable them by putting strips of paper between the contacts .
I assume that 500 point target L/S is damaged by looking at the picture causing your issue and if broken bad enough beyond repair then your only option is to replace the whole target as you feel the most comfortable replacing it and going that route saves you a headache.
But like I said check for compatibility first.
Quoted from Pin-it:The first link for the target may work if it has the same length and the screw attachment has the same spread as the original ,just call for sizing compared to yours after measuring the old one first.
LOL!!! I know right??!! Just think how hard it would be for me to get replacement plastics if any of them were broken. You know those funky blue-ish color nuts that hold the plastics in place? Do you know where I could get one? I also need the post.
I'll take the close-up shots of those tagets in a bit, just waking up. I think I'm a junkie now, huh? The first thing I do before anythging else is check to see what you guys might have added to help me out. I'm also starting to locate vintage pins in my area to purchase.
There is one thing I like better than pins,
My puppy Fergie!!
Look at that face! How could you say no to her??!!
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