(Topic ID: 77776)

Cliffy's. Must have... or overkill?

By MapleSyrup

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 71 posts
  • 45 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by annointed
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    View topic image gallery

    JP cliffy1.jpg
    JP pre cliffy1.jpg
    JP pre cliffy2.jpg
    Tiger Loop Touched Up.JPG
    Tiger Loop Wear.JPG
    sm.jpg

    There are 71 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 7 years ago

    I've been looking at these protectors for some time now. I can understand the desire to protect drop through areas of a playfield IE Neutral Zone in STTNG, and spots like the shire, and Gollum's cave on LOTR. I don't really understand why the magnet in STLE requires a metal ring around it? Please explain? Do magnets typically cause wear to the playfield around the area. I don't have any experience with a magnet on the playfield. Is there an example of a similar spot wearing on an older machine?? I'd appreciate any illumination on this.

    There seem to be people who insist that these are must haves. My impression was that on a HUO game, this might be overkill.

    I'd be interested in everybody's opinion.

    #2 7 years ago

    I've seen some pretty significant wear around magnet poles in Stern games.

    I use Cliffys. They provide good protection. Keep the games nice.

    #3 7 years ago

    Yes overtime magnets will wear around them on a Playfield. In example ironman, ripleys, Spider-Man, etc. The ball gets drawn to the magnets quick and it's a higher traffic area (key spot in game that used a lot)

    #4 7 years ago
    Quoted from ElectricCircuit:

    Yes overtime magnets will wear around them on a Playfield. In example ironman, ripleys, Spider-Man, etc. The ball gets drawn to the magnets quick and it's a higher traffic area (key spot in game that used a lot)

    Ok. That's good info. I'm just trying to balance the protection of a little wear with the way the protector changes the loo of the machine. I think it looks fine/cool in STLE. Looks very odd around the rollovers on WOZ for example.

    This is good to know

    #5 7 years ago

    Anybody have any images of wear around magnets?? Or rollover switches?

    #6 7 years ago

    Always use protection

    #7 7 years ago

    I don't know if overkill is the right word but I don't think they're as necessary as people let on, more of a "just in case so why not" situation, but I know in a few machines I've had I've taken them out because they cause so many airballs. South Park and GnR especially stick out in my mind as causing more problems than they help.

    I completely agree protect whatever you can whenever you can but not at the expense of game play.

    I'd say give them a shot and if they don't hurt anything then no harm done.

    #8 7 years ago

    I use them on older games that already have a small or bigger damage. On HUO new game i really dont se the point, but i guess it depends on how much you play?

    #9 7 years ago
    Quoted from MapleSyrup:

    Anybody have any images of wear around magnets?? Or rollover switches?

    sm.jpg

    Without protection you will get wear around the magnet even in home use. I used a mylar on my Avatar and it works fine so far.

    #10 7 years ago

    I bought the 10 piece set for WOZ, really needed the edge protector for the Munchkin playfield as it was taking a beating, the others I'm not sure if I'll use or not. Some games they are absolutely necessary for, such as the Mosh pit on Monster Bash, and the Electric Chair on Addams, but in most cases I'm not a fan of putting on a game until they show some wear.

    #11 7 years ago
    Quoted from dgpinball:

    but in most cases I'm not a fan of putting on a game until they show some wear.

    My feelings as well.

    I have none on Woz, not needed for me.

    My Lotr Le looks like it did the day it came out of the box with about 2k plays later. I have them for that game and will use them at some point.

    As for the shooter lane, I always just use "self adhesive laminating strips" that you can get from Office Depot. Works great.

    My SM magnet shows zero wear while the shooter lane does from the previous owner. I'd use mylar for the magnet area.

    #12 7 years ago

    Putting them on before any damage is like your grandma wrapping her furniture in plastic. I don't see the point unless a problem starts to appear, then you can deal with it on an as-needed basis.

    I'd feel different if I was operating a game and it was getting 10's of thousands of plays, since the wear is guaranteed. but even then your machine has made its money, so who cares.

    #13 7 years ago
    Quoted from dgpinball:

    in most cases I'm not a fan of putting on a game until they show some wear.

    Agreed. They are a great product to cover up when wear begins. To cover up a HOU game "just in case" when no wear has even started - what are you saving it for? I relish the look of that fresh new game for as long as I can. Sort of feels like putting plastic on a new couch you just bought. Why? Enjoy it first then protect it. But to each their own.

    #14 7 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    Putting them on before any damage is like your grandma wrapping her furniture in plastic.

    Too funny. I posted at the same time with same example.

    #15 7 years ago

    For us that have never owned a brand new machine, Cliffy protectors are pretty much an expected purchase. Bought them for my haunted house, funhouse and black knight. They really clean up a worn playfield hole. My newest machine, Whodunnit, seems to not have the wear that the older machines have. Not sure if they make cliffy protectors for whodunnit anyway. Would have thought that the diamond plating done on the newer playfields would have them holding up a lot better.

    #16 7 years ago

    Just look at how much importance is placed on *perfect* shooter lanes, scoops, etc....here and you can see why people put them on before wear happens. (Especially if you may sell the game later. Wear on scoops and such will get you less money.)

    I have Cliffy's on all my games, and will continue to do so.

    #17 7 years ago

    I use the some protectors on all my game. If a ramp protector is available i use it. I did get the set for WOZ but i won't use all 10 pieces. I also use the Stern Magnet area protectors.

    #18 7 years ago

    I think that for a new machine (for HUO) the eject/shooter lane combo, ramp protectors are a must if the factory didn't use them. I've noticed that magnets are often poorly adjusted and that creates a lot of the wear. Scoops are the place that I think the cliffys are less attractive so I think the mantis are awesome. My tron with ~2k plays shows zero scoop with just the mantis.

    #19 7 years ago

    They aren't must haves, but are nice-to-haves.

    If i was looking over a game and saw cliffy's on it, I would note two things: 1. What is under the cliffys, 2. this person probably took a little better care of the game because they took the time/money to put them on.

    #20 7 years ago
    Quoted from MapleSyrup:

    Anybody have any images of wear around magnets??

    A before and after on my former TOTAN...

    Tiger Loop Wear.JPG

    Tiger Loop Touched Up.JPG

    #21 7 years ago

    How many people have removed cliffy protectors that were installed to protect no damage? Did you find that the ball bouncing off the cliffy actually caused damage to the playfield at the edges of the metal and where dirt got under the cliffy? Does it do the same kind of thing the old gottlieb mylar rings did, protecting the immediate area but moving the point of damage outward half an inch?

    One of those things, I get if you're covering up past damage to hide it but for the average home collector proper maintenance of your machine will avoid wear issues. Clean and wax your game.

    #22 7 years ago

    I may be overly worried about scoop protectors and the ball banging those, getting nicked up, and causing more damage to the play field. Shooter lane more important for protection right away imo.

    If I was buying an older title and I saw Cliffy's installed I'd still want to know whether or not it was "HUO" and "low plays" or not. In most areas I think mylar/self laminating strips can do the job, imho and no offense to Cliffy and those that love using them.

    Change and check your balls frequently as well. That will prevent more damage than anything.

    #23 7 years ago
    Quoted from gamestencils:

    How many people have removed cliffy protectors that were installed to protect no damage? Did you find that the ball bouncing off the cliffy actually caused damage to the playfield at the edges of the metal and where dirt got under the cliffy? Does it do the same kind of thing the old gottlieb mylar rings did, protecting the immediate area but moving the point of damage outward half an inch?
    One of those things, I get if you're covering up past damage to hide it but for the average home collector proper maintenance of your machine will avoid wear issues. Clean and wax your game.

    I take off the protectors (if possible) when I shop games and have never found any sort of damage.

    In fact, the only damage I have ever seen was on Cliffy protectors where people did not fill in the previous damage, and the protector got bent out of shape.

    #24 7 years ago

    This is all really great feedback. I appreciate everybody chiming in. I'm personally not adverse to a little wear, unless it starts to affect game play in anyway. Great insights.

    #25 7 years ago

    I put one on my ST:TNG and I'm in the camp that thinks its
    not really needed for home use pins. It did change gameplay.
    They are great for games that already have some wear.
    Steve

    #26 7 years ago

    I'm in the process of removing 2 Cliffys from my AFM (I bought the 4 piece set and installed a few weeks ago). The target protector in front of the force field causes the ball to jump just enough to clear the drop target in the back about 50% of the time. And balls too frequently get stuck on the lip of the rear SOL protector after making it past the pop bumpers. I'll probably keep the Cliffys around the drop target and the front SOL since they don't seem to interfere with gameplay.

    I would like to note that this is on a relatively new (and un- re-shopped/re-cleared) Mirco playfield, which we know is not identical to OEM, so the Cliffy's don't fit perfectly, and that may well be why they seem to be interfering more with play than I expected. The Cliffys seem to be designed for a slightly thinner playfield than mine... They probably work a lot better on an OEM playfield.

    If I had it to do over again, I'd wait until I saw some wear before I bought any Cliffys...the earlier plastic-covered couch is a pretty good analogy...

    #27 7 years ago

    Another example around the kick out holes on my JP. Just installed them this morning. Speaks for itself I think.JP pre cliffy2.jpgJP pre cliffy1.jpgJP cliffy1.jpg

    #28 7 years ago

    Cliffy's are a must have for my games. Get them.

    #29 7 years ago

    I have them on my two games. I think the shooter lane ones are must haves. That area takes a beating multiple times a game. I get the trough eject hole and the right hand rail protectors. No effect on gameplay and just helps preserve your shooter lane playfield area. No brainer for a few bucks.

    #30 7 years ago

    No short answer possible here, since -- Cliffy has a bunch of different product lines.

    1) I use his flipper return guides on almost all my 1980's machines to give me like-new ball travel towards the flippers, which to me is the most important aspect of the game. I can't think of a more important after-market purchase I've made. It's my #1 most-looked-forward-to purchase whenever I have a new acquisition.

    2) I use the long flat "flaps" that replace stock flaps, like in Centaur. I think the stainless steel improves the look.

    3) I do like Cliffy's for holes/cellars, so I have Cliffy's on my Whirlwind and Black Knight. In some cases, it's improving the look as well. Some games look better with more stainless steel in them. Black Knight and Centaur are two good examples of that.

    4) As for protecting inlanes, I'm not a fan of seeing metal in the inlanes, so I skip those inlane protectors, regardless of the wear. My feeling is I should eventually learn to repair those areas.

    5) Colored post rubbers. I just buy kits, and so I never pay attention to where my colored posts come from.

    In short, he has a lot of products, and you should try them all out, and see which ones you like the most. Just buy more of the ones you like a lot.

    -mof

    #31 7 years ago

    $8000 for a new pin. $20 for a couple shooter lane protectors.
    If it's a waste of money, it's a very small waste.
    After 10 months, the paint on my shooter lane was chipping.
    No biggie, but I love keeping my pins as new looking as possible.
    Definitely easier to sell if there's nothing wrong with them.

    #32 7 years ago
    Quoted from dendoc:

    Another example around the kick out holes on my JP. Just installed them this morning. Speaks for itself I think.

    JP pre cliffy2.jpg 208 KB

    JP pre cliffy1.jpg 219 KB

    JP cliffy1.jpg 281 KB

    I would strongly recommend rebuilding the wear with some epoxy or wood putty. Eventually those protectors will bend to match the wear. My buddy had this happen on his afm and mb. I had it happen on my gnr.

    #33 7 years ago
    Quoted from dsuperbee:

    I would strongly recommend rebuilding the wear with some epoxy or wood putty. Eventually those protectors will bend to match the wear. My buddy had this happen on his afm and mb. I had it happen on my gnr.

    An when they bend the result is unplayable. I had to replace mine within a couple months. So easy but so necessary to use some wood putty. I used that 2 part wood stuff.

    #34 7 years ago

    It all depends on the game. There are some games where they are a must. Others, more for looks. Either way, I am glad that he is out there doing great work.

    #35 7 years ago

    I think they are great. Some hinder the ball a little but overall very good product for protecting your pins from wear.

    #36 7 years ago
    Quoted from dgpinball:

    Some games they are absolutely necessary for, such as the Mosh pit on Monster Bash

    I absolutely abhor the mosh pit cliffy. No other cliffy affects game play like that one. I had a black line mosh cliffy and it still affect ball travel. I swapped a near perfect playfield with a hep one **just** so my mosh hole was perfect then I installed a mantis. No more goofy ball travel created by the cliffy.

    #37 7 years ago

    No need for protectors on HUO or NIB games. I would use them to cover up existing damage just for aesthetic reasons.

    #38 7 years ago

    Cliffs are great not just for protection, but for covering up damage that is already done. Makes the pin look less trashed.

    Two thumbs up.

    #39 7 years ago

    I'm a Cliffy fan. Like that is covers up existing wear & also protects the playfield from new wear. I know not everyone is a fan, but heck if you don't like them, then just remove them when you purchase a game from me.

    #40 7 years ago

    Those hole protectors are awful (IMO) mostly because those disturbs normal game play. It won't take many games when that paper-thin metal starts to form to same shape as wood beneath and edges rises from playfield and makes scoops harder to hit. In the other hand I think that those "inside scoop" protectors works fine, playfield is mostly protected from wear and those won't have affect on game play.

    Example of good protector:
    http://www.marcospecialties.com//images/products/HG-11/large.jpg

    One big issue with these "over playfield protectors" is that those are often used just to cover wear. And for some reason it's marked as plus when selling game, I really don't understand how. I would always like to see actual condition of playfield when buying, especially with "premium" titles.

    At home use I don't see much reason to put anything extra to games, keeping playfield clean and replacing balls occasionally does the trick.

    Cliffys post sleeves are great, looking good and easy to clean. Other products I haven't tried so can't make any judgement...

    #41 7 years ago

    I like Cliffy's. Cliffy's are thin, but if you have an area where you're getting deflections of slower moving balls, there is a trick you can do with some small strips of Mylar. You can get some 2 mil thick mylar from Pinrestore.com, and you can cut it into strips of varying widths (all relatlively thin), and you can lay down the thickest width first butted up to the edge of the Cliffy, then you put a strip that slightly narrower on top of the first strip, over and over again, until you effectively build up a ramp of mylar to the Cliffy, which makes for a nice ramped transition that doesn't mess with ball travel.

    LOL, probably sounds like quite a bit of work. But if you want the protection, and have an area where you notice some unwanted deflections and redirections, this method has worked for me. Plus, the little mylar ramps are pretty much invisible. The mylar ramps are also easy to remove.

    #42 7 years ago
    Quoted from johnwartjr:

    I've seen some pretty significant wear around magnet poles in Stern games.
    I use Cliffys. They provide good protection. Keep the games nice.

    Keeps the games nice for who? The next owner?

    If I own a new game, why would I want to make it look like a game where there might be damage? And If your going to cover the area anyway, who cares if the area is damaged of not?

    Cliffys for damaged games...why bother otherwise?

    Quoted from Chambahz:

    $8000 for a new pin. $20 for a couple shooter lane protectors.
    If it's a waste of money, it's a very small waste.
    After 10 months, the paint on my shooter lane was chipping.
    No biggie, but I love keeping my pins as new looking as possible.
    Definitely easier to sell if there's nothing wrong with them.

    If the cliffy is covering the "new looking" paint in the shooter lane, how can you say its "looking new"? This is such a chicken and egg thing. I agree with those that put cliffs on to cover damage. I don't see the point in protection if the protected "look" makes the damage irrelevant. But if you intend to sell your game for top dollar, and looking at a new game with wear areas that look the same as a damaged game (because it has a cliffy) doesn't bother you, use them.

    I finally put a cliffy on my IM shooter lane. The game is perfect, but the left side of the lane groove was showing a hint of indentation. I decided to spend $12 on the cliffy as opposed to having some dork try to talk $300 off of my game because of shooter lane "damage" when I sell it.

    #43 7 years ago
    Quoted from Rum-Z:

    I like Cliffy's. Cliffy's are thin, but if you have an area where you're getting deflections of slower moving balls, there is a trick you can do with some small strips of Mylar. You can get some 2 mil thick mylar from Pinrestore.com, and you can cut it into strips of varying widths (all relatlively thin), and you can lay down the thickest width first butted up to the edge of the Cliffy, then you put a strip that slightly narrower on top of the first strip, over and over again, until you effectively build up a ramp of mylar to the Cliffy, which makes for a nice ramped transition that doesn't mess with ball travel.

    I had a thought when I woke up this morning, but isn't it possible to route some wood that's the thickness of the Cliffy? That way, one could insert it basically flush? I would guess, apart from the complexity of doing that yourself, there may be other issues with doing it that way, but it would make for a pretty smooth transition I would think. In practice, I won't ever attempt that Only place I could see that working well would be an OEM. Also disclaimer: I'm new to pinball collecting and don't have a machine yet, and it's before coffee - so this is probably a terrible idea

    #44 7 years ago

    I disagree with no cliffys until you see wear. With how much people bitch and complain on here about wear on their pf, or the shooter lane of all places, why not protect your investment and have it mint for a future sale?

    In my opinion, Cliffys look great.

    #45 7 years ago

    I won't/wouldn't add cliffys to a playfield that isn't damaged. I like the clean look without them.

    #46 7 years ago

    I took the time to remove the left ramp and all the plastics underneath it to install the jukebox/bell protector on Luci before my first play, thats how much I believe in them. I also mylar'd&3 piece cliffy'd the shooter lane.

    Its true these are your games and you can make your own decision, but there is a good chance you are probably going to trade/sell it in the future, wouldnt you want the machine to retain its highest value?

    #47 7 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    I took the time to remove the left ramp and all the plastics underneath it to install the jukebox/bell protector on Luci before my first play, thats how much I believe in them. I also mylar'd&3 piece cliffy'd the shooter lane.
    Its true these are your games and you can make your own decision, but there is a good chance you are probably going to trade/sell it in the future, wouldnt you want the machine to retain its highest value?

    I'm sure people think twice when they go buy a game with protectors on it. I think if you can keep the playfield in good shape rather than adding cliffys everywhere, you'll get more money for it. I understand they can prevent future damage, but damn, like others said, that's like putting covers over brand new seats.

    #48 7 years ago
    Quoted from domijr:

    I think if you can keep the playfield in good shape rather than adding cliffys everywhere, you'll get more money for it.

    Please load up a pic of your Simpsons shooter lane for us.

    #49 7 years ago
    Quoted from domijr:

    I'm sure people think twice when they go buy a game with protectors on it. I think if you can keep the playfield in good shape rather than adding cliffys everywhere, you'll get more money for it. I understand they can prevent future damage, but damn, like others said, that's like putting covers over brand new seats.

    Out of curiosity, how does one keep, say, the ball scoop on STTNG's Neutral Zone in good shape? How do you prevent and repair that sort of wear? This isn't pandering, it's a legitimate question because, apart from a Cliffy (or maybe trying some Mylar?) I don't know what the alternatives are.

    #50 7 years ago

    Those shitty floral seats of your aint guna retain its value like your pin will in 30y!

    There are 71 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside