(Topic ID: 137689)

Cleaning and Waxing Pinball Machines - Vid's Guide

By vid1900

8 years ago


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    Post #51 A list of pretenders. Posted by vid1900 (8 years ago)

    Post #77 Wax Recommendation Posted by vid1900 (8 years ago)

    Post #1237 Playfield protectors Posted by vid1900 (6 years ago)

    Post #1954 Opening a jar of blitz Posted by vid1900 (2 years ago)


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    You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider jeremy8419.
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    #1121 6 years ago

    Just reread the guides.

    Why naptha? You state a bunch of reasons for why naptha and not other stuff, but all of those reasons exist for naptha as well.

    I'm not stating this from an "I've tried this a bunch" standpoint, because I haven't, which is why I am reading the guide so I can clean/wax, but just from an objective observation. Naptha isn't a chemical, but rather a loose generalization of a mixture of chemicals of unknown and highly variable composition. It's a petroleum distillate, so every post that states "don't use petroleum distillates" and "because that's a petroleum distillate" makes no sense, even less so when you consider that the composition of naphtha contains an unknown quantity of very bad chemicals which are toxic and carcinogenic instead of any high purity chemical. This makes even less sense when you add in the fact that it's an actual fuel that you're working with. This makes even less sense when you consider that part of the chemical composition of the naphtha chemical mixture you are using is the ACTUAL chemical which is fulfilling the intended purpose in the intended manner you desire which you could then just buy in a distilled form. Idk. Actually making all these various chemicals IRL for a living makes the whole "naphtha" argument make no logical sense. As a starting point for "hey this stuff works"? Yeah. But after that the logic with "naphtha" seems to go out the window.

    I searched Acetone in the thread after reading through the guides and saw the aforementioned cases of inconsistent logic, but something like acetone makes more sense.

    #1123 6 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    We use Naphtha (or more specifically, Varnish Makers & Painters Naphtha ) to de-wax a playfield because Naphtha has properties that other solvents don't have.
    Naphtha DOES NOT dissolve or cloud Lacquer, Urethane or 2PAC.
    Naphtha DOES NOT cloud playfield plastics or ramps.
    Naphtha DOES NOT raise the grain of bare wood.
    Naphtha DOES NOT leave a trace of ANY petroleum behind once it evaporates.
    I can't think of any other common solvent that has all the above properties, can you?
    -
    Acetone ruins Lacquer and clouds most plastics.
    Alcohol ruins Lacquer and raises the grain of wood.
    Lacquer Thinner clouds Urethane 2PAC, most plastics and melts Lacquer.
    Methyl Ethel Keytone eats everything it touches, including epoxy finishes.
    -
    So out of any common solvent we can buy at Woodcraft, Home Depot or the auto paint store, VM&P Naphtha is our choice.
    Auto refinishers, guitar repair shops and LSD labs all depend on it every day.

    https://s26.postimg.org/hem3vv1eh/wp_ss_20170902_0002.png

    You're primarily using it, because it's a fast evaporating liquid hydrocarbon, which is why some stated they use lighter fluid, which is butane. In this case, its either the toluene or the smxylene which you like. Naphtha, regardless of who uses it, contains benzene, which is a legit bad chemical for causing cancer, similar to asbestos and it's effects on the lungs. In the oil and gas and chemicals industries, benzene is a chemical which has giant warning signs all over the place and has lots of testing done to make sure it isn't going to the environment.

    That up there ^ should say toluene and xylene. On my phone and wont let me go back and edit.

    Found this: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/A_Primer_on_Solvents
    I'd take the suitable method that doesn't include benzene, which would be buying xylene and then diluting with toluene, if you want it to be faster drying. Depending on the solution, I'd probably put it in a spray bottle, spray the field, then wipe dry.

    #1127 6 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Xylene and Toluene are excellent solvents, but they can cloud water based finishes, like if someone touched up a shooter lane or saucer with Varathane in the past.
    Don't even think of bringing Xylene near a modern finish acoustic guitar like a Seagull
    There are a zillion solvents on the shelf at HD, but the least risky one for cleaning what you might likely encounter on a pinball (or guitar) is Naphtha.

    I think you're missing the point, though... Naphtha IS Xylene and Toluene. The image I provided shows the composition of Naphtha. Mostly xylene, toluene, pentane, hexane, cyclohexane, heptane.

    -2
    #1129 6 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    I must be missing your point.
    All anyone on this thread is worried about is just that the product will remove wax and is safe for finishes commonly found in pinball machines.
    All anyone is worried about in a guitar shop is that it's safe for all guitar finishes.
    All anyone is worried about when making LSD is that it evaporates completely.
    All anyone is worried about when painting a car is that it de-waxes and does not leave any oils behind.
    If you feel you need to use pure Toluene or Hexane on your pinball machine because Naphtha is not strong enough, I suggest you test a few inconspicuous areas and make sure you don't get any softening of the top coat. Remember that 4 different companies may have made the same playfield for Williams in a single year. All may have some chemical variations in their finishes.
    If you are worried about toxic ingredients in a certain brand of Naphtha, most brands I have in the shop don't even break it down.
    For instance, the Kleen Strip VM&P Naphtha that everyone buys at HD and Woodcraft, says on the can it's 95-100% "Petroleum Ether" with a boiling point of 242*F.
    Sunnyside VM&P Naphtha that they sell at AutoMart says it contains 99% Extra Light Aliphatic Naphtha.

    Naphtha has benzene in it. Benzene bad. Bad bad.

    -2
    #1132 6 years ago
    Quoted from klr650:

    VM&P Naphtha
    CAS # 64742-89-8
    Composition:
    33% Paraffins
    67% Napthenes (cycloparaffins)
    0.2% Aromatics
    < 0.0002% Benzene
    That doesn't seem like a lot of Benzene does it?

    Nope.

    Still doesn't make the rest of the argument make sense, though, because that's even more of the other stuff.

    Minus benzene, you're left with the other stuff.

    So, what is it that is the "good stuff"?

    #1137 6 years ago

    I was going easy... That brand is 30% xylene, 30% toluene, 30% acetone. Case dismissed.

    #1139 6 years ago
    Quoted from xsvtoys:

    Hell in the old days we used to throw that straight benzene around right and left, slop it all over our hands, it was everywhere. Not sure why I'm not dead yet actually.

    Yeah, I was gonna mention that lmao.

    #1141 6 years ago
    Quoted from jibmums:

    I worked in a screen printing department in the late 90's, used to wash the ink off the screens, and then wash my hands, with benzene, xylene, xylol, lacquer thinner, anything we had around. I'm a ticking cancer time bomb.

    Don't forget the herpes!

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