I've switched to P21S Concours-look. I've tried to leave stains on the posts and rubbers and it just won't do it. Easy to buff out too.

p21s_(resized).PNG

http://www.amazon.com/P21S-12700W-Carnauba-Wax/dp/B002LOP5E4

I saw someone else post about this earlier...this stuff is amazing. Expensive, but no abrasives or additives and leaves no marks. Highly recommended:

P21S Concours Carnauba Wax Combo Pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CUUZGVU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_frVCxbBS2MJAR

From the P21S amazon page: "This unique carnauba-beeswax blend" ... Interesting, it has beeswax in it!

Yep. P21S Concours is easy peasy:
Cat_(resized).jpg

I think you can get P21S in Sweden.

Swisswax.se seems to be the only one that have that in store, appearently, otherwise P21S is a set of good headphones

Gee and I thought P21S silver at $54 was expensive....

https://www.amazon.com/New-P21S-100%25-Carnuba-6-2oz/dp/B00CI1D2HM/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1469832966&sr=1-3&keywords=p21s+carnauba+wax

But its actually 100% carnauba

Ok thanks. It was straight from the factory. I'll check with other WOZ owners to see if they have had a similar experience. I also want to try that P21S stuff (another WOZ owner swears by it), but man it's expensive.

I used to use Blitz, then it became hard to get, So I picked up some P21S 100% pure carnauba from amazon (silver can).
I really like it. Goes on like butter, dries fast, leaves no white dust flakes. Buffs hard a nails, incredible shine.
The JJP factory uses mist and shine as a final detailing on all the pins. I have that also, but its not a wax. I only use it for quick touchups if I take off the glass. Its a lot like a slightly heavier novus 1, works on plastics and ramps too.

Did you have the problem I described with Blitz where it seemed to wear off quickly? If so, is P21S any better?

Fair point. I believe I read earlier that naptha is safe with mylar, correct?

Your game is too new to need any serious cleaning.
I didnt do a serious shop job on my WOZ until I had 2000 plays.

In my experience, wax has to take hold. 3 or 4 waxings over time, not all at once.
I think this is because of surface oils and such like vid says.

The thinner the wax the better more effective protection.

I always wax twice but only because I miss areas completely, that I want to protect.

Yes you can strip the PF and get serious, but regular waxing will absorb minor oily crap (fingerprints etc.) off the PF without tearing into it with naptha on a brand new game.

I use naptha only to remove old dirty wax, my game is too new for that yet. Now a 20 or 30 year old game, that is way different!

At 5000 plays I will have to strip the PF to polish out the ball tracks. Naptha then to clean off all the polishing compund and old dead wax, then 2 coats if P21S and power buff the whole surface.

Im estimating this based on the current wear and tear I see on my game.

Ok, I just cleaned my playfield with naptha and then applied a fresh coat of blitz wax. I waited 30 minutes, did Vid's finger test to make sure the wax was dry, and then buffed the whole playfield. The playfield felt fairly slick, though not as slick as my Stern Star Trek. I played a game and noticed streaks of wax after I finished. (See below picture.) I felt the playfield again, and it didn't feel quite as slick. When I wax Star Trek, the game is almost unplayable for 50 games or so until some of the wax wears away. With WOZ, which admittedly is a slower game to begin with, while the game was a bit faster, I could definitely play it easily. I didn't notice the fresh wax as much as with other pins. So, do those streaks mean something? Could there be something about the clear they are using that makes wax stick to it less? I next want to try P21S, but would be interested in hearing people's thoughts first.

PostWax1Game_(resized).JPG

S100 - P21S's brother. Half the cost. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-truly-great-product-p21s-wax-a-new-standard#postbox

Ok. Thanks. At some point I'll try the P21S and report if I notice different results.

Just got done using P21S for the first time. Goes on very easily and does not have any extra wax flakes you see from time to time with blitz. However I wonder if it will hold up as long as blitz does. Doesn't seem to be as rugged from the application process and doesn't seem to harden as much as blitz. Game looks great and is slick though.

It wasn't a joke. I'm dead serious.
Before I got it I did buy some P21S carnauba wax (is it good) ?
If I should be waxing and it's a decent wax, I'll try waxing.
Thanks.

FWIW, buy S100. It's EXACTLY the same thing as P21S, at like half the cost. It's a branding thing (marketing genius if I may say so). Much like the way many of Aldi's products are name brand food products, at a fraction of the price, relabeled to cater to a different demographic. Anyways, same container, same top, same 100% white carnauba, with a different removable label and branded instruction card under the cap.

If you put too thick a coat of wax then you will get a lot of dust.
Really you just need the thinnest coat to do the job. Contrary to popular opinion you cant "build up" wax coats. If you did it would all grind off with the ball rolling on it anyway.

If you dont like Blitz then maybe use P21S pure carnauba in the silver can. It leaves little or no residue even if you put a little too much on, and no dust to speak of.

Also P21S goes on butter smooth so you can apply super thin coats.

Hi-Gloss has to do with the lack of micro scratches and a hard finish.
Careful machine buffing of the clearcoat with a variety of mild abrasives ( very mild!) to take out the micro scratches, and an application of a super hard wax like blitz or p21s and then buffed will produce a shine.

Its easy however to rub through the clear and destroy the finish especially if its old and worn.

Cheap liquid canauba wont shine at all compared to 100% carnauba, it just wipes off.

Older finishes might not have the hardness of more modern finishes but they are more chip resistant.
They can look dull with age as they wear or pick up a lot of micro scratches from cleaning and over-all use.

You get a more satin sheen which isnt bad, just not hard and glossy.

So, people clear over them to freshen things up a bit, and buff.

I like to buff the wax with a felt pad or rag to shine it up after the wax dries for awhile.

I have used that wax before, its ok but doesnt last very long.
Its like 50% solvent. It does a good job of clearing old wax as you apply it but leaves too much white dust for me.

I switched to P21S (silver can) and will never go back. Its perfect for me and leaves extremely little white dust.
And Its higher wax to solvent ratio leaves more wax down on the playfield.
It dries rock hard and lasts for weeks on my games that get a fair amount of play.

Others like the Blitz 1000 wax. Its also very good but leaves a fair amount of white dust that you have to vacuum off.

This stuff?

https://www.amazon.com/New-P21S-100-Carnuba-6-2oz/dp/B00CI1D2HM/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1522348354&sr=8-10&keywords=p21s+wax

https://store.carcareonline.com/onegrandblitzcarnaubawax-15ozcan.aspx

This is a pretty good cleaner wax.
It has more solvent than I require though.

Right now I just clean off the old wax then apply a very high solids pure carnauba like blitz or P21S.

I like the outcome better and the non-cleaner wax seems longer lasting and harder.

The P21S silver can is the one you want.
The blue can is half beeswax, cheaper but not as good as the 100% carnauba in the silver can.

Hi there. Congrats on your upcoming purchase!

I’m relatively new to this hobby — about 4 plus years in — so understand your nervousness and confusion. I was the same way. I now own two older machine and two games I bought new. I bought a third pin new but recently sold it. So, let me reassure you.

First, just take a deep breath and remember that even if you play a lot of games at home — and you will play a lot at first — it will be no where near the level that a pin gets played on location. You are very unlikely to see any wear to your machine even if you don’t wax for months. Does that mean you shouldn’t wax? No. It just means that when you get your game, just play it and enjoy and then wax when you can. Use blitz or P21S. Both are excellent. You need only apply a tiny amount. It should be barely visible when you apply it. Just enough to create a slight haze when it dries. Then buff off. Just get the easy to reach areas. No need to do a full tear down for a long time.

Wax every 3-6 months. In between waxings, vacuum up dust. If needed, use Novus 1, not 2. Change your balls every 3-6 months as well. It is a cheap thing to do and can potentially create issues if you don’t.

And just enjoy. All three of my NIB games looked like new years after I bought them. Is it beacause I waxed? Maybe. It is more because I played them In the home and only put on 1,000-2,000 games instead of 10,000 like they would get on location. NIB games including yours come with a protective layer of clear coat. It is not a wax, so you should still wax. But it does protect the paint. And you can relax. You’ll figure it out and not do any harm to your pin.

Enjoy!

no one uses that.

use blitz 1000 or P21S silver.

Thank you. I read again and again. I'm getting a new machine soon. I'm going to wipe it down with new microfiber cloth. Put on some p21s silver wax with microfiber cloth. Going to install mylar in critical areas. Do you think 4 mil would be acceptable over the 3? Really appreciate your knowledge and help. Thanks for responding quickly. I can see you take a little bit of abuse from reading the thread but when you spell it out factually it's hard to ignore.

@pinballinreno,

I recall this comment from you:

"Mist n shine is silicone free. JJP uses if for the final wipe down on all games. Its rated for clearcoat.
A lot of us use it for between waxing "touch-ups", and you can use it on plastics too."

I'm still an advocate of this product...

Is it okay to START "waxing" with this product after X games? Or do I really want something like blitz or P21S from the get go?

Also, can you help me with the difference between in-lanes and out-lanes. And mylar? This is used to protect these lanes or something??

Thanks so much!!

Use blitz or P21S silver.
Mist n shine isn't a wax, it's a cleaning fluid.

Email Cliff directly for what you want.

All coil stops and sleeves wear down after awile.

Flipper coil stops an sleeves wear down the fastest.

As they wear the angle of the flipper bat changes.

I change the flipper coil stops when they wear down 1/16" or more as it changes game play and I like the flippers to feel fresh and play properly.

Generally 2-3 thousand games on flipper stops and sleeves unless they get sticky.

Check the plungers also at this time and file off any mushrooming or replace them if they look bad.

Mylar over any place that the ball drops on or any unprotected edge that gets a lot of ball traffic.

When I do a serious cleaning or maintenance every 1500 games I pull the flipper coil stops, clean the sleeves with naptha and make an assessment.

I appreciate this.

So Blitz OR P21S Silver? Which do you use? Are they really so interchangeable that it simply doesn't matter?

So much to learn man..

So now the flippers have coil stops as well? I really need to do my homework and understand visually what a "coil" is...

Also, is it fair that some of this stuff depends solely on the pin you own?
Like I don't know how many sleeves or w/e my table will have.

Thanks!

You are getting a brand new game.
Parts maintenance is quite away in the future.

Play it awhile and wax it after about 20 games.
Blitz wax and P21S are interchangeable.
Blitz is much cheaper.

I second @pinballinreno's sage advice. I use Blitz, but hear P21S is just as good.

I especially like the advice of playing a few games before waxing. Mostly so you get a good feel for the game first and then can say "holy shit" once you wax it and the balls are just flying around like a bat out of hell. It never ceases to amaze me when I have a game I haven't waxed in 5-6 months and am getting used to the play and then I wax it and balls are just zinging!!

I was new to this once. For some reason, most of my machines are neglected when I buy them. I always vacuum with a soft paint brush, Naphtha, Novus 2 then wax. After that, it is just lightly vacuum, and wax as needed. I try for once a month or ever 2 months depending on how much play the kids give the machines. I bought the P21S wax only because I couldn't combine the Blitz with another order.

I own a boat, the discussions about wax, detailing, brands, methods, etc go on forever. Sorry, I don't have time to compound, claybar, wax, polish, apply detail spray, etc. I like to use and enjoy my toys. A spray of detail spray here and there and wipe down after every use prevents water spots. I spray the interior once or twice a year to prevent suntan lotion stains. I enjoy it more than I work on it. Much like my pins.

or P21S which is even better than Blitz.

I use P21S, but you can't go wrong with either.

I’ve used both p21s and blitz and I believe blitz is easier to use and lasts longer

I'm currently using Meguiar's Gold Class carnuba wax on my games. Prior to this, I had been using Millwax (i.e. silicone based). What I've noticed is that when I used Millwax, the playfield was slick as snot... but it didn't last all that long. Maybe after 40-50 game plays, I could start to notice it just wasn't as slick. When using the Meguiar's wax, I can't say that it ever seemed as slick as the Millwax. In fact, I can see a spinning ball gain traction on a playfield and curve a different direction even after a fresh waxing, whereas when I used Millwax, ball traction on the playfield seemed less. Gotta say, even though I try to keep my games clean and waxed, that ball traction on the playfield worries me a bit of the playfield being potentially worn. Am I worrying too much or would you recommend ditching the Meguiar's stuff and go with something like Blitz or P21s? Is the traction thing typical of carnuba waxed playfields more so than silicone waxed; are others noticing this? BTW, the only reason why I stopped using Millwax was because of reading Vid's write-up on why he doesn't like silicone waxes. A buddy of mine basically said, just wax it on a regular occasion and don't worry about it.

Dont bother with novus 1 or novus 3.

Use mist n shine and novus2.

Use novus 2 for heavy ball tracks that wint wipe off, followed with pure carnauba like blitz 1000 or P21S silver.

Other than that, VM&P Naptha to clean mechanical parts and badly soiled playfied targets and such.

Always re-wax the playfield in areas that naptha was used as a cleaner. It readily removes wax.

Oddly naptha wont harm anything on the playfield.

Because its not as renewable as i would like, i say dont bother.

The thing about pinball if that once in awhile you want to strip the surface and reapply.

I like pure carnauba because its easy to remove with naphtha.

Im working on a game right now that has a Synthetic polymer ceramic clone wax on it.

The dirt embedded itself into the coating and is near impossible to clean off.

There was a permanent black haze that looked like smoke damage throughout the surface.

This was not smoke or fire damage. Simply black pinball dust embedded into the ceramic glaze.

Naptha wont remove it.

I had to completely strip the playfield.

I had to apply rubbing compound to wear off the coating.

Then i had to buff for hours with a combination of compunds and glaze lotions to get the shine back.

What should have been a 1 hour job took 3 days to complete.

So ask the manufacturer if the ceramic coating resists finely ground metal filings continuously rolled into the surface with a heavy steel ball.

Then ask if the coating is fast and easy to remove once its stained with embedded powdered tool steel.

Pure carnauba suits pinball use extremely well.

Blitz or P21S silver can is what you want.

That happens. Try to vacuum them up. For what it is worth, I find I get fewer flakes by using P21S than Blitz.

I have both waxes too.

Blitz is great for the money but I prefer the P21S silver can. Way less wax dandruff.

Vacuuming solves the dandruff problem or blow out with an electric air duster:

https://www.amazon.com/XPOWER-Airrow-Multi-Use-Electric-Computer/dp/B00SI67YRU/ref=sxts_b2b_sx_reorder

I prefer P21S. A little less residue after you wax. But honestly, Blitz is fine, and you’ll still get good results with it.

Yeah p21s here but no reason to throw away monies with your Blitz.

Use blitz or p21s silver can.

Novus 2 will smooth out the scratches,

Blitz 1000 or P21S (silver can) will protect the finish.

When applying wax, less is more. Its not Spackle...

A proper coat should look like fingerprints on glass.
Let it dry thoroughly, then wipe off , then buff with a flannel (yellow) rag.

Vacuum out the cab and any remnants when your done.

Let it dry a bit, you should be good.

You cant build wax coats, its impossible, one is enough.

A lot of people skip the vacuuming.

Get a small shop-vac (1.5 or 2 gal) They are really handy.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyper-Tough-1-5-Gallon-2-0-Peak-HP-Utility-Wet-Dry-Vacuum/255414349?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&wl13=5864&adid=22222222277255414349_117755028669_12420145346&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=501107745824&wl4=pla-293946777986&wl5=9030872&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=local&wl12=255414349&wl13=5864&veh=sem_LIA&gclid=Cj0KCQiA9OiPBhCOARIsAI0y71C_lgsgBqmCHZg0m7osXI_77HQH_OabTmhj8j8HD_GNnpfw3nuZhLwaAuGHEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Store it under your game.

What's the difference between P21S and S100? From what I can tell, the S100 is half the price. And is there a difference between the P21S with the blue cap versus the silver cap?

P21S silver is pure carnauba whereas the blue cap id diluted with beeswax like so many others.

The paste has less solvent and more wax, get the paste if you cant find Blitz or P21S (silver can).

Use a harder wax.

I use P21S silver can. Never a problem.

Apply it very sparingly, think fingerprints on glass.

Its not spackle, body filler or icing.

Its wax. You cant build up coats as each new coat disolves the last, thats a fallacy.

Heavy coats of paste dont do anything other than make a big mess to vacuum out.

P21S is also a good wax (silver can)

https://www.amazon.com/New-P21S-100-Carnuba-6-2oz/dp/B00CI1D2HM/ref=asc_df_B00CI1D2HM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312168126179&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10464436194044622313&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030895&hvtargid=pla-566860906486&psc=1

OK i dampened a rag with naphtha (vmp) then applied a little pressure to clean off the playfield of my shadow i just picked up from HUO for 25 years. I’m unsure if/when this thing was last cleaned. or if it was done ‘correctly’.

i then used the p21s wax as blitz is n/a for me. applied 1/8 tsp and circular motion to areas. waited about 15 before it was dry then lightly wiped it off. looks like i may have used too much, or at least need to clean the star posts.

that being said, my lower playfield by the flippers are concerning me.

if you look at this picture, in the inlane there is a clear ball trail line and two different looks to the playfield. where the ball cant touch it’s shiny, above it all the way up to the inserts and around the slings it’s hazy.

the playfield above this center/business area looks great.

is there a fix here? did i not use enough pressure or time w the naptha?

thanks!

IMG_2698 (resized).jpeg

Use P21S silver can if you cant get the Blitz.

I went to buy another can of wax today and it's n/a... Is that silver p21s the go to for everyone mostly? What's the normal price on that stuff, I just briefly checked Amazon and it was spendy

Hey guys have a question on playfield cleaning and figured this might be the right thread for it.

So I have a TMNT 2020 machine (first pinball machine) I got a few months ago and did my first playfield clean a few weeks ago. Followed a lot of online tutorials and feel like the job went pretty well. Playfield looks a lot nicer afterwards and seemed to play a lot nicer. However, I have a few issues was hoping you guys could help with. First I'll lay out what I did/used.

Using a clean/new microfiber I started with a full cleaning of the playfield and ramps with Novus 1 (nothing was so engrained that I felt I needed novus 2 and heard to only use it for deeper scratches/stubborn spots to avoid damage, and everything looked great without it).

Then, put on a coat of P21S Carnauba Wax which I saw highly recommended in several places. applied with the provided applicator sponge in circular motion and then let it sit for about 15 minutes.

Came in after with another new microfiber and (in a circular motion) rubbed all the wax in and got it looking clean. Here's my issues:

------------

I'm seeing wax buildup accumulating on ball paths. Also my balls are getting a noticeable coat of wax on them. It's not every game but accumulates after 20 or so plays. I've now removed the balls and cleaned them twice and used a microfiber to remove excess buildup on the shooting lane and a few ramp entrance/exits.

Also, some wax seems to have gotten itself (from the initial cleaning) into holes such as where the metal switches for the outlanes and such are at. I've had to get some paper towel and fold it a couple times and try to get it down into those grooves to get it out. Kind of annoying.

Am I doing something wrong? I didn't think I applied "too much" wax but I do suppose it's possible. Is this just something to expect every time I wax the PF? Is there a technique or something else I could try to employ with this? Love the way the PF looks and plays after waxing but it's deterring me to want to do it again if it's going to be weeks of "post-cleanup". Hopefully it's just something I did wrong on this first one and something I can correct going forward.

Thanks!

Hey all! Been reading this (excellent) thread and have a noob question for you all:

So my one and only machine is a Foo Fighters that I bought new, and it has about 500 plays on it. Being that it's my first machine, I didn't think to replace the factory balls or wax the playfield first. BUT, it physically still looks great, with no ball trails or any other perceptible weirdness/imperfections on the playfield.

Gonna give it its first cleaning... sounds like I'm just going to replace the balls (looking at those shiny ones from Titan mentioned earlier in the thread), giving it a good vacuum and then applying some Blitz (or P21S) wax? And then, for subsequent cleanings, am I looking at removing the old wax with Naphta and applying a new coat?

Does all of that sound right/reasonable? Sorry if this was addressed earlier, but it's a 40-some page thread so I may have missed something. Thank you!