CP-100 smells good too! 
(Topic ID: 137689)
Sana'a
Louisville, KY
Thanks vid1900 for another helpful topic, also wanted to mention the CPR guide and care that is posted on the Classic Playfield Reproduction website as pretty much what vid and cliff mentioned in their posts:
"Proper long-term care after the playfield is installed will be the key to keeping it shiny and beautiful. We made these to stand the test of time. You shouldn't need to go crazy with waxing and several cleaning/polishing products to keep the playfield nice. Avoid going overboard.
We recommend a simple Novus 2 process. If you ever find your playfield getting "dull", wipe on Novus 2 with a cloth and allow to dry/haze.
Then take a clean cotton cloth (like an old t-shirt) and buff the haze away. Keep rotating the cloth and using a clean face as often as possible.
This will polish it nice and shiny, keeping the sheen of the clearcoat, and protecting all the open (ball-active) & visible areas of the playfield.
Waxing should never be required. That is a personal taste of the owner, though. Besides, you won't be waxing under the plastics and non-ball areas unless you want to perform a playfield strip every time you want to wax. But...some people just love to wax.
We recommend staying away from WildCat, as it has been proven to eat away polyeurethane topcoats slowly over time.
As mentioned in Part 6, keep your balls fresh. Your best defense. Change to taste, after every 500 to 1000 games."
Quoted from knobstone:This will polish it nice and shiny, keeping the sheen of the clearcoat, and protecting all the open (ball-active) & visible areas of the playfield.
How does NOVUS protect anything?
Quoted from cody_chunn:How does NOVUS protect anything?
By removing accumulated dirt and preventing it from being ground into the clear coat and causing damage where the ball rolls ???
Quoted from CactusJack:By removing accumulated dirt and preventing it from being ground into the clear coat and causing damage where the ball rolls ???
I hope you guys are not using Novus2 on dirty playfields.
You need to clean the Coil Dust from the playfield first, then polish out any scratches with Novus.
You don't want further wear on the playfield by grinding it down with a slurry of Coil Dust and Novus.
Remember 'one abrasive at at time'. If you mix abrasives, you only get the scratches from the most abrasive particle.
Quoted from vid1900:You don't want further wear on the playfield by grinding it down with a slurry of Coil Dust and Novus.
Remember 'one abrasive at at time'. If you mix abrasives, you only get the scratches from the most abrasive particle.
Well that's why you use a clean portion of the rag obviously... this is why some of your posts set people off.. going to an extreme that shuns behavior that is perfectly fine because you are applying some awkward corner case.
We use abrasives to clean out engrained dirt/grit because they won't simply 'vaccum out' and simple solvents weren't enough. And yes, that's when we use Novus to 'clean' a game. And in doing so, the process has 'protected' the game by removing the previously damaging materials. Protected in the sense removing the dirt prevents that dirt from doing further harm.
Novus isn't a cleaner... but we can still use it to clean things. Same way sandpaper isn't a cleaner either.. but we still use it to remove things in the process of cleaning things (like metal).
Where your statement is correct is of course is if you don't NEED that abrasive to dislodge the material.. but instead of the correct 'when needed' stance.. you go with the broad statement (even in counter to your prior posts).
Thanks for the extremely helpful thread.
I am just beginning a time warp 1979 project and this is very good.
I like the differing views and appreciate learning to do things right the first time.
This excellent community of pinball enthusiasts enables me to learn fast.
thank you for the awesome guides vid!
And thanks to the enthusiast community.
Quoted from flynnibus:We use abrasives to clean out engrained dirt/grit because they won't simply 'vaccum out' and simple solvents weren't enough. And yes, that's when we use Novus to 'clean' a game. And in doing so, the process has 'protected' the game by removing the previously damaging materials. Protected in the sense removing the dirt prevents that dirt from doing further harm
I don't think I can get on board with this statement. I have seen neglected games with lines of crud in the flipper lanes and around orbits that were pristine underneath, because the ball was rolling on top of the deposits instead of on the clear. So, essentially, the dirt was 'protecting' the clear.
Lots of thought vectors to explore for such a mundane topic. 
Quoted from flynnibus:this is why some of your posts set people off.. going to an extreme that shuns behavior that is perfectly fine because you are applying some awkward corner case.
Actually you have this exactly backwards.
Those "awkward corner cases" are where somebody has oddly been using the wrong product for years. They have told many people that this incorrect usage is "the way", and by now they mentally have so much invested they can't even think about the possibility that there is a "proper" way. "You know I'm a smart guy, people often ask me for pinball help; so there is no way I could have been doing this wrong for the past 15 years..... Everyone else, including the manufacturer, must be wrong."
-
Just for example, let's say that God sent another prophet to earth for a few days.
In this Internet age, people were flooding him with questions, but he instead gave some simple instructions to the world:
"You must listen to all of God's prophets.... Moses, Jesus and Mohamed.
"Quit praying to Mary. Nowhere in the Bible, Quran or Tanakh have you been instructed to pray to her"
"Don't give any money to TV preachers who earn more than $20,000 a year"
"Of course you can have more than one wife, it is a blessing from God. If your brother dies, you must take in his wife and children if she chooses"
"Allow gay people to marry in your places of worship. Extend to them the same love as you extend to God"
Before leaving Earth for the next planet on his tour, the prophet performed a most amazing miracle to prove he was indeed a messenger from God. He delivered to each household on earth; 2 loves of the sweetest fruit bread, and one jug of red wine (so fine was this wine that Wine Spectator had to invent a new 200 classification). Security cameras showed these gifts appearing out of thin air. Even supermax inmates found it in their cells.
So after the prophet left earth there was much joy in the world for most people. Proof of an afterlife and some much needed guidance. But some people could not accept this new way. They had too much invested (both mentally and financially) in the old ways - even though they were shown that they were wrong.
TV Preachers called out to their 95% empty congregations "Beware of the false prophet!". They could not accept the new truth, they were losing millions of dollars a day in income.
Some Catholics refused the new prophet. They had performed the Rosary 100,000 times in their lives, certainly all that time could not have been wasted! And read the teachings of Mohamed????? Hell no.
Some politicians and religious leaders had built their entire careers on bashing gays (even though the loudest ones were always secretly gay themselves). Commandment from God or not, they were not going to allow gays to have the same rights as others, they would look like idiots to their supporters.
Baptists called down fire and brimstone because the false prophet gave wine to the world, and alcohol is a sin, even when delivered by God.
-
And lo, a prophet did appear before the people!
The congregations gathered, to hear the gospel of truth straight from his lips. A hush fell across the crowd as the prophet stood before them.
"My children" he said, "for you are each and every one of you my child through the spirit of our lord".
"I have come before you to spread a glorious message, be glad in your hearts. You have but to hear the words and feel free."
Ear strained forward, would the secret of everlasting life be revealed to the chosen?
"Stop cleaning your pinballs with abrasives. Hallelujah!"
And there was much rejoicing.
Quoted from vid1900:Those "awkward corner cases" are where somebody has oddly been using the wrong product for years. They have told many people that this incorrect usage is "the way", and by now they mentally have so much invested they can't even think about the possibility that there is a "proper" way. "You know I'm a smart guy, people often ask me for pinball help; so there is no way I could have been doing this wrong for the past 15 years..... Everyone else, including the manufacturer, must be wrong."
In this case, the manufacturer (CPR) is right. They're recommending Novus 2 for regular spot cleaning, exactly how I described using it in my post a couple weeks ago.
I respect your experience, Vid, but I also respect mine, and over 15 years I've found Novus 2 is just fine for periodic light cleaning on polyurethane playfields. I would use it more sparingly on lacquer, but it's great for newer games.
Quoted from vid1900:Actually you have this exactly backwards.
Those "awkward corner cases" are where somebody has oddly been using the wrong product for years. They have told many people that this incorrect usage is "the way", and by now they mentally have so much invested they can't even think about the possibility that there is a "proper" way. "You know I'm a smart guy, people often ask me for pinball help; so there is no way I could have been doing this wrong for the past 15 years..... Everyone else, including the manufacturer, must be wrong."
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Good vid post - 'don't use abrasives for wipedown cleaning' followed by the idea of using the least destructive processes first moving on as needed.
Bad vid post - 'stop cleaning your games with Novus'
Because the regurgitators always screw up the nuances and can't differentiate between your second statement and the idea of using abrasives to clean stubborn or ground in materials. Instead they see "vid says don't ever use novus2!!!" - and many kittens are killed as pinside argues why statements out of context can't be applied universally.
Quoted from metallik:In this case, the manufacturer (CPR) is right. They're recommending Novus 2 for regular spot cleaning, exactly how I described using it in my post a couple weeks ago.
I respect your experience, Vid, but I also respect mine, and over 15 years I've found Novus 2 is just fine for periodic light cleaning on polyurethane playfields. I would use it more sparingly on lacquer, but it's great for newer games.
Novus 2 is basically liquid sandpaper. Would you use sandpaper on a playfield every time it needed a little bit of cleaning?
Quoted from metallik:In this case, the manufacturer (CPR) is right. They're recommending Novus 2 for regular spot cleaning, exactly how I described using it in my post a couple weeks ago.
I respect your experience, Vid, but I also respect mine, and over 15 years I've found Novus 2 is just fine for periodic light cleaning on polyurethane playfields. I would use it more sparingly on lacquer, but it's great for newer games.
Sounds like you are almost agreeing with me.
Be careful, people will talk.......
No problem using Novus2 to polish out scratches here and there. Believe it or not, that's what it's made for.
Quoted from Aurich:Or potassium benzoate. (That's bad.)
Simpsons reference! I get it! 
I've used SC Johnson Paste Wax on polished metal with horrible results. Sure, it's on there protecting or whatever, but I can't get out the haziness it causes. I can rub and rub but the metal won't shine up. Is the Miniwax brand better?
On another note, Vid, how would you remove these things. 1958 Gottlieb Sunshine. Five pop bumpers have a mylar type protector around them. I'm thinking 91% alcohol or Goo Gone (not Goo Off!) for soaking and using a plastic scraper. Least abrasive that I can think of.
Quoted from dtown:I've used SC Johnson Paste Wax on polished metal with horrible results. Sure, it's on there protecting or whatever, but I can't get out the haziness it causes. I can rub and rub but the metal won't shine up. Is the Miniwax brand better?
JPW is just soft Paraffin and silicone, not really suitable for pinball use, and not a metal polish at all.
Use some Naphtha to remove the JPW and get you back to bare metal.
Now use some METAL POLISH made for the metal you are polishing. Green Compound (often found as a giant green crayon) for stainless steel, Red Compound for chrome.......
If you've never polished metal before, do the backside first so you can "get" what you are doing. Cordless drill or bench buffer (better yet) is good for this.
Once you are polished nicely, protect the new surface with a good coat of hard Carnauba Wax.
Quoted from dtown:On another note, Vid, how would you remove these things. 1958 Gottlieb Sunshine. Five pop bumpers have a mylar type protector around them
That Mylar is protecting the playfield from wear, so I'd leave it alone unless you are going to clearcoat the entire playfield.
I know, not what you wanted to hear, but it's the truth.
Quoted from dtown:I'm thinking 91% alcohol or Goo Gone (not Goo Off!) for soaking and using a plastic scraper. Least abrasive that I can think of.
Soaking that very porous looking playfield with alcohol will probably create a ton of cracking in the paint when the wood swells.
I'd try heating up the Mylar with a hair dryer or household iron through a cotton rag and see if the glue softens enough to lift it.
If it won't budge, then it might be solid enough to try freezing it. With a can of Canned Air turned upside down so the propellant blasts all over the Mylar. Freeze and thaw 2 cycles before you try lifting an edge while frozen.
Try the pop farthest from the player in case you mess it up.
Expect disaster and hope for success.
Try the pop farthest from the player in case you mess it up
And on the other (top) side of the pop from the player...
Quoted from vid1900:I never said that.
I said to indeed USE Novus2 to polish out scratches.
You said
Quoted from vid1900:I hope you guys are not using Novus2 on dirty playfields.
Leading lemmings to read "don't use novus to remove dirt"
If the dirt so ground in... We need agitation to get into out
Quoted from flynnibus:Because the regurgitators always screw up the nuances and can't differentiate between your second statement and the idea of using abrasives to clean stubborn or ground in materials. Instead they see "vid says don't ever use novus2!!!" - and many kittens are killed as pinside argues why statements out of context can't be applied universally.
Quoted from flynnibus:Leading lemmings to read "don't use novus to remove dirt"
If the dirt so ground in... We need agitation to get into out
Here's the entire quote, which comes across a little different than your excerpt.
Quoted from vid1900:I hope you guys are not using Novus2 on dirty playfields.
You need to clean the Coil Dust from the playfield first, then polish out any scratches with Novus.
You don't want further wear on the playfield by grinding it down with a slurry of Coil Dust and Novus.
Remember 'one abrasive at at time'. If you mix abrasives, you only get the scratches from the most abrasive particle.
Seems pretty clear to me, and I'm sure all of the lemmings/regurgitators also: Clean the playfield before using Novus 2. I think you're the only person confused about what vid is saying.
Quoted from terryb:Seems pretty clear to me, and I'm sure all of the lemmings/regurgitators also: Clean the playfield before using Novus 2. I think you're the only person confused about what vid is saying.
Except... you will need the abrasive (novus) to to the cleaning in many cases.
I'm an inmate at a maximum security facility enjoying the tastiest fruit bread ever (weird, it just appeared out of thin air)...and my wine bottle (which ALSO appeared out if thin air at the exact same time) has got a few scratches in it...if I wipe it down with Naptha and then buff it with Novus 2, will that work? I just really want to see the stuff inside while I chug...was even thinking about installing a few LEDs (to make it pop)
Vid, as always...thanks for your guides - you have my vote in 2016!
Quoted from flynnibus:Except... you will need the abrasive (novus) to to the cleaning in many cases.
Why keep spamming this thread? This is Vids guide, so Vid will let you know what he thinks. I think it is fine to comment and stuff but you just keep trolling. Go make "Cleaning and Waxing Pinball Machines - flynnibus's Guide" and let people know that they should not vacum or anything just use abrasives from the start because in your optic that is cleaning etc.
Quoted from tezting:Why keep spamming this thread? This is Vids guide, so Vid will let you know what he thinks. I think it is fine to comment and stuff but you just keep trolling. Go make "Cleaning and Waxing Pinball Machines - flynnibus's Guide" and let people know that they should not vacum or anything just use abrasives from the start because in your optic that is cleaning etc.
By that logic your reply is not allowed since you aren't named in the thread title. Oh wait...neither is mine! 
Woolloongabba
Quoted from flynnibus:Except... you will need the abrasive (novus) to to the cleaning in many cases.
So theoretically once you've cleaned out the ground in stuff with your novus you'd never need to use it again if you follow a good cleaning regime as nothing should ever get to the point of being 'ground in' ever again? So you're agreeing with Vid now that Novus shouldn't be used, ah ok cool. Peace restored
Quoted from tezting:Why keep spamming this thread? This is Vids guide, so Vid will let you know what he thinks. I think it is fine to comment and stuff but you just keep trolling
Spaming? Trolling? What are you smoking? Replying to a discussion is not spamming... and who the f are you to say whose post should be the 'final' post?
As for dissenting opinions... well what did vid say about that in this very thread?
Quoted from vid1900:That is what a public forum is.
A place where you can state your ideas and be challenged by other people's ideas.
Maybe try reading the whole thread next time.
What about Milwax? When I clean my playfield I first just use a damp cloth to wipe off the dust etc. once dry I then use Milwax sparingly all around the playfield. Once the light hazy compound dries I just buff with a soft cloth. Is this ok, it seems to be working just fine?
Quoted from Lethal_Inc:What about Milwax?
Avoid.
Williams issued a warning bullitin about not using products like Millwax.
Silicone is not very good at protecting a playfield like real Carnauba Wax is.
So what's the solution? Sorry I didn't read every post but is there a product you recommend? Thanks.
I've used a little Simple Green to clean off dirt on my Taxi pf but can see like tiny spiderweb lines. Can this be removed?
Quoted from Lethal_Inc:So what's the solution? Sorry I didn't read every post but is there a product you recommend? Thanks.
Here, just read the important parts then, it's all laid out for you right in this thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-and-waxing-pinball-machines-vids-guide?tu=vid1900
Quoted from vid1900:What game?
Clearcoated?
Original playfield or reproduction?
My collection; (original playfields)
ACDC pro
MET pro led
The Getaway
Judge Dredd
Now that I have used Milwax how do I remove it? Or do I need to before I use something like the Blitz wax? Thanks again.
Quoted from Lethal_Inc:Now that I have used Milwax how do I remove it?
The silicone component is almost impossible to remove, so for now forget about removing the Millwax
Vacuum first - see how much crud goes away. Use brush attachment and crevasse attachment.
Wipe with soft dry cloth - is the remaining dirt glued on, or did it wipe away?
Wipe with soft cloth moistened with Naphtha - are you now down to clean playfield?
Vacuum again - take note of any scratches and ball trails.
Use Novus2 - with a soft cloth (not paper towel), polish out any scratches. Polish out the ball trails in the inlanes. Keep the cloth rotated to clean sections, and keep it moist with the Novus2.
Vacuum again - check your work. Ignore tiny scratches you won't see with the glass on.
Wax - Using the included applicator or a clean very slightly dampened with 1 drop of water cloth, rub the wax into the playfield using small circles. If your applicator is dirty from your car, don't even think of using it! Do the ramps, do the metal ball guides, the wire guides, undecaled target faces - every place the ball touches. Don't use too much wax! If using Blitz, use 1/4 of what you would use of Turtle Wax.
Wait 20 minutes - Drag you finger across, if it cleanly removes the wax film, it's ready. If it's slightly tacky, give it another 10 minutes.
Wipe - wipe off the wax film with soft cloth. If you are using good wax, there won't be any white wax chips or flakes at all. Keep the cloth turned to fresh areas.
Vacuum again - if you used cheaper wax, you may need this final vacuum to pick up the wax dust.
Drop in new balls - for $5, why not?
Play. .
Mississauga, ON
WOW !!! After all these years of playing, owning, collecting and cleaning my pinball machines I thought I knew how to clean my pinball machines. After reading thru all these posts I wanted to drink a few beers with all the info and comments. I will say some of the comments/info were informative and appreciated while some were pretty straight forward since I was already aware of the info/comments that were brought up.
I think I'll stick to doing what I have always done on my clear coated playfields. That is a little Novus 2 and then a little wax when I feel I've played them enough to require doing this. How's that for nice and simple.
Quoted from petes80smame:I think I'll stick to doing what I have always done on my clear coated playfields. That is a little Novus 2 and then a little wax when I feel I've played them enough to require doing this. How's that for nice and simple.
If there are no scratches on your playfield, you can just wipe up the dust with a soft dry cloth and wax.
Super simple.
Quoted from toyotaboy:Vid, you are a mini-god right under Clay Harrell. If you ever come to Chicago Expo, I'm buying you a beer.
Get in line.
Quoted from vid1900:JPW is just soft bees wax and silicone, not really suitable for pinball use...
...Once you are polished nicely, protect the new surface with a good coat of Carnauba Wax.
image_13047.jpg
According to SC Johnsons, they do not use soft beeswax or silicon. Naptha and Carnauba are the top ingredients used.
http://www.whatsinsidescjohnson.com/us/en/brands/sc-johnson/sc-johnson-paste-wax
There is so much hype about waxes, that bad information gets spread and people can really get confused. I agree with your advice on how to treat the metal, but the bees wax / silicone comment conflicts with the manufacturers' published disclosures.
Thanks for the posts as always... great discussions.
Hi Vid,
I hope you dont mind a minor disagreement.
I agree with the recommendation of green rouge for polishing metal.
I recommend Green Zam.
However, you recommended Red rouge. Now, if there is a new composition, I will be incorrect,
but as of a few years ago, the industry has reported the possibility of this being cancerous, so please wear a mask,
and dont inhale red rouge, or stick with green. Red also "cakes" easier on metal, is a bitch to remove, and nasty in an ultrasonic.
I agree with vacuuming, although I vacuum the first major time, and then use a refillable dust off after the minor steps.
Do you have any thoughts on blowing instead of sucking?
Last there was a post about difficult to reach areas, that require a tear down.
I use a few items...a flexible piece of wood, a long plastic large straw. On either I wrap microfiber, rubberband, then cleaner...naptha, novus1 for others. (even a small piece of magic eraser)
Ill get that into the back orbits and clean the ball line and extra dirt, then change out, as needed, to all the steps mentioned in thread.....
Do you have other thoughts for this? Or have others created a tool for cleaning under ramps?
Quoted from toyotaboy:right under Clay Harrell.
In all fairness, I think "under" would be the wrong preposition. "Alongside" is far more appropriate and certainly more accurate. Vid's HD photos, relevancy, directness, organization, and humor make his guides "second" to no one's.
So is Naptha safe to use on Modern Playfields and/or plastics? I'm confused because both Naptha and Waxes contain petroleum distillates, and the wax isn't safe to use on plastics since it will trap the PD, melting the plastic. However Naptha is safe to use everywhere because it evaporates so quickly? Do I have that right?
Quoted from vid1900:Let's see a clear picture of the "spiderwebs".
I hope these pictures are clear enough to show what I am talking about.
20150916_122013.jpg
Quoted from Sheprd:According to SC Johnsons, they do not use soft beeswax or silicon. Naptha and Carnauba are the top ingredients used.
I got it right the first time someone asked about it in this thread, and messed it up the second.
Sorry about that.
Paraffin wax is correct, and it's a very soft wax.
My 10 year old "industrial" MSDS sheet certainly does list silicone as an ingredient.
Don't worry they will change the formula 50 more times and keep the same name.
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:However, you recommended Red rouge. Now, if there is a new composition, I will be incorrect,
but as of a few years ago, the industry has reported the possibility of this being cancerous, so please wear a mask,
Yes!
Wear a mask with ANY dusts.
Even popcorn flavoring is cancerous to inhale.
Red compound is usually spec for chrome finishes.
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