South Lyon, MI
I didn't see this specifically mentioned in the thread, but what about waxing on top of what appear to be plastic light or lens covers on newer games? Avoiding all of those seems like it will make the process pretty challenging
(Topic ID: 137689)
Sana'a
So if I just wanted to clean the playfield of an EM, but didn't want to remove the topcoat, what should I clean it with? I see Naptha being suggested, but Naptha removes the topcoat. Also, I don't want to use Naptha anyway since I'm in a sealed off basement with no way of getting the air out easily.
Also, I previously had cleaned my Sky Jump EM with Magic Eraser and Alcohol, but that white residue managed to stay behind and I couldn't seem to remove it.
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:So if I just wanted to clean the playfield of an EM, but didn't want to remove the topcoat, what should I clean it with? I see Naptha being suggested, but Naptha removes the topcoat.
Pinheads and Luthiers choose Naphtha because it DOES NOT remove the topcoat.
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:Also, I don't want to use Naptha anyway since I'm in a sealed off basement with no way of getting the air out easily.
It evaporates crazy fast, no worries. Smells great.
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:Also, I previously had cleaned my Sky Jump EM with Magic Eraser and Alcohol, but that white residue managed to stay behind and I couldn't seem to remove it.
ALCOHOL REMOVES THE TOPCOAT
So it's not cleaning, it's stripping
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-and-waxing-pinball-machines-vids-guide#post-2655712
Quoted from vid1900:Pinheads and Luthiers choose Naphtha because it DOES NOT remove the topcoat.
It evaporates crazy fast, no worries.
ALCOHOL REMOVES THE TOPCOAT
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-and-waxing-pinball-machines-vids-guide#post-2655712
Aah, okay, thanks for clarifying, Vid! I personally don't like using Naptha since it instantly made me lightheaded and gave me a headache the remainder of the day. I'll need to get a good mask to wear!
Have you ever had any experience using CP-100? I hear it's basically Naptha, but nicer smelling.
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:Aah, okay, thanks for clarifying, Vid! I personally don't like using Naptha since it instantly made me lightheaded and gave me a headache the remainder of the day. I'll need to get a good mask to wear!
Have you ever had any experience using CP-100? I hear it's basically Naptha, but nicer smelling.
I use CP100 for the same reason. I think it does just as good of job. It’s just a lot more expensive.
1 week later
I'm going to be doing my fist ever tear-down and cleaning of a pin. It's a T2. From what I gather from this thread is that I should vacuum as much as the dirt off the PF as possible. After vacuuming I should clean PF with naptha, and then wax with carnuba. Is that it?
Quoted from JakePG:I'm going to be doing my fist ever tear-down and cleaning of a pin. It's a T2. From what I gather from this thread is that I should vacuum as much as the dirt off the PF as possible. After vacuuming I should clean PF with naptha, and then wax with carnuba. Is that it?
Yes. You may also want to do a final vacuum after waxing to pick up loose particles still left.
1 week later
I need some recommendations on dealing with this Mylar. I do not want to remove it unless there is a 99.9% it will come up without pulling any paint (I doubt that will happen).
I was thinking of, somehow taking a razor blade and cutting off the piece that has lifted, to a point in the mylar that hasn't. This is also a big concern for me too.
It looks like the mylar was owner installed to either cover cupped inserts and the ball trail at the top. I don't have a problem at all with it on the game, but would like to clean it the best I can.
What do you guys think?
-Pat
Quoted from PinFixin:I need some recommendations on dealing with this Mylar. I do not want to remove it unless there is a 99.9% it will come up without pulling any paint (I doubt that will happen).
I was thinking of, somehow taking a razor blade and cutting off the piece that has lifted, to a point in the mylar that hasn't. This is also a big concern for me too.
It looks like the mylar was owner installed to either cover cupped inserts and the ball trail at the top. I don't have a problem at all with it on the game, but would like to clean it the best I can.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
What do you guys think?
-Pat
Simply trim the lifted area with a blade so you don't have a lifted edge anywhere. You can't clean/reseat mylar once it's gotten lifted like that. Either remove the tainted section or remove it all.
Given the small impact - I'd just trim that section and ignore any concerns about removing the mylar.
Use a sharp razor and just cut a straight line.. lift the loose mylar back to the cut.
Vid - I got a NIB game recently. Long story short--I cleaned the factory balls before firing it up (to get all oil off) for the first game (it's a CGC so I figured the balls couldn't be that bad although I prefer Titan and will replace with same once these balls are no longer any good) but I did not wax the game (although you suggest otherwise given that only a thin coat is applied at the factory) it had been waxed at the factory (telltale signs included dried wax residue in some typical places -- probably did not use Blitz).
In any event, I've put only about 70 games on it but am already seeing faint signs of ball trails in the inlanes. So, based upon my review of the advice here I was simply going to (1) vacuum if necessary (might not be); (2) wipe down with Novus 1; (3) if ball trails are still present in inlanes then apply Novus 2 to only that area (or just skip to wax since playfield is new?); (4) wax playfield (including ramps) with Blitz (use very little) / wipe off wax after waiting 15-20 minutes; (5) vacuum again if needed).
Let me know if I'm at all off base here. The game is effectively still "new" so no need for Naphtha.
Finally, I assume the best defense against ball trails in outlanes and ball swirling is keeping on top of cleaning / waxing (perhaps every 100 games?) but any other tips? Many thanks again for the great advice!
Quoted from vid1900:^ examine all the balls closely, against a black background. Make sure none have any bad spots.
Vac and Wax, no need for the Novus
Many Thanks. I decided to order new balls from Ball Baron so I probably won't play any more games until those arrive just to be safe.
So I cleaned my 1953 Grand Slam with naphtha the other day, and I wasn't sure if there was anything more I could really do to clean up certain parts of the playfield.
Is this just typical wear and barring restoring the playfield, not much I can do with cleaning products?
20220422_195138 (resized).jpg20220422_195200 (resized).jpg20220422_195212 (resized).jpg
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:Is this just typical wear and barring restoring the playfield, not much I can do with cleaning products?
As you can see, it's not dirt, it's wear in the paint - often all the way through to the wood
Quoted from vid1900:So we now know what cleaners to avoid for older games, so what's a good cleaner we can use?
Our old friend Naphtha.
Probably a stupid question but I assume any brand of VM&P Naphtha is OK? I couldn't find the Klean Strip VM&P Naphtha but I found another brand of VM&P Naphtha and I assume that's equivalent... All the same, I thought I would ask despite the fact that it is seemingly obvious... better safe than sorry. Many thanks.
Quoted from Josh0979:Probably a stupid question but I assume any brand of VM&P Naphtha is OK? I couldn't find the Klean Strip VM&P Naphtha but I found another brand of VM&P Naphtha and I assume that's equivalent... All the same, I thought I would ask despite the fact that it is seemingly obvious... better safe than sorry. Many thanks.
I've never found a bad brand, probably all made in the same factory
Quoted from vid1900:I've never found a bad brand, probably all made in the same factory
You're probably right about that--LOL.
2 months later
Just an interesting note.
My old can of Meguiar’s Gold Class Carnauba Plus dried up and what’s left behind seems to very much be Carnauba Wax.
On the left is pure Carnauba for reference.
Non Scientific, but from what I can tell, seems to be a good product.
9B37DE60-0AA2-4E92-97BE-D645B0D3DB64 (resized).jpegB5E86068-F1F2-48B1-9055-A80CCD4E1B8C (resized).jpeg 1 month later
Quoted from Zampinator:On new Sterns & all diamond coats, I swear by this stuff!
Honda Spray Cleaner & Polish
Warning: Your pin will be Lightning Fast![quoted image]
Do you still recommend this for Stern pinball machines?
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:So I cleaned my 1953 Grand Slam with naphtha the other day, and I wasn't sure if there was anything more I could really do to clean up certain parts of the playfield.
Is this just typical wear and barring restoring the playfield, not much I can do with cleaning products?
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Vac up all those loose crumbs, and wax.
3 weeks later
Corfu
Quoted from ababapanos:hello at my local store I can find Meguiar's Gold Class Carnauba Plus Paste Wax 311gr and Meguiar's Carnauba Plus 473ml in liquid wax. Which of the two should I choose?
Regards!
Paste
Quoted from ababapanos:hello at my local store I can find Meguiar's Gold Class Carnauba Plus Paste Wax 311gr and Meguiar's Carnauba Plus 473ml in liquid wax. Which of the two should I choose?
Regards!
The paste has less solvent and more wax, get the paste if you cant find Blitz or P21S (silver can).
What is the recommendation for cleaning and waxing wedge heads? I got an El Dorado flipping again after being dormant for 20 years+. I have been afraid to clean it, so I’ve only waxed it a few times.
Would using Novus 2 be too harsh?
Quoted from DanMarino:Would using Novus 2 be too harsh?
Not for me if the PF is nice and not flaking.
I use novice 2 all the time on EM clean up
Sudbury
I'm not sure where I'm going wrong, if I am.
I've got a tin of mothers (the reccomended one not the cleaner wax) that I've been using for months.
I rub my cloth in against the wax and then onto the pf, leave 10-15mins and then use another cloth to buff out.
Everything seems fine until some balls are rolling, I end with with spots of wax on the balls and sometimes crumbs of wax appear on the pf. I have to keep cleaning the balls and it's such a faff.
Any ideas where I'm going wrong?
Quoted from DaveTheTrain:I'm not sure where I'm going wrong, if I am.
I've got a tin of mothers (the reccomended one not the cleaner wax) that I've been using for months.
I rub my cloth in against the wax and then onto the pf, leave 10-15mins and then use another cloth to buff out.
Everything seems fine until some balls are rolling, I end with with spots of wax on the balls and sometimes crumbs of wax appear on the pf. I have to keep cleaning the balls and it's such a faff.
Any ideas where I'm going wrong?
Use a harder wax.
I use P21S silver can. Never a problem.
Apply it very sparingly, think fingerprints on glass.
Its not spackle, body filler or icing.
Its wax. You cant build up coats as each new coat disolves the last, thats a fallacy.
Heavy coats of paste dont do anything other than make a big mess to vacuum out.
2 months later
This thread is great. Thanks to Vid1900, Pinballinreno, & the other knowledgeable contributors.
I picked up some Blitz, the kit of tiny vacuum attachments, & I'll be ensmartening my cleaning & waxing approach.
Regarding inspecting & replacing balls, here are 2 anecdotes:
My Deadpool premium, built earlier this year, came with 1 ball that had some interesting cracks across it. I'm glad I checked before putting it in my machine.
800-900ish games on it in 7 months, 2200ish balls played. I've changed the balls out once or twice already. When I examined them today, one & only one looked like a golf ball. Wow. Unless I lost track (possible), all 6 were new Titan Super Shiny balls or Marco Silverjet Premium balls.
Attachments:
1st 2: new Deadpool ball
3rd: golf ball after a few months in Deadpool.
Thanks,
-Jason
1 (resized).jpg2 (resized).jpgPXL_20221224_064610088 (resized).jpgQuoted from jasonbar:My Deadpool premium, built earlier this year, came with 1 ball that had some interesting cracks across
I'm not surprised--I'm not sure who Stern uses as their pinball supplier but the quality of the OEM pinballs is terrible. I always just leave mine in the coinbox upon unboxing and immediately replace (usually with Ball Baron balls but I've used Titan too--both are good). And yes, this thread has been invaluable.
After pics in reference to post: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-and-waxing-pinball-machines-vids-guide/page/41#post-6881267
This just never gets old.
What I did:
Cut off small piece of mylar on upper left of playfiend.
Remove scotch tape on bottom middle of playfield by bottom of mylar.
Vacuum playfield.
Use naphtha on lint free rag to remove most of dirt.
Magic Eraser'd and alcohol for the non mylared areas (did not see ANY paint come off, which is good, but I'm sure part of the clearcoat did).
Naphtha'd again to remove the ME white stuff, then novus 2'd the whole thing.
I'm not going to clearcoat it. This is a player's game, and to me it's a hell of a lot better than it was. I'm sure it will play fast, and clean. A non-pinball person put the mylar over cupped inserts, and the ball trail at the time. I would have never done that. Was thinking of removing the mylar, but I think it came out ok.
Interested in comments, suggestions, or constructive criticism.
-Pat
3 weeks later
This must have had moisture or dry ? damage. I started gently vacuuming the dirt out and discovers this under the dirt. A local
Has asked me to get this going. I’m assuming there is a nothing I can do as the paint is going to come off whether I like it or not.
1CBB04C6-85FA-4921-B593-AC692C78319B (resized).jpegQuoted from northerndude:This must have had moisture or dry ? damage. I started gently vacuuming the dirt out and discovers this under the dirt. A local
Has asked me to get this going. I’m assuming there is a nothing I can do as the paint is going to come off whether I like it or not. [quoted image]
I think you need Vids guide to playfield restoration rather than his guide to cleaning.
Quoted from Nokoro:I think you need Vids guide to playfield restoration rather than his guide to cleaning.
Ha! Jeez, clicked on the wrong Vid guide!
Quoted from northerndude:Ha! Jeez, clicked on the wrong Vid guide!
But yes there isn't much you can do there but get a vacuum and some paint ready
Quoted from northerndude:This must have had moisture or dry ? damage. I started gently vacuuming the dirt out and discovers this under the dirt. A local
Has asked me to get this going. I’m assuming there is a nothing I can do as the paint is going to come off whether I like it or not. [quoted image]
If it’s that terrible and too far gone, if they make one, perhaps it’s time for a hardtop.
Quoted from zahner:If it’s that terrible and too far gone, if they make one, perhaps it’s time for a hardtop.
There’s no hardtop, but there’s the overlay from classic arcades I found
Quoted from northerndude:There’s no hardtop, but there’s the overlay from classic arcades I found
I know of a fellow who has a Flash Gordon with an overlay that was clear coated and it’s pretty sharp. Definitely a step below a pro restoration of a damaged PF. However, accomplishing anything that requires paint and a brush is so wildly beyond anything I could ever dream of, the idea of an overlay becomes a real option. So, depending on budget, ability and effort, the overlay may be an acceptable alternative.
Quoted from northerndude:There’s no hardtop, but there’s the overlay from classic arcades I found
YIKES!
Quoted from zahner:I know of a fellow who has a Flash Gordon with an overlay that was clear coated and it’s pretty sharp. Definitely a step below a pro restoration of a damaged PF. However, accomplishing anything that requires paint and a brush is so wildly beyond anything I could ever dream of, the idea of an overlay becomes a real option. So, depending on budget, ability and effort, the overlay may be an acceptable alternative.
I’m not touching the PF with paint. no way, no how. Not mine, no skill. don’t give enough fucks to attack it like that
If this person wants it working, I’ll make it work. It’s going to cost them enough $ just in straight up parts to make it a go.
I would clear it if it was an option, but it would
be a mess. Overlay is like 225 usd. I could clear over that?! But we’ll see.
I have a feeling I’m going to be making a very low offer to buy it from them if they don’t want me to make a go of a working unit
Thanks once more for this thread.
I got a players' condition Black Hole a couple of weeks ago. Perhaps a little sub-player's condition (ball swirls, planking, some chips at the edges & under posts). It hadn't seen much TLC.
Some vacuuming, cleaning, polishing, Blitz wax, new rubbers/plastics/nuts/lane guides/window screws/window spacers, & a little elbow grease following the formula here ("clean it, wax it, & enjoy it") has brought it a luster & shine that it didn't have before.
I've got one or two more little things to check off my checklist before I start flipping, but the PFs are rarin' to go. (& it's downright fun deadlifting that lower PF out of the cab & working on it anywhere I darn well please)
Thanks,
-Jason
PXL_20230123_070425903 (resized).jpgPXL_20230123_070445246 (resized).jpgQuoted from northerndude:This must have had moisture or dry ? damage. I started gently vacuuming the dirt out and discovers this under the dirt. A local
Has asked me to get this going. I’m assuming there is a nothing I can do as the paint is going to come off whether I like it or not. [quoted image]
You can use thin CA glue and wick it under to secure the water damaged areas
2 weeks later
I saw someone use orange glo (spray bottle) to clean and polish new Stern playfields after putting on playfield protector. Although not sure that part matters that much.
It's a degreaser, no wax, no water, no alcohol. Cleans and polishes.
Thoughts?
Quoted from gk_usa:I saw someone use orange glo (spray bottle) to clean and polish new Stern playfields after putting on playfield protector. Although not sure that part matters that much.
It's a degreaser, no wax, no water, no alcohol. Cleans and polishes.
Just like 1000 other "mystical magical" household chemical products asked about in this thread, the questions always comes down to:
"What dirt is on my playfield that I can't seem to remove with normal solvents, and now require Orange Glo ?"
"Since polishes are abrasive, do I need a "cleaner" that is also an abrasive?"
"What guarantee do I have that the manufacturer won't change the chemicals at some point, possibly clouding my playfield?"
-
If you need to remove grease from a playfield, nothing beats Naphtha.
It's pure; No perfume, No abrasives, No chemical dyes.
It's always the same formula. The Naphtha you bought in the 70s is the same as the stuff today. No damaging changes like Simple Green or Formula 409.
It's cheap. At $15 a gallon it is an amazing value.
It's clean. It evaporates and leaves absolutely NOTHING behind.
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