And just to centralize the info to the thread linked by vid, for POLISHING, vid recommends Meguiars Medium Cut Cleaner, followed by Meguiars Swirl Remover, and finally Meguiars Machine Glaze. Don't keep the buffer in one place for long, certainly not long enough to generate heat. Assign specific bonnets/pads to specific compounds and do NOT cross contaminate, labelling them with a Sharpie.

(Is this polishing sequence the same on mylar?)

Then wax as discussed.

What is the value in the wait?
thx,
mof

100%. Do not Cross Contaminate different polishes and waxes. The 1 with the heaviest grit will erase all of the advantages of using the next product. Also when using an automotive cut polish step system, it is much better if you use the same companies products, as those products were developed to work together.

vid so now you wax it with blitz, you do it right, a thin but stupid-hard layer of wax is protecting your playfield.

When do you have to wax again?

Do you re-polish and re-wax? The whole thing over again ?

From what I learned so far from this thread, you routine vacuum out the game, then wax. If you have stuff like ball trails them break out the Novus 2.

I wax again when my game is noticeably slowing down or after a butt ton of plays.

So...what is the verdict on using Windex for plastics and for a quick wipe down of the pf?

From a Plastics Website: Never use bleach, ammonia based window cleaning fluids, strong solvents such as gasoline, denatured alcohol, carbon tetrachloride, or acetone.

So this has not been cleaned since new..... does not vacuum up or "just wipe up" its going to need something... 20150904_201906.jpg 20150904_201932.jpg20150904_201902.jpg

So that TSPP is of the post-automotive clear coat era. So you can either Naphtha it or Simple Green it with quick spray and wipe to get that which the vacuum does not pick up.
Afterwards, Blitz Carnauba wax a couple coats playfield, ramps (nondecalled portions), and wireforms, and you should be good to go.
Consider going to Pinball Life and getting new balls while you are at it.

I cleaned up a TSPP that was in similar shape when i got it. Heres what i did.
T-shirt cotton rags
Spray novus 1 on rag to dampen it (not soaking wet by any means)
Wipe playfield
Spary wipe spray wipe using new clean parts of rag each time.
Then wiped it off with a new clean microfiber towel.
Repeat until wiping doesnt make rag black/dirty
Replaced with all new rubbers
New balls
Waxed it using johnsons paste wax
Let it dry
New microfiber towel to buff it up

http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Fine-Wood-Paste-00203/dp/B0000DIWIM

I had good results with this method. Cleaned it right up. But for normal monthlyish maintenance to remove ball trails i just use a tiny bit of novus one on a fresh cotton rag. They wipe right up.

Vid, while we're here having an informative science lesson, can we learn your strategy for cabinets.

thanks,
mof

To avoid doing this when moving to the next polishing product - do you wipe each complete step down with a clean cloth or naphtha or..?

Yes, just wipe off all residue with a clean dry cloth, no extra chemicals. A new microfiber towel would be the best.
With 2 steps of polish and an application of Carnauba, you will need 3 towels.

In Au some people swear by a product called Mr Sheen ..
mrsheen.jpg

Mostly used on newer stern pins

I have this available for my post-naphtha waxing. Think this will be acceptable?

20150905_102802.jpg

20150905_102819.jpg

Great stuff vid keep up the good work!

Vid1900, what would you recommend to clean plastics?

There are multiple brands of Naptha out there. Are they all created equal?

Unfortunately Vids post is only one side of the story in regards to wax.
Though most of his information is correct, a lot of it is personal opinion and not fact.
So let me give you the OTHER side of the story. Another opinion. Another way to look at it.

In my opinion, for the typical hobby pinball person, waxing is a fool's endeavor. Stay with me on this, and i'll explain why. After waxing and cleaning and operating games for 25 years, i have some experiences to share.

All waxes, to some degree, must have petroleum distillates (pet dist) to make them usable. Wax by itself is too hard and difficult to apply without Pet Dist. Depending on the brand, the amount of Pet Dist varies. The more liquid the wax, the more pet dist it will have. That said, it's best to use a wax that is more solid than liquid, as Vid stated correctly.

As a demonstration point of pet dist, check this picture of a commonly used hard paste wax. The brand is really not important, as much as the fact that what it is doing....

waxonfire3.jpg

So as you can see, Pet Dist is definitely a major piece of any wax product. As a side note, you can't do this to Novus2. I know, you were wondering... (though Novus2 does have pet dist, it is very minimal.)

USE YOUR NOSE. Pet dist smells!! If it smells nasty, it IS nasty!! Avoid high pet dist waxes. A "real" wax smells like wax.

Now examine this picture...

posts.jpg

This is where i really HATE HATE HATE wax and the people that use it. let me explain...

Most people that wax don't have a clue how to properly apply it. Notice Vid largely left out this part, probably the most important part. How you apply wax is WAY more important that which wax you use. All waxes (assuming a reasonable paste wax brand) will offer about the same protection. The differences, at best, are minimal. Don't focus on using Brand X opposed to Johnsons opposed to Meguires, etc etc. It really is not that important.

What IS important is how you apply it.
But that said, I still think most people cause more damage to their games using wax, opposed to using just say Novus2 (which any idiot can apply without damaging their machine.)

Wax needs to be applied in a very minimal manner. I know this is America, bigger is better, more is better than less, so on, so on. The fact of the matter is this. If you are going to wax (and again, i really don't suggest it), use very little wax on your rag, and only one coat is needed.

That said, let's look at that picture again...

posts.jpg

What is happening here? Well someone applied too much wax. OK i guess that's not a big deal to the casual observer, but frankly it IS a big deal. Remember this picture??

waxonfire3.jpg

So what happens is that people apply too much wax, it gets into the flutes of the plastic posts (and under plastic ramps), and sits there. Forever. And since wax is a good sealer, what this does is lock in the Pet Dist against the plastic posts and ramps. Add time (and frankly, not really that much time), and the Pet Dist starts to dissolve the plastic it touches. The wax prevents the Pet Dist from evaporating, and it eventually melts and weakens the plastic.

Ever take apart a game and notice the plastic posts are cracked, missing pieces, and generally deteriorating so they are not usable? Also happen to notice they have white in the flutes? That's wax. And the wax locked in the pet dist, which accelerated the plastic's demise. Happens on ramps too.

So bottom line... Waxing is not without risk. So much so, that i tell people to completely avoid it. Because it's just too easy to "get it wrong" and cause bigger problems. you think playfield wear is a problem on the games you use at home? My opinion is it's not. Trying to solve one "problem" (that really isn't a problem), creates another problem.

My suggestion is to use Novus2 and STOP. One thing Vid did get right in his posts is that you don't need to use Novus2 all the time. So how often do you use it? And how much?

With Novus2, put a dime sized dollop on the playfield. Use a nice soft rag to wipe it around. Pressure is needed for a good polish. That is, elbow grease. Don't worry you're not going to wear out your playfield. Even on old lacquer fields, you'll be fine. I've been using Novus2 for 25 years on games ranging from woodrails to the newest sterns. I've even used power polishers with Novus2 and it's just not abrasive (even when i want it to be!)

Always polish off the Novus2 with a different clean soft rag after the cleaning.

----
Now about rubber....
Vid says to replace it. Well as long as you're not buying white rubber from Pinball Life (too soft, the stuff is awful), cleaning rubber is a better approach in most cases. Rubber costs money and time to replace it (especially on "layered" games like anything with ramps, etc.) I've had white rubber on many of my EMs for 15 years and i challenge you to tell me it doesn't look like new rubber.

That said, you need to keep your rubber clean. If rubber gets too dirty, there's no cleaning it, just won't work. Then you're at Vid's point of replacement. So to prevent this, keep it clean. It will make your game look better and play better, and make the rubber last a long time.

I look at the front edge of the red (or EM white) flipper rubber for black marks. Also the slingshot rubbers too. Are those getting black? then it's time to clean your game. Clean the rubber with lighter fluid (i buy Naptha from Home Depot but also use cheap party store lighter fluid too, it works the same.) The Home Depot version is cheaper because it's more bulk style, but the party store variety has a nicer application bottle.

lighterfluid.jpg

I use a rag or a paper towel. Put some fluid on a spot of the rag about the size of a nickel and wipe the rubber where it's dirty. you can get lighter fluid on the playfield or ramp, it will not harm them. It evaporates quickly when it's not locked in (with say WAX).

Since the rubber was dirty, I also clean the playfield. Just some light Novus2 and you're done. No removal of parts required. Even on complicated layered games you can get about 85% of the playing surface.

This whole process of cleaning the rubber and the playfield takes UNDER TWO MINUTES.

At the Ann Arbor pinball museum we are now up to 300 games. With this comes A LOT of game cleaning. We do this simple two minute clean job to keep the games playing and looking nice. Personally I've been using this technique for 25 years. It works and it's non-invasive. I teach people to do this quick clean job often. It keeps your game looking and playing nice, and makes the rubber last.

There ya have it, another side of the story to consider....

Ok so now let's talk about some other stuff, and also where Vid either under informed or mis informed. Again my opinion, take it as you see it.

First, let's talk about playfield wear. Using Vid's initial picture, this is what many playfield do look like on a microscopic level.

cross1.jpg

Using this picture, you can understand how a playfield wears. (Or at least one way it wears, the other, we'll talk about later.) What happens is as the ball rolls across this surface, it gets "ball hop". What this in turn make the hills and valleys deeper. Keep doing this, and the paint starts to come off the playfield (i.e. "wear".)

This is an important thing to know. Because the smoother your playfield, the less it will wear. That is, there's less hills and valleys for the ball to traverse, and less ball hop, and therefore less playfield wear.

So how do you solve this issue? Novus2 is a good way. Because like vid explained, getting the surface smoother is the ultimate goal.

cross3.jpg

The thing he doesn't tell you, is that getting there 90% is more than sufficient. That is, stopping after Novus2 is really all that is needed. Sure you can add wax, but it doesn't do what Vid says it doesn. to the wax idea, here's where vid is wrong. Let's look at his last cross section picture...

cross4.jpg

This is incorrect. Wax does not work this way. Wax does not put a layer (like a clear coat) on top of smooth surface. A better pictorial explanation of wax would be shown is his third, which is what he describes as the PF after Novus2.

Wax does not sit on top of a playfield. Remember how you put wax down? You put A LITTLE on a rag, then essentially elbow grease it into the surface... Then wait for it to haze ("dry"), then buff it off. What you are doing is putting wax into the valleys of the playfield surface. You are NOT putting a layer on top of the clear coat. You are filling valleys with wax. (This is why a lot of guys use multiple wax coats, to more completely fill the valleys.)

The act of buffing off the haze removes all the wax, except for those portions that are in the valleys. And heck if you polish the wax off too much, or polish before it's dry (hazed), you can buff the wax out of the valleys too!

So please don't think that waxing is like adding a soft clear coat. It's not.

So basically if Novus2 gets you 90% there, why would you go any further? Especially given the risks shown with wax in the prior post. Is Novus2 wearing your playfield? sure to some degree, but it gets it smooth and largely keeps it that way, which is the ultimate objective. And besides, the hills being "taken off" by Novus2 really are needed to be gone, if you ultimately want your playfield to wear less.

So where is wax completely useless?
The smoother the base playfield, the less wax will do. If you just got a clearcoated playfield from HSA, and it looks like a mirror, waxing will do nothing. Absolutely nothing. That's why waxing urethane auto clear playfields is not really going to help anything (besides potentially making you feel better.)

Where wax does work well is on older lacquer playfield that have many more surface defect. Defects that just won't go smooth with Novus2.

So now what about the other kind of wear I eluded to? This is known as ball skid wear.

Look at it this way... the wear I initially described is what happens when a ball *rolls* over a playfield. That applies to basically all EM games with 30 volt coils. But anything from the 1980s on, where ramps are involved, and newer 43 to 70 volt coils, things become different.

With high playfield slopes, big ramps, big flipper coils, and high coil voltage you get a new kind of wear. This is ball skid wear.

Look at it this way... Say you're playing a Gottlieb EM and have the ball trapped on the flipper (you're holding in the flipper button.) Release the button, aim and make your shoot. Largely the ball will leave the flipper bat "rolling."

Now change that scenario to a 1990s game with big flipper coils. When the ball leaves the flipper bat, the ball is SKIDDING off the bat, not rolling! This is why you're starting to see playfields with this kind of wear:

skid.jpg

A lot of people, myself included, thought this wear was from broken flipper bushing. Perhaps some of it was, but the majority of this type of wear is from the ball just skidding off the high power flipper bat.

So bottom line, will wax help skid wear? HELL NO. Sorry, the only thing what will save this wear is more clearcoat, or mylar.

Skid wear is also seen other places. Like around pop bumpers and in front of sling shots. Pop bumpers are a bit unique, but they force the ball DOWN when "popped". This gives them both ball hop and skid! yikes! Again only mylar is going to help this. Perhaps on 30 volt EM games wax would help a bit, but largely pop bumpers will need mylar to prevent wear.

Slingshots (other than Bally linears, which only provide skid wear), have a similar effect as pop bumpers. This is why for years Bally and Williams gave away half circle mylar patches for these areas.

Anyway, i hope this helps. And again, wax isn't really what it's made out to be...

What a great thread. Thanks for sharing all the info Vid and Cfh!

Rubbers.

1) Who do you buy the "white rubbers" from if not Pinball life? I agree, too soft and bouncy.

2) How about the "super band rubbers" for longer life and less mess?

Waxing seems to make your balls fly again, for a short while, although maybe not a good thing.

If you have a good clear on your play field isn't the Wax just protecting the "clear"?

In a HUO environment, it seems it would be hard to wear through a good clear job in a lifetime?

If i ever did wear through the clear, then you wax?

Or, sell the pin and replace.....or swap out the play field with a freshly cleared surface?

Since I'm lazy I really like the 2 minute cleaning job!

Three things I do which takes less than 5 minutes is..

1) Use a hand swiffer to pick up dirt and dust everywhere, gets into tight spots

2) I have a hand held Dyson vacuum and use it at the same time

3) Check and replace balls often

4) Now I'll add the Novus 2 treatment

I know I am always open to newer and sometimes better ways to do things. Alot of us are unsure of the proper way. How about a short video of the "proper" way to wax a play field so we have something to visually go off of. By the sounds of things I am using way too much when I do mine. I don't think most of us will ever stop waxing, the speed and extra play field protection will keep me motivated to do it. Thanks for all the thoughts!

its not just that it lasts longer, it seems blitz gives off a nicer finish somehow?> ive used them all. they are all paste wax i know... but.
maybe im seeing things...

On rubber I don't mean to beat up pinball life's rubber but it just does not work in my situation. Terry has his own rubber formula and his own molds. If you look at his rubber it always has the PL molded onto the rubber. His rubber has a durometer rating of about 30. Normal white rubber is about 40, and normal black rubber is about 50 , Where the higher the number the harder the rubber.

For the average homeowner having a nice soft super white rubber works fine. Most homeowners probably only play their game 200 times a year basically once every other day or so. Terry is selling rubber to this crowd, and feels that this is his customer base, so he has no reason to change his rubber formula. But for people like myself and others that operate games, and pin life rubber is way too soft. It eats itself alive and is gone dirty and tears and usable in a very short time.

Pretty much rubber from any other source works well in my opinion. I've had good luck with pinball resource rubber and Marco rubber. In particular Marco sells a slightly higher durometer rating white rubber that works very well in a commercial environment.

I personally do not like non original style rubber. Though the new urethanes and silicones seem to be the rage, I do not like how they feel and I do not like how they look. They also do not get dirty in the same way, which is a bad thing for me personally. Because I use rubber as the indicator as to when the games need to be cleaned. This is why we never used black rubber at the museum. I need white rubber and red flipper rubber to know when the game needs to be cleaned.

I strongly suggest you try titan silicone. Plays like real rubber and cleans up much easier.

Again vid you're just wrong. In fact a good number of the information that you have presented in this series is just incorrect. I can use the same argument against you that correlation is not causation. I know for fact that the pet dist in wax that gets basically trapped against the post does in fact cause them to disintegrate. Sure there are other factors that cause posts to break too but wax is just one more thing that is not good for them. And again it largely happens because people do not know how to wax. They put too much on, it gets slathered all over everything, and basically create a big giant mess out of the whole playfield.

Wax can be a good thing if used correctly, in some circumstances. The problem is you have not describe how to use it correctly. You have implied that is a layer of clear coat over top of the existing surface. This is not correct. So stop saying incorrect information like this that is just plain wrong.

I am not going to reply anymore to this thread. You can beat me up on all the casual points that you think are incorrect. I guess this is why there are opinions but when you state things as fact that are in fact opinion that is just not the right thing to do.

As far as star posts are concerned, just brushing them with a small sized toothbrush (a good one) quickly removes most wax deposits.

And it's always appreciated when TWO of pinball's most trusted sources of valuable restoration and repair information have a civil discussion about an important topic that impacts us all. How well people maintain their games impacts us all, eventually, as pins tend to move from home to home. It's in everyone's best interest to get this stuff right, and put the best information out there.

Carry on, gentlemen...

-mof

I'm gonna try the Titan rings. Different Colors look cool too.

Great info guys. More than one way to skin a cat.

Both of you guys are right I think.

Interesting scientific information on the thickness of a coat of wax (applied to a smooth surface).

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=127943&page=4

And after a second coat.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=127943&page=5

If you have anything quantifiable in regards to wax being bad for plastics, please share since I have been unable to find anything to support that conclusion.

In a friendly, non-combative way, can I ask if you know this for a fact what your evidence is? We could all learn from people posting the proof behind their claims of facts.

That said, let's just assume you're right. That isn't really much of an argument against waxing, just one against globbing crap all over your posts. I mean, it's ugly, even if it was perfectly safe why would anyone want to do that?

That's a well-put question.
Do we still value "experience" in 2015, or do we now only value the results of "scientists"... ?
Isn't one of the most important aspects of "good date" the sample size?
Who's done more tests on pinball playfields and wax, someone like cfh/vid1900, or perhaps a scientist testing wax for a weekend with 1 sample?
Just asking...
-mof

For us sad sacks in California where Naptha isn't sold is this a safe alternative?

I bought the little bottle of ronsinol lighter fluid in the meantime.

image.jpg

It's also hard to reconcile advice to not "trap wax" due to PDs when it seems the universal advice is to put down wax before you apply mylar.

I'd be happy to not wax. By the time I'm done with a shop job, it's pretty hard to find the patience to wait for the wax!

Wax most certainly leaves itself on the surface and not jay in the valleys. That's why we wait for it to have before BUFFING not removing the wax.

Glaze is what we use to fill valleys in clear on cars... But glaze does not harden and stay itself... Which is why we coat and seal it with things like wax.

Everyone should be aware of the idea of water beading on a car after waxing... And that's because of the wax layer... That also wears down with weather and washing.

The deep looking 'wetness' of a wax job comes for the layer of wax left behind... And not just in scratches. The filling of scratches helps hide them but doesn't account for the finish on the rest of the surface.

As for plastic posts dying after a decade of residual wax... Wait for it... Who cares! Plastic posts are easily replaced if there is damage.

Replacing posts is something you might be a bit more concerned about, if you were maintaining 150 games, just saying...
-mof