Yes you are right. I just meant don’t buy the soft stuff or sprays. Get the old fashion can of hard caranuba and use some elbow grease to soften it.

I use maguires since I have it for my cars. The difference between brands for pinball use isn’t detectable.

I'm currently using Meguiar's Gold Class carnuba wax on my games. Prior to this, I had been using Millwax (i.e. silicone based). What I've noticed is that when I used Millwax, the playfield was slick as snot... but it didn't last all that long. Maybe after 40-50 game plays, I could start to notice it just wasn't as slick. When using the Meguiar's wax, I can't say that it ever seemed as slick as the Millwax. In fact, I can see a spinning ball gain traction on a playfield and curve a different direction even after a fresh waxing, whereas when I used Millwax, ball traction on the playfield seemed less. Gotta say, even though I try to keep my games clean and waxed, that ball traction on the playfield worries me a bit of the playfield being potentially worn. Am I worrying too much or would you recommend ditching the Meguiar's stuff and go with something like Blitz or P21s? Is the traction thing typical of carnuba waxed playfields more so than silicone waxed; are others noticing this? BTW, the only reason why I stopped using Millwax was because of reading Vid's write-up on why he doesn't like silicone waxes. A buddy of mine basically said, just wax it on a regular occasion and don't worry about it.

Just get the blitz 1 grand from Terry at pinball life.

Its proven and a fair price.

https://www.pinballlife.com/blitz-carnauba-paste-wax-12-ounce-jar.html

FWIW, I use my fingers (no rag or cloth) to spread the wax around on the playing field. The warmth helps soften the wax, and I have better control where the wax goes...

I use Mothers and it does a great job.

The problem with this discussion is that it has become too long, and many things are just going around in circles. The 100% carnuba issue was previously discussed if not beaten to death. This and many other topics that have been neatly spelled out (like getting naphtha) come up again and again because new people coming in don't want to take the time to slug through nearly 2,000 posts. I can't really blame them for this, this is the reason I stopped reading much at the AVS forums, when you are trying to research a specific thing you are often confronted with discussions that are thousands long, sometimes even over 10,000. Its just too tedious and time-consuming to read through it all to educate yourself, so you end up just asking your newbie question at the end so it can be answered all over again.

Probably the best way to resolve would be for someone to go through it all and pull out all of the important details, ignore the chaff, and organize it so it becomes an easy-to-reference guide. The table of contents with links to various topics in the first post does help, not sure if people try looking at that and using it though.

Good advice!!

My recommendation to anyone... Just scroll to the top of the page and where it says "Find in Topic" type vid1900 into the "Posts by pinsider..." box. Voila... you have an easily readable guide cutting out all the extraneous advice from everyone else.

yep, pinball life. Combined with other pinball stuff I needed! I agree it is a little more money, but the difference is worth it. Plus, it will last a long time!

So one could fingers to spread the wax, elbows to spread the grease, and tongues to spread the rumors?

And eyes to lie!

Just used Ronsonol Lighter Fluid on a playfield for the first time. It cleaned my NASCAR *very* well. New rubbers, wax, put it all back together and couldn't be happier. That stuff works "as advertised."

nascar (resized).jpg

It's great stuff in a handy small container.

Is this the equivalent of Mist N Shine?

949A33B7-ED5A-4ADC-9A23-2EDD4CE4444D (resized).jpeg

Pretty much

Thanks, couldn’t find Mist N Shine anywhere and figured this was the same thing.

Does anyone use a favorite tool to either spread the carnauba or remove it? I have always done it by hand, just looking to spice it up. Saw this at Home Depot. Would obviously have to cover the heads with different/softer(cotton) material. The included heads are way too abrasive and would ruin the clearcoat.
dremel-specialty-hand-tools-pc10-01-64_1000 (resized).jpg

This seems like a quick ticket to burning through the clear coat in a heartbeat.

It's a solution without a problem...

Would help with removing the hazed wax... but way over doing it.

The biggest 'work' in doing this should be avoiding getting wax on things (and any masking some may like to do for that) and cleaning up any dust or stuff left in holes/slots. If application or buffing is alot of work.. start asking questions why. Putting wax on should be effortless except for steering..

Worth noting that many (most) QD sprays are silicone based.

Its been a while since I checked in here, but since I've been hardcore into the automotive detailing scene again, I can't believe how many awesome products that are on the market now. Carnuba based waxes are very old school nowadays (but still have a place). I want to ask vid1900 again if he's experimented with SiO2 based ceramic coatings on pinball machines yet and if he had anything to report. Theres also several other products I am interested in such as liquid sealants, which are much more durable than carnuba, easier to apply and WAY easier to remove than carnuba, and last a lot longer while still delivering amazing gloss and protection. There's even some sprays such as turtle wax seal n shine that have me wondering if theres a better way than the old way. Just wondering if you've had a chance to experiment with any of the exciting products that have made their way to the auto market the past couple years. If you'd like some specific recommendations let me know. I realize good for automotive doesn't necessarily translate to good for pinball, but there should be some overlap.

The problems with modern ceramic coatings and polymers is that they are difficult to renew. And some are difficult to apply.

They just are not designed for having a heavy steel ball grind fine metal fillings into them.

Once applied they stay put, black flings, ball tracks and everything else.

As an example, Full playfield mylar has been available for decades, it's very durable but It's impossible to renew.

Carnauba is hard enough and plenty durable, yet can easily be stripped of with naptha and reapplied. You just have to rewax every so often to clean off the metal filings.

It's not so much about the durability of the coating as it is about being able to renew it.

This thread has me wondering if I am doing this completely wrong or not.

I got my nib batman 66 yesterday. I opened up the carnuba wax and rubbed a coat onto the payfield. 20-30 minutes later I took a clean cloth to it and tried to "buff it out".

Maybe that process is ok?

So next time I want to wax it, it sounds like I need to be using something to remove the old wax?

sorry guys noob pinball owner (again)

You can wax over wax, no issue.

Anything deeper, then you'll wanna use naptha to clean off and clean up - if necessary.

You bring up a good point, however I'd argue that the wax will do nothing to really stop the fine grindings into the playfield, as its just too soft. The benefit, to your point, is that it cleans up easily, so any metal deposits in the wax can be wiped away.

All that said, renewing ceramic is pretty easy with various topper products and applying it is very easy as well with the right products. I think the most difficult part would be ensuring the playfield was clean enough from any previous products in order to properly apply the coating. I'm tempted to give it a try on a playfield I don't care about too much. Wax is not designed to have a hard ball rolling against it either and comparing wax or ceramic to mylar is kind of apples to oranges. Even comparing them to the polycarbonate overlays that are available is a bit different, but closer, and those hold up pretty well to ball marks and whatnot. Like I said, I like your points, definitely some things I haven't considered, but I'm still curious.

There may be some hints here and there in this thread that wax (by itself) protects the playfield from the mechanical contact of the ball. Although as far as I know Vid never says this. I postulate that there is no way this is possible. Wax probably protects against UV (if it is exposed to such), makes things cleaner, and makes the ball run more smoothly or quickly, but it doesn't actually serve as a physical protective layer to protect whatever is underneath from being exposed to the ball rolling over it. I would expect that using new, clean, non-pitted, non-scratched balls is 1000 times more effective to prevent actual damage than putting on a layer of wax.

If you read about car wax, the same thing is stated. Wax in no way protects the paint (or clearcoat if you would) against things such as physical scratches, flying debris on the road, etc. Its mainly there to protect against the sun and water and to add a shiny smooth coat.

I need to ask what I am doing wrong, when cleaning. I have a HUO Metallica, being played a couple of times daily. I think I change my balls out often enough. I use Novus 1 for cleaning with nice micro fiber cloths. Mill wax for waxing, but the info in this thread, ill bemoving way from that to either blitz or carnuba.

With that said, it just seems I have more black ball trails than I would expect. Rubbers are wearing out and some have been replaced already. Are there areas/spots on a pin that need more attention, regardless of title?
Thanks in advance.

I don’t use anything other than blitz wax. Where are you buying your rubber rings from. I’ve seen at least one thread about the quality of Pinball Life and Pinball Resource rubber being inferior to Marcos. They all use different dies, but Marco’s paid to have new dies made at the factory. PL and PR are using the same old dies that have been around for years.

Thanks for the response. I cannot tell you where the new rings came from, locally sourced.. I had some getting super thin and wanted to replace immediately so i could keep playing. Sounds like a complete set of Marcos is a start.. Thank you.

That Mill wax will be hell to remove if you should ever go to refinish your PF. The silicon is very, very difficult to remove unless completely sanding it off.

Black ball tracking is from coil dust pure and simple.

Clean out all the coils and coil sleeves, wipe down the coil stops etc.

Clean off the wiring and all of the hidden place that the dust accumulates.

Clean off all the rubber or replace it after the game us clean.

Vacuum out everything including the cabinet.

Blow out everything with compressed air etc...

Each solenoid is a little air piston that sprays dust everywhere.

Thanks a bunch!!!!

Is my California bottle of Ronsonol Lighter Fuel that "contains light petroleum distillate", safe to use on my CC'd playfields? pinballinreno

CAS # 68410-97-9 & # 64742-49-0

I'm assuming non CA bottles have a different formulation? Do bottles still prominently advertise "contains Naphtha" on the front?

Thanks

20190615_102849 (resized).jpg

Yes

Hey guys this happened to my playfield and I have no idea what to do. I was using Novus 1,2 and 3 on the display in the playfield plastic, but not the playfield, but obviously something happened. I tried waxing this several times, it wont come off
Anyone have ideas?

IMG_2394 (resized).jpeg

Maybe some simple green and a ME pad. Don't be overly aggressive and start by doing a small area first. If it works, clean/wax and you're good to go.

I'm not sure what I'm looking at.
Looks like clearcoat blush?

Here’s another photo .. again I have no idea how this happened. But it won’t come off !

3679737D-6271-4698-86D7-9CB37B825470 (resized).jpeg

It's not a stain.

It's either clearcoat delamination or moisture in the cure.

I looks more like trapped humidity in the clear.

If that's the case it may go away.
It often does.
It happens when clear is sprayed in a high humidity environment.

It sometimes takes months to appear

Leave it alone.

I hope it’s not from accidentally using that novus on my playfield
Plastic . I didn’t even use it in this area. Maybe when I sprayed novus 1 on the plastic panel some weeped into the playfield ? Because there are like 3-4 of these spots ?

No.
The playfield is impervious to anything you might apply.

They just aren't that delicate once cleared.

Plus its maple plywood. Pretty durable stuff.

Don't overthink it.

So just leave it alone and hope it goes away ? Thanks again for ur help it
Looks about the same today. I’m crossing my fingers

D42A5BFF-7935-417E-B857-A1A8EC4678DE (resized).jpeg

Basically if its smooth to the touch, wait it out. It can go away.
I've seen it on cars.

If it changes for the worst, you will know, and have to re- clear the playfield when it's time.

Ok thanks man! yeah its smooth, I dont feel anything weird about it. Such a weird situation. I hope it resolves, because this is my favorite pin in my collection.

I guys! I'm thinking about cleaning the playfield of my PINBOT. I've read Vid's Guide and I found out that the best cleaner for it is VM&P Naphta manufactured by Klean Strip.

I my country there's not possible to buy the procucts of this supplier that's why I need to ask you for advice.
In my country I'm able to buy product called "Nafta" which is used for cleaning tools, for traditional lamps (it's flammable) etc. It is petroleum product and smells terrebly. Do you think this is the same product and it's safe for my playfield?

Its really hard to say.
But if its listed as a lamp or cooking fuel, then it's likely the same thing.

Sometimes you can find coleman cooking fuel, its naptha.

Naptha is also used here for cleaning tools.

Yes naptha can smell bad.

Paint thinner also smells bad and is a lot like naptha but leaves oily redidue sometimes.

If you smear it on glass and it evaporates clean, it's ok to use.

Automotive clearcoat is fairly immune to gasoline and fuels like naptha.

In Australia it is called ‘Shellite’ as it is a brand name under the Shell petroleum company. I don’t know whether it has been only allowed under this name in Australia or why it isn’t called Naptha.

What I can say is the product ingredient list says ‘100% Hydrocarbons’ - so if your brand says this then I could only imagine you are right to go.

I contacted Mirco because its a Mirco playfield. He said its from buffing dust and to use 3M green polish maybe needs a buffer. As long as its not a clear coat issue, and not going to get worse, I may just leave it alone, unless someone knows someone in Michigan who can come to my house and fix this?
Thanks

Buffing dust would come off with a little naptha.

If not, wait it out.

Does anyone know anyone in Michigan that can come take a look and maybe fix it ? A pro at paints and buffing etc ?

Forgive me if I missed this after only reading the first 900 or so posts in this thread, but how does the above reconcile with your oft-quoted
"Wipe with soft cloth moistened with Novus1 or Simple Green"?

Do you mean don't spray Simple Green DIRECTLY onto the playfield but it's ok to apply with a towel? Or is there some other hidden meaning between these two apparently conflicting directives? Also, are you diluting the Simple Green per the label or using it full strength? My No Fear is waiting patiently for a response. And thanks for all the info so far!

Spraying fluids, especially water based fluids will have unpredictable results.

It's best to apply them to a rag and then use them.

This way you can control where they go.