(Topic ID: 137689)

Cleaning and Waxing Pinball Machines - Vid's Guide


By vid1900

3 years ago



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  • 334 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 days ago by pinballinreno
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    There are 1782 posts in this topic. You are on page 36 of 36.
    #1751 26 days ago
    Quoted from EMsInKC:

    100 percent carnauba is hard as a brick and doesn't exist in any kind of commercial wax.
    Something is always used to soften it.

    Yes you are right. I just meant don’t buy the soft stuff or sprays. Get the old fashion can of hard caranuba and use some elbow grease to soften it.

    I use maguires since I have it for my cars. The difference between brands for pinball use isn’t detectable.

    #1752 26 days ago

    I'm currently using Meguiar's Gold Class carnuba wax on my games. Prior to this, I had been using Millwax (i.e. silicone based). What I've noticed is that when I used Millwax, the playfield was slick as snot... but it didn't last all that long. Maybe after 40-50 game plays, I could start to notice it just wasn't as slick. When using the Meguiar's wax, I can't say that it ever seemed as slick as the Millwax. In fact, I can see a spinning ball gain traction on a playfield and curve a different direction even after a fresh waxing, whereas when I used Millwax, ball traction on the playfield seemed less. Gotta say, even though I try to keep my games clean and waxed, that ball traction on the playfield worries me a bit of the playfield being potentially worn. Am I worrying too much or would you recommend ditching the Meguiar's stuff and go with something like Blitz or P21s? Is the traction thing typical of carnuba waxed playfields more so than silicone waxed; are others noticing this? BTW, the only reason why I stopped using Millwax was because of reading Vid's write-up on why he doesn't like silicone waxes. A buddy of mine basically said, just wax it on a regular occasion and don't worry about it.

    #1753 26 days ago

    Just get the blitz 1 grand from Terry at pinball life.

    Its proven and a fair price.

    https://www.pinballlife.com/blitz-carnauba-paste-wax-12-ounce-jar.html

    #1754 26 days ago

    FWIW, I use my fingers (no rag or cloth) to spread the wax around on the playing field. The warmth helps soften the wax, and I have better control where the wax goes...

    #1755 26 days ago

    I use Mothers and it does a great job.

    #1756 26 days ago
    Quoted from EMsInKC:

    100 percent carnauba is hard as a brick and doesn't exist in any kind of commercial wax.
    Something is always used to soften it.

    The problem with this discussion is that it has become too long, and many things are just going around in circles. The 100% carnuba issue was previously discussed if not beaten to death. This and many other topics that have been neatly spelled out (like getting naphtha) come up again and again because new people coming in don't want to take the time to slug through nearly 2,000 posts. I can't really blame them for this, this is the reason I stopped reading much at the AVS forums, when you are trying to research a specific thing you are often confronted with discussions that are thousands long, sometimes even over 10,000. Its just too tedious and time-consuming to read through it all to educate yourself, so you end up just asking your newbie question at the end so it can be answered all over again.

    Probably the best way to resolve would be for someone to go through it all and pull out all of the important details, ignore the chaff, and organize it so it becomes an easy-to-reference guide. The table of contents with links to various topics in the first post does help, not sure if people try looking at that and using it though.

    #1757 26 days ago
    Quoted from rlbohon3:

    A buddy of mine basically said, just wax it on a regular occasion and don't worry about it.

    Good advice!!

    Quoted from xsvtoys:

    The problem with this discussion is that it has become too long, and many things are just going around in circles. ...

    Probably the best way to resolve would be for someone to go through it all and pull out all of the important details, ignore the chaff, and organize it so it becomes an easy-to-reference guide.

    My recommendation to anyone... Just scroll to the top of the page and where it says "Find in Topic" type vid1900 into the "Posts by pinsider..." box. Voila... you have an easily readable guide cutting out all the extraneous advice from everyone else.

    #1758 26 days ago

    yep, pinball life. Combined with other pinball stuff I needed! I agree it is a little more money, but the difference is worth it. Plus, it will last a long time!

    #1759 26 days ago
    Quoted from Pinwalk:

    FWIW, I use my fingers (no rag or cloth) to spread the wax around on the playing field. The warmth helps soften the wax, and I have better control where the wax goes...

    So one could fingers to spread the wax, elbows to spread the grease, and tongues to spread the rumors?

    #1760 25 days ago
    Quoted from fanuminski:

    So one could fingers to spread the wax, elbows to spread the grease, and tongues to spread the rumors?

    And eyes to lie!

    #1761 24 days ago

    Just used Ronsonol Lighter Fluid on a playfield for the first time. It cleaned my NASCAR *very* well. New rubbers, wax, put it all back together and couldn't be happier. That stuff works "as advertised."

    nascar (resized).jpg
    #1762 24 days ago
    Quoted from scottslash:

    Just used Ronsonol Lighter Fluid on a playfield for the first time. It cleaned my NASCAR *very* well. New rubbers, wax, put it all back together and couldn't be happier. That stuff works "as advertised." [quoted image]

    It's great stuff in a handy small container.

    1 week later
    #1763 11 days ago

    Is this the equivalent of Mist N Shine?

    949A33B7-ED5A-4ADC-9A23-2EDD4CE4444D (resized).jpeg
    #1764 11 days ago
    Quoted from Budman:

    Is this the equivalent of Mist N Shine?[quoted image]

    Pretty much

    #1765 11 days ago

    Thanks, couldn’t find Mist N Shine anywhere and figured this was the same thing.

    #1766 11 days ago

    Does anyone use a favorite tool to either spread the carnauba or remove it? I have always done it by hand, just looking to spice it up. Saw this at Home Depot. Would obviously have to cover the heads with different/softer(cotton) material. The included heads are way too abrasive and would ruin the clearcoat.
    dremel-specialty-hand-tools-pc10-01-64_1000 (resized).jpg

    #1767 10 days ago
    Quoted from hd60609:

    Does anyone use a favorite tool to either spread the carnauba or remove it? I have always done it by hand, just looking to spice it up. Saw this at Home Depot. Would obviously have to cover the heads with different/softer(cotton) material. The included heads are way too abrasive and would ruin the clearcoat.
    [quoted image]

    This seems like a quick ticket to burning through the clear coat in a heartbeat.

    #1768 10 days ago
    Quoted from hd60609:

    Does anyone use a favorite tool to either spread the carnauba or remove it? I have always done it by hand, just looking to spice it up. Saw this at Home Depot. Would obviously have to cover the heads with different/softer(cotton) material. The included heads are way too abrasive and would ruin the clearcoat.
    [quoted image]

    It's a solution without a problem...

    Would help with removing the hazed wax... but way over doing it.

    The biggest 'work' in doing this should be avoiding getting wax on things (and any masking some may like to do for that) and cleaning up any dust or stuff left in holes/slots. If application or buffing is alot of work.. start asking questions why. Putting wax on should be effortless except for steering..

    #1769 8 days ago
    Quoted from Budman:

    Is this the equivalent of Mist N Shine?[quoted image]

    Worth noting that many (most) QD sprays are silicone based.

    Its been a while since I checked in here, but since I've been hardcore into the automotive detailing scene again, I can't believe how many awesome products that are on the market now. Carnuba based waxes are very old school nowadays (but still have a place). I want to ask vid1900 again if he's experimented with SiO2 based ceramic coatings on pinball machines yet and if he had anything to report. Theres also several other products I am interested in such as liquid sealants, which are much more durable than carnuba, easier to apply and WAY easier to remove than carnuba, and last a lot longer while still delivering amazing gloss and protection. There's even some sprays such as turtle wax seal n shine that have me wondering if theres a better way than the old way. Just wondering if you've had a chance to experiment with any of the exciting products that have made their way to the auto market the past couple years. If you'd like some specific recommendations let me know. I realize good for automotive doesn't necessarily translate to good for pinball, but there should be some overlap.

    #1770 7 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Worth noting that many (most) QD sprays are silicone based.
    Its been a while since I checked in here, but since I've been hardcore into the automotive detailing scene again, I can't believe how many awesome products that are on the market now. Carnuba based waxes are very old school nowadays (but still have a place). I want to ask vid1900 again if he's experimented with SiO2 based ceramic coatings on pinball machines yet and if he had anything to report. Theres also several other products I am interested in such as liquid sealants, which are much more durable than carnuba, easier to apply and WAY easier to remove than carnuba, and last a lot longer while still delivering amazing gloss and protection. There's even some sprays such as turtle wax seal n shine that have me wondering if theres a better way than the old way. Just wondering if you've had a chance to experiment with any of the exciting products that have made their way to the auto market the past couple years. If you'd like some specific recommendations let me know. I realize good for automotive doesn't necessarily translate to good for pinball, but there should be some overlap.

    The problems with modern ceramic coatings and polymers is that they are difficult to renew. And some are difficult to apply.

    They just are not designed for having a heavy steel ball grind fine metal fillings into them.

    Once applied they stay put, black flings, ball tracks and everything else.

    As an example, Full playfield mylar has been available for decades, it's very durable but It's impossible to renew.

    Carnauba is hard enough and plenty durable, yet can easily be stripped of with naptha and reapplied. You just have to rewax every so often to clean off the metal filings.

    It's not so much about the durability of the coating as it is about being able to renew it.

    #1771 7 days ago

    This thread has me wondering if I am doing this completely wrong or not.

    I got my nib batman 66 yesterday. I opened up the carnuba wax and rubbed a coat onto the payfield. 20-30 minutes later I took a clean cloth to it and tried to "buff it out".

    Maybe that process is ok?

    So next time I want to wax it, it sounds like I need to be using something to remove the old wax?

    sorry guys noob pinball owner (again)

    #1772 7 days ago
    Quoted from TronGuy:

    This thread has me wondering if I am doing this completely wrong or not.
    I got my nib batman 66 yesterday. I opened up the carnuba wax and rubbed a coat onto the payfield. 20-30 minutes later I took a clean cloth to it and tried to "buff it out".
    Maybe that process is ok?
    So next time I want to wax it, it sounds like I need to be using something to remove the old wax?
    sorry guys noob pinball owner (again)

    You can wax over wax, no issue.

    Anything deeper, then you'll wanna use naptha to clean off and clean up - if necessary.

    #1773 7 days ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    The problems with modern ceramic coatings and polymers is that they are difficult to renew. And some are difficult to apply.
    They just are not designed for having a heavy steel ball grind fine metal fillings into them.
    Once applied they stay put, black flings, ball tracks and everything else.
    As an example, Full playfield mylar has been available for decades, it's very durable but It's impossible to renew.
    Carnauba is hard enough and plenty durable, yet can easily be stripped of with naptha and reapplied. You just have to rewax every so often to clean off the metal filings.
    It's not so much about the durability of the coating as it is about being able to renew it.

    You bring up a good point, however I'd argue that the wax will do nothing to really stop the fine grindings into the playfield, as its just too soft. The benefit, to your point, is that it cleans up easily, so any metal deposits in the wax can be wiped away.

    All that said, renewing ceramic is pretty easy with various topper products and applying it is very easy as well with the right products. I think the most difficult part would be ensuring the playfield was clean enough from any previous products in order to properly apply the coating. I'm tempted to give it a try on a playfield I don't care about too much. Wax is not designed to have a hard ball rolling against it either and comparing wax or ceramic to mylar is kind of apples to oranges. Even comparing them to the polycarbonate overlays that are available is a bit different, but closer, and those hold up pretty well to ball marks and whatnot. Like I said, I like your points, definitely some things I haven't considered, but I'm still curious.

    #1774 7 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    You bring up a good point, however I'd argue that the wax will do nothing to really stop the fine grindings into the playfield, as its just too soft. The benefit, to your point, is that it cleans up easily, so any metal deposits in the wax can be wiped away.
    All that said, renewing ceramic is pretty easy with various topper products and applying it is very easy as well with the right products. I think the most difficult part would be ensuring the playfield was clean enough from any previous products in order to properly apply the coating. I'm tempted to give it a try on a playfield I don't care about too much. Wax is not designed to have a hard ball rolling against it either and comparing wax or ceramic to mylar is kind of apples to oranges. Even comparing them to the polycarbonate overlays that are available is a bit different, but closer, and those hold up pretty well to ball marks and whatnot. Like I said, I like your points, definitely some things I haven't considered, but I'm still curious.

    There may be some hints here and there in this thread that wax (by itself) protects the playfield from the mechanical contact of the ball. Although as far as I know Vid never says this. I postulate that there is no way this is possible. Wax probably protects against UV (if it is exposed to such), makes things cleaner, and makes the ball run more smoothly or quickly, but it doesn't actually serve as a physical protective layer to protect whatever is underneath from being exposed to the ball rolling over it. I would expect that using new, clean, non-pitted, non-scratched balls is 1000 times more effective to prevent actual damage than putting on a layer of wax.

    If you read about car wax, the same thing is stated. Wax in no way protects the paint (or clearcoat if you would) against things such as physical scratches, flying debris on the road, etc. Its mainly there to protect against the sun and water and to add a shiny smooth coat.

    #1775 6 days ago

    I need to ask what I am doing wrong, when cleaning. I have a HUO Metallica, being played a couple of times daily. I think I change my balls out often enough. I use Novus 1 for cleaning with nice micro fiber cloths. Mill wax for waxing, but the info in this thread, ill bemoving way from that to either blitz or carnuba.

    With that said, it just seems I have more black ball trails than I would expect. Rubbers are wearing out and some have been replaced already. Are there areas/spots on a pin that need more attention, regardless of title?
    Thanks in advance.

    #1776 6 days ago
    Quoted from Roostking:

    I need to ask what I am doing wrong, when cleaning. I have a HUO Metallica, being played a couple of times daily. I think I change my balls out often enough. I use Novus 1 for cleaning with nice micro fiber cloths. Mill wax for waxing, but the info in this thread, ill bemoving way from that to either blitz or carnuba.
    With that said, it just seems I have more black ball trails than I would expect. Rubbers are wearing out and some have been replaced already. Are there areas/spots on a pin that need more attention, regardless of title?
    Thanks in advance.

    I don’t use anything other than blitz wax. Where are you buying your rubber rings from. I’ve seen at least one thread about the quality of Pinball Life and Pinball Resource rubber being inferior to Marcos. They all use different dies, but Marco’s paid to have new dies made at the factory. PL and PR are using the same old dies that have been around for years.

    #1777 6 days ago
    Quoted from bluespin:

    I don’t use anything other than blitz wax. Where are you buying your rubber rings from. I’ve seen at least one thread about the quality of Pinball Life and Pinball Resource rubber being inferior to Marcos. They all use different dies, but Marco’s paid to have new dies made at the factory. PL and PR are using the same old dies that have been around for years.

    Thanks for the response. I cannot tell you where the new rings came from, locally sourced.. I had some getting super thin and wanted to replace immediately so i could keep playing. Sounds like a complete set of Marcos is a start.. Thank you.

    #1778 4 days ago

    That Mill wax will be hell to remove if you should ever go to refinish your PF. The silicon is very, very difficult to remove unless completely sanding it off.

    #1779 4 days ago
    Quoted from Roostking:

    I need to ask what I am doing wrong, when cleaning. I have a HUO Metallica, being played a couple of times daily. I think I change my balls out often enough. I use Novus 1 for cleaning with nice micro fiber cloths. Mill wax for waxing, but the info in this thread, ill bemoving way from that to either blitz or carnuba.
    With that said, it just seems I have more black ball trails than I would expect. Rubbers are wearing out and some have been replaced already. Are there areas/spots on a pin that need more attention, regardless of title?
    Thanks in advance.

    Black ball tracking is from coil dust pure and simple.

    Clean out all the coils and coil sleeves, wipe down the coil stops etc.

    Clean off the wiring and all of the hidden place that the dust accumulates.

    Clean off all the rubber or replace it after the game us clean.

    Vacuum out everything including the cabinet.

    Blow out everything with compressed air etc...

    Each solenoid is a little air piston that sprays dust everywhere.

    #1780 4 days ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    Black ball tracking is from coil dust pure and simple.
    Clean out all the coils and coil sleeves, wipe down the coil stops etc.
    Clean off the wiring and all of the hidden place that the dust accumulates.
    Clean off all the rubber or replace it after the game us clean.
    Vacuum out everything including the cabinet.
    Blow out everything with compressed air etc...
    Each solenoid is a little air piston that sprays dust everywhere.

    Thanks a bunch!!!!

    #1781 4 days ago

    Is my California bottle of Ronsonol Lighter Fuel that "contains light petroleum distillate", safe to use on my CC'd playfields? pinballinreno

    CAS # 68410-97-9 & # 64742-49-0

    I'm assuming non CA bottles have a different formulation? Do bottles still prominently advertise "contains Naphtha" on the front?

    Thanks

    20190615_102849 (resized).jpg
    #1782 4 days ago
    Quoted from WizWiggy:

    Is my California bottle of Ronsonol Lighter Fuel that "contains light petroleum distillate", safe to use on my CC'd playfields? pinballinreno
    CAS # 68410-97-9 & # 64742-49-0
    I'm assuming non CA bottles have a different formulation? Do bottles still prominently advertise "contains Naphtha" on the front?
    Thanks[quoted image]

    Yes

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