(Topic ID: 137689)

Cleaning and Waxing Pinball Machines - Vid's Guide


By vid1900

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 1 day ago by pinballinreno
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    There are 1813 posts in this topic. You are on page 34 of 37.
    #1651 6 months ago

    I have found old forgotten jars in my hot garage.
    They perk up perfectly if I put a damp sponge inside and tightly close the lid for a few days.

    #1652 6 months ago
    Quoted from Pinasco:

    So much useful information and shared views here - really appreciated.
    One short question on wax; the One Grand Blitz Carnauba Wax more precisely. How long do these jars with wax last in a small 3-5 collection with regular cleaning ? How long would you reckon that it is possible to store such a jar (unopened) without the wax becoming to old or dryed out ?
    I thinking of ordering my first now, and should maybe get two while I'm at it.

    They will last a long time. As long as the wax tub stays inside your home or garage and it is not allowed to freeze.

    #1654 5 months ago

    How often is it recommended to clean and wax? I'm speaking more to modern games 2000+.

    #1655 5 months ago
    Quoted from WizardsCastle:

    How often is it recommended to clean and wax? I'm speaking more to modern games 2000+.

    To keep it well protected, every 350 to 500 games.
    Change balls at 500 games or less.

    #1656 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    To keep it well protected, every 350 to 500 games.
    Change balls at 500 games or less.

    And at that mark, are you going over it with Novus 1/2 and then waxing?

    #1657 5 months ago
    Quoted from WizardsCastle:

    And at that mark, are you going over it with Novus 1/2 and then waxing?

    I never use novus1 other than maybe on plastics.

    I use novus 2 on ball tracks if naptha or lighter fluid doesnt remove them.

    Always wax over the areas I cleaned off.

    I use novus2 sparingly. It's an abrasive and isn't necessary most if the time.

    But deep ball tracks can be rubbed out a bit with novus 2 or rubbing compound #7.

    Naptha and wax does an exceptional job over-all.

    I'm not a fan if abrasives unless there's no other way.

    Theoretically with frequent waxing, you wear the wax instead of the playfield.

    If you get deep ball tracking that is into the clearcoat, you should wax those areas more frequently.

    #1658 5 months ago

    Naptha can be used instead of Novus 2 .. Excellent! I'll need to pick some up.

    I'm not at that point...yet.

    I'm pretty much replacing Novus 1 with Mist-N-Shine.

    #1659 5 months ago

    Would this work?

    LOT OF 1 FULL BOTTLE RONSONOL 12 oz BEST LIGHTER FLUID JUMBO BOTTLE amazon.com link »

    #1660 5 months ago
    Quoted from WizardsCastle:

    Would this work?
    LOT OF 1 FULL BOTTLE RONSONOL 12 oz BEST LIGHTER FLUID JUMBO BOTTLE amazon.com link »

    perfect!
    I just buy it at walmart.

    #1661 5 months ago
    Quoted from joseph5185:

    Naptha can be used instead of Novus 2 .. Excellent! I'll need to pick some up.
    I'm not at that point...yet.
    I'm pretty much replacing Novus 1 with Mist-N-Shine.

    Quoted from WizardsCastle:

    Would this work?
    LOT OF 1 FULL BOTTLE RONSONOL 12 oz BEST LIGHTER FLUID JUMBO BOTTLE amazon.com link »

    Just make sure you are using adequate ventilation with these products! Highly flammable!

    #1662 5 months ago
    Quoted from Wmsfan:

    Just make sure you are using adequate ventilation with these products! Highly flammable!

    How should they be stored.

    Also, just a dab on a microfiber, and then wipe down pf like you would with Novus 1?

    #1663 5 months ago
    Quoted from WizardsCastle:

    How should they be stored.
    Also, just a dab on a microfiber, and then wipe down pf like you would with Novus 1?

    I just out it on a paper towel.
    Throw it away when dirty or done.

    #1664 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    I just out it on a paper towel.
    Throw it away when girt or done.

    Not sure I understood anybody that, but assuming you meant that you put it on a paper towel, wipe down your pf, and then throw it away when dirty?

    Never knew paper towels were good to use on a pf.

    #1665 5 months ago
    Quoted from WizardsCastle:

    Not sure I understood anybody that, but assuming you meant that you put it on a paper towel, wipe down your pf, and then throw it away when dirty?
    Never knew paper towels were good to use on a pf.

    Hmm... maybe those blue shop towels would be okay since they don't leave residue.

    #1666 5 months ago
    Quoted from WizardsCastle:

    Not sure I understood anybody that, but assuming you meant that you put it on a paper towel, wipe down your pf, and then throw it away when dirty?
    Never knew paper towels were good to use on a pf.

    I use dollar store q-tips dipped in naptha to clean black lines off standup targets, finish with a paper towel moistened with naptha.

    Kirkland paper towels from Costco. They dont leave much lint at all.

    The playfield is clearcoated with automotive clear. It's not that fragile.

    Try to get real here.

    No one wipes the whole playfield with naptha. Only ball track areas if you see black tracking.

    #1667 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    I use dollar store q-tips dipped in naptha to clean black lines off standup targets, finish with a paper towel moistened with naptha.
    Kirkland paper towels from Costco. They dont leave much lint at all.
    The playfield is clearcoated with automotive clear. It's not that fragile.
    Try to get real here.
    No one wipes the whole playfield with naptha. Only ball track areas if you see black tracking.

    So naptha for noticably dirty area (like ball trails).

    Then clean everything off with Mist N Shine and then apply wax?

    How's that for a plan?

    #1668 5 months ago

    .

    #1669 5 months ago
    Quoted from SilverBallKid:

    Just wanted to say that after following this thread (and a few other) for a period of time, I decided to buy some Blitz Wax and give it a try on my playfields. Full disclosure - the only thing I had ever used to wax a playfield was Mother's California Gold.
    WOW! Blitz wax is superb.
    It's gonna be quite some time before I try anything else to wax a playfield. This stuff is a dream to use and the finish attained after a couple coats is just unreal.

    I only have just one game and blitz is the solution to me. These ceramic coatics sound interesting. I was trying to catch up on the thread but when the ceramics were mentioned I thought, we should try this. Like in an iron maiden. Test purposes...

    #1670 5 months ago
    Quoted from WizardsCastle:

    So naptha for noticably dirty area (like ball trails).
    Then clean everything off with Mist N Shine and then apply wax?
    How's that for a plan?

    Perfect

    #1671 5 months ago
    Quoted from Azmodeus:

    I only have just one game and blitz is the solution to me. These ceramic coatics sound interesting. I was trying to catch up on the thread but when the ceramics were mentioned I thought, we should try this. Like in an iron maiden. Test purposes...

    I'm interested in this too.
    Modern ceramic coatings are extremely aggresive.

    However there is a question of maintenance way down the road if you needed touch up work.

    The paint will not stick to it and it cannot be removed as its molecularly latched to the surface.

    Auto painters just sand it all off and repaint.

    This cant be done on a playfield.

    #1672 5 months ago

    Just waxed my Aerosmith after 365 games. I was working on something else, so while the glass is off may as well wax. Also noticed a screw on a post needed to be tightened the one between pop bumpers.

    #1673 5 months ago
    Quoted from Spiderpin:

    Just waxed my Aerosmith after 365 games. I was working on something else, so while the glass is off may as well wax. Also noticed a screw on a post needed to be tightened the one between pop bumpers.

    Yes, wax time is a good time to look for loose/broken parts

    #1674 5 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    First we need to understand that not all pinball playfields were created the same:
    An old Classic Bally, Classic Stern, EM, or Williams Sys3-11 will have an Alcohol Soluble lacquer topcoat.
    A Williams WPC or Modern Stern will have an automotive style clearcoat.
    A modern reproduction playfield (like a Mirco or CPR) will have an automotive style clearcoat.
    A professionally restored playfield will often have an automotive style clearcoat, although that is certainly not guaranteed.
    -
    So a cleaner that might be great for a Modern Stern, could actually damage a SS Bally.
    A cleaner that would be OK for a perfect WPC, might damage a worn or planked WPC.
    One size doe not fit all when it comes to cleaning a playfield.
    -
    We also need to remember that at least 5 different companies made the playfields for Bally/Stern/Williams.
    Each may have had differences in the topcoat; thickness, chemical composition and the method of application all could vary.
    Just because one person has used Novus#2 weekly for the past 25 years without sanding through the paint, does not necessarily mean that you will be able to have the same experience.

    Do you understand correctly that for each model of the table, individual care is necessary? Where can I find care instructions for a specific model? Preferably not an expensive option.

    #1675 5 months ago
    Quoted from Liam:

    Do you understand correctly that for each model of the table, individual care is necessary? Where can I find care instructions for a specific model? Preferably not an expensive option.

    Not each model per se.

    But each generation over the decades.

    Newer games have clearcoated playfields.

    Older single ball games merely had shellac over the inked artwork.

    They all need the same waxing and cleaning techniques however.

    #1676 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    I never use novus1 other than maybe on plastics.

    How come you don't use Novus 1 to clean the playfield?

    #1677 5 months ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    How come you don't use Novus 1 to clean the playfield?

    Novus 1 is expensive and a terrible cleaner on playfields that are properly waxed.

    Mist n shine is a good cleaner and puts a minute amount of wax back down.

    Its rated for detailing and spot cleaning on cars that have been clearcoated and waxed. Just like a playfield. It is NOT a wax.

    Novus1 is a cleaner for the plastics.
    Used mostly for motorcycle fairings. You can use it on your plastics if you want but you can also use mist n shine on them.

    #1678 5 months ago

    So in other words ...

    Mist-N-Shine > Novus 1
    Naptha > Novus 2

    Wax for everything else...

    =)

    #1679 5 months ago
    Quoted from joseph5185:

    So in other words ...
    Mist-N-Shine > Novus 1
    Naptha > Novus 2
    Wax for everything else...
    =)

    Novus 2 is used to abrasively grind down the clearcoat to remove scratches and deep ball tracks that cleaning wont remove.

    Excessive use of novus 2, will ultimately wear through the clear and rub off the artwork.

    Novus 2 removes the sheen of the clearcoat. You have to buff with mirror-glaze to get it back if you did a large area. Then re-wax.

    So I say, use it sparingly.

    #1680 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    Novus 2 is used to abrasively grind down the clearcoat to remove scratches and deep ball tracks that cleaning wont remove.
    Excessive use of novus 2, will ultimately wear through the clear and rub off the artwork.
    Novus 2 removes the sheen of the clearcoat. You have to buff with mirror-glaze to get it back if you did a large area. Then re-wax.
    So I say, use it sparingly.

    Hmm....im definitely not going to dispute you because i really dont know whats right or what is wrong but everyone i know uses Novus 1 to clean their playfields and they occasionally use Novus 2, especially on ball trails and these people that im talking about really know their stuff when it comes to pinball. I cant imagine Novus 2 being abrasive enough to do any damage to the clear coat on these games.

    #1681 5 months ago

    It is what it is...they'll always be the pro vs anti novus 2 opinions.

    #1682 5 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    It is what it is...they'll always be the pro vs anti novus 2 opinions.

    What is your opinion Law? We all know that you know everything so please tell us what we should do?

    #1683 5 months ago

    If you're a wax user, I think the point is if you keep it cleaned and waxed, you wont need to use Novus 2.
    Napatha is good & personally, I've been using Novus 2 for a long time & I'm not afraid of it.

    In respect to Vid since it's his thread, I must let you know novus 2 is abrasive and it's like sandpaper because it's so abrasive and it's abrasive like sandpaper like the sky is falling abrasive.

    Sanabrasivpaper

    #1684 5 months ago

    Lol novus2 is an abrasive, but it's pretty mild.

    Note that I said excessive use like daily power buffing.

    Novus2 does take the shine off mint freshly cleared playfields though, and you have to re-buff with mirror-glaze to bring it back.

    But if using power buffers it's pretty abrasive. There are milder compounds if you are buffing it a lot.

    #1685 5 months ago

    The problem with novus 1 is that it is so mild it doesn't cut the grease or wax enough to be considered a cleaner.

    Sparkle sprayed on a rag works better and is way cheaper.

    Its mostly for cleaning clear windscreens as it has no wax or abrasives in it.

    Mist n shine is better suited for waxed playfields.

    Novus1 for plastics but why have 2 things? Mist n shine cleans plastics just fine.

    #1686 5 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    I've been using Novus 2 for a long time & I'm not afraid of it

    I use it all the time for ball tracks. It's great stuff.

    But I scrub by hand in hard to buff areas and dont use it on the complete playfield.

    I power buff with milder compounds to bring it back to looking new after using it.

    #1687 5 months ago

    I'm following the last exchange of thoughts here with huge interest (like a few hundred other pinheads I guess . )

    pinballinreno: on a dirty mylarcovered pf - would you rely more on naphta or Mist-n-Shine ? Will any of these substances mess with the Mylar so that it becomes miscolored or starts to come loose from the playfield ?

    #1688 5 months ago
    Quoted from Pinasco:

    I'm following the last exchange of thoughts here with huge interest (like a few hundred other pinheads I guess . )
    pinballinreno: on a dirty mylarcovered pf - would you rely more on naphta or Mist-n-Shine ? Will any of these substances mess with the Mylar so that it becomes miscolored or starts to come loose from the playfield ?

    Naptha usually wont remove mylar but it will clean it pretty good unless dirt is ground into the plastic. It dries fast so it wont lift the edges of the mylar.

    Mist n shine will do little to clean very dirty playfields. It's got a fair amount of water in it so I wouldnt even use it on non clearcoated playfields.

    It's more of a light wipe down solution.

    Naptha is your friend. Mylar is immune to it

    Goo gone cleans, but might lift the mylar edges.
    The orange oil gets in and slowly releases it.

    So I would avoid that.

    Some guys power buff old mylar with novus3 then 2 then mirror glaze. but you have to be super careful and go really slow.

    Treasure cove has a handy kit. Its pricey, but handy. It will buff off mylar.

    It's easy to burn through mylar with power tools.

    Working on old beat up playfields always has its risks.

    #1689 5 months ago

    After putting naptha on paper towels is it safe to just throw in the garbage bin?

    And where do you store you naptha container?

    #1690 5 months ago
    Quoted from WizardsCastle:

    After putting naptha on paper towels is it safe to just throw in the garbage bin?
    And where do you store you naptha container?

    Yes it's safe to throw paper towels away in the bin, it evaporates really fast. Rags should be stored in a metal bin rated for paint, oil or gasoline.

    Take some care and dont smoke around it.

    Naptha is safe to store in it's original container pretty much anywhere. Its fairly inexpensive at home depot or lowes by the quart as V&P Naptha.

    I have a gallon in my garage and a squirt bottle of Ronson Lighter Fuid in my pinball tool bag.

    Smaller easier to store quantities as sold as Ronson Lighter Fluid in the yellow plastic squirt bottles at Walmart, not the butane aerosol.

    It's also sold as Coleman stove fuel or white gas.

    -3
    #1691 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    Naptha usually wont remove mylar but it will clean it pretty good unless dirt is ground into the plastic. It dries fast so it wont lift the edges of the mylar.
    Naptha is your friend. Mylar is immune to it .

    But naphtha takes off the clear coat. So if you use it you have to put a new coat of clear, waxing is not sufficient....correct?

    #1692 5 months ago
    Quoted from mark532011:

    But naphtha takes off the clear coat. So if you use it you have to put a new coat of clear, waxing is not sufficient....correct?

    It will not take off your clearcoat.

    #1693 5 months ago
    Quoted from mark532011:

    But naphtha takes off the clear coat. So if you use it you have to put a new coat of clear, waxing is not sufficient....correct?

    Naptha will not remove clearcoat.

    Automotive clearcoat is one of the most durable finishes known.

    It rivals powdercoat.

    Its impervious to pretty much anything you apply to it other than urethane reducer.

    Naptha is smelly but pretty mild.
    However it's an awsome cleaner, dewaxer and degreaser.

    Clearcoated playfields dull up after awhile.

    Rolling dented, pitted and scratched heavy steel balls on clearcoat at high speeds is not really recommended.

    Change balls frequently

    Waxing gives you a renewable surface to extend the life of of the clearcoat almost indefinitely.

    Plastic ramps also benefit from waxing.

    Wax reduces ball tracking and dulling on ramps.

    Wax will also extend the life of your plastic ramps.

    #1694 5 months ago
    Quoted from mark532011:

    But naphtha takes off the clear coat. So if you use it you have to put a new coat of clear, waxing is not sufficient....correct?

    Clarifying, Naptha will remove the clear finish off an old pinball machine. A modern clear coat is impervious to Naptha.

    #1695 5 months ago
    Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

    Clarifying, Naptha will remove the clear finish off an old pinball machine. A modern clear coat is impervious to Naptha.

    If you see Naptha removing a clear finish, it probably 50 coats of wax that is being removed.

    Naptha will not remove the old shellac or varnish on older playfields.
    Naptha will not dissolve your plastics.
    Naptha is an excellent degreaser for machine parts
    Naptha removes wax.

    Naptha has little affect on dried varnish and shellac.

    Naptha dries so fast its safe to use even on old planking playfields just dont go crazy with it. Used properly it wont even raise the grain on bare wood.

    Woodworkers use naptha and xylene to remove pencil marks and glue fingerprints on bare wood before applying the finish because it doesnt raise the grain,

    The rule of thumb is to use as little as possible to get the job done.
    Excessive use of fluids of any type on and old playfield can raise the grain and leech into the old plywood causing more planking.
    The fluids will get into the areas missing varnish and soak into the wood a little.

    So dont dump it on by the gallon or quart, dont soak the playfield in it.

    Applied to a rag or surface that is wiped up quickly is very safe.

    Stupidly expensive playfield cleaning solutions are primarily VM&P Naptha, sold cheaply in big box stores with a little wax in it.

    It is widely used as a cleaner on all types of woodwork, primarily for removing hardened coats of old wax.

    Rubbing alcohol will dissolve the surface of older playfields though.

    This is why ME and rubbing alcohol works to restore the finish on older games, Alcohol dissolves the surface to expose the ink. This technique yields great results but is very dangerous. Clearcoating is mandatory after varnish removal.

    Shellac is actually made from dissolving shellac beetle flakes into rubbing alcohol.

    Use rubbing alcohol with great care on older games.

    https://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/a_primer_on_solvents/

    #1696 5 months ago

    Well said, sir!

    I hereby nominate pinballinreno as Vid2.0 with all rights, privileges and burdens assigned thereto!

    #1697 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinheadpierre:

    Well said, sir!
    I hereby nominate pinballinreno as Vid2.0 with all rights, privileges and burdens assigned thereto!

    Yea. He's pretty incredible...

    #1698 5 months ago

    Wax ramps - check!

    Wax wireforms too?

    #1699 5 months ago
    Quoted from joseph5185:

    Wax ramps - check!
    Wax wireforms too?

    yes

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