Quoted from Lermods:I think the main point against cleaner wax is that they contain silicone. Silicone is deadly if you ever need to recoat your playfield, you'll have fish eye everywhere.
http://www.autodetailingsolutions.com/meguiars-msds-sheets.htm
The data sheet on Meguiar's A12 Cleaner Wax does not contain the term silicone.
Quoted from EMsInKC:Just FYI, pure carnauba is like a rock. So they have to use something, usually petroleum distillates, to soften it.
...and...?
What do you think Naptha is?
Quoted from vid1900:Sure, polish out a scratch here and there. Clean up a ball trail in the inlanes or on a translucent ramp; but using it for everyday cleaning? Too much work and certainly unnecessary.
I don't think we're on the same page here. First, Novus 2 is nothing like Gojo.. the abrasives are much milder. I also don't use it for "everyday" cleaning.. I clean the playfield every hundred or so games, when you start to see ball trails and the game gets slower. "Too much work" is all of 5 minutes wiping down accessible areas, letting it dry up then wiping off the residue. I use it like you apparently use Novus 1. Problem with N1 is that it's much more watery... I'd rather have N2's mild polishing characteristics than use a watery cleaner all the time.
The proof is in the pudding though, Vid. Here's my AFM playfield, cleaned exclusively with Novus 2 since I bought it almost 16 years ago. Aside from the ubiquitous dimpling, it's as smooth as you could ever want from a factory clearcoat. This game's been to three Expos during that time and has had thousands and thousands of plays over the years. No problems whatsoever, and its the fastest AFM I've ever played.
Quoted from cody_chunn:...and...?
What do you think Naptha is?
[Comment Removed]
The point is, lots of people saying don't use stuff with petroleum distillates etc in it.
Quoted from EMsInKC:[Comment Removed]
The point is, lots of people saying don't use stuff with petroleum distillates etc in it.
Hah, OK. Make it personal...whatever.
Vid made a point to recommend Naptha, which is a petroleum distillate, and I imagine in much higher percentage than what's found in paste wax. So there are mixed signals here to say the least.
Are petroleum distillates bad or not? Aren't we here to discuss things like this without bringing people's rectums into the conversation? 
Vid- So i see the wax you recommend, I see that you say a good vacuuming should clean up the field..... what I didn't see or missed is your recommendation for a Mild cleaner if the vacuuming doesn't cut it......
someone asked about the cp-100... didn't see a response.....
Thanks for all your info this is really helping out a newbie!!
Quoted from cody_chunn:Hah, OK. Make it personal...whatever.
Vid made a point to recommend Naptha, which is a petroleum distillate, and I imagine in much higher percentage than what's found in paste wax. So there are mixed signals here to say the least.
Are petroleum distillates bad or not? Aren't we here to discuss things like this without bringing people's rectums into the conversation?
Rectum.... almost killed'em.... 
Quoted from sparechange1974:Vid,
This is going to be a great thread! The lines made by the pinballs down in the in and out-lanes and orbit drive me nuts. I always worry that If I don't stay after them, they will end up being permanent. When should I start worrying about these lines...I've been using an air compressor to blow off the play field and vacuum along with keeping new pinballs in the machines when ever they seem nicked, but they I keep getting these lines. I've been using Novus 2 to hand wipe them out and Novus 3 when Novus 2 didn't work, then Blitz wax. Pins are 2006 POTC and 2007 spiderman 2013 Metallica
Am I being a little to obsessive about the lines?
Is this the right way to go about getting rid of these lines?
Last, I've been working around cars and body shops for along time, I've got a spiderman that looks to have just a ton of light clear coat scratches(only visible in bright light) that won't come out with Novus 2 or Novus 3 rubbing by hand. Typically on a car, we use the wool pad, then foam and keep working up to the final wax(wetsanding if necessary). I am completely comfortable buffing a very expensive metal car, but very scared to use a buffer on a pinball. Is there a Technic you would try to get rid of some of this haziness or clear coat scratching that does not involve a buffer.
FYI, In case anyone is interested another pinsider turned me on to this mini vac attachment. $10.00 on Amazon and it goes on most vacuums.
1798698_10201421408192797_1902920863_n.jpg
Do you have a link to that vacuum set?
Thanks,
RussM
Quoted from cody_chunn:Are petroleum distillates bad or not? Aren't we here to discuss things like this without bringing people's rectums into the conversation?
The term is too broad. The point of the PD's in waxes is they are used as OILS - to slick things up or products that are too harsh or leave residues. Naptha is refined to the point of being a solvent that leaves no residual.. and hence it's value as a cleaner.
So yes, you 'caught him' in that Petroleum distillates is too broad of a term to throw around because it can include both good and bad compounds.
All waxes are mixed to make them workable.. the point is to avoid products that leave undesirable residuals or pose harm to the playfield parts or PF itself.
Quoted from flynnibus:The term is too broad. The point of the PD's in waxes is they are used as OILS - to slick things up or products that are too harsh or leave residues. Naptha is refined to the point of being a solvent that leaves no residual.. and hence it's value as a cleaner.
So yes, you 'caught him' in that Petroleum distillates is too broad of a term to throw around because it can include both good and bad compounds.
All waxes are mixed to make them workable.. the point is to avoid products that leave undesirable residuals or pose harm to the playfield parts or PF itself.
I guess I fail to see a big distinction here in regards to Meguiar's Cleaner Wax. And perhaps in the larger picture of PDs (not silicone) in any product being "bad" while Naptha is "good".
I can certainly see it's benefits vs alcohol with regards to melting old top coats, but not vs products that contain PDs.
I mean, a cleaner wax isn't harsh nor does it leave residuals other than protection that I can tell...*shrug*
I have a playfield overlay on my EBDLE. What is recommended to clean/wax that? I haven't really used anything yet, as the game is still pretty fast and clean from when I originally got it around a year ago (500 plays or so).
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:This isn't rocket science, although some try to make it seem like it is.
No doubt of that.
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:This isn't rocket science, although some try to make it seem like it is.
Exactly.
It makes no sense to use a more abrasive cleaner than you need to clean the playfield.
It makes no sense to use a harsher solvent than you need to clean the playfield.
-
Just because you have run the stop sign on your street 1000 times without incident, does not mean your luck will carry you through the next 1000 times.
Quoted from chuckwurt:I have a playfield overlay on my EBDLE. What is recommended to clean/wax that? I haven't really used anything yet, as the game is still pretty fast and clean from when I originally got it around a year ago (500 plays or so).
Is there auto clearcoat over the the overlay?
Is it vinyl or back-printed polyester?
Quoted from Methos:So after 100 games, we are to use Naptha to clean then use wax to polish?
You may not even need the Naphtha.
Naphtha would remove all of the existing wax.
A quick vacuum followed by a waxing may well be all you need.
Always try the least invasive cleaning first.
Quoted from cody_chunn:I guess I fail to see a big distinction here in regards to Meguiar's Cleaner Wax.
The Meguiar's company says that the Cleaner Wax contains ABRASIVES and contains STRONGER SOLVENTS compared to the normal Meguiar's Carnauba Wax.
That's the difference.
-
Y/N?: Do you need more cleaning abrasives when you wax your playfield? Did you not already clean your playfield before waxing?
Y/N?: Do you need stronger solvents when you wax your playfield? What insoluble dirt were you unable to remove with your normal cleaning?
Remember our goal: We want to use the LEAST invasive routine that will give us a clean and waxed playfield.
Quoted from cody_chunn:I guess I fail to see a big distinction here in regards to Meguiar's Cleaner Wax. And perhaps in the larger picture of PDs (not silicone) in any product being "bad" while Naptha is "good".
Maybe this keeps it simpler... don't use a cleaner wax if you are just looking for a wax. The 'cleaner waxes' are just shortcuts that give you the worst of both worlds.
1) when you are cleaning.. you want to to remove all the material that your cleaning liberated. So don't mix your cleaning and sealing steps together.
2) when you are sealing/protecting... you don't want any abrasives because they serve no purpose but to damage things. So, don't put cleaners in your sealer.
3) The cleaner waxes are trying to let you remove everything while just leaving a residual behind... vs actually using a paste wax which is designed to leave the full product behind minus what you buff off
This doesn't even get into the argument about what solvents the cleaner wax is using vs a straight wax. But the reason these products exist is because they are trying to cut corners and make the process simpler.. and in doing so they bring along all kinds of baggage you don't need.
Quoted from cody_chunn:I mean, a cleaner wax isn't harsh nor does it leave residuals other than protection that I can tell...*shrug*
It is by definition harsher.. else the 'cleaning' part in its name is fake. While the product may not be noticably grittier depending on what you are using.. it has other products in it that you just don't need to be mixing in here.
How many of you wax your car with your car soap?
The proper method is to clean, then polish, then seal. 'cleaner waxes' try to cheat 2 or all three of those steps. Other 'one step' products try to cheat the last two steps by leaving residue to create a shine and repeal dirt.
Least we all forget... we are not waxing our games to make them shiney.. so forget all products designed to just leave a residue.. we wax our games to create a protective, slick barrier.
Quoted from vid1900:Believe me, there are guys who apply a coat of wax, then heat it with a hair dryer, then apply another coat, heat that one up.
.......I seem to remember a Tim Arnold seminar at PinExpo a long time ago where he would clean his playfields with Turtle Wax, then apply his paste wax, and use a hair dryer to heat the wax up so it would 'drop' into the micro grooves......what was that like 15 years or more ago? Same seminar he 'drank' Novus to show how non-toxic it was...
Does anyone have any thoughts about plain old Johnson's Paste Wax? It's been around forever and seems very durable.
Mac
Quoted from WilliamsFan:Same seminar he 'drank' Novus to show how non-toxic it was...
Is it necessary to drink my own urine? Of course not, but it's sterile, and I like the taste.
Vid - Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge & experience. I have followed your other guides and found them to be invaluable.
Regarding playfield cleaning, I have always used a cleaner wax product which explains the short term benefits. Thanks also for posting the warnings about silicone, alcohol, and water based products.
Blitz is now on order and should arrive early next week. I will also be trying Naptha for deep cleaning.
Keep the information coming!
Quoted from RussMyers:Do you have a link to that vacuum set?
Thanks,
RussM
Here you go!
http://www.amazon.com/Micro-Vacuum-Attachment-Kit-Piece/dp/B000BSJCLY/ref=sr_1_3/177-5644204-9755325
Quoted from MarcelG:vid what do you say about the hot wax treatment (lay down wax, melt/spread around with heat source) ?
This needs to be called the Brazilian from here on out 
Quoted from lb1:Is putting two coats of wax any use at all?
I was wondering this too. Then I waxed my playfield once, played it for 100 games, then waxed again but did 3 coats. Definitely more slick and faster. Plus it seemed to take longer before my game slowed down and needed to be waxed again.
Quoted from lb1:Is putting two coats of wax any use at all?
Can the same wax also be applied to protect the cabinet? Particularly on some brand new decals, and particularly around the flipper buttons?
Applying 2 light coats of Carnauba is better than 1 thick coat. Putting the wax on thick makes it harder to remove. With 2 thin coats applied in different directions will assure all areas are covered completely.
As for Cabinets with Decals I would not put wax on the decals. Just leave them, a reaction with the solvents in the wax and the decals can or will cause problems.
Quoted from MarcelG:vid what do you say about the hot wax treatment (lay down wax, melt/spread around with heat source) ?
If you had a very porous playfield with lots of micro cracking in the topcoat, it could be a fun way to spend the afternoon.
If it's an old EM with lots of sunken inserts, you could fix those at the same time.
2001 stern. Needs a good cleaning.
I've read the posts in this thread several times. In not comfortable using Naptha in my basement as the ventilation is somewhat poor. Am I supposed to use Novus 1 or not? Too much water? Is there a less harsh alcohol based solvent I could use?
Quoted from Mocean:2001 stern. Needs a good cleaning.
I've read the posts in this thread several times. In not comfortable using Naptha in my basement as the ventilation is somewhat poor. Am I supposed to use Novus 1 or not? Too much water? Is there a less harsh alcohol based solvent I could use?
The dirt might just vacuum up or wipe away with a rag
If not then dampen a soft rag with Naphtha and wipe up all the crud.
Naphtha is fine indoors, less toxic than all the bathroom cleaners you use weekly in the house.
Quoted from lb1:Is putting two coats of wax any use at all?
Yes, simply in the sense that you can add another layer without stripping off the lower.. giving you essentially a thicker protection layer. But don't bother much more than 2... simply because you'll be removing more than adding. It won't keep layering effectively.
Now the polymar "waxes" out now for clearcoats bind much stronger to themselves and can be layered more if desired.
Quoted from lb1:Can the same wax also be applied to protect the cabinet? Particularly on some brand new decals, and particularly around the flipper buttons?
It's common for the painted cabinets to wax them to keep them from drying out and give some protection. I guess in theory you could coat a decal'd cabinet, but it would not be my recommendation as it's likely to make more of a future mess. For flipper wear protection, instead look at the remove-able mylar patches.. or switching to the 'lolipop' siderails for more modern games.
Quoted from vid1900:If the dirt might just vacuum up or wipe away with a rag
If not and the clearcoat is completely intact (no visible paint wear), then you could dampen a soft rag with Novus or Simple Green and wipe up all the crud.
The machine in question is a neglected home game, played for years with original rubbers cracking and frayed so the rubber is smashed into the playfield.
I tried to wipe it with a dry rag but I was afraid of working it in further.
I tried some novus 1 in some inconspicuous spots. I assume the clearcoat is completely intact but it's obviously hard to tell with black crud over top.
What's the safest bet here, just in case some crud is covering up a ding in the paint? It's not novus 1, I assume. I just don't want to plank this thing!
Thank you!
Quoted from lb1:Particularly on some brand new decals, and particularly around the flipper buttons?
Here would be an example where the stronger solvents and abrasives in Cleaner Wax could really create a disaster with decals.
Honestly, I'd worry that the ink might dissolve from the solvents even in normal wax.
Laminated decals like the $500 JJP upgrade would probably be OK, as the ink is safely behind a layer of glossy polyester.
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I have waxed painted cabinets many times and it looks great.
Quoted from Mocean:What's the safest bet here, just in case some crud is covering up a ding in the paint? It's not novus 1, I assume. I just don't want to plank this thing!
Relax, get some bright worklights over the playfield , and don't overthink it.
Get rid of the old rubber - this will make a big mess, so get it over with.
Vacuum first - see how much crud goes away. Use brush attachment and crevasse attachment.
Wipe with soft dry cloth - is the remaining dirt glued on, or did it wipe away?
Wipe with soft cloth moistened with Naphtha to remove any stuck on dirt (if needed) - are you now down to clean playfield?
Vacuum again - take note of any scratches and ball trails.
Use Novus2 - with a soft cloth (old cotton t-shirt is great), polish out any scratches. Polish out the ball trails in the inlanes. Keep the cloth rotated to clean sections, and keep it moist with the Novus2.
Vacuum again - check your work. Ignore tiny scratches you won't see with the glass on.
Wax - Using the included applicator or a clean very slightly dampened with 1 drop of water cloth, rub the wax into the playfield using small circles. If your applicator is dirty from your car, don't even think of using it! Do the ramps, do the metal ball guides, the wire guides, undecaled target faces - every place the ball touches. Don't use too much wax! If using Blitz, use 1/4 of what you would use of Turtle Wax.
Wait 20 minutes - Drag you finger across, if it cleanly removes the wax film, it's ready. If it's slightly tacky, give it another 10 minutes.
Wipe - wipe off the wax film with soft cloth. If you are using good wax, there won't be any white wax chips or flakes at all. Keep the cloth turned to fresh areas.
Vacuum again - if you used cheaper wax, you may need this final vacuum to pick up the wax dust.
Drop in new balls - for $5, why not?
Play.
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