(Topic ID: 137689)

Cleaning and Waxing Pinball Machines - Vid's Guide


By vid1900

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 19 days ago by ovfdfireman
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    There are 1811 posts in this topic. You are on page 23 of 37.
    #1101 2 years ago

    I would put it on as soon as I took the game out of the box.

    #1102 2 years ago

    Thanks Coyote

    #1103 2 years ago
    Quoted from Oaklandasfan1969:

    Does anyone know whether you are supposed to put Wax on a new out of box machine or does it not matter until your first cleaning?

    You can.. it's not a bad practice.. as ultimately its just protecting the PF under it. But you don't "have to" - you won't kill it.

    #1104 2 years ago
    Quoted from Oaklandasfan1969:

    Does anyone know whether you are supposed to put Wax on a new out of box machine or does it not matter until your first cleaning?

    Always wax before you run any balls through it.

    #1105 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    You can.. it's not a bad practice.. as ultimately its just protecting the PF under it. But you don't "have to" - you won't kill it.

    No, but ball trails will develop much more quickly.

    #1106 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    You can.. it's not a bad practice.. as ultimately its just protecting the PF under it. But you don't "have to" - you won't kill it.

    I can't hold myself back from playing those first few games, but when I bought NIB, I try to wax at least within the first couple of weeks. It really just depends upon how anal you are.

    #1107 2 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    No, but ball trails will develop much more quickly.

    That's from the crappy stock black rubbers imo. Single best thing I did to prevent ball trails was replace them.

    #1108 2 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    No, but ball trails will develop much more quickly.

    Meh. It's the dirt generation that dictates that. On modern stuff, keep the dirt in check and it will take tons of plays to get any trails that don't just wipe right back off. We're talking tiny upon tiny. You just spent 5000-10000 dollars... you can enjoy the game and not do any harm.

    -1
    #1109 2 years ago

    Any body ever used this or know anyone that has?

    https://pu-parts.com/pinball-surface-cleaner

    #1110 2 years ago
    Quoted from J85M:

    Any body ever used this or know anyone that has?
    https://pu-parts.com/pinball-surface-cleaner

    WOW, I hope it cleans as good as Pledge...

    -1
    #1111 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    WOW, I hope it cleans as good as Pledge...

    I usually use Pledge or Mr Sheen, but like to try new things especially if they are better, someone must have used this stuff?

    #1112 2 years ago

    I think it is stated clearly to use only Nafta to clean and pure carnauba wax like One Grand for waxing. You do not need more.

    #1113 2 years ago
    Quoted from PeterG:

    I think it is stated clearly to use only Nafta to clean and pure carnauba wax like One Grand for waxing. You do not need more.

    Maybe I've missed it in this thread but I can't find Nafta online other than a thinner product, which doesn't sound right.

    I use one grand but was curious if anyone had used that stuff from pinball universe, didn't realise we couldn't ask questions on Pinside anymore

    #1114 2 years ago
    Quoted from J85M:

    Maybe I've missed it in this thread but I can't find Nafta online other than a thinner product, which doesn't sound right.

    Naphtha is the stuff you refill a cigarette lighter with, they might not ship it through the mail.

    Go to any motor store and ask for "panel wipe" (the stuff you wipe a car with before painting).

    Quoted from J85M:

    I use one grand but was curious if anyone had used that stuff from pinball universe, didn't realise we couldn't ask questions on Pinside anymore

    Any liquid "wax" will contain silicones, and that is bad.

    Naphtha is cheap in the UK (£9.99 for 4L), so clean with that, then use real One Grand PASTE wax to protect.

    #1115 2 years ago

    I have the Coleman fuel from any camp store here in Europe. Works great. And is also cheap. 6€

    #1116 2 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Show me some dirt on a playfield that requires hand cleaner to remove it.

    Should I try hand cleaner on this playfield?

    2017_08_25_jungle_king_2_10 (resized).jpg

    2017_08_25_jungle_king_2_12 (resized).jpg

    2017_08_25_jungle_king_2_11 (resized).jpg

    #1117 2 years ago
    Quoted from footer:

    Should I try hand cleaner on this playfield?

    I would not, lol

    #1118 2 years ago

    Do they make Blitz Wax anymore? I looked up the One Grand site to order some but it looks like both the 800 number doesn't reach anyone and the local 805 numbers have both been disconnected. I emailed them at their email address on their site and it bounced back... Did they close up shop?

    #1119 2 years ago

    Blitz had a fire, but it's back in stock at a number of dealers.

    http://www.ccswholesale.com/onegrandblitzcarnaubawax-15ozcan.aspx

    #1120 2 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Blitz had a fire, but it's back in stock at a number of dealers.
    http://www.ccswholesale.com/onegrandblitzcarnaubawax-15ozcan.aspx

    That link is to their wholesale site- I just placed an order there, and got a call back from them asking for more info + charging me shipping. He asked that, unless you're in the trade, you make orders from their retail site-

    http://store.carcareonline.com/onegrandblitzcarnaubawax-15ozcan.aspx

    #1121 2 years ago

    Just reread the guides.

    Why naptha? You state a bunch of reasons for why naptha and not other stuff, but all of those reasons exist for naptha as well.

    I'm not stating this from an "I've tried this a bunch" standpoint, because I haven't, which is why I am reading the guide so I can clean/wax, but just from an objective observation. Naptha isn't a chemical, but rather a loose generalization of a mixture of chemicals of unknown and highly variable composition. It's a petroleum distillate, so every post that states "don't use petroleum distillates" and "because that's a petroleum distillate" makes no sense, even less so when you consider that the composition of naphtha contains an unknown quantity of very bad chemicals which are toxic and carcinogenic instead of any high purity chemical. This makes even less sense when you add in the fact that it's an actual fuel that you're working with. This makes even less sense when you consider that part of the chemical composition of the naphtha chemical mixture you are using is the ACTUAL chemical which is fulfilling the intended purpose in the intended manner you desire which you could then just buy in a distilled form. Idk. Actually making all these various chemicals IRL for a living makes the whole "naphtha" argument make no logical sense. As a starting point for "hey this stuff works"? Yeah. But after that the logic with "naphtha" seems to go out the window.

    I searched Acetone in the thread after reading through the guides and saw the aforementioned cases of inconsistent logic, but something like acetone makes more sense.

    #1122 2 years ago

    We use Naphtha (or more specifically, Varnish Makers & Painters Naphtha ) to de-wax a playfield because Naphtha has properties that other solvents don't have.

    Naphtha DOES NOT dissolve or cloud Lacquer, Urethane or 2PAC.

    Naphtha DOES NOT cloud playfield plastics or ramps.

    Naphtha DOES NOT raise the grain of bare wood.

    Naphtha DOES NOT leave a trace of ANY petroleum behind once it evaporates.

    I can't think of any other common solvent that has all the above properties, can you?

    -

    Acetone ruins Lacquer and clouds most plastics.

    Alcohol ruins Lacquer and raises the grain of wood.

    Lacquer Thinner clouds Urethane 2PAC, most plastics and melts Lacquer.

    Methyl Ethel Keytone eats everything it touches, including epoxy finishes.

    -

    So out of any common solvent we can buy at Woodcraft, Home Depot or the auto paint store, VM&P Naphtha is our choice.

    Auto refinishers, guitar repair shops and LSD labs all depend on it every day.

    #1123 2 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    We use Naphtha (or more specifically, Varnish Makers & Painters Naphtha ) to de-wax a playfield because Naphtha has properties that other solvents don't have.
    Naphtha DOES NOT dissolve or cloud Lacquer, Urethane or 2PAC.
    Naphtha DOES NOT cloud playfield plastics or ramps.
    Naphtha DOES NOT raise the grain of bare wood.
    Naphtha DOES NOT leave a trace of ANY petroleum behind once it evaporates.
    I can't think of any other common solvent that has all the above properties, can you?
    -
    Acetone ruins Lacquer and clouds most plastics.
    Alcohol ruins Lacquer and raises the grain of wood.
    Lacquer Thinner clouds Urethane 2PAC, most plastics and melts Lacquer.
    Methyl Ethel Keytone eats everything it touches, including epoxy finishes.
    -
    So out of any common solvent we can buy at Woodcraft, Home Depot or the auto paint store, VM&P Naphtha is our choice.
    Auto refinishers, guitar repair shops and LSD labs all depend on it every day.

    https://s26.postimg.org/hem3vv1eh/wp_ss_20170902_0002.png

    You're primarily using it, because it's a fast evaporating liquid hydrocarbon, which is why some stated they use lighter fluid, which is butane. In this case, its either the toluene or the smxylene which you like. Naphtha, regardless of who uses it, contains benzene, which is a legit bad chemical for causing cancer, similar to asbestos and it's effects on the lungs. In the oil and gas and chemicals industries, benzene is a chemical which has giant warning signs all over the place and has lots of testing done to make sure it isn't going to the environment.

    That up there ^ should say toluene and xylene. On my phone and wont let me go back and edit.

    Found this: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/A_Primer_on_Solvents
    I'd take the suitable method that doesn't include benzene, which would be buying xylene and then diluting with toluene, if you want it to be faster drying. Depending on the solution, I'd probably put it in a spray bottle, spray the field, then wipe dry.

    #1124 2 years ago

    Xylene and Toluene are excellent solvents, but they can cloud water based finishes, like if someone touched up a shooter lane or saucer with Varathane in the past.

    Don't even think of bringing Xylene near a modern finish acoustic guitar like a Seagull

    There are a zillion solvents on the shelf at HD, but the least risky one for cleaning what you might likely encounter on a pinball (or guitar) is Naphtha.

    #1125 2 years ago

    Insert popcorn gif here

    #1126 2 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    Insert popcorn gif here

    It's not even all that interesting.

    Naphtha is cheap ($14 a gallon), locally available (even people in Cali can just walk into Woodcraft), and does not dissolve or soften any pinball playfield coating I've ever encountered.

    Every professional pinball restorer uses it, every guitar and violin luither uses it, and every auto paint shop uses it.

    The reason that everybody uses it, is that it does not f anything up (and probably because it's cheap).

    Just like cleaning your bathroom shower, put some gloves on, open the windows (or put on your chem mask), and clean away.....

    #1127 2 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Xylene and Toluene are excellent solvents, but they can cloud water based finishes, like if someone touched up a shooter lane or saucer with Varathane in the past.
    Don't even think of bringing Xylene near a modern finish acoustic guitar like a Seagull
    There are a zillion solvents on the shelf at HD, but the least risky one for cleaning what you might likely encounter on a pinball (or guitar) is Naphtha.

    I think you're missing the point, though... Naphtha IS Xylene and Toluene. The image I provided shows the composition of Naphtha. Mostly xylene, toluene, pentane, hexane, cyclohexane, heptane.

    #1128 2 years ago
    Quoted from Jeremy8419:

    I think you're missing the point, though... Naphtha IS Xylene and Toluene. The image I provided shows the composition of Naphtha. Mostly xylene, toluene, pentane, hexane, cyclohexane, heptane.

    I must be missing your point.

    All anyone on this thread is worried about is just that the product will remove wax and is safe for finishes commonly found in pinball machines.

    All anyone is worried about in a guitar shop is that it's safe for all guitar finishes.

    All anyone is worried about when making LSD is that it evaporates completely.

    All anyone is worried about when painting a car is that it de-waxes and does not leave any oils behind.

    If you feel you need to use pure Toluene or Hexane on your pinball machine because Naphtha is not strong enough, I suggest you test a few inconspicuous areas and make sure you don't get any softening of the top coat. Remember that 4 different companies may have made the same playfield for Williams in a single year. All may have some chemical variations in their finishes.

    If you are worried about toxic ingredients in a certain brand of Naphtha, most brands I have in the shop don't even break it down.

    For instance, the Kleen Strip VM&P Naphtha that everyone buys at HD and Woodcraft, says on the can it's 95-100% "Petroleum Ether" with a boiling point of 242*F.

    Sunnyside VM&P Naphtha that they sell at AutoMart says it contains 99% Extra Light Aliphatic Naphtha.

    -1
    #1129 2 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    I must be missing your point.
    All anyone on this thread is worried about is just that the product will remove wax and is safe for finishes commonly found in pinball machines.
    All anyone is worried about in a guitar shop is that it's safe for all guitar finishes.
    All anyone is worried about when making LSD is that it evaporates completely.
    All anyone is worried about when painting a car is that it de-waxes and does not leave any oils behind.
    If you feel you need to use pure Toluene or Hexane on your pinball machine because Naphtha is not strong enough, I suggest you test a few inconspicuous areas and make sure you don't get any softening of the top coat. Remember that 4 different companies may have made the same playfield for Williams in a single year. All may have some chemical variations in their finishes.
    If you are worried about toxic ingredients in a certain brand of Naphtha, most brands I have in the shop don't even break it down.
    For instance, the Kleen Strip VM&P Naphtha that everyone buys at HD and Woodcraft, says on the can it's 95-100% "Petroleum Ether" with a boiling point of 242*F.
    Sunnyside VM&P Naphtha that they sell at AutoMart says it contains 99% Extra Light Aliphatic Naphtha.

    Naphtha has benzene in it. Benzene bad. Bad bad.

    #1130 2 years ago

    What's bad bad bad is your need to droll on and on about it.
    Simply go make your own thread and guide that's Naphtha free.

    #1131 2 years ago

    VM&P Naphtha
    CAS # 64742-89-8

    Composition:
    33% Paraffins
    67% Napthenes (cycloparaffins)
    0.2% Aromatics
    < 0.0002% Benzene

    That doesn't seem like a lot of Benzene does it?

    -1
    #1132 2 years ago
    Quoted from klr650:

    VM&P Naphtha
    CAS # 64742-89-8
    Composition:
    33% Paraffins
    67% Napthenes (cycloparaffins)
    0.2% Aromatics
    < 0.0002% Benzene
    That doesn't seem like a lot of Benzene does it?

    Nope.

    Still doesn't make the rest of the argument make sense, though, because that's even more of the other stuff.

    Minus benzene, you're left with the other stuff.

    So, what is it that is the "good stuff"?

    #1133 2 years ago

    I used to be in a band called the cycloparaffins, but we spelled it Psychoparaffins .

    We tore it up.

    #1134 2 years ago
    Quoted from klr650:

    VM&P Naphtha
    CAS # 64742-89-8
    Composition:
    33% Paraffins
    67% Napthenes (cycloparaffins)
    0.2% Aromatics
    < 0.0002% Benzene
    That doesn't seem like a lot of Benzene does it?

    Quoted from Jeremy8419:

    So, what is it that is the "good stuff"?

    For me, it's probably the Aromatics!!

    #1135 2 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    I used to be in a band called the cycloparaffins, but we spelled it Psychoparaffins .
    We tore it up.

    #1136 2 years ago

    I'll stick with Naphtha for my classics. Been using it for years.

    #1137 2 years ago

    I was going easy... That brand is 30% xylene, 30% toluene, 30% acetone. Case dismissed.

    #1138 2 years ago

    Hell in the old days we used to throw that straight benzene around right and left, slop it all over our hands, it was everywhere. Not sure why I'm not dead yet actually.

    #1139 2 years ago
    Quoted from xsvtoys:

    Hell in the old days we used to throw that straight benzene around right and left, slop it all over our hands, it was everywhere. Not sure why I'm not dead yet actually.

    Yeah, I was gonna mention that lmao.

    #1140 2 years ago
    Quoted from xsvtoys:

    Hell in the old days we used to throw that straight benzene around right and left, slop it all over our hands, it was everywhere. Not sure why I'm not dead yet actually.

    I worked in a screen printing department in the late 90's, used to wash the ink off the screens, and then wash my hands, with benzene, xylene, xylol, lacquer thinner, anything we had around. I'm a ticking cancer time bomb.

    #1141 2 years ago
    Quoted from jibmums:

    I worked in a screen printing department in the late 90's, used to wash the ink off the screens, and then wash my hands, with benzene, xylene, xylol, lacquer thinner, anything we had around. I'm a ticking cancer time bomb.

    Don't forget the herpes!

    3 weeks later
    #1142 2 years ago

    Here's a photo that I hope can show what Naphtha and Novus 2 can do for an EM Playfield:

    On the left of the center buttons-
    Cleaned with Naphtha and Micro Cloth
    Then cleaned with Novus 2 and Micro Cloth

    On the right-
    Just Naphtha and Micro Cloth

    No wax yet on either side

    You can tell on this 1965 Ski Club the original Plasti Kote is still there

    IMG_0953 (resized).JPG
    IMG_0954 (resized).JPG

    1 week later
    #1143 2 years ago

    I just see the reflection of your window shining on the playfield.

    #1144 2 years ago
    Quoted from Dee-Bow:

    I just see the reflection of your window shining on the playfield.

    I think that's Taylor Swift's new song

    #1145 2 years ago

    Vid,
    I have a Porter cable 7424 & pads that came with kit, Blitz wax.
    Looking for direction on getting the best results on a new CPR playfield.
    Do you apply Blitz by hand let it dry to a haze, then buff or do you recommend using certain pads that com with kit.
    In past have used treasure cove product.
    Thanks

    #1146 2 years ago

    Also do you recommend multiple coats and so how long in between coats?

    #1147 2 years ago
    Quoted from Madmax541:

    Also do you recommend multiple coats and so how long in between coats?

    One coat of wax is all you need

    #1148 2 years ago
    Quoted from Madmax541:

    Vid,
    I have a Porter cable 7424 & pads that came with kit, Blitz wax.
    Looking for direction on getting the best results on a new CPR playfield.
    Do you apply Blitz by hand let it dry to a haze, then buff or do you recommend using certain pads that com with kit.
    In past have used treasure cove product.
    Thanks

    I usually just wax by hand, then wipe off.

    The buffer is good for when you want to use compounds to actually polish the playfield.

    #1149 2 years ago

    Excellent thanks

    #1150 2 years ago

    Newbie question. Why is Naphtha a better choice than isopropyl alcohol?

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