(Topic ID: 137689)

Cleaning and Waxing Pinball Machines - Vid's Guide


By vid1900

3 years ago



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    #51 3 years ago

    THE GREAT PRETENDERS

    ================================================

    There are a bunch of products that claim to be ultimate protection, superior protection, polymer protection, personal protection, or whatever. No matter how fancy the box is, no matter how tough a picture of an anvil protecting your car looks, no matter how deep "guaranteed deepest shine" is, the only thing that is important is how well does the wax protect the playfield from wear.

    One thing we always want to try and avoid is liquid silicone. Silicone soaks into cracks and pores and is almost impossible to remove. If someone ever tries to repair or clearcoat the playfield, it will be filled with fisheye defects. If someone ever sands the playfield, the dust with the silicone can infect the entire shop. Silicone does make the playfield slippery, but the effect is very short lived compared to real wax.

    Another thing we want to avoid is abrasives. "Deep Cleaning" products will contain abrasives. We sure don't want that.

    Let's take a look at products we DON'T want on our playfields - The Great Pretenders:

    -

    CLEANER WAX

    Cleaner Wax contains extra strong solvents and abrasive particles used to try and scrub down to fresh paint on a dull, faded automobile.

    Since we want to wax our games often, this means we are wearing away our playfields every time we wax.

    -

    Silicone Car Wax.jpg

    LIQUID SILICONE

    This is the Used Cat Lot's secret weapon. You put liquid silicone on a rag, wipe in on a porous, weathered paint job, and the car looks shiny with deep color restored; for about 5 days.

    This makes your playfield play crazy fast for a week and then seems to evaporate like it does on a car, leaving you without protection. As a bonus, it's silicone, so if your playfield ever needs repair, it will be fisheye city.

    You can find this as a can of liquid, or as an aerosal spray.

    -

    lemon-pledge-furniture-polish.jpg

    PLEDGE

    If your grandma had a pinball machine, this is what she would use to clean it.

    Pledge is a mixture of Paraffin Wax and silicone. Paraffin is a super soft wax and offers no actual protection. Just like at your grandma's house, Pledge looks wet and shiny for a few days, then it evaporates all by itself (so your grandma is forced to use it every week).

    When you go to look at a game for sale and it smells like chemical lemons, automatically deduct $500 from your offer.

    -

    turtle-wax-carnauba-cleaner-wax-t6a.png

    LIQUID WAX

    All those Liquid Waxes that you simply "wipe on - wipe off" are just silicone, fast evaporating solvents and a tiny suspension of paraffin wax. Leaves a very dusty residue after it dries, so you have lot's of mess to clean up.

    You are paying for a lot of nothing, and getting a ton of silicone to boot.

    -

    P21S-100-Carnauba-Wax .jpg

    "100% Carnauba Wax"

    Carnauba Wax in it's 100% state is harder than concrete.

    There is no way you could spread it on a playfield. It would simply grind off all the paint; same as if you rubbed a brick all over it.

    I called Meguiars, and they said that the highest percentage of Carnauba you could possibly make spreadable with some heat would be 50%, or at room temperature, 35%.

    Anytime you see a wax make crazy statements like "100% Carnauba Wax", they are lying, or at best, being VERY deceptive.

    -

    wild 125.JPG

    WILDCAT

    This mixture of super strong petroleum distillates and silicone, used to be recommend by Bally in their manuals.

    The strong solvents would soften the topcoat allowing the cloth to free ground-in coil dust.

    The strong solvents will cloud your plastic ramps should it accidentally come in contact with them. Don't EVER allow Wildcat to touch anything plastic.

    Never use Wildcat on a modern pinball playfield with automotive clear coat.

    Williams issued a warning bulletin about using cleaners like Wildcat and Millwax in 1989. They said it causes Mylar to lift, but you can't help but think it also was an early warning for the auto clearcoats that were just on the horizon.

    -

    mill_wax.jpg

    MILLWAX

    Similar to Wildcat, Millwax is a liquid silicone and does not actually contain wax. If you have ever seen the white liquid residue that has run down all the playfield holes and onto the backside, Millwax is what it was.

    It tends to fill playfield cracks with white residue, and you should keep it away from many plastics.

    It make the playfield play fast for a few days, and then like other silicone products, it fades away.

    -

    Here is the warning letter from Williams about not using the above products with petroleum distillates any longer:

    Williams Warning.gif

    #52 3 years ago
    Quoted from sparechange1974:

    FYI, In case anyone is interested another pinsider turned me on to this mini vac attachment. $10.00 on Amazon and it goes on most vacuums.
    1798698_10201421408192797_1902920863_n.jpg

    That's Awesome! Ordered.

    I have had such good luck using vid's guides. I'm about to try my first playfield that needs the inserts replaced. For insert art I have been using thermal transfer printing on 1 mil mylar and it's sharp, dense and opaque. And it can print in white! If anyone else wants to try some, PM me with a link to your artwork or look locally for a sign shop that has a Gerber Edge printer.

    http://www.gspinc.com/edge-fx

    For masking I have used Oracal 810s. It's a paint mask specifically made for this type of application. Some films will result in fuzzy edges because the solvents in the paint attack the acrylic adhesive.

    http://www.orafol.com/gp/americas/en/products/search-result-gpam-product-details/items/oramask-810s-stencil-film

    #53 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Anytime you see a wax make crazy statements like "100% Carnauba Wax", they are lying, or at best, being VERY deceptive.

    I think it's more a confusion of how the term is applied than lying. 100% Carnauba wax merely means that Carnauba is the only type of wax that is used in the product. Lots of waxes will include waxes other than Carnauba, such as paraffin wax.

    "The very best carnauba-based car wax is only about 1/3 natural carnauba. It’s probably for the best since the price gets higher and higher as the concentration of carnauba rises. When a product advertises “pure carnauba car wax” or “100% carnauba car wax”, they are referring to the purity of the carnauba that is in the product, not the product as a whole".

    http://www.autogeek.net/qude101.html

    #54 3 years ago
    Quoted from toddkay:

    I'm finishing up my first pin restoration. I went with the overlay approach for the new playfield artwork and did not opt to clear coat it. The surface of the overlay isn't quite as glossy as I had hoped. I put down two layers of Mothers Carnauba Wax on it, "buffing" it out by hand with microfiber rags, and it improved marginally but still not ideal. Would you say then that if I used a mini High Speed buffer with the wax that I would get a more polished result?

    A high speed buffer **might** work, but you need to find a polishing compound rather than a wax that will polish your polyester film.

    Don't let the polyester get warm, keep the buffer moving at all times.

    #55 3 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    The very best carnauba-based car wax is only about 1/3 natural carnauba. It’s probably for the best since the price gets higher and higher as the concentration of carnauba rises.

    It's ironic that the price of the product gets higher as the Carnauba percentage gets higher, because according to the Meguiars tech, the Carnauba component is the LEAST expensive part of the entire product.

    #56 3 years ago
    Quoted from dri:

    I really want to get rid of ball swirls in on early SS games, will naphta and magic eraser be a better alternative than alcohol and magic eraser?

    The Naphtha will be safer than alcohol; but, if the micro-cracks and ball swirls are deep, it will be really hard (if not impossible) to remove the ground in coil dust without removing the topcoat.

    I know no one ever wants to hear this, but often the best long tern advice is to leave the ball swirl alone. Do a reasonable cleaning, accept that some ball swirl will be left behind, wax and enjoy your game. The old, swirled topcoat will continue protecting the paint below.

    Then at some point when you are ready to totally restore the playfield, you can remove the topcoat and shoot a real 2PAC clearcoat on the virgin paint.

    #57 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    It's ironic that the price of the product gets higher as the Carnauba percentage gets higher, because according to the Meguiars tech, the Carnauba component is the LEAST expensive part of the entire product.

    I agree. It should have very little if any impact on increasing the price.

    #58 3 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    I agree. It should have very little if any impact on increasing the price.

    The perception of value, perhaps?

    #59 3 years ago
    Quoted from sparechange1974:

    FYI, In case anyone is interested another pinsider turned me on to this mini vac attachment. $10.00 on Amazon and it goes on most vacuums.
    1798698_10201421408192797_1902920863_n.jpg

    Great find. Thanks a lot.

    #60 3 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    The perception of value, perhaps?

    Exactly.

    #61 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    So, we can see that Novus does a great job at removing scratches and leaving behind a polished surface - BUT at the cost of removing a lot of material, be that paint or clearcoat.

    Do we want to use Novus every time we clean? NO!

    Respectfully disagree. I've been using Novus 2 exclusively for over 15 years on some of my first WPC games, and haven't had any issues with wear from its use. The playfields are glossy, smooth and look even better now than they did back then. Based on this experience, I think the abrasiveness of Novus 2 is a bit overstated. Once you get to your third pic (polished clearcoat), I don't think there's any additional, appreciable polishing/material removal going on. Sure, maybe it'll wear through in 50 years of cleaning, but it won't be my problem then.. Note that this is on diamondplated playfields in good condition... playfields with worn diamondplate, planking/graining or other imperfections might be damaged by repeated use.

    Now Novus 3... that's another animal. I used it successfully to remove a scratch from a CRT, but haven't found much use in pinball (although it did shine up a set of crappy legs once when I ran out of metal polish)

    #62 3 years ago

    I'm with Vid on the use of Novus 2. If you keep your playfield clean and waxed, what good will Novus 2 do you? You're just unnecessarily using abrasives on your playfield - that's a fact, no matter how little abrasiveness you think it has.

    #63 3 years ago
    Quoted from Deaconblooze:

    I'm with Vid on the use of Novus 2. If you keep your playfield clean and waxed, what good will Novus 2 do you? You're just unnecessarily using abrasives on your playfield

    I clean with the novus. Any cleaner is either going to have water, alcohol, petroleum products, or abrasives (or a combination of some), none of which are great for playfields, but something has to loosen the dirt. From my experience, the abrasives in Novus 2 are very mild when used for basic cleaning (not rubbing hard over and over, or using a high speed polisher). Use what you want on your own games for sure, but Novus works great for me.

    #64 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    I'm not sure people still buy books.
    I'd probably spend a bunch of time writing it and it would be pirated on KAT.cr and alt.binary.ebook in 2 days, like all of Clay's guides, Pinball Arcade, and everything else, lol.

    Kickstarter, include a limited edition $50 T-shirt, people go nuts for that crap.

    #65 3 years ago
    Quoted from DefaultGen:

    Kickstarter, include a limited edition $50 T-shirt, people go nuts for that crap.

    Now you are talkin'.

    Maybe I'll include a bottle of my new fragrance.

    396334-i.jpg

    #66 3 years ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    I clean with the novus. From my experience, the abrasives in Novus 2 are very mild when used for basic cleaning

    So would you wash your hands with GoJo all day long?

    Would you fill your kitchen and bathroom soap dispensers with it?

    The abrasives in it are very mild, it smells nice, and gets your hands VERY clean.

    -

    I just can't imagine a well maintained playfield needing to be "cleaned" regularly with Novus#2.

    How dirty could it get to need to be constantly abraded by Novus?

    Sure, polish out a scratch here and there. Clean up a ball trail in the inlanes or on a translucent ramp; but using it for everyday cleaning? Too much work and certainly unnecessary.

    #67 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    So would you wash your hands with GoJo all day long?

    At work I have no choice. And I will say it is a far superior product than that TKO crap one of my bosses liked. It said it contained plastic scrubbing particles and ripped my hands to shreds. Gojo FTW!

    #68 3 years ago

    Ok,

    Just to clarify:

    1. Simply sweep the machine if it is clean and waxed already.
    2. Use Novus #1 to clean dirt/grime and then wax as needed if no scratches. (Please specify which wax is best - I saw the list of what not to use.)
    3. Use Novus #3 for deep scratches, then Novus #2, then wax.
    4. Use Novus #2 for light scratches or ball trails then wax.

    I understand the idea here. I am a car/aircraft dealer and we only grind on the paint if it needs it. Some cars need wet sanded, then polished, waxed, everything. Some just need washed. The least amount of abrasion is the best for longevity of the clear coat. Same goes for windows in airplanes. If they are dirty you simply use non-Ammonia "Spray Away" cleaner for $1.50 a can. If they have small scratches you use Novus #2 and then cleaner. If they are really bad you use Novus # 3 but you have to be careful.

    #69 3 years ago

    I have a few of those little waterless GoJo packets that I keep in the spare tire well of my cars.

    If I have to change a tire, I can quickly (and without water) clean the grease off my hands.

    #70 3 years ago

    So where does Gemini Technologies CP-100 Playfield cleaner (the blue stuff) fall in the scheme of things? It seems to work well on rubbers but I always keep it away from Plastic Ramps, posts and Mylar.

    #71 3 years ago

    This is a great guide since everyone will be cleaning their game (hopefully) at one time or another. Can I also suggest a future topic: a guide to cabinet cleaning (I know you already have cabinet restoration), thanks.

    #72 3 years ago

    CP100 is the best stuff out there. I have gallons of it lol!
    Doesn't leave that white gunk behind when people don't wipe it all off (pasty novus)
    PAPA in Pennsylvania uses CP100 as well..... Makes the ball roll really fast and smooth!

    #73 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinwow:

    CP100 is the best stuff out there. I have gallons of it lol!
    Doesn't leave that white gunk behind when people don't wipe it all off (pasty novus)
    PAPA in Pennsylvania uses CP100 as well..... Makes the ball roll really fast and smooth!

    But I fear we are about to hear it contains Silicone.

    #74 3 years ago
    Quoted from CactusJack:

    But I fear we are about to hear it contains Silicone.

    Hmm I don't think it does, but I know it doesn't contain water.
    We have been using it for over 15 years on all eras of machines with zero issues

    #75 3 years ago
    Quoted from CactusJack:

    But I fear we are about to hear it contains Silicone.

    Or potassium benzoate. (That's bad.)

    #76 3 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Or potassium benzoate. (That's bad.)

    Haha!!! The sprinkles!!!

    11
    #77 3 years ago

    WHAT IS THE BEST PLAYFIELD WAX?

    ============================================================

    That is the million dollar question, right there.

    Wax is one of those mysterious products that is sold with the promise of 99% bullshit.

    "Deepest Shine", "Ultimate Protection", "Longest Shine", "Super Rich Formula", "Handmade in Small Batches", "Super Polymer", "Hard Shell", "Water Beading Formula", "Rich Gloss Mix", "Professional Formula", "Sun Shield", "Especially Formulated for Modern Autos", "Ultimate Wet Look" - none of that stuff tells me anything about anything. It's total nonsense.

    Consumer's Reports rated Black Magic as the top car wax, because it was "very compatible" with not staining rubber and plastic trim. They said it was not "Excellent" though, and broke down after 4 weeks.

    But if you go to a car show, with lot's of "serious" waxers, nobody would be caught dead with a bottle of Black Magic. Everyone has either one of the big three (Meguiars, Mothers or Blitz), or some strange boutique brand that is handmade in tiny batches, baked in cast iron pots over cherry wood logs, and finally sprinkled with the dust from fairy's wings.

    So with all of the waxes I've personally tried on a pinball machine, it seems to me that Blitz One Grand lasts the longest in a pinball machine enviroment.

    One Grand.jpg

    You drag your fingers over the well played surface and it still feels like it's waxed. So you know it's still protecting the playfield from ball wear. It's not $60 a can. It does not leave white residue everywhere after it drys that you have to vacuum up. It does not stain plastics. It cleans off completely with Naphtha and allows clearcoating later without fisheyes. You use an incredibly tiny amount to wax a playfield.

    "But wait, Vid, I use Carnauba Chubass Wax and it works like magic! Totally deep gloss! A professional car detailer used it on my Mongoose bike when I was a kid. I've been using it ever since! " - That's totally fine. There are thousands of Carnauba Paste Waxes that I've never even heard of. If I lived to be 200 years old, I would not have time to try them all in any meaningful way.

    I can only tell you what seems to last the longest for me and the operators I service.

    I have indeed used Mother's and Meguiar's Carnauba Paste Wax; they both work fine, Blitz just seems to last longer.

    With that said, let the arguments begin!

    #78 3 years ago

    How about cleaning dirty,filthy white rubber?

    #79 3 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    How about cleaning dirty,filthy white rubber?

    Naphtha cleans it great.

    But, I've got to be honest here, rubber is so cheap that unless it is in an impossible to reach location, I usually just replace it.

    Also, although I've only had a few months experience with it, Titan Silicone Rubber does not get dirty. Wipe it with a damp cloth and it looks brand new.

    #80 3 years ago

    I do like Blitz but that screw on plastic cap can be a real bitch. Maybe that's why my buddy puts his in a mason jar.

    #81 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I do like Blitz but that screw on plastic cap can be a real bitch. Maybe that's why my buddy puts his in a mason jar.

    #82 3 years ago

    I use this with good results, lasts a while too. No residue, easy on and off.

    image.jpg

    #83 3 years ago

    That's funny... The cool looking sparkly bottle of mill wax isn't good for our playfields that Marco sells, I have a huge bottle of it, I love how it leaves a glorious glob of crap in hard to reach places, and if the bottle gets bumped just right it blurps out a rocket of puke that takes me 5 minutes to locate, oh crap, it just landed on the blue mesh of my new running shoes.

    #84 3 years ago

    Rats, Cannot get Blitz wax sent to Australia, not available here. I have the white residue from Millers Wax on many of my star posts - now I know why. Rats.

    #85 3 years ago
    Quoted from dendoc:

    Rats, Cannot get Blitz wax sent to Australia, not available here. I have the white residue from Millers Wax on many of my star posts - now I know why. Rats.

    Don't sweat it too much, after you use it once, you can't get the lid off, lol

    I'm with odin, I'm guessing I need to warm it up and put it in another container, or just throw away the lid and put the container in a ziplock bag, or Tupperware

    #86 3 years ago

    So, you mentioned pure carnuba being harder. Would it be worth seeking out a harder compound that needs to be heated up a bit in order to apply to the playfield?

    #87 3 years ago
    Quoted from Deaconblooze:

    So, you mentioned pure carnuba being harder. Would it be worth seeking out a harder compound that needs to be heated up a bit in order to apply to the playfield?

    Believe me, there are guys who apply a coat of wax, then heat it with a hair dryer, then apply another coat, heat that one up.

    #88 3 years ago

    My Brother while in the navy was tought to polish shine his dress shoes... A method he shared with me was to use the polish and heat it up on the shoe with a lighter, my first impression of flame polishing

    So with this in mind, maybe we could use low heat on the wax after applying it with maybe a hair dryer. Vid what do you think?

    Edit:
    Damnit vid, I just type too slow

    #89 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I do like Blitz but that screw on plastic cap can be a real bitch. Maybe that's why my buddy puts his in a mason jar.

    That is true. I have had 2 jars of the stuff.
    The first I had was hard but easy to apply. The second one I got was very oily, soft and clumpy. Don't know if I would buy it again.

    #90 3 years ago
    Quoted from Chosen_S:

    Don't sweat it too much, after you use it once, you can't get the lid off, lol

    The lid is gigantic and completely smooth.

    The last few batches have had lids that somehow make themselves crazy tight a few months after opening.

    If you don't have big hands, it is really hard to grip the waxed, smooth lid tight enough to turn it.

    I've tried waxing the threads, but it's still tight once closed.

    Maybe use a can from another brand of wax, old Tupperware, or a wide mouth peanut butter jar

    #91 3 years ago
    Quoted from dendoc:

    Rats, Cannot get Blitz wax sent to Australia, not available here. I have the white residue from Millers Wax on many of my star posts - now I know why. Rats.

    RTBB used to stock it, but it's not on their website at the moment. Maybe contact Nino about it and let me know how you go.

    25
    #92 3 years ago

    I am convinced that the poster "Vid1900 is actually a consortium of veteran pinheads who post as a collective. Too much wisdom, experience, and resourcefulness to be just one man.

    #93 3 years ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    I am convinced that the poster "Vid1900 is actually a consortium of veteran pinheads who post as a collective. Too much wisdom, experience, and resourcefulness to be just one man.

    Pinball Borg, the pinhead collective

    #94 3 years ago

    Now Vid, tell us if all hand cleaners are equal? I've heard that hand cleaners are great for cleaning a playfield. Does that include Goop, Gojo, Lava (without the sand), Fast Orange?

    #95 3 years ago
    Quoted from dmbjunky:

    I've heard that hand cleaners are great for cleaning a playfield.

    Show me some dirt on a playfield that requires hand cleaner to remove it.

    #96 3 years ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    I am convinced that the poster "Vid1900 is actually a consortium of veteran pinheads who post as a collective. Too much wisdom, experience, and resourcefulness to be just one man.

    Resistance is futile.

    #97 3 years ago

    I don't see any problem at all with "cleaner waxes". As long as you don't bear down with them and use a soft applicator, you're not taking any clear off of any measurable amount in hundreds of uses (years and years).

    You are over-exaggerating some products abilities to wear down top coats or damage finishes. If that were the case, there would be many. many, MANY more cars with ruined finishes from these products, as cars' finishes are in an infinitely more destructive environment and are much more aggressively polished at every use. You see classic cars all the time with original finishes that have been shined with cleaner waxes hundreds of times with like-showroom finishes still gleaming. How can that be if these products are so destructive? Answer: they aren't.

    That's my opinion on cleaner waxes.

    #98 3 years ago
    Quoted from cody_chunn:

    I don't see any problem at all with "cleaner waxes". As long as you don't bear down with them and use a soft applicator, you're not taking any clear off of any measurable amount in hundreds of uses (years and years).
    You are over-exaggerating some products abilities to wear down top coats or damage finishes. If that were the case, there would be many. many, MANY more cars with ruined finishes from these products, as cars' finishes are in an infinitely more destructive environment and are much more aggressively polished at every use. You see classic cars all the time with original finishes that have been shined with cleaner waxes hundreds of times with like-showroom finishes still gleaming. How can that be if these products are so destructive? Answer: they aren't.
    That's my opinion on cleaner waxes.

    I think the main point against cleaner wax is that they contain silicone. Silicone is deadly if you ever need to recoat your playfield, you'll have fish eye everywhere.

    #99 3 years ago

    Yes, and because your machine isn't exposed to elements like a car, it also means it doesn't need to be "cleaned up" in the same way. As long as you keep your machine regularly maintained, you shouldn't need to use those cleaners, just like you don't get your car repainted after every time it rains.

    #100 3 years ago

    My general rule, start with the least harsh cleaner and if that doesn't work, work your way up until you find one that does.

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