(Topic ID: 137689)

Cleaning and Waxing Pinball Machines - Vid's Guide


By vid1900

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 1,798 posts
  • 337 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 days ago by Oneangrymo
  • Topic is favorited by 814 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 291 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    D42A5BFF-7935-417E-B857-A1A8EC4678DE (resized).jpeg
    3679737D-6271-4698-86D7-9CB37B825470 (resized).jpeg
    IMG_2394 (resized).jpeg
    20190615_102849 (resized).jpg
    dremel-specialty-hand-tools-pc10-01-64_1000 (resized).jpg
    949A33B7-ED5A-4ADC-9A23-2EDD4CE4444D (resized).jpeg
    nascar (resized).jpg
    IMG_20190514_173541 (resized).jpg
    pasted_image (resized).png
    Screenshot_20190509-205529~2 (resized).png
    Screenshot_20190509-205649 (resized).png
    IMG_20190509_202119 (resized).jpg
    IMG_20190509_202136 (resized).jpg
    IMG_20190509_193108 (resized).jpg
    20190331_212120[3433].jpg
    20190331_211439[3432].jpg

    Topic index (key posts)

    3 key posts have been marked in this topic (Show topic index)

    There are 1798 posts in this topic. You are on page 18 of 36.
    13
    #851 3 years ago
    Quoted from Tweety:

    Paint has changed

    Many paints have indeed changed, but pinball playfields have been silkscreened with Ink for the last 80 years.

    Playfields are not painted with Latex on a roller, or sprayed with Waterborne paint like a car, nor Powerdercoated like a bicycle.

    All of those great innovations in paint don't really apply to playfields.....Still Ink on plywood.

    Quoted from Tweety:

    waxes have changed

    Many car finish companies try to pass off Silicone Polymers as "wax".

    Silicones are great at making water bead, and they look shiny for a few days, but they don't offer much in abrasion protection.

    Silicones also greatly hamper the playfield restoration process, as they soak-in and contaminate the pores of the wood.

    Real playfield protection comes from hard waxes. Good abrasion protection, slick surface for ball speed (Steve Richie recommended), and easy removal when playfield repair is needed.

    Quoted from Tweety:

    but this old coot Vid is stuck in a time warp back in the 80's

    Carnauba wax has been around since at least the 1700s

    My great granddad, vid1700, was very fond of it.

    IQusa_(resized).jpg

    #852 3 years ago

    A shout out to that OW "original waxer" vid1700! Love it!

    #853 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    My great granddad, vid1700, was very fond of it

    Where is Hawaii? Not a state, anymore?

    Edit: (Have to click on the map, and enlarge the image, to see it, Thanks to xsvtoys)

    #854 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Many car finish companies try to pass off Silicone Polymers as "wax".

    Silicone Polymers are man made. Should not be labelled as WAX. Ask an auto painter for his comments on anything Silicone.

    Many years ago in Vancouver B.C., a large auto-body shop was closed for 3 weeks for interior cleaning and air scrubbing. Someone had poured 5 gallons of Armor-All Tire Dressing down a pipe put through a gap in the shop door. Police thought it could of been a disgruntled customer, the shop owners thought it was a competitor.

    #855 3 years ago
    Quoted from Darcy:

    Where is Hawaii? Not a state, anymore?

    It's there next to Alaska, look again more closely. It's so light in color you can hardly see it

    The Vid1700 thing was great, made my day.

    #856 3 years ago

    So about a month ago I was trying to clean a KISS pinball machine and getting to the Star Child area was a major pain in the butt. You have to use a stick on a rag and can never fully clean the area. Then last night I was trying to clean a Flintstones game and certain areas are just impossible to clean. Is there a tool or an easier way to clean a machine?

    #857 3 years ago
    Quoted from hool10:

    So about a month ago I was trying to clean a KISS pinball machine and getting to the Star Child area was a major pain in the butt. You have to use a stick on a rag and can never fully clean the area. Then last night I was trying to clean a Flintstones game and certain areas are just impossible to clean. Is there a tool or an easier way to clean a machine?

    Sometimes you just have to take it apart to do a great job.

    #858 3 years ago

    It seems like every time I wax my WOZ machine with Blitz, it loses that waxy feel pretty quickly, whereas when I wax my Stern Star Trek, it keeps it for months. I know this is probably a dumb question, but is there something about different clear coats that would make one feel more waxy than the other (or one wear off faster than the other)?

    #859 3 years ago
    Quoted from hool10:

    So about a month ago I was trying to clean a KISS pinball machine and getting to the Star Child area was a major pain in the butt. You have to use a stick on a rag and can never fully clean the area. Then last night I was trying to clean a Flintstones game and certain areas are just impossible to clean. Is there a tool or an easier way to clean a machine?

    I have a couple different hemostats to get to the tough spots. The nice thing about these is you can push and pull and unclamp and reclamp from a different position to move a rag through.
    hemostat_(resized).PNG

    #860 3 years ago
    Quoted from hool10:

    Is there a tool or an easier way to clean a machine?

    Look up "Pimp Stixxx". They sell a kit for detailing motorcycles, various lengths of small tubing and attachments. It maybe what you are looking for. The price is around $30.00.

    #861 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    It seems like every time I wax my WOZ machine with Blitz, it loses that waxy feel pretty quickly, whereas when I wax my Stern Star Trek, it keeps it for months. I know this is probably a dumb question, but is there something about different clear coats that would make one feel more waxy than the other (or one wear off faster than the other)?

    Could be the WOZ had some other "protection" applied at some point.

    Just like most auto detailing joints will apply paint sealer first, then the Carnauba wax afterwards.

    Try cleaning the playfield with Naphtha first to hopefully remove any chemicals, then re-wax with Blitz.

    -25
    #862 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Many paints have indeed changed, but pinball playfields have been silkscreened with Ink for the last 80 years.
    Playfields are not painted with Latex on a roller, or sprayed with Waterborne paint like a car, nor Powerdercoated like a bicycle.
    All of those great innovations in paint don't really apply to playfields.....Still Ink on plywood.

    Many car finish companies try to pass off Silicone Polymers as "wax".
    Silicones are great at making water bead, and they look shiny for a few days, but they don't offer much in abrasion protection.
    Silicones also greatly hamper the playfield restoration process, as they soak-in and contaminate the pores of the wood.
    Real playfield protection comes from hard waxes. Good abrasion protection, slick surface for ball speed (Steve Richie recommended), and easy removal when playfield repair is needed.

    Carnauba wax has been around since at least the 1700s
    My great granddad, vid1700, was very fond of it.

    Pic of Vid.

    pasted_image_(resized).png

    19
    #863 3 years ago

    Seriously dude, you've got fifteen posts and you're mouthing off to one of the most respected technical people on pinside. WTF?

    #864 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Could be the WOZ had some other "protection" applied at some point.
    Just like most auto detailing joints will apply paint sealer first, then the Carnauba wax afterwards.
    Try cleaning the playfield with Naphtha first to hopefully remove any chemicals, then re-wax with Blitz.

    Ok thanks. It was straight from the factory. I'll check with other WOZ owners to see if they have had a similar experience. I also want to try that P21S stuff (another WOZ owner swears by it), but man it's expensive.

    #865 3 years ago
    Quoted from Tweety:

    this old coot

    Your bigotry against the senior population is quite indicative of your character.

    #866 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    It seems like every time I wax my WOZ machine with Blitz, it loses that waxy feel pretty quickly, whereas when I wax my Stern Star Trek, it keeps it for months. I know this is probably a dumb question, but is there something about different clear coats that would make one feel more waxy than the other (or one wear off faster than the other)?

    I used to use Blitz, then it became hard to get, So I picked up some P21S 100% pure carnauba from amazon (silver can).
    I really like it. Goes on like butter, dries fast, leaves no white dust flakes. Buffs hard a nails, incredible shine.
    The JJP factory uses mist and shine as a final detailing on all the pins. I have that also, but its not a wax. I only use it for quick touchups if I take off the glass. Its a lot like a slightly heavier novus 1, works on plastics and ramps too.

    #867 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    I'll check with other WOZ owners to see if they have had a similar experience.

    Remember that WOZ playfields came from several different vendors, so YMMV

    #868 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    I used to use Blitz, then it became hard to get, So I picked up some P21S 100% pure carnauba from amazon (silver can).
    I really like it. Goes on like butter, dries fast, leaves no white dust flakes. Buffs hard a nails, incredible shine.
    The JJP factory uses mist and shine as a final detailing on all the pins. I have that also, but its not a wax. I only use it for quick touchups if I take off the glass. Its a lot like a slightly heavier novus 1, works on plastics and ramps too.

    Did you have the problem I described with Blitz where it seemed to wear off quickly? If so, is P21S any better?

    Quoted from vid1900:

    Remember that WOZ playfields came from several different vendors, so YMMV

    Fair point. I believe I read earlier that naptha is safe with mylar, correct?

    #869 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    The JJP factory uses mist and shine as a final detailing on all the pins.

    MSDS datasheet doesn't list the ingredients, but according to their website at least it does not contain silicone.

    I'd be interested to hear nokoro's results after cleaning with Naptha.

    #870 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    Fair point. I believe I read earlier that naptha is safe with mylar, correct?

    Yep, it's fine.

    #871 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    Did you have the problem I described with Blitz where it seemed to wear off quickly? If so, is P21S any better?

    Fair point. I believe I read earlier that naptha is safe with mylar, correct?

    Your game is too new to need any serious cleaning.
    I didnt do a serious shop job on my WOZ until I had 2000 plays.

    In my experience, wax has to take hold. 3 or 4 waxings over time, not all at once.
    I think this is because of surface oils and such like vid says.

    The thinner the wax the better more effective protection.

    I always wax twice but only because I miss areas completely, that I want to protect.

    Yes you can strip the PF and get serious, but regular waxing will absorb minor oily crap (fingerprints etc.) off the PF without tearing into it with naptha on a brand new game.

    I use naptha only to remove old dirty wax, my game is too new for that yet. Now a 20 or 30 year old game, that is way different!

    At 5000 plays I will have to strip the PF to polish out the ball tracks. Naptha then to clean off all the polishing compund and old dead wax, then 2 coats if P21S and power buff the whole surface.

    Im estimating this based on the current wear and tear I see on my game.

    #872 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Your bigotry against the senior population is quite indicative of your character.

    I took it as a compliment for you. goat = Greatest Of All Time after all

    #873 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    My great granddad, vid1700

    What a family name you got there, vid!

    #874 3 years ago

    Well, I was at Home Depot about to buy naptha, when I read the label. My pins are in the basement, and it is not well ventilated at all. Unfortunately, it is too hard to get the pins up and down just to clean them. Unless that label is overdoing the warning, I don't think it is worth trying to use that stuff down there. And the pins aren't really that dirty.

    Is there a safer alternative to naptha? I'm guessing not or else it would have been recommended. Do you think the label is overdoing the warning and that there is a safe way to use naptha in a confined, poorly ventilated space? If not, I'll just try applying an additional coat of wax, giving it extra time to dry, and see what happens.

    #875 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    Do you think the label is overdoing the warning and that there is a safe way to use naptha in a confined, poorly ventilated space?

    Naptha is not that bad, I think use it and run a fan for a bit once you are done. But I'm the kind of maniac that uses basic hand tools without safety goggles so take my advice at your own peril.

    #876 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    Do you think the label is overdoing the warning and that there is a safe way to use naptha in a confined, poorly ventilated space?

    Naphtha is the same stuff you refill your lighter with, it evaporates VERY quickly.

    I use it in everybody's basements while doing service work, and it has not raised any homeowner/spousal complaints in the last 40 years.

    Lay the dirty rags flat outside and all the Naphtha evaporates in less than a minute, with no lingering smell, bone dry.

    #877 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Naphtha is the same stuff you refill your lighter with, it evaporates VERY quickly.
    I use it in everybody's basements while doing service work, and it has not raised any homeowner/spousal complaints in the last 40 years.
    Lay the dirty rags flat outside and all the Naphtha evaporates in less than a minute, with no lingering smell, bone dry.

    Ok, thanks. I'll go back next weekend and pick some up. I'll try it on my old Special Force first just to see how it goes.

    The label of the VM&P naptha says to dilute it. Do you guys do this or just use it in the undiluted form?

    #878 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    The label of the VM&P naptha says to dilute it. Do you guys do this or just use it in the undiluted form?

    Undiluted

    #879 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    The label of the VM&P naptha says to dilute it. Do you guys do this or just use it in the undiluted form?

    I do know what yow could dilute it with. it is used to dilute paint.

    I do not consider it that dangerous, not like lacquer thinner, but good ventilation is still wise.

    #880 3 years ago

    Thanks for all of the assistance. As you can tell, this is my first time using naptha. I'm generally a cautious person about trying things with my pins that I haven't done before. I'm worried that I may miss something that is obvious or second nature to the rest of you. It's great to have guides like this so you can learn. I'm a big believer in learning from your own mistakes, except when it involves a mistake with a $9,000 game.

    #881 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    It seems like every time I wax my WOZ machine with Blitz, it loses that waxy feel pretty quickly, whereas when I wax my Stern Star Trek, it keeps it for months. I know this is probably a dumb question, but is there something about different clear coats that would make one feel more waxy than the other (or one wear off faster than the other)?

    Quoted from vid1900:

    Could be the WOZ had some other "protection" applied at some point.
    Just like most auto detailing joints will apply paint sealer first, then the Carnauba wax afterwards.
    Try cleaning the playfield with Naphtha first to hopefully remove any chemicals, then re-wax with Blitz.

    Ok, I just cleaned my playfield with naptha and then applied a fresh coat of blitz wax. I waited 30 minutes, did Vid's finger test to make sure the wax was dry, and then buffed the whole playfield. The playfield felt fairly slick, though not as slick as my Stern Star Trek. I played a game and noticed streaks of wax after I finished. (See below picture.) I felt the playfield again, and it didn't feel quite as slick. When I wax Star Trek, the game is almost unplayable for 50 games or so until some of the wax wears away. With WOZ, which admittedly is a slower game to begin with, while the game was a bit faster, I could definitely play it easily. I didn't notice the fresh wax as much as with other pins. So, do those streaks mean something? Could there be something about the clear they are using that makes wax stick to it less? I next want to try P21S, but would be interested in hearing people's thoughts first.

    PostWax1Game_(resized).JPG

    #882 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    Ok, I just cleaned my playfield with naptha and then applied a fresh coat of blitz wax. I waited 30 minutes, did Vid's finger test to make sure the wax was dry, and then buffed the whole playfield. The playfield felt fairly slick, though not as slick as my Stern Star Trek. I played a game and noticed streaks of wax after I finished. (See below picture.) I felt the playfield again, and it didn't feel quite as slick. When I wax Star Trek, the game is almost unplayable for 50 games or so until some of the wax wears away. With WOZ, which admittedly is a slower game to begin with, while the game was a bit faster, I could definitely play it easily. I didn't notice the fresh wax as much as with other pins. So, do those streaks mean something? Could there be something about the clear they are using that makes wax stick to it less? I next want to try P21S, but would be interested in hearing people's thoughts first.

    S100 - P21S's brother. Half the cost. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-truly-great-product-p21s-wax-a-new-standard#postbox

    #883 3 years ago

    Those streaks of wax are strange.

    Is there a possibility that there is some stray wax on a rubber somewhere?

    #884 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Those streaks of wax are strange.
    Is there a possibility that there is some stray wax on a rubber somewhere?

    I don't know. Maybe. I recall seeing them after I waxed WOZ before. I usually see them after the first few games, keep wiping them up, and then they don't form anymore. I just wonder about them because that combined with the less than slick feel to the game makes me think something is going on.

    #885 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    I just wonder about them because that combined with the less than slick feel to the game makes me think something is going on.

    I would not worry about it.

    Enjoy your game and don't overthink it

    #886 3 years ago

    Ok. Thanks. At some point I'll try the P21S and report if I notice different results.

    #887 3 years ago

    Just got done using P21S for the first time. Goes on very easily and does not have any extra wax flakes you see from time to time with blitz. However I wonder if it will hold up as long as blitz does. Doesn't seem to be as rugged from the application process and doesn't seem to harden as much as blitz. Game looks great and is slick though.

    #888 3 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Just got done using P21S for the first time. Goes on very easily and does not have any extra wax flakes you see from time to time with blitz. However I wonder if it will hold up as long as blitz does. Doesn't seem to be as rugged from the application process and doesn't seem to harden as much as blitz. Game looks great and is slick though.

    Did you use the silver or blue can?

    #889 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    Did you use the silver or blue can?

    Blue. So it has the beeswax in it. I assume that is what makes it so easy to apply.

    Silver is pure carnauba so I assume that's just like blitz or mothers.

    #890 3 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Blue. So it has the beeswax in it. I assume that is what makes it so easy to apply.
    Silver is pure carnauba so I assume that's just like blitz or mothers.

    Someone in these threads said that silver is a bit more difficult to apply but is more durable. I think I will try it.

    #891 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    Someone in these threads said that silver is a bit more difficult to apply but is more durable. I think I will try it.

    That hard carnuaba is just that, hard. So work with it a bit with the applicator you're using to soften it up before you apply it. That helps a lot.

    #892 3 years ago

    Does anyone know where to purchase " 1Grand BLITZ Wax " up here in Ontario CANADA ?

    #893 3 years ago

    How to clean this deep dirt. Not really looking to clear the game, so don't want to go ME+alcohol but is there a way to get this stuff up more? These pics are basically a stripped playfield (Golden Arrow) that I have vacuumed up the loose stuff and done a once over with naphtha. playfield is in really nice shape, just really really dirty. Thanks.

    2016-08-17_17.56.10_(resized).jpg

    2016-08-17_17.55.46_(resized).jpg

    #894 2 years ago

    Magic eraser will grind out the imbedded dirt but will probably loosen the planked areas. If you were super careful you might get away with it, but you would still have to clear-coat to fix all the loose areas and probably have to do some touch-up for the scraped areas that are missing paint.

    #895 2 years ago
    Quoted from BorgDog:

    How to clean this deep dirt.

    I know it isn't particularly recommended by Vid, but by the looks of that dirt, you'll probably have good luck using Novus 2 and a rag on that type of dirt. It's abrasive, but it won't strip off the lacquer finish like ME+alcohol would.

    #896 2 years ago
    Quoted from mbaumle:

    I know it isn't particularly recommended by Vid, but by the looks of that dirt, you'll probably have good luck using Novus 2 and a rag on that type of dirt. It's abrasive, but it won't strip off the lacquer finish like ME+alcohol would.

    I actually did try a bit of Novus 2 under the apron and it did seem to work fairly well.

    Would ME+naptha be another alternative just to get a little abrasive and get more of the dirt out? Not sure which is more abrasive the Novus or the ME.

    #897 2 years ago
    Quoted from BorgDog:

    I actually did try a bit of Novus 2 under the apron and it did seem to work fairly well.
    Would ME+naptha be another alternative just to get a little abrasive and get more of the dirt out? Not sure which is more abrasive the Novus or the ME.

    There have been a lot of tests done with the Magic Eraser + 91% (or better) alcohol. The results have been very good.
    Seems to clean a bit better than novus 2, and may be easier to control as you can cut it into small pieces.

    #898 2 years ago
    Quoted from BorgDog:

    I actually did try a bit of Novus 2 under the apron and it did seem to work fairly well.
    Would ME+naptha be another alternative just to get a little abrasive and get more of the dirt out? Not sure which is more abrasive the Novus or the ME.

    ME is going to be more abrasive by a fairly large margin. ME+(solvent of choice) is basically wet sanding with a very fine sandpaper.

    Novus 2 (which, admittedly, is what I've been using for years on all my playfields before I learned naphtha is far gentler), is going to be far less abrasive. It's more of a polisher. You'll be able to buff out certain areas of your playfield to a pretty high shine with the stuff, and it won't completely strip away the finish, like Vid mentions in earlier posts, it'll just thin it out. It's good for a "once over" but you don't want to make it your go-to every time you need to clean the playfield between waxes.

    If I were in your shoes, I'd go with Novus 2 first, followed with a good hearty wax. It'll get the grime out and buff up nicely, but it won't get those ball swirls out, and it won't detrimentally strip away anything from your playfield like ME would. Just be careful around the planking areas. If you absolutely cannot live with ball swirls, then I'd carefully tread into the ME foam domain.

    #899 2 years ago
    Quoted from BorgDog:

    How to clean this deep dirt. Not really looking to clear the game, so don't want to go ME+alcohol but is there a way to get this stuff up more? These pics are basically a stripped playfield (Golden Arrow) that I have vacuumed up the loose stuff and done a once over with naphtha. playfield is in really nice shape, just really really dirty. Thanks.

    You can see by the pattern of the "dirt" that the clear has cracked along the grain of the wood (this is normal from the expansion and contraction).

    So nothing short of stripping off that topcoat is going to fully clean it out.

    That playfield looks like an excellent restoration candidate, so I'd probably just preserve it, as is.

    Then one day, someone can ME+Alcohol strip it.

    Keep it well waxed, and don't be afraid to put down some Mylar if an area looks like it is starting to wear.

    #900 2 years ago

    Thanks for the replies all. I actually have no issue with ball swirls and other normal aging marks, it's just the insane amount of grime that bothers me.

    Thanks for the awesome threads and advice vid, I may end up clearing it yet if I can't get it clean enough to not bother me every time I play it.

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 159.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 229.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 221.00
    Cabinet Parts
    Tilted Pinball
    $ 76.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    $ 24.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    From: $ 40.00
    Lighting - Interactive
    Professor Pinball
    $ 7,499.00
    Pinball Machine
    Classic Game Rooms
    $ 68.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    PinWorlds
    £ 58.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Sillyoldelf Mods
    $ 43.00
    Lighting - Interactive
    Hookedonpinball.com
    $ 159.00
    $ 175.00
    Lighting - Interactive
    Professor Pinball
    $ 76.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Gulf Coast Pinball, LLC
    $ 6,995.00
    Pinball Machine
    Flip N Out Pinball
    $ 199.99
    $ 119.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 79.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    $ 99.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    From: $ 42.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 79.00
    From: $ 218.00
    There are 1798 posts in this topic. You are on page 18 of 36.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside