(Topic ID: 137689)

Cleaning and Waxing Pinball Machines - Vid's Guide

By vid1900

8 years ago


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    There are 2,210 posts in this topic. You are on page 15 of 45.
    #701 7 years ago
    Quoted from ZNET:

    Perhaps if you used this Napththa product, which smells just fine, you would have a more favorable view of its uses in the pinball restoration process?

    Even just regular Naphtha in a can smells fine.

    But if you are using it indoors, you should still wear your painting chem-mask.

    Don't risk your health with spraypaint, paint thinner, 2PAC, solvents.....my GF even wears a chem mask when using the soap scum remover in the shower - toxic stuff.

    #702 7 years ago
    Quoted from ZNET:

    Gemini's CP 100 is 85% to 98% Naphtha and less than 0.6% Methylene Chloride. It has a neutral scent, not malodorous in the slightest. It's been the singularly most beneficial product I've used on dozens of playfields and on a variety of pinball components over the last decade or two. Most EM playfields seem to need some magic eraser with alcohol, followed by CP 100, followed by an application of wax. Perhaps if you used this Napththa product, which smells just fine, you would have a more favorable view of its uses in the pinball restoration process?

    Sure, I guess. As a secondary cleaner it probably works as well as naphtha. I *think* the argument being made is that naphtha in whatever form being sold under whatever name is all you need to clean a field. Which in my limited experience with the product is categorically false. It is also a dangerous combustible to have hanging around. The manufacturer states clearly it should not be used as a general cleaner, and I think pinball playfields are about as far away as you can get from it's intended purpose. That's OK, though. I will try to make this my last post on the subject, unless addressed directly like here.

    Another claim is that vintage mid-80s, or somewhere in there going back in time, many fields have an alcohol-soluble top coat that gets stripped of with the alcohol/magic eraser method. However, as far as I have read, there have been no scientific experiment to back this claim. Or at what rate the topcoat is removed, or if it is *all* removed virtually instantaneously, or if it just whisks off the top.

    I think the takeaway here is that if you use alcohol and ME on a vintage playfield, you *should* re-clear it with something to extend its cosmetic appeal for play.

    -Rattle Can Renovations™

    #703 7 years ago

    Everyone needs to keep in mind that proper **cleaning** is non-destructive.

    If your **cleaner** removes the top coat of your playfield, that is NOT cleaning.

    #704 7 years ago

    Where are you guys finding One Grand Blitz Wax? It seems to be out of stock everywhere...

    #705 7 years ago
    Quoted from mystman12:

    Where are you guys finding One Grand Blitz Wax? It seems to be out of stock everywhere...

    http://store.carcareonline.com/onegrandblitzcarnaubawax-15ozcan.aspx

    #706 7 years ago

    Balboarules found this mini-vac set for $2.83 shipped on ebay:

    ebay.com link: itm

    I ordered a few of them and they are really nice quality for the price.

    Not flimsy at all, and the square shaped brush is perfect size for scrubbing inlanes.

    Good stuff - highly recommended!

    IMG_20160527_1504373171_(resized).jpgIMG_20160527_1504373171_(resized).jpg

    #707 7 years ago

    *HEAVY SIGH*

    I just found this thread only *after* stripping down the playfield on a Sorcerer a friend of mine just bought. I'm doing all the rebuilding of pops and flippers, etc. for him. The game was dirty as hell, so I though, great, I'll bust out the Mill Wax as a first wave of cleaning.

    Now I find out it's made with silicone and, if I understand correctly, any chance of a future clearcoat job has now been defeated.

    Shit.

    So, moving on from that sad disappointment...I have been using Butcher's Wax on my games for a while, as it seems to offer lasting protection and really makes the games play super fast as well. Is there anything wrong with using it? I'll move on to Blitz when I need to buy more, but seeing as I'm constantly throwing money at these games, I'm inclined to use up the Butcher's that I have before investing $30 to try out a different wax. On the other hand, if it's really REALLY better or if Butcher's is somehow problematic, I'd welcome hearing about it.

    #708 7 years ago
    Quoted from sethbenjamin:

    Now I find out it's made with silicone and, if I understand correctly, any chance of a future clearcoat job has now been defeated.

    Shit.

    It can still be clearcoated, it will just be a lot more work to do.

    I've got a section coming up on filling in fisheyes on silicone contaminated playfields. Stay tuned.

    Quoted from sethbenjamin:

    I have been using Butcher's Wax on my games for a while, as it seems to offer lasting protection and really makes the games play super fast as well. Is there anything wrong with using it?

    I see people using it on outdoor bronze statues in my neighborhood, but I've never seen someone use it on a pin.

    Does it smell strongly of solvent? Does it burn if you light it up?

    #709 7 years ago
    Quoted from sethbenjamin:

    *HEAVY SIGH*
    I just found this thread only *after* stripping down the playfield on a Sorcerer a friend of mine just bought. I'm doing all the rebuilding of pops and flippers, etc. for him. The game was dirty as hell, so I though, great, I'll bust out the Mill Wax as a first wave of cleaning.
    Now I find out it's made with silicone and, if I understand correctly, any chance of a future clearcoat job has now been defeated.
    Shit.
    So, moving on from that sad disappointment...I have been using Butcher's Wax on my games for a while, as it seems to offer lasting protection and really makes the games play super fast as well. Is there anything wrong with using it? I'll move on to Blitz when I need to buy more, but seeing as I'm constantly throwing money at these games, I'm inclined to use up the Butcher's that I have before investing $30 to try out a different wax. On the other hand, if it's really REALLY better or if Butcher's is somehow problematic, I'd welcome hearing about it.

    Don't worry about silicone on the PF. There are removers now to get most of it off later on if necessary. Also additives for the clear coat to help with silicones. Its not perfect but its not the first time silicones have had to be addressed on auto paint.

    As far as wax, Some of us are using this:

    Collinite's 845 Insulator wax
    http://www.amazon.com/Collinite-Liquid-Insulator-Wax-845/dp/B000JK2D06/ref=sr_1_1

    ITs not too expensive, easy to apply and leaves no white residue.

    #710 7 years ago

    I started a EM topic about Butchers Bowling Alley wax . I started using Butchers in 2011 when I bought my first machine and have been using it twice a year on 4 machines ever since. It's hard to rub off but does a great job. It was given to me by Russ Snyder of Pinrescue and I'm sure he knows what he is doing. I didn't find one person who uses it. Acouple have tried it. I'm talking about EM playfields I'm an EM guy it's all I have

    #711 7 years ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    Also additives for the clear coat to help with silicones.

    Hey Vid: Won't Smoothie Fish Eye Eliminator prevent Fisheyes???

    No.

    Popular lore says that Smoothie will prevent Fisheyes in the clear. It works on clearing automobiles sometimes, but it is powerless against liquid silicones like Pledge or Millwax that have soaked into the pores and checks of the wood.

    I've used both Smoothie and PPG Fisheye Eliminator and neither works all that well, you won't be impressed.

    Worse yet, once you use it, every layer of clear applied afterwards will also require it. At least with straight clear, once you fix a few fisheyes, they don't ever return because the silicone is sealed under the first coat.

    Also, once you contaminate your gun with all the silicones that Smoothie contains, you now have to always use it in that gun. The gun is "boogered".

    Even the sanding dust from Smoothie clear can contaminate your shop with tiny molecules of silicone (that is why most high end auto refinishing joints won't let Smoothie in the door).

    And it makes the clear coat a little less hard and take longer to cure.

    Save your money.

    85% of the time you will not get a single fisheye in your playfield (unless you have contaminated your gun and shop with silicone Smoothie), so why bother even getting started down that road?

    c72702c06fb1f18a0c80195ca4710c4a2570c61f_(resized).jpgc72702c06fb1f18a0c80195ca4710c4a2570c61f_(resized).jpg

    #712 7 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Does it smell strongly of solvent? Does it burn if you light it up?

    Never tried that until now. Sure does. I'm guessing you're gonna advise against using it from now on?

    #713 7 years ago
    Quoted from Spider3582:

    I started a EM topic about Butchers Bowling Alley wax . I started using Butchers in 2011 when I bought my first machine and have been using it twice a year on 4 machines ever since. It's hard to rub off but does a great job. It was given to me by Russ Snyder of Pinrescue and I'm sure he knows what he is doing. I didn't find one person who uses it. Acouple have tried it. I'm talking about EM playfields I'm an EM guy it's all I have

    Yeah, it can be hard to buff out, but I was willing to sacrifice perfect clarity for a solid layer of protection (I don't have the $ for sending out playfields for restoration or buying CPRs, so I'm all about harm reduction/enjoying playing the hell out of my games). I noticed right away when I started using it that the balls moved a lot more like bowling balls - sliding along the playfield rather than simply rolling - and had lots more spin on them. So clearly the wax is reducing friction big time. Sure is cheap, but I'm willing to switch if there's compelling reason to.

    #714 7 years ago

    I found out according to a post that it's not really used on Bowling alleys but it does a good job just hard to rub off but that's OK because it gives great protection

    #715 7 years ago

    Alright, so I plan on cleaning today, but I still have one more question... Should I remove everything from the playfield before I get started? I don't want to if I don't have to, because it seems like a pretty daunting task, but I'm wondering how I'm going to wax areas like the loops and inlanes/outlanes without doing so. Is it as hard to break down the playfield as it looks?

    #716 7 years ago
    Quoted from mystman12:

    Alright, so I plan on cleaning today, but I still have one more question... Should I remove everything from the playfield before I get started? I don't want to if I don't have to, because it seems like a pretty daunting task, but I'm wondering how I'm going to wax areas like the loops and inlanes/outlanes without doing so. Is it as hard to break down the playfield as it looks?

    Depends what game it is. I like to take it apart as much as possible to get in all the nooks that I can.

    #717 7 years ago

    I have used Collinite 885 (paste) on boats, cars and pins for close to two decades. It works nicely, but like all pastes requires some care. It has also never resulted in the sort of split plastic nonsense that is claimed to come from some waxes, even if you get some on the flutes.

    #718 7 years ago
    Quoted from mystman12:

    Alright, so I plan on cleaning today, but I still have one more question... Should I remove everything from the playfield before I get started? I don't want to if I don't have to, because it seems like a pretty daunting task, but I'm wondering how I'm going to wax areas like the loops and inlanes/outlanes without doing so. Is it as hard to break down the playfield as it looks?

    Like Fiberdude says, do as much as you comfortably can

    If the game looks like it's never been cleaned, really dig in there.

    If the game is pretty clean, then you can probably cheat and just do the easy stuff.

    It can be very therapeutic to stip a 'new to you' game and learn it's assemblies as you clean.

    #719 7 years ago

    Okay, one more question before I really begin. I realized I'm going to have to take the playfield in my garage, else my room will smell like naphtha for the rest of eternity. I just went outside though and it seems a little humid. Is it okay for me to work on the playfield in the garage? Or is it okay to use naphtha in my room?

    Oh, also, I ended up tearing the playfield down!

    image_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpeg

    ...Hopefully I can put it all back together.

    #720 7 years ago
    Quoted from mystman12:

    I realized I'm going to have to take the playfield in my garage, else my room will smell like naphtha for the rest of eternity.

    While Naphtha evaporates leaving nothing behind, you do not want to work in an enclosed bedroom with any petro solvents.

    Quoted from mystman12:

    Is it okay for me to work on the playfield in the garage?

    Yes, open the garage door fully and breathe the summer air.

    Lay your Naphtha rags out flat in the sun, the solvent will evaporate in a few minutes and they will be dry.

    Quoted from mystman12:

    Hopefully I can put it all back together.

    That's why you took all those pictures.....

    #721 7 years ago

    Got it in the garage. Looks good to go, although I am wondering if there's a better way to set it up than this?

    image_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpeg

    Edit: Also, should I pour the naphtha directly on the playfield, or wet a towel with it and then wipe?

    #722 7 years ago
    Quoted from mystman12:

    Got it in the garage. Looks good to go, although I am wondering if there's a better way to set it up than this?

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-quick-and-dirty-rotisserie-guide

    This way you can sit down while you work.

    #723 7 years ago

    I have 2 rotisseries, but if you want something quick and dirty this should work fine:

    9b_(resized).jpg9b_(resized).jpg

    #724 7 years ago
    Quoted from Superchicken:

    I have 2 rotisseries, but if you want something quick and dirty this should work fine:

    ...Wow, I can't believe I didn't think of that! Oh well, I got it all clean anyways, now I just need to wax it. Should I avoid bringing it into the garage to wax while it's humid out, or would it be fine if I'm just taking it in for a few hours. (Or should I just wax it in my room? I don't want to make a mess in there.)

    #725 7 years ago

    I just finished stripping, cleaning, polishing, and waxing a Card Whiz. Polished all of the stainless with Mothers, play field cleaned and waxed. Total labor as of right now, 8 1/2 hours.
    Of course I photographed the details before and during disassembly as well as bagging and tagging all parts. I thought I would reuse the original plastics, but now I think replacements will be ordered.
    Yes, it's very rewarding doing as much as you can yourself.

    #726 7 years ago
    Quoted from mystman12:

    Should I avoid bringing it into the garage to wax while it's humid out, or would it be fine if I'm just taking it in for a few hours. (Or should I just wax it in my room? I don't want to make a mess in there.)

    You can wax in humidity, no problem.

    The wax should not make too much mess (assuming it's good wax, and not the flaky white stuff).

    #727 7 years ago
    Quoted from JJHLH:

    Vid's recommended One Grand Blitz Wax can be a bit difficult to find, but I ordered one from this company last week and it arrived yesterday.
    http://store.carcareonline.com/onegrandblitzcarnaubawax-15ozcan.aspx

    Ordered mine from the same place just the other day.

    #728 7 years ago

    Hey Vid! Awesome thread! I recently purchased a Swords of Fury, and it's in great working condition. The playfield does have a bunch of lines throughout it (which you can see in the attached photos), and I was wondering what your recommended course of action would be to help clear this up. I don't think I am up to clearcoating the playfield, but can do other things. Let me know. And thank you for all of the great info you share with the pinball community!

    IMG_4125_(resized).JPGIMG_4125_(resized).JPG

    IMG_4123_(resized).JPGIMG_4123_(resized).JPG

    #729 7 years ago

    Finished cleaning my Stargate, thanks so much Vid! Everything turned out great, although I did have some problems with the wax caking in a few holes and stuff (And I used 1 Grand), but otherwise it looks and plays much better than before. Also ended up getting new rubbers and flipper plastics while I was at it!
    image_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpeg

    #730 7 years ago
    Quoted from MacJedi:

    The playfield does have a bunch of lines throughout it (which you can see in the attached photos), and I was wondering what your recommended course of action would be to help clear this up. I don't think I am up to clearcoating the playfield, but can do other things.

    That's a pretty nice looking playfield.

    Those lines are normal ball swirl and cracks that have formed in the topcoat. Cleaning won't completely remove them (you would have to remove the topcoat to get rid of them).

    If you are not ready to clearcoat yet, then use some Naphtha on a cotton cloth to de-wax and clean. Then wax.

    #731 7 years ago
    Quoted from mystman12:

    Finished cleaning my Stargate, thanks so much Vid! Everything turned out great, although I did have some problems with the wax caking in a few holes and stuff (And I used 1 Grand), but otherwise it looks and plays much better than before. Also ended up getting new rubbers and flipper plastics while I was at it!

    well done very nice job and great looking pf

    #732 7 years ago
    Quoted from mystman12:

    Finished cleaning my Stargate, thanks so much Vid! Everything turned out great, although I did have some problems with the wax caking in a few holes and stuff (And I used 1 Grand), but otherwise it looks and plays much better than before. Also ended up getting new rubbers and flipper plastics while I was at it!

    Be sure to put some mylar down on some of the high wear areas and ball drops to protect it.

    #733 7 years ago

    Ok, I bought new microfiber towels, blitz wax, and a spray bottle of simple green.

    Simple Green came from home depot and is "concentrated".

    Can I just spray a little on the microfiber towel and clean the playfield? Then wax it with a different new microfiber towel? I don't think diluting with water would be a good idea...

    #734 7 years ago
    Quoted from bigbadmiker:

    Ok, I bought new microfiber towels, blitz wax, and a spray bottle of simple green.
    Simple Green came from home depot and is "concentrated".
    Can I just spray a little on the microfiber towel and clean the playfield? Then wax it with a different new microfiber towel? I don't think diluting with water would be a good idea...

    I've done that with good results.

    #735 7 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    I've done that with good results.

    Ok, so just use Simple Green "concentrated" spray on a microfiber...

    I'll give it a shot.

    #736 7 years ago
    Quoted from bigbadmiker:

    Simple Green came from home depot and is "concentrated".

    Can I just spray a little on the microfiber towel and clean the playfield? Then wax it with a different new microfiber towel? I don't think diluting with water would be a good idea...

    Remember, don't use SimpleGreen on old, porous playfields, it will swell the wood!

    #737 7 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Remember, don't use SimpleGreen on old, porous playfields, it will swell the wood!

    Plan to use on potc, sttng, congo, id4... what do you consider old?

    Playfields are in good shape.

    #738 7 years ago
    Quoted from bigbadmiker:

    what do you consider old?

    If you see a bunch of ball swirl or "raw" edges around the inserts, stick with Naphtha.

    f742ee52ba24a2850f505ecc423e53aa5ae6fb25_(resized).jpgf742ee52ba24a2850f505ecc423e53aa5ae6fb25_(resized).jpg

    #739 7 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    If you see a bunch of ball swirl or "raw" edges around the inserts, stick with Naphtha.

    Ok, thanks

    #740 7 years ago

    STEP BY STEP CLEANING AND WAXING A SS BALLY

    =======================================

    It's great to read a bunch of theory about cleaning and waxing, but having a real "case study" is probably even better (and probably easier to understand).

    I got a call to fix the sound on probably the best TRUE Widebody pin ever made - Future Spa.

    Future Spa has a fan layout with simply perfect shot geometry. You don't have to guess what the rules are. One of the best tournament games for testing pin-skill rather than knowledge of the rules.

    This customer called me up that the sound was dead, rubbers were broken and "a bunch of lights are out". I had serviced this game for this customer a few years ago.

    I saw wear in the typical spots on the game. That means bare wood exposed.

    There was wear on the drop target penis, near the saucer and on the main chick.

    #741 7 years ago

    The customer had pulled the Mylar off of the chick a few years ago.

    You could still see the triangular indentation in the wood around where it used to be.

    Needless to say, that was not the best idea considering that this was an old Bally.

    Don't pull Mylar off unless you are going to clearcoat the playfield. It's there to protect the game.

    Don't let people tell you "It's OK for home use to remove the Mylar", because that is often not true.

    #742 7 years ago

    1. Remove all the plastics, and old crumbly rubber.

    2. Since I was converting the GI over to LEDs (they will last WAY longer for this gentleman), I removed the lane dividers too.

    3. Vacuum up all the dust and rubber bits.

    4. Wipe the playfield down to remove the old wax and surface dirt. Since this game had a Ballswirled surface and bare wood exposed, we don't want to use any water based cleaners like Simple Green. I used Naphtha on a soft cloth, as it is safe for older or worn playfields.

    5. The owner of this game is never going to pay $1000 to have the playfield restored (especially since he got the game for free). I touched up the bare wood with Createx paints as soon as the Naphtha had evaporated. I wanted the paint to have time to completely dry before waxing.

    This was just a quick and dirty painting, because it's better than bare wood.

    #743 7 years ago

    Here I touched up the main broad.

    #744 7 years ago

    The Naphtha cleaned out a lot of the ballswirl cracks, but no non-destructive method is going to get it all out.

    If I was going to truly restore this playfield, I'd remove the clear coat with Alcohol and Magic Eraser. Then spray on a new layer of clear to protect the now exposed paint.

    But since this customer is happy with his game as is, I left the clear coat intact to protect the paint.

    5_(resized).jpg5_(resized).jpg

    #745 7 years ago

    As the touch-ups dried, I repaired the sound card.

    6. I took a toothbrush and cleaned all the old wax from the plastic playfield posts from some past owner(s).

    7. I put washers above and below the playfield to keep the Miniposts upright. They really take a beating in this game. There were already T-nuts on the plastic post behind them, so there was not room for any more.

    8. I put a piece of Foam weather stripping behind the target. This will keep the bracket from bending backwards, and thus keep the airballs to a a minimum.

    9. The owner likes his game with white rubbers. I showed him Red Silicone rubbers but he said "they look gay". I did convince him to allow me to put the Titan Silicone rubbers on the Miniposts because they last much longer than regular white rubber. (I even left him a few regular white minipost rubbers, just in case his masculinity was being threatened at some point in the future).

    #746 7 years ago

    10. Next I applied a coat of Blitz Wax to the playfield. I made sure to carefully wax over my paint repairs.

    11. I waxed everything the ball touches. The wire guides, the chrome guides, the apron, the spinners, everything.

    12. I straightened the Spinners with a pair of pliers. Don't scratch up the spinner arm tips, they need to be smooth to spin well. I then used 1/100 of a drop of Zoom Spout Oil to lubricate them for maximum spinning power.

    ----- DO NOT USE TOO MUCH OIL!!!!! -------

    (I don't even use the Zoom Spout Oil's spout. I use a "needle oiler" filled with Zoom)

    Good spinners have crazy long spin times when adjusted properly.

    zoom-spout_79704_(resized).jpgzoom-spout_79704_(resized).jpg

    3111mhTCXRL_(resized).jpg3111mhTCXRL_(resized).jpg

    #747 7 years ago

    13. I used Novus2 to polished the tops of the plastics. I CAREFULLY polished the bottom side of the plastic that goes over the drop target penis. I did not want to polish off any of the ink, but the balls hopping off the drops always scratches this plastic up.

    All the plastics got new white rubber barrel post caps. These help protect the plastics better than post nuts, by giving some relief to an airball strike.

    14. Once the wax was dry, I used a soft cloth to polish off the wax film.

    15. I vacuumed the playfield one last time. Blitz does not create all that flaky white wax dust that cheap waxes do, but it's just good practice.

    16. I put Mylar over all of the playfield touch ups to protect them from further wear. Since the playfield was freshly waxed, the Mylar will be easily removed if the playfield ever gets restored.

    17. I installed all new rubber and of course a new ball. New balls come with a film of oil from the factory. I cleaned the oil off with Brake Cleaner.

    #748 7 years ago

    Great case study Vid.

    Quoted from vid1900:

    One of the best tournament games for testing pin-skill rather than knowledge of the rules.

    That is one crazy idea.

    #749 7 years ago

    Everyone should have a Future Spa in their collection. If anything, just for the amazing pornographic artwork.

    #750 7 years ago

    I've used DriWash (UltraIon) on my cars for almost 20 years, and it seems to be perfect for playfields. Non abrasive, UV Protection, and very long lasting shine. My High Speed playfield cleaned up really nice, and the metal is shiny, also. Even use it on the playfield glass.

    I can't believe how much faster the play is after a DriWash of the playfield.

    My two cents.

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