(Topic ID: 137598)

Cleaning and Wax

By TBatti

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 50 posts
  • 21 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by vid1900
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 6 years ago

I picked up some Novus today to clean. ebay.com link: itm

I think this is the Novus stuff everyone is talking about?

I am also using watered down Simple Green as well. Going to run some test on Novus 1 vs. Simple Green.

I also got some Caranuba wax as well. I used the wax on ST TNG but I can still see some minor scratches. Do you ever put on more than 1 coat of wax?

#2 6 years ago

yeah thats the novus stuff.
i typically put two coats of wax on

#3 6 years ago

I would not want to do anything watered down....I don't like water! The Novus 2 is going to polish the play field, but not necessarily get rid of every scratch. To do that you would have to go deeper into the paint and that is not a good thing. I personally did three manual polishing rounds and two waxing rounds. Get some good microfiber cloths and buff well and it will look great.

#4 6 years ago

i use novas and millwax on my pins. I think novas is the best

#5 6 years ago

Novus is mostly water - check the MSDS

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from TBatti:

I also got some Caranuba wax as well. I used the wax on ST TNG but I can still see some minor scratches. Do you ever put on more than 1 coat of wax?

Wax has absolutely nothing to do with scratches or their removal.

If you want to remove scratches you need to use a polish, and you'd be much better off using a buffer with that polish.

#7 6 years ago

I guess I mean covering them up or I guess filling them in a bit short term anyways.

-1
#8 6 years ago
Quoted from TBatti:

I guess I mean covering them up or I guess filling them in a bit short term anyways.

Good luck with that.

Wax will do little to cover or fill scratches, as you have already discovered.

#9 6 years ago

Use some novus 1 on your plastics, can also do an initial playfield wipe down with novus 1, then use novus 2 to buff out any stubborn areas of grit, wipe off the playfield completely again and then use a good carnuba wax..and yes, wax should create a slightly smoother surface filling in the imperfections in the wood...not going to help with a giant scratch. Use simple green to clean metal parts beneath playfield, I would keep it away from any playfield surface, watered down or not.

#10 6 years ago

Thumbs down from Wickerman2 for stating that wax will do little to cover or fill scratches? Really?

Trust me, it won't.

#11 6 years ago

do you guys use any machine polishers? If so any recommendations?

-1
#12 6 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Thumbs down from Wickerman2 for stating that wax will do little to cover or fill scratches? Really?

Thumbs down for giving a semi-dickish unhelpful response to someone new to pinball ownership...guy is looking for some practical, detailed info...not snark.

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Thumbs down for giving a semi-dickish unhelpful response to someone new to pinball ownership...guy is looking for some practical, detailed info...not snark.

What the hell are you talking about? Sensitive much?

#14 6 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

What the hell are you talking about? Sensitive much?

I obviously misinterpreted your response...I guess?? Sorry. Maybe we should do away with the thumbs down, seems to upset people. I could care less if someone puts a thumbs down on my posts...no worries.

Back to the topic, guy wanted to know about Novus and Simple Green and cleaning and waxing...I gave him a response on that.

#15 6 years ago

Gave you a thumbs up. Happy now?

#16 6 years ago

I used Meguir's Caranuba paste wax but it felt a little gritty to the touch? http://www.meguiars.com/en/automotive/products/g7014j-gold-class%E2%84%A2-carnauba-plus-paste-wax/

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from TBatti:

but it felt a little gritty to the touch?

Same stuff I use, didn't notice any grit feel. I do a couple coats usually as well. There are lots of threads on the wax choice...people have all sorts of favorites.

#18 6 years ago

For modern, clear coated pins, I stick to Novus 1 (non abrasive) as much as possible for cleaning. I only break into Novus 2 for the really stubborn parts because its abrasive and will wear into your clear/paint etc, and then I go back over the area with Novus 1 to clean off any residue.

When the playfield is clean I try to stick to the 100% Carnauba for waxing. I've found that wax will maybe smooth out minor scratches but don't expect it to be a substitute for anything that needs repair.

You can probably find loads of info on cleaning and waxing on this site if you do a search.

#19 6 years ago

So if somebody had a NIB pin for home use only...What is the recommendation for gentle cleaning (use what and how often) and should wax be put on the playfield while it's still pristine?

#20 6 years ago

A wipe with Novus 1 will usually do it--I spray it on a soft cloth, not on playfield and then make sure you wipe it all off...but I don't yet own a NIB so maybe there's some manufacture specific product that I'm not aware of...

#21 6 years ago
Quoted from investingdad:

So if somebody had a NIB pin for home use only...What is the recommendation for gentle cleaning (use what and how often) and should wax be put on the playfield while it's still pristine?

Lots of people use Novus 1 for gentle cleaning, but that product is actually designed for plastic. Not saying that it won't work, but I prefer to use something that was specifically formulated for the job (cleaning a clear coated surface).

For regular cleaning without worry about the cleaner removing your wax, I recommend using Optimum Opti-clean. You can't over use it, and it can actually help maintain your wax with it's polymers. I use it every time I have the glass off (for whatever reason).

You can buy it concentrated. Mix with distilled water. It will clean plastics as well.

http://www.autogeek.net/optimum-opti-clean-cleaner.html

And yes, you can apply wax to a brand new pin.

#22 6 years ago

IIRC, vid recommends Simple Green then Carnauba wax, which is why I use it with success.

But I'd confirm with vid.

#23 6 years ago

I don't even think about simple green or alcohol unless I am dealing with black ball swirls in the paint. pretty sure that is what was covered in the playfield restoration thread by vid.

#24 6 years ago

I like Millwax, it leaves a nice clean surface and a shine. I tried pure carnuba and it leaves wax boogers that just piss me off too much. The key to using Millwax is to shake the bottle well, apply a thin amount over surface, let it dry, then polish it with an old tshirt or shammy.

#25 6 years ago

I think the *majority* of folks shy away from using Millwax, mostly because it is more chemicals than wax, and these chemicals are possibly detrimental to many late model clearcoats.

I think the *majority* of folks here would recommend Novus for cleaning followed by a hard paste wax.

Personally, I think you can overdo it with heavy cleaning and waxing too frequently and it is probably overkill in many cases. On the far other end of the spectrum is not cleaning at all, which is how we end up with games brought in from the wild with playfields worn to the wood. I think we just get really hung up on the details, and the personal preferences, in these recurring cleaning threads.

#26 6 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

IIRC, vid recommends Simple Green then Carnauba wax, which is why I use it with success.
But I'd confirm with vid.

What is Vid full name? I'm looking for his thread.

BTW the tech here in town has been using diluted simple green for years and a caranuba wax and I saw his machines. the PF looked pristine on 10,000 game played pin. But it sounds like Novus 1 and simple green are the go to.

#28 6 years ago
Quoted from TBatti:

BTW the tech here in town has been using diluted simple green for years and a caranuba wax and I saw his machines. the PF looked pristine on 10,000 game played pin. But it sounds like Novus 1 and simple green are the go to.

Whatever you choose, the goal is not to do any harm...you might keep at that 1 spot that's bugging you and then all the sudden you are through the topcoat and have made it worse.

#29 6 years ago
Quoted from TBatti:

using diluted simple green for years and a caranuba wax and I saw his machines. the PF looked pristine on 10,000 game played pin.

simple green isn't bad at all, you just have to be careful with it. don't overuse it, and don't let it sit on the playfield for hours. I think most choose the Novus route because the risks are not there like alcohol and simple green.

#30 6 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

IIRC, vid recommends Simple Green then Carnauba wax, which is why I use it with success.
But I'd confirm with vid.

Yes.

But.....

Different eras of pins need different cleaning regimens.

On older games (Classic Bally, Classic Stern, Sys3-11) don't use any water based cleaners (NO: Simple Green, Windex, Orange Power, Alcohol, Novus1...). The old finish on those games will microscopically soak up the cleaner under the paint and plank the wood a few days latter. Old games, clean sparingly with Naphtha.

Newer games with a sold clearcoat (no planking, no wear) can be cleaned with sparingly with Simple Green or if in doubt about the integrity of the clear, just use Naphtha.

Then wax with paste Carnuba wax (like Blitz).

DO NOT USE:

Cleaner Wax

Liquid Wax

Wildcat

Millwax

Pledge

Silicone Wax

#31 6 years ago

FWIW, Bally manuals say "never use water in large quantities" ...note the term "large". There is no reason that you can't wipe down a playfield with a slightly damp rag...just don't get crazy with a sopping wet towel.
They also recommend Wildcat #125.

#32 6 years ago

I think Novus2 is more abrasive that Millwax but both are very similar. Anyway here is an interesting video on youtube by a guy who I swear sounds like he sells IKEA furniture showing how he cleans a playfield. Look to around the 8 min mark to see what he says about Novus2 vs Millwax.

#33 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Yes.
But.....
Different eras of pins need different cleaning regimens.
On older games (Classic Bally, Classic Stern, Sys3-11) don't use any water based cleaners (NO: Simple Green, Windex, Orange Power, Alcohol, Novus1...). The old finish on those games will microscopically soak up the cleaner under the paint and plank the wood a few days latter. Old games, clean sparingly with Naphtha.
Newer games with a sold clearcoat (no planking, no wear) can be cleaned with sparingly with Simple Green or if in doubt about the integrity of the clear, just use Naphtha.
Then wax with paste Carnuba wax (like Blitz).
DO NOT USE:
Cleaner Wax
Liquid Wax
Wildcat
Millwax
Pledge
Silicone Wax

What is considered OLD? Would ST TNG or WW be considered old?

#34 6 years ago
Quoted from TBatti:

WW be considered old?

WW is a system 11

#35 6 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

FWIW, Bally manuals say "never use water in large quantities"

We were taught in Bally school that the games should last 3 years.

Now that they are 40 years old, the Bally Tuff-Coat has almost always been compromised.

If any wood fibers get moist, they will expand and plank.

#36 6 years ago

Would not fall in the "old" technically...I think.

#37 6 years ago
Quoted from TBatti:

What is considered OLD? Would ST TNG or WW be considered old?

WW is old.

STTNG if the playfield is showing no wear or planking, then a damp wiping with Simple Green is OK.

#38 6 years ago

Good time to thanks to everyone on this site, thanks. Once I get some experience I'll definitely be helping other Pin bros the same.

#39 6 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

FWIW, Bally manuals say "never use water in large quantities" ...note the term "large". There is no reason that you can't wipe down a playfield with a slightly damp rag...just don't get crazy with a sopping wet towel.
They also recommend Wildcat #125.

Stern recommends Novus for waxing and it's not even a wax, I don't know an old manual is the most trustworthy maintenance guide.

#40 6 years ago

Naptha is a miracle worker. Used to use Novus 2 (and still do sometimes, because it shines up pretty nice) for everything, but for any dirt - especially stubborn - Naptha. Then Blitz baby.

Novus almost seems to make the issues on non painted (clearcoated) wood (like shooter lanes) worse. Naptha cleans that shit up. I almost shit when I saw what Novus 2 did to my Shire that I was trying to make pretty. Ended up sanding and clearcoating to make right. Wish I'd known about the power of naptha then.

#41 6 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Naptha is a miracle worker.

I think people have trouble getting past using gasoline/lighter fluid in their homes--I'm sure the chemicals in all the other things are just as bad but you don't notice them as much.

#42 6 years ago

I read what Naptha is. Dear lord I'd be scared to put that on my PF. You'd think it would eat away the PF.

#43 6 years ago

I use Naptha prior to touching up a playfield with paints. It cleans and removes all previous wax so the paints adhere better.

For playfield cleaning; I've had no luck with Simple Green (maybe the newest formula is weak). I tried not to use Mill Wax based on some threads, but it cleans great. Mill Wax cleans really well. It will turn a white cloth black from all the dirt and grime it removes.

I then give 2 coats of Maguire Carnuba wax. Letting last coat dry over night.

#44 6 years ago
Quoted from dawasa:

Letting last coat dry over night.

Why?

#45 6 years ago

so the wax hardens the best it will before buffing to a gloss. Shouldn't take that long really.. but letting it dry will leave more of the wax behind.. which is what you are using the wax for in the first place.

#46 6 years ago

Naphtha is freaking awesome n I love it. It removes any and all grime

#47 6 years ago

Why shouldn't you use liquid wax?

#48 6 years ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Why shouldn't you use liquid wax?

Because the way they made it a liquid wax was by adding solvents and addatives you don't need on your game

#49 6 years ago

Vid, what do you recommend for cleaning Mylar on sys11 games? I know some people say pull it, but it still looks good and doing its job of protecting the playfield

#50 6 years ago

You can polish Mylar, but you need a high speed buffer.

Hand buffing won't cut it.

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